q.beyond Aktie

Welcome to the Q1 Earnings Call 2026 of q.beyond AG. I would like to welcome the company's CEO, Thies Rixen; and CFO, Nora Wolters, who will guide us through the presentation in a moment, followed by a Q&A session via audio line and chat. And with that, I hand over to you, Mr. Rixen.

Yes. Thank you, Mara. Hello, everybody. Nora and myself, we'd like to present you the Q1 figures. And before I hand over to Nora, I'd like to give you a little update about the strategy we announced in March, where we are. Little recap. We built this strategy on the foundation of what we already have. So this is very important to say. So we will keep our current model, consult to operate, with consulting and managed service. And build on that, let's say, 3 elements on top.

One is industry focus. So we like to have more vertical expertise in several industries. We play 2 macro trends. One is in health care. There, we will look at the 2,000 hospitals in the region of Germany, Austria and Switzerland. And in the energy sector, the 700 local energy providers, Stadtwerke in Germany. So health care, we're all getting older, so we have to transform our health care system. And in energy, the macro trend is everything gets electrified and we need more energy for that.

And also on top of that for the AI system which is building up. And there, we like to have a -- there we have to like step in the door, let's say, or foot in the door, not a step, and we will keep our other industry -- big industries like logistics or retail. So this is number one. So we will put on top of technology, we will put industry expertise. Therefore, we will have more business and more margin.

On top of that is AI. AI is like internet, like cloud, the next -- or mobile, the next big tech revolution. It's already there. It's building up. And our job will be, as we do it right now with other technologies like SAP, we will build agents and we will run agents for our customers in managed service. And we see it right now, it's getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And therefore, this, for us, is a new portfolio.

And internationalization is we will roll out our business model in the countries we have already, like the Baltics and Spain and maybe some others. Let's see what happens. So this is our strategy with the -- where we drive further what we have already achieved in the last 3 years.

So where we are right now, we tried to put some flesh on the bone, as you see here. For industry focus, we prolonged a lot of contracts. One was the major contract with Rohlig for 5 years with over EUR 100 million in TCV in the 2 major industries we have right now. And we are in serious talks, that I can say, in the health care sector to form a joint venture in that space. So this is developing, and we see it on both, let's say, not segments, but in both areas. So we have a track record in the already existing industries, and we are close to do the first, at least for us, major step in the health care sector.

AI orchestration, as I said, we are going to build agents for our clients and run the agents. There we have -- in Q4 and Q1, we have acquired plus 10 customers for that. Our wins in the first quarter was up to 7%, also with the help of the 10 new clients. And we launched by ourselves right now 30 agents, 30 AI major agents for q.beyond to drive internal efficiency. It's not only a game for us that we do it for our clients. It's also important that we, let's say, be more efficient every year in using AI.

So the internationalization that we already discussed with you, so we are rolling out go-to-market activities in the Baltics and Spain. And we decided Q4 to start a third nearshore center in Cluj, Romania because of SAP expertise, huge SAP expertise in this area or in this country. And also, we will transfer our, let's say, service desk activities to Romania combined with AI to be better in that space also. So this is it for the strategy. We are quite, I would say, quite on track from our point of view in the first quarter. I'd like to speed it up for the upcoming -- for the rest of the year. So with that, I hand over to you, Nora.

Thank you, Thies. Welcome from my side too. Q1 started as expected. Let me share a fitting metaphor. q.beyond's direction is like flying in an airplane with a clear flight plan and a permanent check of navigation data, and we adjust accordingly. This is our Strategy 2028, which follows on from our very successful Strategy 2025. For Q1, this means a strong focus on portfolio and investment in AI expertise. 2025 was a year of quality adjustment, but our resilient and structurally stabilized business model with nearly 70% recurring revenue is the basis for a successful Strategy 2028. An impressive sales funnel of more than EUR 200 million will lead to rising revenues in the next quarters, especially in H2. Additionally, we gained more than 7% order entry than in Q1.

We report traditionally 2 segments: consulting and managed services. Starting with consulting. It's growing against the market trends. We earned more than 30% gross profit, plus 3% margin and plus 3% revenue. This is a result of a clear improvement utilization and a higher demand for AI consulting and S/4HANA transition. The margin shows clearly that the focus on portfolio and capacity control is working. The second segment, managed services, earns an attractive margin, but it's due to lower investment. There are 2 effects. The first, the cyclical new business 2025. And second, the investment in our AI expertise. We are not focused on cost cutting at any cost, but rather on ramping up our pipeline.

Let's have a short look at our P&L. The revenue for Q1 was EUR 42.8 million, EBITDA EUR 1.5 million, a temporarily negative consolidated net income which is expected for year to become positive. As expected, all results are impacted by expenses related to AI expertise and internationalization, as Thies said before. In other words, we made upfront investment for scaling. We are talking about investment cycle visibility here, not structural margin erosion.

Our net liquidity is rising, plus EUR 0.6 million in Q1 and a net liquidity of EUR 42.6 million. Gaining liquidity is good, but we want more profitability. We invest a lot of time in new possible acquisition targets. Unfortunately, one failed in Q1. And at the moment, we have promising talks, so maybe there will be more information in the next months. Our company is debt-free, and the net liquidity that corresponds to EUR 1.71 each share shows a high potential.

2026 brought and brings several milestones for q.beyond. The EGM and the capital reduction finally cleaned up our balance sheet, especially the accumulated deficit. As the aimed result, q.beyond would be able to share to -- sorry, q.beyond would be able to have share buybacks or pay dividends without endangering the financial stability. So we are well prepared to implement the Strategy 2028.

Our most important message today: we confirm the guidance for 2026 based on our Strategy 2028. It's a very clear signal that the execution of our strategy and pipeline compensates the macroeconomic pressure we suffer at the moment. We expect revenues between EUR 182 million to EUR 190 million and EBITDA between EUR 10 million and EUR 16 million and a positive free cash flow. Additionally, a positive consolidated net income. We combine investments for growth and the expectation that the pipeline and financial results provide the foundation for shareholders will be very successful if it's finally decided legally. So this is the end for the financials for today in this presentation, and I hand over again to Thies.

Yes. Thank you, Nora. So a little outlook, '26, '28. We mentioned already. Q1 was 7% up concerning total contract value or the bookings. So we like to keep this momentum. We have a sales funnel, so we have already EUR 40 million roughly in the books end of April or beginning of May, and have additionally a sales funnel of EUR 200 million. So we are assuming that the next quarter will be higher in revenue and we get a book-to-bill over 1 this year, which was the case last year and will be the case also next -- this year, therefore we have an indicator for '27.

Concerning the strategy, we said the aim is concerning revenues, EUR 250 million approximately, with an EBITDA margin of 10%. How do we reach that? Three elements. One is organic growth, 5%. Then M&A strategy, roughly EUR 20 million revenue and the AI orchestration should be at least EUR 20 million end of '28 so that we are -- at least when we look at our strategic approach and plan, that we have a high visibility of the numbers. And the funnel will get us -- the high funnel will get us to a growth this year.

Having said that, in summary, what we'd like to achieve. Industry focus will give us business and higher margin. AI orchestration. With that, we will be relevant for our -- we are relevant, we will be relevant and we'll have a new portfolio and new business and internationalization, let's say, further growth opportunities European-wide, and this is also what the customers from us are expecting. Yes, thank you very much for your time, and we're happy to answer your questions and comments -- and get your comments. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] We have already received risen hands by Mr. Sennewald.

Can you hear me now?

Yes.

I was just wondering, looking at the guidance, especially on the bottom line, which continues to be EUR 10 million to EUR 16 million. What needs to happen for you to reach the upper end of this range? Because honestly, I'm looking at the Q1 now and also the environment, I had a hard time seeing you at EUR 15-plus million EBITDA this year.

So the range we picked as -- we like to have a range where we are, let's say, prepared for whatever will happen with the German or European economy. So and at the lower end, I think we are well defended. We are well defended with our current business model. And at the higher end, everything must work out. So there are especially -- so for instance, when we look at clients which have -- where we get, let's say, as an example, where we get kickbacks from the vendors, where we have special deals. So this will be -- this will help us to get the higher end. So there are certain elements in it, but everything must work out to get the EUR 16 million.

Okay, I understand. Good to hear that you feel well protected on the lower end. In the last calls, you mentioned that you already have, like, I think it was around 300 agents in place, which most of them use this internally. Already have some leads, perhaps some monetization. How is this going so far?

I think the low-hanging fruits have been harvested. So all, what, concerning reporting, so most of the agents -- so low-hanging fruits had been harvested. Most of the agents are in managed service and in central for also in, let's say, in the shared service part for reporting, patching and process automation. So low-hanging fruits have been identified, have been harvested. Now we tackle, let's say, the more complex, complicated agents. So this is a track right now, but it's evolving all over the company. I think everyone, or most of the people, I must say, have at least understand the potential. And now it's -- if we all know that if an agent -- if we build an agent, they have to run the governance, they have this -- the agent have to be compliant and so on, so on, so on. So it's getting a little bit more complicated, but potential is still there.

Okay, understood. And maybe -- you mentioned M&A that you had like a failed deal, you said, in the first quarter. What's your -- I mean how confident can we be that you will add some inorganic growth throughout the year? And can you maybe remind us of maybe the scope of that?

Yes, you should -- you could be very confident. This is our strategic plan, so we will execute on this. The one who failed, it's -- as leaders, you have to say often more no than yes. So for example, the price is not right, then we said no. So therefore, we didn't pick it. Though the add-on, it depends a little bit how big the targets are in terms of revenue. I would not allow myself to give an answer right now, but there will be an impact. And the most important thing is not, let's say, the number right now, so the potential for the future.

So as I'd like to explain, we are targeting for health care, we are targeting the 2,000 hospitals in Germany, Switzerland and Austria because most of them, they're behaving like a midsized company, like the German Mittelstand. Yes, they are public owned, in some cases, but they still behave like that, and it's -- the same is true for the 700 Stadtwerke in Germany at least. So this is the potential we see in the next years, also the -- plus the transformation, let's say, pressure they have. And this is much more important than the figures right now.

Okay, but health care is clearly crystallizing as the priority...

Yes.

We have another risen hand by Mr. Kai Kindermann.

Can you hear me, Thies, okay?

Yes, we hear you.

I heard a weird sound, but okay. First, what caused the rise in consulting profit? Maybe you can expand a little bit on this further, especially compared to the third quarter last year where you had the same level of revenue. And then my second question would be on what amount of investment and expenses in AI are you expecting in the coming quarters?

