Zumtobel Group Aktie

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to Zumtobel Group's Conference Call on our First 9 Months and Third Quarter Results for our 2025, '26 Financial Year. With me on the call today are Alfred Felder, our CEO; and Thomas Erath, our CFO. Alfred will walk you through the highlights of the quarter, while Thomas will discuss the financial performance. After the presentation, both gentlemen will be available to answer your questions. In case you have not a copy of the report and the presentation, you may find both documents for download on our web page. After the call, a playback of this conference call will be available on our web page as well.

And with this, I hand over to Alfred.

Thank you, Eric. Good morning, and welcome, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for joining us today for our Q3 call. The third quarter was once again a challenging period for our business as market condition and the broader economic environment remained difficult, impacted by the geopolitical tensions and particularly now since last week also the latest developments in the Middle East. However, in Europe, we begin to see signs of demand in new construction, but the recovery remains rather modest. The market climate continues to be shaped by the global uncertainty. And therefore, still, we are having, as we discussed also last time, longer decision-making cycles and reduced investment appetite.

Before we move into the details of the financial side, as always, I would like to give you an update on a couple of key projects what we did in the last quarter. Starting from the left side, that's the European Patent Office in Munich, where we also completed next to the first phase, the second phase in close collaboration with our strong network and lighting designers. Below that, an example of the office here in Barcelona, where we once again have demonstrated our expertise in creating high-quality and contemporary work environments. So if you look at the right side, and you see here the Festhalle in Bern, Switzerland. That's the new Festhalle venue that have been created for the BERNEXPO site that moves people culturally, economically and socially. And here, Zumtobel will deliver the complete lighting solutions as the overall lighting partner for Bern covering all areas from the concert hall and the foyer to the conference rooms.

Data center remains a key growth driver for us, and you see it here on the example of Amazon, where we did again a tailor-made facility for Amazon with our tailor-made products. And finally, to conclude, an example of a store here, the Levi's store in Paris. This project, again, demonstrates the competence in our retail, creating really this brand-enhancing retail environment that combines visual comfort, efficiency and architectural integration.

Before we go into the numbers, just as we have passed now the Olympics in Italy, I would like to highlight what we did over there because this is really something where technology, sustainability and the brand come together. And I can proudly say out of the 7 events or the 7 places and venues we, as the Zumtobel Group have been involved in 4. You see it here on the picture. One is the Predazzo Ski Jumping Stadium. The other one is the sliding center in Cortina. And then in Südtirol Anterselva, the arena for the biathlon and then in the fourth one, the arena of Santa Giulia.

For the Zumtobel Group, these games are more than a project. They are the opportunity to showcase how advanced lighting can enhance performance and improve the spectator and broadcast experience and set new benchmarks in efficiency and sustainability. And the strategic impact extends well beyond the event itself. Visibility on such a global stage strengthen us in the brand positioning and open door for new projects around the globe in the years to come.

On Slide 5 now, let me give you an overview before Thomas goes into the details on the financial performance of the first 9 months, a period that was characterized by, as I said, already the uncertainty in the economy and a weak market environment across the board. And you see this reflected also in the performance. The revenue for the group declined by 6.4% to EUR 828 million -- from EUR 828 million to EUR 775 million. On the segment level, the picture is as follows: Lighting segment generated EUR 618 million, while the revenue of the Components segment remains weak at amount EUR 200 million. And the adjusted EBIT at EUR 32.2 million, which corresponds now to an EBIT margin of 4. 2%. The figures clearly show that we are still facing the variety of challenges, which makes it particularly important to focus on the resilience and sustainability within Zumtobel Group. And that, of course, also includes what we reported, the ongoing review of our cost structures.

This picture, you know we are continuing to work on these 3 pillars, the lean organization, the streamlined processes in the shared service center for the next year budget. We have also a quite substantial increase of functions in the shared service. You know that are both in Portugal and also in Serbia in 2 locations, Belgrade and in Niš. And we do target to save EUR 40 million to EUR 50 million by '28, '29 with a portion coming in within this fiscal year and then basically the next 2 years to come. But the issue is that we are now building up the structure in the shared service center before we can transfer all this.