We didn't get the first question. Can you repeat it, please?

Yes. If you could expand further on the rise in consulting profit you had in this quarter, especially in comparison to the third quarter in the last year where you had the same level of revenue but lower gross profit.

Yes. For consulting, it always depends on the mixture -- on the revenue mixture we are showing. I don't have the Q3 figures in my head, but I would assume there are -- there's revenue in it, which is not so profitable as in Q1. So for example, if you have license in it or, let's say, onetimers, which are not so profitable. And what I can say for Q1, it's real consumption which we have driven. So this leads us -- and this is what we like to see, this leads us to the higher margin. So there's a structural effect in it when you compare the Q3 to the Q1 figures.

And concerning AI investments, we believe the majority is done. What we are now figuring out is which models to use. For example, we have started with Microsoft Copilot. This works out for some part of the company. Anthropic is now on top of it, so Claude. And now we have both. Maybe we have a third one. And so I think the most -- the major part is done, and now it's about optimization of the several systems. And then do it -- and do we need to provide every employee with an AI tool? Or do we provide our employees with agents they can use. So we will optimize that. So my answer would be majority is done.

We have another question by Mr. Fredrik Nilsson.

Can you hear me?

Yes.

I was just wondering why you choose to add a new nearshore hub in Romania rather than expanding in Spain or Latvia, for example.

Two reasons. One is language, at least for the 2 reasons. One, the first reason is language. We have a lot of clients, and I showed you the prolongation we did in Q4 last year, Q1 this year, so the contract prolongation. And there are several others to come which have a service desk element in it, service desk portfolio. And we got a lot of pressure from our clients, also cost-wise. So we were looking for an answer to reduce the cost. One is, for sure, human resource. The other one is AI. The midsize company are not ready to use full AI-powered service desk, so we will build up one half-half, one with Romanians -- German-speaking Romanian resources plus AI, and therefore we cover the service desk portfolio. This is reason number one.

And reason number two is that we -- Nora mentioned it, that we are very successful in the SAP business right now. Our assumption is that this will be at least midterm to long term. So we see that we need to provide our customers with services, application management services where we run the applications for them. But we see also the cost pressure, also when the customers are globally -- the setup is globally or European-wide, and you find in Romania they have a good SAP-skilled workforce. And these were the main 2 reasons. To be honest, it took us some discussions because of complexity. You mentioned it, the third one. But now we are convinced that this is the right answer for this kind of 2 portfolios. So service desk and SAP application management.

I see. Great. Could you perhaps give us some approximate estimation of the costs related to international expansion and AI, as you mentioned, is holding back the earnings in the quarter?

It's a figure, what is it, several million per quarter. It was in Q3, Q4 and Q1. So let's say between EUR 2 million to EUR 3 million, more or less.

Okay. Great. And just lastly, you mentioned also discussions about the joint venture in health care. I mean what size are we talking about then? Is it a greenfield or is it you going into something that's already up and running with quite some revenue? Or could you...

This will be a company which is up and running, which is very, very well positioned, let's say, in the health care segments for hospitals. And therefore, we would like to form a joint venture. So we will take over the majority of the shares, let's say, 51% and then we will -- as we did for Logineer, I'm not quite sure if you know this case. So we have built a joint venture 5 years ago and the same setup 51% is with q.beyond, and then we drive with the other partner the business forward. And this we like to do in health care and this we like to do in energy. Revenue is always around for the beginning, let's say, EUR 10 million to EUR 20 million for the targets. And then we like to develop -- we develop this revenue with the joint venture partner further.

Well, there are no more risen hands or further questions in our chat box. So with this, I would say we come to the end of today's earnings call. And I would like to thank you very much for your interest in q.beyond AG.

A big thank you also to you, Mr. Rixen and Mrs. Wolters, for your presentation and your time. Should you have any further questions at a later date, please feel free to contact Investor Relations. I wish you all a successful day. Thank you, and bye-bye.

Thank you.

Bye.

Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and a warm welcome to today's call of the q.beyond AG following the presentation of Strategy for 2028. We are very pleased to welcome the CEO, Thies Rixen; and the CFO, Nora Wolters, who will guide us through the presentation and the results in a moment. After the presentation, we will move on to a Q&A session in which you will be able to ask your questions via chat and audio line.

And with that, I would like to hand over to you, Mr. Rixen.

Yes. Thank you, Mara. Hello, everybody. Thank you for joining the call. Nora and myself, we will present you the Strategy '28. As you know, we both joined the Board '23, then we executed '23, '24, '25, the Strategy '25. And we developed in the meantime, the Strategy '28, which we like to present today.

Nora will start with track record of '25, so what we delivered. Nora?

Thank you, Thies. A warm welcome from my side. I would like to start with a quote of Antoine de Saint-Exupery, "A goal without a plan is just a wish." 3 years ago, as Thies already mentioned, we started with the Strategy 2025. And today, we are taking stock. Following this, in the follow-up meeting, you will see the new strategy. But let's look back for the last past 3 years.

The Strategy 2025 based on 3 strategic pillars: The focused business model, the go-to-market approach and the efficiency program, One q.beyond. If you look at these pillars, all were seen as visible successes in our financial reports this year. We doubled the EBITDA margin up to 7% in the current financial statement. This is the third year that we have a positive free cash flow. And one of our strongest goals, the positive consolidated net income, was reached this year.

If you look on the second pillar, the strategic go-to-market, we established the direct and the indirect channels with about 85% revenue in the direct channel and 15% in the indirect channel. And this is the basis for our go-to-market in the Baltic states and Spain that we already started this year.

The third pillar, the efficiency program, One q.beyond. When we started together as a Board team, we had to reduce complexity, q.beyond made a lot of acquisitions in the last years until 2025. So we integrated them, reduced complexity. And additionally, we raised up the international subsidiaries. Now we have nearly 20% in the near and offshoring subsidiaries, starting from 3% at the end of 2022. As you remember, 5% nearshore ratio means 2% of staff cost. So we did a great way in the last 3 years. Or to say it in other words, we promised and we delivered.

Our main goal in the last 3 years in the Strategy 2025 was profit over growth. And I'm very proud to say we reached it. If you look on the guidance for 2025, you see that the guidance was reached, especially, we are very proud for the positive consolidated net income. The last year was a very challenging year, especially the United States and the politics of Donald Trump and the tariffs are influencing the markets, especially the small- and medium-sized companies in Germany that have a very strong export orientation.

So as you see, we are a very reliable partner. Clear goals with a reliable plan. And we have demonstrated this in the Strategy 2025. And I would like to say implementation is our commitment. So please look at the details for the new strategy that Thies will now present to you.

And with this, I would like to hand over to you, Thies.

Thank you very much, Nora. Nora will join later during the Q&A session. And I'd like to present you now 3 things. One is who we are and why we win. Then I will give you -- I'd like to present the details of the Strategy '28 and also the financial outlook, including the guidance.

So who we are and why we win? Most of you know that -- know us. So we are one of the leading IT service players in the German mid-market and likely to be in the European mid-market. So we are well positioned, left-hand side of the slide. We -- as you know, so we have 5 core industries, 70% of the revenues is there. We have our own data center. We are BSI- or C5-certified, so we can play the sovereign game. We are -- we have a team of 1,000 tech experts. Nora mentioned already the international footprint, 14 locations in Germany, more or less headquarters in -- or the heart is in Hamburg and all over the place. And then we have Baltics, Iberica (sic) [ Iberia ] and the U.S.

We are very proud of our customer relationships. So we have 100 direct customers and over 1,000 indirect customers, which we are -- this is our indirect channel. So there's huge potential for us developing these customers, and you see the revenue split 85% to 15%. When we approach customers, we always try to do the Consult-to-Operate approach. So we start with consultancy project-based business and like to convert it to recurring, to managed service business. We have a portfolio, strong tech portfolio, which covers all the needed topics of the German and European mid-market. And you see on the bottom, you see that we have a reliable customer base which stays long with us, contract duration over 4 years, high satisfaction, and we are more and more able to cross-sell. Why I am telling you this? Because it gets more and more important in the AI space.

With whom we play? So we are well positioned, and you see here with whom we play. This is important to understand, especially for the guys who don't know us. So we are playing with Bechtle, with DATAGROUP, with Allgeier, All for One, Adesso, for example, also Arvato, we are playing not so much or competing not so much with Deutsche Telekom or Accenture. Why is that? Because they are not so much or so deep in the German market. So what we do is we combine our IT portfolio, tech portfolio with industry knowledge. We will do it more and more in our Strategy '28, and we are playing very strongly our Consult-to-Operate approach.

The market in Germany is big but there are several, let's say, challenges. So when we look at the market, we have 70,000 companies with a turnover above EUR 10 million. So this is our addressable market, so to say, with EUR 50 billion IT services. And when we look at the challenges, there are many of them new to it. It's cost pressure, not only because of competition because of rising hardware prices. So we are the one who helping the mid-market to overcome the challenges. And this we do because we are able to help them in their tech challenges and also more and more in their industry challenges. So we think more of business in both business models than in tech. And therefore, the Consult-to-Operate approach is getting more and more important.

And with that, we like to simplify and secure the mission-critical IT of our customers. So how do we do that? We're combining our IT portfolio, as I mentioned, with the industry expertise, especially in retail and logistics, we are very strong. We like to enhance it. I will come to that later. And then we have this Consult-to-Operate approach. So everyone in the company is trained on this approach and is following the process so that we help the customer with consultancy and industry expertise and then we transform it to managed service recurring revenue.

We, let's say, developed 2 examples to show you what we do so it gets more tangible. So one is Rohlig. It's one of the biggest customers. We just prolonged the contract for 5 years till '31. So there you see consult, integrate, operate. So this is what we do. So we started 5 years ago, let's say -- or let's say, 5 years ago, we started with consultancy, then we integrated several technologies for them. For example, SAP, we implemented cybersecurity, and with SAP we implemented the transport management system, which is very important for the logistic value chain, so to say, and we are operating it worldwide for 36 countries. And this is what we mean by consulting to operate. We start with consultancy. We implement tech projects. We know the processes. Otherwise, we cannot implement and adapt the transport management system CargoWise and then we run it and develop it even further. So when Rohlig, for example, is entering a new country, a new market, then we just roll out of the box all the solutions we have developed with them.