But I also wanted to emphasize, this is not just a cost-cutting exercise. It's about optimization and improving of our setup in the future to get leaner, more customer focused, so in our overall commercial organization. We are convinced, ladies and gentlemen, that these measures that we have introduced will strengthen our company in the future, especially hopefully, within the next quarters, the better market environment so that we are positioned here for the future.

And with that, I would like to hand over to Thomas, who will then go through the Q3 results in detail.

Thank you, Alfred. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Let me start with the Lighting segment. Q3 revenues in the Lighting segment amounted to EUR 190 million and were 3% below the previous year. Germany, Austria, France and U.K. recorded lower volumes, coupled with price pressure. However, positive volume contributions were recorded in the Southern and Eastern Europe region, highlighted by Italy and Hungary, along with positive growth in Switzerland. Adjusted EBIT in the Lighting segment increased from EUR 1.9 million to EUR 7.2 million. Our adjusted EBIT margin increased to 3.8% Lower material costs and the decline in personnel expenses more than offset the decline in revenues. Please keep in mind for comparative purposes that this year's research subsidy of EUR 1.7 million was recorded in Q2, whereas last year, this was recorded in Q3.

Let me move to the Components segment. Revenues in the Components segment declined by 10.4% to EUR 62 million in the third quarter. The difficult economic and geopolitical environment led to declining sales and also increasing pressure on prices. Adjusted EBIT in the Components segment totaled minus EUR 2 million. The adjusted EBIT margin stood at minus 3.2%. Lower material and transportation costs as well as lower personnel expenses were unable to offset the decline in revenues. Again, please keep in mind for comparative purposes that this year's research subsidy of EUR 1.8 million was recorded in Q2, whereas last year's Q3 figures included this research subsidy of the same amount.

Slide 9 show the Q3 results for the group. Revenues in the third quarter declined by 5.2% to EUR 237.4 million, mainly as a result of declining volumes and price pressure. Adjusted EBIT stood at EUR 0.6 million compared with minus EUR 0.2 million in the third quarter last year. Adjusted EBIT amounted to 0.3%. Overall, lower material costs, lower personnel expenses more than offset the negative impact from declining volumes. As already mentioned for the segments, this year's research subsidy of EUR 3.5 million at group level was recorded in Q2, whereas last year's figures included the research subsidy in Q3.

Let's move to the EBIT bridge. Looking at the adjusted EBIT bridge, we start with the prior year adjusted EBIT of EUR 41 million. The negative revenue impact totaled EUR 38.5 million with the decline primarily caused by volume reductions, which is about 2/3 and to a lesser extent, by price pressure around about 1/3. Looking at our COGS, lower material costs and lower personnel expenses had positive impact of EUR 22.3 million. SG&A and research costs made a positive contribution to results, mainly due to lower personnel expenses. As a result, adjusted EBIT decreased to EUR 32.2 million.

Slide 11 provides you with the information on our income statement. As I mentioned before, our adjusted EBIT stood at EUR 32.2 million. Special effects were negative at EUR 12.7 million. They include restructuring costs mainly in connection with the closure of our U.S. production sites and efficiency -- our efficiency program. In addition, the special effects recognized in Components segment reported in the second quarter include the impairment of goodwill, which was about EUR 2 million, impairment losses of capitalized development projects, EUR 2.7 million and on the other side, an investment premium of positive EUR 1.4 million in Portugal. After deduction of these special effects, our EBIT totaled EUR 19.5 million.

Our financial results amounted to minus EUR 9.5 million and net financing costs amounted to minus EUR 6.9 million. Other financial income and expenses totaled minus EUR 2.6 million and included the interest expense for pension obligations, FX and hedging valuation. After the deduction of income taxes, our net profit for the first 9 months amounted to EUR 9 million. As a consequence, earnings per share equaled EUR 0.22. Let's now move to the next slide, the cash flow statement.