Same is for Dr. Beckmann, known at least as a worldwide champion in, let's say, washing products or hygiene products, Fleckensalz in Germany. So there, we started with the IT road map, IT strategy. We implemented SAP. We did the S/4HANA project. Microsoft, we rolled out several Microsoft services and now we are in the engagement to run the whole tech suite with several millions. And of this kind of clients, we have several, and this we doing more and more and more to have this Consult-to-Operate approach.

So now the Strategy '28, scaling growth and margins. It's -- the ingredients are threefold. Here, you see them. The first one is more Industry Focused, second one is AI Orchestration and the third one is Internationalization. And I'd like to walk you through each of the pillars. So I start, I will give you an overview and then give you more details what we mean by that.

So Industry Focus is, as I told you, we are strong. So we have industry knowledge in every of the 5 industries. We are very strong in retail and logistics, and we like to enhance it to new industries, especially for energy and health care. There we are playing the macro trends, and why we are doing that is driving margin. We see it in retail and logistics. The -- let's say, the EBITDA margin, these 2 segments is above 10%, and we see a great possibility or likelihood that we have it also for several other industries.

AI Orchestration will be, for us, a new portfolio. So what we are doing right now, we are building agents for our clients and we see more and more agents coming up as we all see and someone at the end of the day has to orchestrate them to manage them. And there, we see our sweet spot. For us, it's nothing more than managed service. So if we manage applications, for example, it's more or less the same from the method we are doing in AI Orchestration. This is driving top line, so it's a growth segment. And when we use it internally, it will drive efficiency.

So then we -- so if we have industry focus, more industry focus, more industry expertise, we combine it with AI Orchestration. By the way, when you like to have vertical industry-specific AI agents, you need this kind of industry expertise, otherwise you can't build them. So it's like a prerequisite to have industry expertise to build these industry-specific AI agents. And then we will roll it out. So for example, for Germany, then for Spain, I will come to that later. Spain is half the size of Germany, and third priority of the Baltic states.

So this as an overview. I will start with the industry focus. So what we are doing there, please keep in mind that we have as a blueprint, we have our joint venture, logineer. So with that, we are serving Rohlig, and we like to do the same in the 2 industries. So here, see left-hand side, our current industry focus. I just put the numbers to retail and logistics. So we are doing like EUR 50 million in retail. So Dr. Beckmann is, for example, in retail, Tchibo and Fressnapf and others also. Logistics is EUR 25 million, and manufacturing is strong, it's around EUR 40 million, but we -- at least in Germany, we know that manufacturing is under pressure. And then we have, for sure, banking and insurance and the public sector is also -- has also kind of size of EUR 10 million, but we will focus on health care and energy playing these 2 macro trends or one is aging population for health care. And the other one is, let's say, the decentralization of energy production plus the demand of the energy demand of AI and all the other electro products which are now coming up.

So how do we do that? And therefore, it's important that whether you have this kind of experience since 5 years with logineer and Rohlig. We'll do it mainly by M&A. So we are aiming for a joint venture where we own like, let's say, at least 51%, and the focus will be health care and energy. As I said, the approach is that we find companies where we can play this Consult-to-Operate approach, that we have the chance to get managed service recurring revenues in the industries. And selection will be very, very KPIs, strict KPIs-based selection. You know that some of -- most of you know that we have bought several companies, let's say, 5 years ago. We not bought anything in '23, '24 and '25. So we learned a lot and all the learnings we will put into the new M&A targets. And the fourth one is the funding. We have a financial solid base with no debt and net liquidity and like to spend it for M&A, for share buyback and for dividends.

So the AI Orchestration is for us, it's a logic -- the logic way, and let's say with 2 arguments. One is if we have enough industry knowledge, then it's easier for us to play the AI game, plus when we orchestrate them, when we manage them, it's in our DNA, we know how to do it. So the market is big enough from our point of view. So we analyze the market as you see left-hand side, so EUR 1.6 billion, it's big enough. The figures are in 4 years. But it's big enough, it will evolve. And when you see, in the middle, the regulatory environment and market drivers is the same as -- more or less the same, as I mentioned before. There's a lot of pressure coming from competition to the mid-market. There's a lot of regulatory pressure, let's say, the geopolitical threats or uncertainty is growing. And they're all looking for a way to build agents or all our clients are looking for a way to build agents to combine them and to run them. And for them, we will build, and this is our goal in sovereign and AI Orchestration service.

So why we can do that? Because we see we have 3 structural competitive advantages. The first is we are sovereign by design. We have been delivering sovereign cloud services for years and we know how to build them. In our private cloud, all what we do, it's all sovereign in a way. Not 100%, there is no 100%, but we know how to do it. The second argument is that we're part of the German Mittelstand or mid-market. We are -- as q.beyond, we are also a mid-market player. We know what is important. We know how they think. We know how they feel. We know what is -- how you can execute projects. And the third one is we know how to deliver and track record and delivering value, otherwise no one will stay with us for 10 years as I showed you in the beginning of the presentation. So no one will trust their data, their infrastructure, their processes in our hands if you're not able to deliver value. And these 3 advantages, we will also adapt for AI.

So what will we do and how do we will earn money? We will do 4 things. The first is, for sure, we will run the, let's say, the infrastructure, the data, the logic. This we can do in our own data center, but we can do it also on partner infrastructure like Deutsche Telekom or like STACKIT. We are focusing on the service part. We are not going to invest millions and millions in hardware. That's very important. So we will do that. Then we will build AI agents. So if the customer wants to have an AI agent, maybe an industry-specific AI agent, we will build them for them. So we have like built for ourselves, I will show you in a minute, 300 agents. We have built several for our clients right now. And this -- and this is the third element, we will combine with other agents. Let's say, third-party agents from SAP, from Microsoft, whoever. We will build them. And then the fourth element, we will orchestrate them. So we like to manage them so that the clients are working in the way they should do technically.

And then this second element is that the governance of the company so that they operate like they should do. And then there's, let's say, the compliance part, that everything is as it should be. And this will be the biggest part. This is the recurring part. And then we can also execute, and this is very important for us, the Consult-to-Operate approach, as I mentioned several times. So we have 4 times the chance to generate business. And how do we do that? We will lay in '26. We lay the foundation. We are already in it. '27, we will speed up and '28, we will scale. And we analyzed, let's say, the average revenue per customer, and this will be EUR 500,000 per customer per year. You see left-hand side what we do. So there will be project-based business in it as managed service business, and the main part will be managed service. And this we like to do not only in Germany, we like to roll it out to Europe and starting with Spain and Baltics.

Here's some more specifics in the foundation. We are in the mid -- as I said, we're in the middle of it. We started '25, so we have built several agents. We have a 7-figure pipeline with, let's say, 50 deals in it right now. So we are convinced that we get the first 20 clients this year with this revenue, as I just described, and then we'll do it more and more in the coming years, so '27, '28. We will build our own platform as a management platform. And on this platform, we will set up client after client. And then we will transform ourselves. We will keep the IT service provider business. We will enhance it with industry expertise, so getting more margin and value out of it. And then we will combine it with the AI portfolio as the sovereign AI orchestrator for the European mid-market, as I mentioned several times. This is, let's say, the heart of the Strategy '28.

Here, you see several agents we built for our clients, for ourselves. So we have already deployed 300 AI and automation agents for ourselves. And this is like in 4 weeks we are able to -- over agents, we are able to, let's say, to save the amount for 4 or 5 head counts. So this is the current trend. And having this in mind, you can imagine what this means for us, but also what does it mean for other clients where they can enhance their competitive situation.

So our focus is for sure in IT operation and security and also for customer service. We are doing a lot of things. We have built for human resources, recruiting agents. We are doing all the knowledge management for ourselves. Procurement is a big thing. It's also for procurement that you can save a lot of, let's say, license costs if you don't -- if you need not so much SAP any longer and especially for the governance with all the regulatory things, you can automate with AI very easily for us and also for our clients.

So the third element is the Internationalization. I covered several times. So we start with Germany for sure, then Spain is half. When you look at the IT service markets, it's half the size of Germany, different dynamics. They're growing much faster than we do. Third priority is Baltics. It's a smaller market, but still, it was EUR 2 billion some business to do and let's see which market we can enter also.

Our aim is to have, in the end of '28, 10% of our business outside Germany, and we are in the middle of rolling out our core portfolio. We will design our AI portfolio as a European portfolio. And important to mention is also that the nearshore quota, Nora mentioned 20%, we have already -- we will push to 40% and also to driving margin also with the nearshore quota. There is a, to be honest, there is a -- we have to manage or we have to balance the AI effects and the nearshore effects, but we're aware of it and we'll find a way to use both levers.

So this brings me to the financial outlook and value creation. So when we execute the Strategy '28, we like to have a company with EUR 250 million of revenues and at least a margin of 10%. And the components are, we like to grow the business by 5%. So once, which knows us, we told you or reported last year that we, let's say, optimize our sales. We have new guys on board, very experienced sales guys, which we know for quite a while. And with this approach, we like to grow the business again 5%. This will bring us to, let's say, in 3 years to EUR 210 million. So M&A strategy, let's say, another EUR 20 million, EUR 30 million of revenue with this joint venture approach. So very -- not so much cash needed. And then with the AI Orchestration, we like to have EUR 20 million to EUR 30 million of revenue in the end of '28. And this will bring us to EUR 250 million of revenue and at least the margin by 10%. The margin -- the main drivers will be AI, will be nearshore and then the additional business we get over M&A and AI.

So in a nutshell, what will we do? We will increase our customer value and our margin by combining what we have as IT portfolio with the industry expertise we like to get over M&A deals. Then we build a new portfolio which we call AI Orchestration where we will buy or build and combine the agents and we run it for our clients so that they have not the hassle to do it. And we are convinced, or we see out of the discussions, that they don't have the expertise for that. And then we will roll it out to Europe and position ourselves as the, let's say, sovereign IT service and AI orchestrator for the European mid-market.

This is our strategy in a nutshell. And then at the end, I'd like to give you some details about the guidance for this year. And I'd like to invite Nora again to the stage so that we can -- if there are some questions, we can answer them. So this is our guidance.

So in terms of revenue, and you know all the, let's say, all the trouble in the world right now so this is a cautious guidance, especially for revenues and also for EBITDA. So we like to say we have like EUR 182 million to EUR 190 million in revenues and then EBITDA EUR 10 million to EUR 17 million. For next year, for sure, Nora and myself, we will work hard to get the EUR 190 million and EUR 16 million -- sorry, the EUR 16 million EBITDA, but we are not quite sure what will happen in the world. So we took this spread to be more or less on the safe side.

And with that, I'd like to thank you for your attention, and we are happy to get your questions. Thank you very much.

[Operator Instructions] We have already received a question in our chat from [ Mr. Eckberg ]. Actually, 3 questions. I will read them out loud for you. First question is, when is the earliest possible date to start buybacks?

Yes, I will take this one. So the first possible date is mid of August. I think the 17th of August, we can start the buyback. And we are able to buy, let's say, 2.5 million shares back in the current -- with the current value. So this is the allowance of the shareholder meeting to take this question also. So 17th of August.

The second question is, will you consider selling the data center this year and return the money to shareholders, or will you keep it for now to build further value first?

Yes, value first. We will keep it for now to play the sovereign, let's say, not game, to be sovereign in a way. We have a lot of customer demands, let's say, if this converts into business. And so our current approach is to keep the data center and to push it to the maximum value and then sell it in the midterm.

And his last question is, and when do you roughly think you will achieve this acceptable level of transaction value to start looking on selling the data center?

As I said, we think midterm for now, so midterm 3 years. For now, we like to push it to a certain value or to the maximum value. Pipeline is good, demand is good. And then we can sell it only once, and we will do it in the right way and also to maximize the return for the shareholders.

We have also some risen hands. The first one from Mr. Kindermann.

My first question on the AI revenues you currently have, could you share how many customers you already have and what revenue you did with them in the last year?

We have like several dozens. It depends. So we have some in Microsoft. We have some for SAP. So they use this dual agent, and we have built up an own competency where we have like 10 customers. The revenue is small. It's under EUR 1 million last year, but we see it's growing. It's growing. As I said, we have now a funnel with 50 deals in it with a 7-figure pipeline and we see the growth rate is accelerating.

Okay. Maybe to specify with the AI Orchestration where you targeted 20 clients in 2026, how many are from these 20 do you already have?

Like 10. So we have to -- we will get for sure another 10 this year, and then we will build a platform for it. So this application -- we will build a platform for it to manage the AI agents. And I think there will be -- or what we see is there will be -- they're all building agents, all the clients are building agents where we will point in time as we have seen in the cloud business or in the application business where someone has to manage them. And therefore, we're building the platform so that we can, let's say, next year, '27 and '28, play these orchestration or use this platform to generate revenues in the AI agent orchestration.

Okay. And then the EUR 500,000 per year per customer would also be a target for 2027 or 2028?

Yes, this will be evolved. So what we see is that if you build an agent, it's like -- it depends a little bit, but it's like -- it's project business. So it's 100 to 200 per agent for now. This will, for sure, will be -- will go down the price. So we will be getting better and better and better. And then someone has to run the agent and has to integrate the agents, has to update the agents and has to control the agents. And this will be our job as we now do with application processes or with cloud services. This will be the focus.

We have more risen hands. The next one from Mr. Nilsson.

Can you hear me?

Yes.

Great. I want to continue on AI. So I mean, could you give us some example how your industry expertise have influenced the agents you have made for customers so far?

Yes. For example, if you like to automate the -- how the contracts in logistics, if you're in the logistics area, if you'd like to automate how the contracts are getting into the transport management system, then you need to understand how the contracts are coming and what is in the contracts and what is important for the logistic company. And if you don't have knowledge about the processes and all the specialties, then you're not able to build an agent who can automate this kind of process. So this is what we mean for it. You need to understand how they work and what are their challenges, the client challenges, otherwise you're not able to build an agent which is able to cover 100% of the process.

I see. Great. And also in general, what is the interest in AI agents from your customers at this point? Are they ready for this new technology and willing to invest in it?

What we see is the main focus is automation, is process automation because of the pressure -- of the pressure from competition, of the cost -- sorry, of the cost pressure. So they need to get rid of costs and to be -- to stay in the game. So -- and therefore, automation is everything. And therefore, you need this kind of industry expertise. Otherwise, you're building agents which can be copied by others, and then you're in this commodity price gamble, and we like to stay out of it and build agents with a heavy moat, which have a barrier to entry. But it's automation all over the place. And the technology, yes, it's complicated. So everyone can use AI, but only a few can really get value out of it. So we must make sure that we get the right talent or build the right talent and be better as our client. So that's more or less the prerequisite for it.

Okay, great. And regarding the internationalization focus, I mean, taking non-Germany sales from 3% to 10%, I mean, it won't have any huge effect on the group in total. So I mean, could you elaborate a bit why it's a wise move to go into the Baltics and Spain rather to focus 100% on Germany?

Germany has positive and not so positive macro environment right now, and we like to balance it. And for us, it's -- we started with the internationalization, though with the delivery hubs 4 years ago. Now we have 20%. For us, it's the same journey. And why we start with Spain and Baltics? Because we have great teams there. We know the market. We have a good network. This doesn't mean that we stop there. And therefore, I talked about priorities. So for sure, we will start with Spain because it's a very big market. And third priority is Baltics. So we are able to balance or to be not so independent from Germany and also to being -- to get used to roll out our portfolio to different countries.

Great. And one last question from me. I mean regarding the discussion of potentially selling the data centers, how will that affect your profitability? Can you reach 10% EBITDA also without those data centers?

Interesting question. I'm not thought about it. We are not thought about it. So for us in the '28 figures is a data center included and all the revenues we are generating is -- so this we can say. I cannot calculate it right now what is the impact without the data centers. In this EUR 250 million, 10% the data centers is included.

We have another question by [ Mr. Price ].

Do you already copy?

Yes, we hear you.

Cool. Thanks a lot for being allowed to ask a question. The numbers have been a bit odd because of the reverse split. And I might say that maybe next to inverse Cramer, reverse splits are the biggest red flags in the stock markets that there are. So basically buying back your own shares is the only viable reason that can be positive for shareholder value to do a reverse split. So basically that's good, but it needs to be communicated.

So when I took up you as an investment case, the shares were about EUR 0.76, and I had understood that you have cash of about EUR 0.43 per share net. Now the shares at EUR 3.50 are even cheaper than they were at the time adjusted for the split. And I understand of that, more than 50% of free cash to -- about the capitalization of the company are used to buy back shares, only 10%. I mean of course, the 6 months, you cannot do anything about it, but I think you would have to deliver on your promise saying that basically right now, buying back your own shares is the best investment that you are seeing in the market. And 10%, I think, are not what people like me had been looking for.

Okay. Yes. Okay. So this is -- so you're saying we have to buy -- you like to have -- we like to see a higher buyback?

Well, the case was you said that your shares are the best thing you can think of. And if you have more than 50% in that cash of the cap. Well, then -- well, there is something in between 10% and 50%, I guess.

Yes, sure. And I said also that we have an allowance to buy back 10% of Grundkapital, I cannot translate it. So this equals to 2.5 million shares, what we are allowed to do right now and no one hinders us to go back to the next Annual Shareholder Meeting and ask for a higher percentage.

And are you going to do that?

When the first program is going the right way, or the first tender is going in the right way, why not?

Good. That's good to hear. I mean basically, I really like your case of not being or staying too dependent on the U.S. players. I think that's a great game to play, and I also appreciate you keeping the data center. But you said that we promised we'd deliver it, and I think you have to do that.

One more technical question. I just asked my wife, who heads the [ team at ] Allianz Commercial about the offshoring and nearshoring quota of the guys providing the services to them. And she said that Infosys and the likes have more like 80% offshore quota. I understood you're right now at 20% nearshore and needs to accelerate that to 40% or want to accelerate that to 40%, but nearshore, not offshore. So it's just the difference in the type of customer. Of course, Allianz is not quite Mittelstand, that you can allow yourself to have such a high onshore quota compared to their consultants.

Yes. That's the main reason. We are providing German Mittelstand, so they're very reluctant in terms of offshore. So they like to keep the data in the EU, so you are too nearshore. And they're very -- the history of the German Mittelstand to allow players like us to deliver out of Germany is like 2 years -- 2 to 3 years now. So it's a different picture than talking to a global Fortune 500 player like Allianz. They have done it since 10, 15 years, and then they're pure globalized. It's a different -- I would say it's a different picture.

Okay. So you don't see much danger in that kind of competition from Infosys and the likes with your customers?

No, because of regulatory. The regulatory defends us, let's say. So this is the main defender, and it's a big entry barrier for them. So we don't see it.

Good to hear. Just to conclude, I think you should communicate that in a bit more progressive way, that you are still trying to buy back shares. I mean that the shares are now lower than before you communicated the buyback. Yes, you should do something about that maybe.

Okay. Thank you.

We have one more risen hand from the [ Meyer AG ].

I'm sorry, I should have changed my name maybe. This is Philipp. So my first question would be regarding the data center and the 2028 guidance. So maybe remind me, what is the current utilization of the data center? And what is the implied utilization within your 2028 guidance?

What is the first one? What is the value?

No, no, the utilization.

Utilization. So we -- I like to -- utilization is like what we have in kind of free capacity, free capacity, I will...

Exactly, exactly. That's what I mean.

Yes. Okay. Good. So we have like this -- we have sold last year 10%. So we left like 900 square meters. Last year, it was 1,000. Now we have 900. So this was very, let's say, not very, but this was -- for us, it was not what we expected last year in terms of selling. When we look at the funnel, we are able to -- we have good deals in the funnel. We, let's say, the disadvantage is that it takes some time to close the deals. So we are able to sell end of the year, let's say, 75% right now. So we have a funnel of selling 75% of the data center free capacity, and this is included in the, let's say, guidance, '28.

That you get it to 0, the vacancy basically.

Yes, sure.

Okay, understood. That's helpful. And maybe regarding this year's guidance, the lower end of the EBITDA guidance, is that pure macro stress implied there? Or is it also incremental AI and internationalization investments you have to take?

It's pure macro stress.

Okay. All right. And coming back to the nearshore target of 40%. Question one, when do you want to achieve that? Question B -- question two, what gross margin effect would that have?

The gross margin is.

Up to EUR 3 million, and we will reach it at the end of 2028.

Okay. That sounds promising. And another one on the AI revenues you want to make until '28. You said EUR 20 million to EUR 30 million would be your target. Can you give us a bit more color on the margin profile there?