Cash flow from operating results fell year-on-year from EUR 69.2 million to EUR 64.6 million, mainly due to a decline in sales. The change in other operating items amounted to minus EUR 36.4 million and resulted mainly from lower provisions for variable salary components and restructuring. Cash flow from operating activities stood at EUR 36.8 million in the first 9 months versus EUR 48.8 million last year. Cash flow from investing activities amounted to minus EUR 31.4 million in the reporting period. In addition to investments in property, plant and equipment, capitalized development costs of EUR 11.5 million are also included here. And as a result, free cash flow equaled EUR 5.4 million versus EUR 15.6 million last year.

Cash flow from financing activities amounted to EUR 10 million for the first 9 months versus minus EUR 36.3 million last year. The change compared to the prior year is primarily related to 2 factors. First, the increased utilization of the syndicated loan agreement; and second, the loan from the European Investment Bank. A reduced dividend distribution also contributed to this effect.

Let me finish with Slide 13 and some comments on our balance sheet. The balance sheet structure remains stable. The equity ratio increased to 43.4%. Net debt rose in comparison with the year-end close to EUR 131 million. Our debt coverage ratio is at 1.59.

And with this, I hand back to Alfred.

Before turning to our outlook, let me again show you the picture on the latest developments on the Euro construct data. The overall picture remains consistent with that what we have outlined in the last quarter. And really after several very challenging years, Europe's nonresidential construction sector is stabilizing. with 2026 still expected to mark the beginning of the gradual recovery. You see it here on the picture with new build of 2% growth and the renovation of 1.5%. And looking ahead, we will anticipate improving the momentum, particularly in the field of education and health care, while the segments like office and logistics remain comparatively weaker. The expected recovery continues to support by the rebound of new build activities following the prolonged period of construction completed by the structural resilient renovation demand.

But on the same time, regional disparities persist growth dynamic vary across the different countries where we are operating and the subsectors and the visibility in some segments remains limited. Renovation, however, continues to benefit from the energy-efficient initiatives, the ESG-related requirements and ongoing modernization needs.

In summary, the market environment has not changed since our last update, but the direction is gradually improving even if the pace of recovery remains moderate and uneven across the different countries. Against this backdrop, our strategic priorities remain unchanged. We are focusing on capturing renovation opportunities with our products and the positioning of the Zumtobel Group to benefit from the anticipating upturn in nonresidential construction. As you know, and we say this every time, the lighting industry typically lags in the construction cycle. So we expect any sustained market recovery will translate into an increased demand by our solution within a certain time delay.

This brings me now to the outlook. The overall market environment remains challenging and the geopolitical instability continues to create uncertainty, especially after last weekend in a market where we are quite intense. We are seeing customers adopt a more cautious approach with longer decision cycles and more frequent project delays. With the measures what we have taken and the efficiency program now in place, we have set a clear course to position the company for sustainable growth and continued innovation. And with a focused strategy and decision execution, we are responding to the ongoing shifts in the markets and creating the foundation for a resilient performance in the years ahead.

With reference to these uncertainties, we are maintaining our guidance for the revenue development. We continue to expect a revenue decline in a single-digit percentage for the entire financial year. Previously, we expected the adjusted EBIT margin to range between 1% and 4%, and we are now providing more precise guidance from 2.5% to 4%. We outlined in the quarter 2 that the current performance trends suggest they're tracking more towards the upper third. But obviously, with the now arising crisis in the Middle East, where typically the months February, March and April. So the last -- our last fiscal year quarter are the strongest one and creates additional uncertainty. The planned CapEx for the year amounts to approximately the EUR 50 million as indicated already in the last quarter.