It's hard to say because we don't know the market environment. But at least we're aiming for gross profit of 30%. And for sure, we're aiming for a margin which is higher in managed service right now. Let's see, let's see. But this is what we see right now. So at least it will be the margin of managed service. So we are aiming for 50% recurring revenue. And yes, that's -- we have to see how good we are.

Okay. And the EUR 500,000 you mentioned per client, this is recurring, right?

No, that's the average. This is the average revenue, the average revenue. So when you build agent and you run it, and this will convert over time. So first, you build it, so build the agent, then maybe it's 50-50. And over time, if you run more and more agents, it will be more and more recurring revenue. So this is a long-term play and we have seen the -- so we applied more or less the same logic we see in managed service. And there you see that you get -- when you do it in the right way, you get more and more revenue each year because you're running more and more process application infrastructure.

Okay. Understood. Yes, I'm interested to see where this is heading 1 year from now, maybe. Regarding M&A, you were really clear right now in this call that you're targeting health care and energy. You also mentioned, I think it was on the last call, that you wanted to buy some companies last year but you didn't get them. So how concrete is that right now? Will we see news flow in that regard this year?

You know that, Philipp, that's always hard to say because we have not signed it. So last year, we were very reluctant on price, not reluctant, very cautious on price. So this -- so we have some targets, especially in health care, which are very well developed. And we will -- so if we get to the table, then you will see news floor -- news flow, not floor, news flow. And this is for health care, for energy, we are, let's say, in the screening phase. So this is -- this will take longer. But health care is, let's say, hot.

Okay, but you will not -- just because you lost out on some deals because of price last year, you won't tend to overpay. You will remain [ analytic ] on that one.

Yes, yes. No, we will not change our strategy. We will keep it. We will keep it. And you know us a little bit right now. We will take care of the money.

We do have one more question in our chat. We have been to that question, it's regarding share buybacks, but I will anyways read it out loud for you. It's again by [ Mr. Eckberg ]. He writes, regarding share buybacks, what is the maximum premium price level you are allowed to buy on? Can you buy both over market and blocks at premium?

I think we are free in the way we buy back shares. It's on us. If you ask us right now, we are -- we think more about the tender. We think more about the tender, and there's no limit as far as I know, no price limit. But for sure, we will be very cautious on putting the right price in the tender. So it's more a tender, if you ask me right now, and I don't see any price max limit to it. I hope this answers the question.

I guess so. We have not received any more questions or risen hands. [Operator Instructions] But I think there are no further questions so far and everybody seems perfectly happy.

So Mr. Rixen, Mrs. Wolters, we, therefore, come to the end of today's earnings call, I guess. Thank you for your participation and obviously your questions. If you have any further questions at a later time, please do not hesitate to contact Investor Relations. A big thank you also to you, Mr. Rixen and Mrs. Wolters for your presentation and for taking the time to answer all the questions.

We wish you all a good remaining week. Goodbye. And I hand over one last time to you, Mr. Rixen, for the last final remarks.

We'd like to thank you for your time, and we hope that you see the way we are taking -- so we will not -- we will -- the foundation is what we did the last year. This we will, let's say, enhance with this industry and AI, and we like to develop the q.beyond to a European player. That's it for -- that's in the strategy for next 3 years, and we are happy to give you an update soon. Thank you very much.

Hello, everyone, and a warm welcome to the European IT-Services Summit. It is a pleasure to have you all here today, and this session is dedicated to the q.beyond AG, and I'm delighted to welcome the CEO, Thies Rixen, who will share insights with us. And with this, I hand over to you, Thies. The stage is yours.

Thank you. Thank you. Hello, everybody. From the very cold Hamburg, we have now minus 8, and we have some problem with our heating in our building. So the hoodie is the warmest I found this morning in my office. So therefore, it's me with a hoodie and not with a shirt. Yes, I'd like to tell you something where we are at the moment. So our strategy is working, return to profitability. And I'd like to you -- to get you or to show you more details where we are and where we want to go. So the famous disclaimer upfront.

So still, it was the last 3 years. So I'm CEO since 2023, and the mantra is, profit before growth. Before that, it was the opposite. And we will still keep it. On the other hand, we see that we need some growth for future profits. I will show you in a minute. So the strategy, you see on the left-hand side, will change in March. We will have a strategy '28. We -- last year, it was still the focused business model, effective go-to-market with the channel approach, 20%, 25% Vodafone and Deutsche Telekom, so mainly telco operators and then One q.beyond was an efficiency program, which we drove in the last year.

So where are we? So we are free cash flow positive since years. The profitable growth, the profit is there, the growth I will show you is not as we like it to be. So we will grow -- we have grown last year 1.4%, 1.5%. We like it to have it more like 3% to 5%. EBITDA margin 7%, which is the figure right now. And we have since 7 or 8 years, we have a positive net income achieved last year. Here, you see the journey as we started 3% EBITDA margin, we are now at 7%. We like it to be at 10% in the midterm.

Yes, that's our company, over 1,000 customers, mainly the size of the amount is driven by the channel customers. There are 100, let's say, A customers. And then we have many, many, many other customers or smaller ones where the journey is that we transfer them to A customers. We are working with 1,000 -- over 1,000 tech experts across Europe, India and the U.S.A., 15 locations, mainly in Germany, Latvia, Spain. Nearshore ratio is 20%. We -- our aim is to push it to 30% end of this year.

We have reached 7% EBITDA margin, as I told you, and have a net cash or net liquidity of EUR 42 million with no debt in our books. Business model is unchanged. We have 4 core technology portfolio elements, and we like to combine it with industry expertise. This will be also one of our M&A focus for this year. So we are very strong in retail logistics manufacturing and have some customers in banking insurance and public sector. And we like to enlarge it or to enhance it with another industry like energy or health industry because our belief is that there's a lot of digital transformation still ongoing, and we can have a footprint when we combine our technology expertise with the industry expertise.

Here the main customers. Last year, we achieved an order entry of EUR 215 million, which is a record, EUR 215 million of order intake last year. The main deal was the contract prolongation with the biggest client Rohlig, in the logistics industry for 5 years. This contract ends this year in October, and we prolonged it for 5 years with over EUR 80 million of order intake.

The next biggest customers are Tchibo, this is German Starbucks. And Fressnapf, we still have contracts with them. Fressnapf will be prolonged this year. Tchibo is -- runs for several years. The basis for our success is, for sure, service, security and trust. You see the numbers. We have -- most of the customers are over 10 years with us. So the biggest 3 Tchibo, Fressnapf over 10 years with us, Rohlig is now the sixth year. Normally, the contract runs for at least 3 years, [indiscernible] runs a duration of 4 to 5. We prolong most of the contracts, so 95% and still ongoing that we cross-sell our portfolio.

So last year, our biggest aim was to have a positive net income, as I showed you, here are some numbers. So consolidated net income, the middle was minus EUR 4 million, '24, now it's EUR 2.5 million. Last year EBITDA, 17% more than '24 with EUR 12 million, free cash flow over EUR 5 million, also better than the year before. The numbers were pushed by some special effects which have to be accounted but that's business.

On the other side, we had also some negative impacts and some investments, which I'll show you in a minute. I am going to skip this slide. So as I said, focus on profitable revenues. We grow the business. So this is an apple-to-apple comparison, 1.4%, 1.5%. These are still not the latest numbers, they are not audited. You see the relevant factors. From management side, we look very carefully that we only have business in our books, which is highly profitable. So we put or divested some profit, which is -- or some revenue, which is not as profitable as we like it to have like license business, like where we have some [indiscernible] where we have only a small margin. But what we have still in our books is that we have a high share of recurring revenue. So we see over 70% is contracted, and we are concentrating on the 5 sectors, I mentioned before.

So what we have done this year, we invested some of the, let's say, special impact, which we gained from the German tax authority back of our personal transaction. So we get some money back -- some tax money back from the transaction we did in 2019. And we invested a lot of money, EUR 3 million altogether in portfolio upgrade, which we call Qube internally. Then we pushed the international hubs. So what we do is do not only have tech experts in Latvia and Spain. We started to build sales organizations there to have the first revenue this year out of this -- out of the [ Balticom ] and out of Spain. We invested in ourselves in digitalization. So we upgraded on our SAP system to the cloud version of SAP and built a team of AI. So we pushed the AI expertise and built a platform and a team around it to consult our customers in the AI space.

Sorry, Thies, I think you have muted yourself. We cannot hear you anymore.

That's true. That's true. Sorry, wrong button. Sorry. So free cash flow grew by EUR 5 million, as I said, net liquidity over EUR 40 million, and we bought the final shares in the q.beyond Data Solutions, which is our data intelligence unit, very much linked to the AI business.

So what's the outlook for this and the upcoming years? As I said, in March, I will give you more details on the strategy but the overall goal is still that we focus on services. So we like to be the service leader in our industry because we are convinced that this will drive value at the end and growth. So we will invest our money in, I think, in SAP capabilities for certain industry, energy and health is our target.

We will push internationalization, especially in the [ Balticom ] -- the Baltic states and in Spain. The Spanish IT service market is 50% of the size of Germany and had a better dynamic. So we will start there with this technology we have already in our portfolio and expertise. And we will position ourselves, especially in the sovereign AI space or portfolio that the customers can with us use AI in a safe and compliant and sovereign way.

That I said already, so our goal is to have 30% end of this year of the workforce in the offshore and nearshore locations. AI, you know that is in every head right now, a lot of discussions. We position ourselves that we say we have our own enterprise AI platform. This is a sovereign play. And then we -- for sure, we work with Microsoft and SAP to use their AIs, so the customer can still choose from my point of view, the -- our main potential is in the enterprise AI platform. So number one, where we see them better, the best dynamic and the most demand.

So we build our own data centers. We build an open source AI platform, build a team around it, and this will grow further. So current market valuation is -- today is, let's say, roughly [ EUR 100 million -- EUR 93 million -- roughly EUR 900 million ]. So why do we think it's a good investment in us is when you combine the cash and the value of our data center, which is our own. We have 5 and the biggest one here in Hamburg is our own. When you combine it the 2 figures of the EUR 40 million, the EUR 50 million equals the market value more or less. So the -- and when you then have the business -- the value of the business, then you have a different valuation as we have right now.

Therefore, we think to invest in our shares is a good idea. Maybe you have seen it, we had our extraordinary assembly, shareholder assembly last Friday, where we laid the foundation that we can do the share buyback as soon as possible. Q3 is now the time line. So we get permission to do it from the January assembly, and we will start as soon as possible. Time line right now is Q3 this year. And then we are allowed to buy back 10% of our shares every year.

Here's a summary of what we do right now. So we will still, as I said, focus on profit. We will push our efficiency and to reduce our cost base through nearshore and AI. So we will use AI not only for our customers, also for ourselves, 5% efficiency per year is our overall goal. As I said, we will buy our shares back. We are also allowed to pay a dividend next -- the '27 for '26, and we'll use some of the cash for M&A. And these altogether are some arguments why someone should consider to invest in our shares. This is it from my side. I'm happy to take your questions.

[Operator Instructions] We will now move on to the Q&A session for a dynamic conversation. [Operator Instructions] We have not received any risen hands yet. There is a question, though. What are your plans for future internalization?

Yes. First of all, we'd like to enhance or push our nearshore quota. So from the workforce, we are now 20%. We like to push or enhance -- increase 10% this year to 30% plus. We will -- we have at least some millions in revenue combined in [ Balticom ] and Spain. The U.S. is also included, but this will also help us see where the dynamic is there. So in these 3 countries, we'd like to see at least a 7-figure million this year and then a strong growth in the future years.

Thank you so much. Are there any risen hands? No. We do have another question in the chat box, though, which is, what is the plan for the capital allocation of your cash holdings?

In summary, I see 3 main buckets. One is a share buyback, which is the priority. Second one is invest in the sector expertise, especially in energy and health. And the third one is dividends. And with this 3, for the 2, we are now allowed to do it. And the M&A pipeline is not [ full ], but there are some interesting targets, which we are proceeding right now, and I hope to be able to announce the first one in the first 6 months this year.

Perfect. Thank you so much. We have received another question. Can you elaborate a little bit more about the risk side and possible pressures from AI regarding our business model?

I see -- to be honest, I don't see so much risk because we have no -- we have -- the reason why is, we are a service company, and we work for -- at least in Germany for the German Mittelstand. So I don't see any disruption because I don't -- we don't have any products, any software products. I don't see any there. I see only -- to be honest, I see only chances for potentials in consulting our clients execute for them projects or help them to execute their AI road map and also to operate their AI models. So this would be my answer.

Thank you so much and thank you for the question. We have received one more question. Are there plans to divest the data centers in order to increase value?

Yes, but not now. So we have 2 potentials in our data center, though we have 1,000 square meters free capacity right now, which we sell -- which we sold last year a little bit and we will sell more this year. So this will -- these 1,000 square meters give us a profit of roughly EUR 2 million to EUR 3 million. And normally, we have a 5-year contract. And then we have another 1,000 square meters we must renovate, let's say, we have to invest in it. But if we are able to sell the free capacity plus the sovereign discussion right now and at least in Europe, where we like to be more independent from the U.S. players, I think there's a high probability that we will also invest in the second free capacity and sell this.

And then at my point of view, then we have the maximum value, maximum value of the data center. So let's say this is midterm 3 years from now. But the timing now would be -- is from my point of view, not the best or the most valuable for the company.

All right. Thank you so much, and thank you for answering the question. No further questions have appeared in the chat box nor do we have any risen hands right now. [Operator Instructions]

As no further questions have come in, we now come to an end of today's roundtable of the q.beyond AG. Should further questions arise at a later time, please feel free to contact Head of IR, M&A, Arne Thull. Thank you dearly to Thies and to you all for attending this call. And now I hand over for your final remarks, Thies.

No. Thank you for your attention. I hope I put some details to the investment story, equity story of q.beyond. I wish you a good start of the week and see you soon.

Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and I warmly welcome you to today's earnings call of the q.beyond AG following the publication of the Q3 figures of 2025. We are delighted to welcome CEO, Thies Rixen; and CFO, Nora Wolters, who will guide us through the presentation and the results in a moment. [Operator Instructions]

And with that, I would like to hand over to you, Mr. Rixen.

Yes. Thank you very much. Good afternoon to all of you. I'm happy -- Nora and myself are happy to present the Q3 numbers. Headline has returned to profitability, what we aim for this year, so positive net income for the group. And Q3 is first milestone to reach it. And our -- all what we see is that it will be also the case in Q4. We will present you the numbers right now and give you a little bit of an outlook what will happen until end of the year and how do we start or how do we manage next year.

Nora has most of the workload concerning the figures. So I hand over to her, and Nora will present the figures of Q3.

Thank you, Thies. Welcome from my side. As you can hear, my voice is not so strong as it normally is. I apologize for that. And so let's start with Q3. 2025 is a very special year for q.beyond. We focused action in a stagnant environment. And in this situation, we returned to profitability as we announced.

So let's use a quote of Ralph Waldo, "those who know the destination will find the way." And this is our clear message we deliver. If you look to the key figures, it shows a significant improvement. Again, the EBITDA increases. We have a positive consolidated net income and an increased free cash flow as well. So we deliver and we are on track.

How do we consider the current development? You see 2 sides of a coin. The confirmation of our strategy is seen in the figures. We see the increase of efficiency and resilience. Additionally, we took advantage of a tax windfall resulting from the Plusnet transaction. On the other side of the coin, we suffer from economic underperformance, and we are affected, for example, by the situation of the German small- and medium-sized enterprises who delays and stop tenders. Additionally, we do not see the EUR 1 billion package from the German government in any tender. So the weak economy affects us as well.

You cannot always write into the slip stream. So q.beyond has a clear focus on profitability, and that is seen in our numbers. First of all, I'd like to start with the revenue. We have a resilient business model that is stabilized in a challenging environment as well. Concerning the revenue, we waived off low-margin revenue in the end of last year. So it is not a surprise for us because we planned more profitable revenue instead of an increase. Additionally, our data center is not selling in the same speed as we hoped. So there's a reluctance to make decisions among small- and medium-sized enterprises as well.

On the other side, we noticed an increase of our order entry. In Q3, we almost had twice as high as the last quarter of 2024. Concerning the year-to-date, we have an increase of 8% concerning our order entry book. So it's a great basis for the next year.

On this slide, you see the former quarters and the view of 2025. As you see, we always have a very strong last quarter. And this is what we expect for 2025 as well. We focus on consultancy and development services, and we noticed a strong demand on AI solutions, picking up noticeably and implementation of tools. For example, our private enterprise AI is already sold and increases in development.

On the medium term, there will be use of technology as well along the entire value chain. So if you look, for example, as SAP, there's a prioritization of companies in the S/4 migration for the next 3 years. So we expect a strong Q4, which is important if you look at the guidance later.

We report 2 segments, Consulting and Managed Service. I would like to start at first with Consulting. In this quarter, we doubled our earnings. The margin grew up, and you see a remarkable improvement in our earnings. The measurable upskilling in the last year of the q.beyond Academy and the systematic performance management is very visible in our improvement. Additionally, we had a lot of contract extension and won new customers.

Our second segment is Managed Services. It is relative stable of margin despite of reduced revenue. As I mentioned before, we focus on high-margin business. So additionally, we invested in our portfolio q. and AI cases. So you see a lower margin in this quarter. On the other hand, we have the same situation in Consulting, an increasing booking of contracts. So we are based very well for the next year.

2024 has a clear goal for us, a positive consolidated net income. On the slide, you see the P&L with the most important positions.

What is important to know, we consistently invest in AI, especially our private AI -- private enterprise AI and develop our portfolio q. We are proud first customers take place in the private enterprise AI. And so we make significant progress in AI and improvement for our customers and their benefits.

Another positive effect we had is the tax windfall, which you see in the other operating result as well. Furthermore, I'd like to point out that we make at the moment many digitalization projects. As you may know, we invest in a new ERP system and in 2 other digitalization projects. This is an amount of more than EUR 1 billion that we invest in processes and improvement for the next years.

Our last financial figure is the free cash flow. Traditionally, Q3 is a very weak quarter. In the whole year-to-date, the free cash flow is about EUR 3.6 million, so it's increasing as well. It has to be regarded that we had higher expenses for investment in digitalization this year and reduced liabilities as well. Our net liquidity is among EUR 41.3 million this year. So that means a lot of possibilities for us for share buybacks, dividends or M&A. At the moment, there's no final decision. We want to take advantage of all this possibility and we'll inform you of the next steps. So sustainable success comes from sticking the course in difficult times.

We are very proud to confirm our guidance today. My message is very clear. As you see on the slide, all of our financial figures will be reached at the end of the year. The revenue will be at the lower end of the guidance and the EBITDA and the consolidated net income as expected. So it's a great message for you. We are on track, we deliver. And well, we are looking very positively for Q4.

And with this message, I leave it to Thies.

Yes. Thank you, Nora. So what's the plan for this year and also for next year? So we will -- point number one is profit over growth. This is the case, will be the case also for the future. Near and offshoring, we are now at 20% or will be at 20%. In the national delivery capacity, let's say, 30% is the near-term goal. On top of it, we will start -- we hired sales people for the Baltic market as for the Spanish market. So we expect the first revenues to come maybe this year, for sure next year. And we expect, let's say, an impact -- the first impact in Q3, Q4 concerning the top line next year.

So automation is driven by AI. Nora mentioned it. So we invested this year in the foundation of it. So we're in a data hub, a new ERP system so that we can use AI because now we are -- end of the year, we will be fully digitalized. There, we invested on top of the EUR 1 million we invested in the foundation, we invested again in AI for us and also for customer -- for the customer platform and in competencies so that we have a share of the AI revenue next year. This is 3 and 4 -- number three and four.

And number five is we also start to invest heavily in our portfolio upgrade, mainly for Managed Service, which we call internally q., so this means AI in every service. So tool chain -- AI tool chain in every service and on top of this, all what is security needed and all what is needed from the regulation for banks, insurance companies or others like this NIS or DORA -- in the DORA or NIS framework. So with that, we will be able to drive efficiency and also to win businesses.

When we look at our order entry, we see 8% more than last year. Compared to last year, we are aiming for, let's say, EUR 180 million order entry this year, which will be for q. beyond a record figure.

Our midterm goal remains unchanged. We will -- let's see where we end up this year, 7% to 8% EBITDA positive net income for the group and then we will aim for 10%. The new strategy 2028, we will release Q1 next year for the next 3 years over '26, '27, '28. And in this period, we try to reach 10%.

With that, we'd like to close this conference call and happy to get your questions. Thank you very much.

[Operator Instructions] And with that said, I can already see one question in our chat box. Let me read it out loud. Is the tax windfall profit of EUR 2.8 million in the EBITDA and the EBIT number included? If so, adjusted EBITDA and EBIT is much weaker, correct?

Yes, it is.

So what is included -- it's included. I'd like to take a broader picture. So we had several effects out of the Plusnet transaction in 2019. And you can't -- we all know that. It's in tax questions, it's not easy to say. So they are included.

On the other hand, we have to cope with a weak economy and weak customer demand on plus we invested. We invested, as we said, in the AI foundation in AI cases and in the portfolio, which will help us in the future. So yes, there's a windfall. This is included in the numbers and it helps us in Q3, but all the investments we took will help us in Q4 and so on. So in Germany, we say, look, I can't translate it, but it's in business sometimes. It's on the right side of the corner, the impact.

[Operator Instructions] We do have a risen hand as well. Mr.

Nilsson.

I want to start with the future outlook here. I mean despite having perhaps a slightly softer quarter this time adjusted for that one-off, I mean, you sound quite optimistic about both next quarter and also looking into next year with the order book and so on. I mean do you think that is enough to show positive revenue growth despite the focus on profitability?

Yes, we will show some growth. I mean we will -- I think the market -- there was a lot of reluctance in the last quarters. We all suffer from it. There are a lot of deals postponed. They cannot be postponed forever. So at some point in time, there will be investments and this will, let's say, drive our numbers. So -- and for next year, we will see growth. It will be not double digit, for sure, but there will be growth. And the market -- let's see where the market is heading. 3% to 5%, I think, is realistic. Let's see where we end up in the final numbers for next year. It's hard to say, to be honest. But we are not -- we have done this revenue cut this year where we cut it out, let's say, bad revenue. So this will not happen again. And on this foundation, this basis, we will grow the business next year.

Okay. Great. And also, I mean, taking off the one-off in this quarter, I mean, you need a quite substantial improvement in Q4 in order to reach your guidance, and you seem quite confident in reaching that. So could you perhaps elaborate a bit what underlying drivers that will take you there in addition to seasonality?

Yes. It's -- every year the same structure. There will be several impacts. There are a lot of projects, which will be built where the work is already done, where we get the revenue and profit. This is one effect. Then there is a higher utilization overall, plus there are some license deal, especially in the SAP arena, where we -- if we close them, then we -- then this revenue equals profit. So this is, let's say, every year, this is the same rhythm. And this will help us as in last year or the year before to have much more better numbers than in the quarters before.

[Operator Instructions] We have not received any further questions in the meantime. Are there any, please put them into our chat box or raise your hand. I think Mr. Rixen, Mrs. Wolters, everybody seems perfectly happy. There are no questions so far.

And with that said, we just received a question. Was the investment of EUR 1 million done this quarter?

Yes, there are 2 investments. There's one we did, which was included in the plan. This was the foundation. And then the other investments have been done in the quarter. And when we sum it up, it's another -- it's above EUR 1 million. So there's EUR 1 million over EUR 1 million. We never disclosed this. I think the whole is in the foundation, digitalization foundation and another has been done in the quarter.

The same person has another question concerning that topic. Was this CapEx or OpEx?

OpEx.

Correct.

And this is for the future. This is something where we will have the impacts -- the positive impacts in the future. It's mainly OpEx because we use our own consultants, our own technology specialists to build tool chains, processes. For example, the features for the AI platform, which we released was in Q2 April. So we optimized or we put some more features in it, and this will hopefully help us in the future.

There are no further questions so far. [Operator Instructions] But I think there are no further questions. And I would say, therefore, we come to an end of today's earnings call. Thank you for your participation and your questions. If there are any further questions that arise at a later time, please do not hesitate to contact Investor Relations. A big thank you also to you, Mr. Rixen and Mrs. Wolters, for your presentation and for taking the time to answer the questions. We wish you all a good remaining week. Goodbye, and see you next time.

Thank you. Goodbye.

Bye.

Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and I warmly welcome you to today's earnings call of the q.beyond AG following the publication of the Q2 and first half year figures of 2025. I'm delighted to welcome CEO, Thies Rixen; and CFO, Nora Wolters, who will guide us through the presentation and the results shortly. And afterwards, we are happy to take your questions in our Q&A session.

And having said this, Mr. Rixen, I hand over to you.

Yes. Thank you. Yes, a warm welcome also from our side. We like to report Q2 numbers. All in all, let's say, we are quite satisfied with the results. We know that we have a good chance to deliver more in the second half of the year. You will see the details. Nora will present it in a minute.

From my side, strategy execution is on track. We have a full funnel for the second half of the year, which will guide us through this year and also prepare next year. And I will give you another outlook at the end of the presentation. And now Nora will guide you through the numbers.

Thank you. A warm welcome again from my side, and I'm very glad to show you now the half year financial results. In a nutshell, q.beyond is sailing strongly and is very close to the goal of 2025. It's our positive consolidated net income.

To start with a quote by Franklin D. Roosevelt, "a smooth sea never made a skilled sailor." So we are very proud we reached further milestones in challenging market or to use sailing terms in stormy seas. As you see our highlight, our EBITDA increased by 23%.

The success of our Strategy 2025 or 2025plus effectively goes on. We significantly improved in all key figures, as you see for Q2. That means gross profit by 8.5%, the EBITDA by 23% and the consolidated net income got a breakeven.

So I want to show what q.beyond has for 5 strong pillars of success. The first one is our Strategy '25plus. That means we are extending sector expertise. There's an expansion abroad. And finally, expanding AI and security expertise. The second pillar is our strong balance sheet. We have now reached an equity ratio of 68%, which is really impressive. Our third pillar is the liquidity. Now we own nearly EUR 40 million, which are the requirement for maybe M&A, for paying dividends or making a share buyback.

Our fourth pillar is AI. AI has a rapid advancement and is a key to productivity, innovation and competitiveness. Q.beyond offers a platform, we call it Enterprise AI, IT, sovereignty and data protection. And our last pillar is the cybersecurity. Cybersecurity is crucial for digital transformation, for critical infrastructure, for example, and cloud. That means that all in all, with our resilient business model, we are absolutely well on our way.

Q.beyond continues on its successful path to the consolidated net income. I want to show you some figures. The revenue increased by 2% adjusted. Our resilient business model ensures a good Q2 and the continuation of profitability over growth. We continued our focus on profitable solutions and services. That means we have a loss of revenue about EUR 3 million to EUR 4 million every quarter. Finally, the adjusted revenue means an increase of revenue, not a loss.

Most important message is our profitability continues to rise. As you see, we are growing. We have a really resistant and solid business model, about 70% recurring revenues and a clear industry focus and a strong sector expertise, which is our key factor for success in Managed Services.

We report 2 segments, Managed Services and Consulting. Starting with Managed Services, we improved our margin again. 67% of our revenues took place in the segment Managed Services. It's the highest proportion of nearshore in our company, about 35%. We focus on AI use and automation stabilizes and improves margin at 22%. Additionally, we have high customer satisfaction named on the use, for example, of the Lünendonk study, where we are named as one of the top 20 IT service companies in Germany.

Our second segment, Consulting improved really far more, a lot. The margin doubled more than in the quarter the year before. Now we have 33% of our revenue and the gross margin increased by 155%. It's really an impressive number, and we are absolutely proud of this development.

We have a measurable sales focus, for example, in SAP, Microsoft Security and cloud consulting. I'd like to tell you or I'm very proud to tell you that last week, we were named as prioritized tier for Microsoft Jumpstart Partner Program. We are one of three partners in Germany. That means an opportunity of [indiscernible]. So a great opportunity for us to grow and to improve Consulting again. Consulting and development are essential parts of our value chain. That's what we create value at q.beyond. And to sum it up, both segments, Managed Services and Consulting deliver a good margin that makes q.beyond profitable.

If you look at our numbers, I'd like to point out two positions. The first is the so-called SG&A. We started a digitalization program in 2025, means we invest about EUR 1 million for an SAP system for a time reporting program and a project operation, which is for the project. The second position is the other operating result. We have a partial reversal of the deferred final purchase price for q.beyond Data Solution. So there's an impact in Q2 because the contracts for the final tranche always were signed.

We have a clear goal for 2025, the positive consolidated net income. We reached the breakeven point even at June. The EBITDA margin further increased up to 6%, and our goal is 7% to 8% at the end of this year. So our profitability grows due to our consistent strategy implementation.

The last financial figure is the free cash flow. Q.beyond has a solid and resilient position, and again, our free cash flow growth. At the end of June, we received the payment of the escrow amount. We expect the tax payment will cost us liquidity until the end of this year, but it depends on the tax office to get the final payment. So the free cash flow will remain positive, although the escrow amount was paid in this year. So additional, just for your information, we paid the third tranche for the Data Solution. And at the end of this year, we paid the final tranche with 100% shares for q.beyond.

So if you look on the balance sheet, you will see, again, the improvement. With the amount of the escrow account, we paid liability, especially the trade payables. That's really important for the net -- for the equity ratio that improved up to 68%. We are continuously increasing our cash position and q.beyond strengthened its balance sheet structures with the payment of the liabilities.

Our net liquidity is nearly at EUR 40 million, means EUR 0.32 for each share. We are well prepared for the next steps, maybe M&A, dividends, share buyback or a mixture. We will decide soon.

Q.beyond is profitable, solid and a healthy company. We have clear goals and a consistent management. We are proud of our satisfied customers and the increasing satisfied shareholders and the rising of the share price more than 30% since the beginning of the year.

My last and preferred slide, our guidance. Revenue makes you work, profit makes you happy. My message for you is very clear. We deliver every month, every quarter, every year. I'm proud, especially in this challenging market, we can confirm today the guidance for 2025. Our guidance mean an increase of 5% adjusted revenue, more than 15% EBITDA and finally, the positive consolidated net income. To put it in a nutshell, we are well on our way. And second, we deliver. Keep this in mind, and I'm glad to give it back to Thies.

Thank you, Nora. I will finish or close this session with some general remarks about our strategy. So our strategic levers are still in place. So we say profit for growth as the overall direction is number one. Number two is we will push the offshore quota to 20%, 30% is our midterm goal. Automation and AI, I put it together as three and four. So what we are doing or what we have kicked off is that our portfolio, especially Managed Services will get an upgrade. We call this [indiscernible] project where we put AI in every service as automation and we put the NIS and DORA compliance issue -- not issues, but requirements, we put in every service. We kicked this off. We will phase rollout, I think Q1 next year, Q2 next year, we will be finished. So this will help us to have a more efficient and more effective portfolio.

Our goal is this year, 7% to 8% EBITDA margin. This will get us to a positive net income, as Nora said already. And our midterm target is 10%. There, we are more or less at benchmark and maybe a little bit better, and then we will keep on. How we will do this or deliver even further, we said it several times, I'll repeat it now. So we will extend our sector expertise. So we will put on top of our technology expertise, which will bring us to this 10% EBITDA. We will put more sector expertise in it or on it as we did in logistics, mainly with acquisitions. Then we will use our international expertise, mainly in Eastern Europe and Southern Europe to do business there, so -- to do business, not only have resources as we have now, so also to do business and then push AI and security further and further because this will be one of the two top topics in the near future.

And overall, we like to be the service leader for the German Mittelstand or European Mittelstand in the future. This is our overall goal.

So having said that, I thank you for your time, and we are happy to take your questions.

[Operator Instructions] Mr. Nilsson raised up his hand. So Fredrik, you'll be able to speak now.

Can you hear me?

Yes, yes.

Great. I want to start with the growth within Consulting, which seems quite strong, especially considering the macroeconomic environment. What is driving that growth? And considering the guidance you gave, I assume you believe to keep a quite high growth rate in that segment going forward. Is that the right interpretation?

Yes, it is. As you may know, let's say, we have struggled a lot in the near past to get the Consulting business on track or to the right results. So we have it now. What is it? It's a combination of sales, so good go-to-market and the right skills in the right place. This is a combination. And we -- what the customers like, they like that we are able to -- after the Consulting piece, so after the project business, this is plan and build, we can also do the run business. And this combination helps us now, and we don't see any reasons why this will be not the case in the future because when our customers are thinking about digitalization, using AI or what to be better at security, they need both. They need project to set it up, and they need a good operational layer or a provider, which will run the whole thing. So we feel ourselves good positioned in this kind of field.

Great. And you've touched upon it a bit, but I mean, regarding M&A, and then I assume you will focus on strengthening or adding new focus verticals. But could you give us some update about the environment? I mean, are there companies to acquire and so on? What does it look like right now?

So overall, we're looking for companies above EUR 10 million turnover and above 10% EBITDA margin. So this is for the financial -- these are the financial KPIs. And we are looking for companies which have sector expertise. So we have enough, let's say, or we have not enough, but sufficient technology expertise. We have never enough, but we have sufficient technology expertise. And what we are looking for is to get more sector expertise to bring more -- even more value to the customer. So we are looking for energy -- the energy industry and health care. We have a pipeline with some candidates in it. We are in different status. Each candidate have a different status. And what we're aiming for Nora and myself is to close one candidate this year in this kind of even health care or energy, maybe there's a third one, let's see.

Great. That's interesting. And reading your report, it seems like you assume some kind of slight improvements in the German market coming from quite low levels. Is that the right interpretation of that statement?

First of all, we believe in ourselves, and we believe that we can do better in the second half of the year. And when the economy kicks in, maybe there's even some more room for improvement. But the first message is we believe in ourselves, okay, if the markets -- if there's a crisis or something an external shock, then we will get also hit by that. But when the economy is stable as it is now, and we do our homework, we don't see any reasons to get -- not to deliver our numbers.

Okay. Great. And one final question from me. Could you elaborate a bit on the initial feedback for the private enterprise AI and also something about your long-term expectations? I mean, how large share approximately of your customer base do you think is interested in this for the long term?

We look at AI as a technology. And most of technology are overrated in the beginning and they are underestimated in the long term -- they are underestimated in the impact long term. So what happens right now that a lot -- you all know that there's a lot of marketing and sales in the AI sales and AI marketing out there. So our customers, we launched it in April, the platform. They are still in this kind of evaluating phase. We expect the first signing in Q3. So we're in good talks. The main thing for us is that it will be mid or long term, it will be a mid- to long-term play. So what we do now is we position ourselves -- we try to position ourselves in the right spot and then do two things. One is do the right consulting, the right projects with our customers and then get some of the recurring Managed Services business when we run the AI environment, in a private manner. I hope I answered your question.

Yes, absolutely. That's clear.

Thank you so much for your questions, Fredrik. Sir, by now, we have no further virtual hands in the queue. So then let's move to the chat box. And then we received the question. Can you give us an update on buyback and dividend plans?

Yes, we are aiming at paying a dividend or a share buyback, but we have two steps. The first is the positive net income we will reach at the end of 2025. And the second is something we have to check in the balance sheet. We are approving at the moment. So we are thinking of paying a dividend in 2027 for 2026. But there are more options. As Thies already mentioned, there's also M&A. And instead of paying a dividend, maybe a share buyback or maybe a mixture of all three.

And then we have another virtual hand from [ Olev Koletzki ].

I had a few thoughts after the German version of the call. So I ask them now, if I may. But first, some clarification as low-hanging fruit. I understood due to the focus on profitability, you lose revenue. But now I understood Nora we lose EUR 2 million every quarter in revenue. I understood before this is a one-off Q2 to Q2 of the prior year, not recurring quarter-on-quarter, right?

Yes.

So talking Turkey, you mentioned the nearshoring personnel at a quota of 20% now and the goal of 30%. Is that on the payroll or contractors or both?

No, that the -- when you have the workforce, how much of the workforce is in the international hubs or nearshore centers.

Yes, sure. I understand that. But is that your people on your payroll, so on [indiscernible]? Or is that contractors or...

No, no, that -- okay. That are all q.beyond companies and they are all on our payroll.

Okay. So contractors only serve for secured business then?

Yes.

So you don't kind of secure contractors in advance in case of getting the business.

No, no, no.

That's good to hear. So you mentioned in the first call, utilization rate of the workforce of 70% to 75% with a target of 80% plus. So that refers to consultants on the payroll, also not including contractors. So there is no unused capacity with contractors?

Yes. So we are looking always at our own employees. And when we look at utilization, we count this -- we measure this number.

Okay. And q.beyond differentiates itself from competitors by not only offering AI software, but offering services to Mittelstand clients to clean up or aggregate their data to mitigate the [indiscernible] garbage in garbage out problem. Did I get that correct?

Yes.

So maybe you should put out that differentiation a bit more strongly because I think it's an important point and also in WhatsApp groups where we use a lot of different times quite expensive AI software, you often have that problem. So I think it's an important point to tell people we can mitigate that. We don't only sell you the software. I think it's a major part.

You're right. Yes.

Also, you said in the first call that also the Mittelstand begins to understand the importance of remaining independent from U.S. dominance IT. Isn't that a growth understatement? Isn't it rather at least getting slightly closer to something not even being independent, but not being totally dependent on the U.S. I would rather assume that right now, it's like 95% plus is run and dominated by the U.S. and even getting a small share of that would greatly help businesses like yours. It's very far from being independent?

Yes, that's true. It's far from independent. It's more -- getting more independent. What happened is with the cloud impact, -- so first -- for 10 years from now, it was only software license. And now it's software plus the run piece. So -- and it's getting more independent. You're right. So it's part.

But you would still address with these 2 points kind of cleaning up the data one and being a little bit independent at least, only Mittelstand clients. So you don't address enterprises at all?

No, it depends. But for the Mittelstand, let's say, EUR 100 million to EUR 500 million turnover, that's our target group. So we have some with billions of revenue, and we will not -- let's see, we will not avoid them, but you have to have a focus. This is our focus, and we position ourselves as, let's say, it's a long-term trusted partner whatever happens. And this will be our main focus also in the future.

I mean in terms of commercials, the company most visible, at least for people not really proficient in the sector like myself, there is Jonas, United Internet basically saying, we need at least a little bit of independence in Manager Magazin and so on. Are you considering working together with them on that topic? [indiscernible] is quite a strong player actually.

Yes, IONOS, what they are offering is a kind of platform services for infrastructure like STACKIT. So what they don't have is the service piece. I could imagine some scenarios in the future when we go -- when we have some asset -- more asset less scenarios, then I could -- we could imagine some that we work either with IONOS or with STACKIT from the Schwarz Group, these 2 are possibilities.

But basically saying they provide the platform, you provide the service, especially cleaning up the data for them?

Yes, right.

Okay. So final question. You just mentioned that one M&A target for the rest of the year is at least probable. Assuming that, would that still leave headroom for a share buyback during the rest of '25? Or is basically that using up all 3 resources for the rest of the year?

It depends...

Assuming it happens.

Yes. It depends a little bit of the price of the target, but we plan it like this, that we have some headroom to do share buyback. It always depends. We said EUR 10 million, 10% EBITDA. Maybe we get a target with EUR 20 million, then it's a higher price for sure. But still, we are aiming for starting share buyback next year.

Thank you for your questions, [ Olev ]. And then we have two further questions in the chat box. How has data center usage rate developed this far this year?

Not as we -- not satisfying, to be honest. So we sold some square meters, have 2 to 3 big deals in the pipeline. I hope we can announce the first deal in Q3. It's a little bit more complicated than we expected. For us, it's a mid- to long-term play. What we may be underestimated is that we have to position ourselves in this kind of arena and learn some things. So this is the answer. It's a good pipeline. It's not -- we have not sold so much as we expected. But still, as Nora reported, still can improve our numbers. So for us, it's a booster. So us every square meter in the data center is a profit booster.

All right. Further question. Is the majority of CapEx related to growth CapEx or maintenance CapEx is small?

It's for the first half of the year is mainly maintenance CapEx. There's some growth CapEx in it. As I said in the beginning, our pipeline is quite high. So we have a funnel of EUR 200 million right now, and we expect to harvest this in the second half of the year. And when we will put in our -- when we put the service piece in our own data center, then for sure, we will have some CapEx with it, some growth CapEx with it, also when we sell AI services out of our own data center.

All right. And then we have just an understanding question. So are you aiming for buybacks in 2026? Did I hear that correct?

Yes. This is correct.

Okay. Thank you so much. In the meantime, we did not receive any further questions. [Operator Instructions] But it seems everything is answered so far. So with that, we will come to the end of today's earnings call. Thank you so much for your participation and for your strong interest in q.beyond. So should further questions arise at a later time, please feel free to contact Arne Thull from Investor Relations or if you're joining the Hamburger Investor Day on August 27, q.beyond and Mr. Rixen will be there as well.

So from our side, have a lovely remaining Monday, a good summer season and all the best to you. So thank you so much.

Thank you. Bye.

Goodbye.

Bye.