Before we conclude the presentation and listening to your questions, I would like to once again extend the invitation to our investor event, what we have planned during the Light & Building Fair on March 12 in Frankfurt. We will provide an update on the current market situation, outlined how we are operating with this environment and share our outlook for the market going forward. And furthermore, you will then have the opportunity to visit all 3 our stands from the 3 brands, so Tridonic, Thorn and Zumtobel, where we showcase our latest solutions, products and innovations. And afterwards, you will be able to discuss key topics directly with Thomas and myself on the stands. So if you have time and are interested in the event and haven't signed up yet, please feel free to do so by clicking the link or scanning the QR code.

So with that, I would like to thank you for your attention. And now Thomas and myself are happy to take your questions. Thank you for listening.

[Operator Instructions]

The first question comes from the line of Michael Marschallinger from Erste Group.

I have 2 questions, please. Firstly, on the components first quarter development. Could you please provide us a breakdown of volumes pricing and also in terms of price pressure, what you are seeing currently on the market? And how does it compare to the previous quarters? And what are your expectations for fourth quarter? And this already brings me to my second question to your new revised adjusted EBIT guidance. This guidance still is a wide range for the fourth quarter from minus to positive fourth quarter. Could you maybe walk us through your assumptions for the last quarter? And did I understand correctly that the lower end assumes a longer Middle East conflict?

Let me start with the second question. You are absolutely right. Obviously, from the development, the 2.5% would be on the lower end of the quarter 4 results. We have a couple of special effects in there. As you know, we are in the middle of the fair time. We have participated now in 2 fairs. This one -- where we extended again the invitation the Light & Building is coming, what is basically having the cost in quarter 4. But the main reason is really the situation what we are having in Middle East, Michael, as you know, that's quite a significant market for us, the Emirates and Saudi Arabia, especially. And the March and April typically calls for something like 60% of the turnover, what we do. And obviously, here, we have the huge uncertainty what happens to that because currently, the products what are on the chip, we do not know when they will be accepted and more is to come. And that basically led us to this guidance.

Maybe the first one, Thomas can answer. Yes on the pricing.

The revenues in the Components segment declined by 10.4%. 4 percentage points out of this 10.4% are price pressure. The rest comes from volume mix and FX. And the price pressure in the Components segment was over the year, nearly the same. Nevertheless, we see that the price pressure goes down a little bit as competitors are starting to raise prices. They had lowered their prices more than Tridonic before and now they are raising prices again. So we expect that the price pressure declines.

[Operator Instructions]

The next question comes from the line of Emanuele Sartori from Kepler Cheuvreux.

Congrats for the results. I have just one question for now from my side. Just interested on the verticals here. Obviously, you mentioned education and health care, which might be a positive for you. I'm just wondering if you're seeing any other verticals holding up. I'm just thinking that you are now at the London fair, of course, focused on data centers. So I'm just interested to see the pipeline into Q4. But also in the next fiscal year?

No, Emanuele, you're absolutely right. Obviously, education and health care is one of the verticals where we expect growth because I maybe was not 100% clear. But when it comes to investments where we see it, a lot of it is coming currently from the push programs from the government in the, let me say, government sector. And obviously, that's then something where we are very well positioned to do so. But of course, we have other verticals. One, I think we mentioned it in one of the previous calls, is the whole sports illumination. We are now FIFA qualified as one of the few suppliers. I mean that's why I intentionally mentioned that what we have done in Italy because that's, of course, a lot of reference projects for stadium, and that's a very, very global business. So we are not so dependent only on the trends what we are seeing from most of other businesses in Europe.

Data center, that's still booming where we are -- where we -- especially in Middle East, for example, we are also going in this whole tunnel illumination what goes in. I forgot to mention, I think last time we had it on the picture, we have now all launched on our portfolio for our trunking system, which is the most successful product for Zumtobel going into retail and into industry, so like warehouses with the best price performance ratio. And we expect that this will have quite a significant impact in '26, '27. So a couple of products. And obviously, Emanuele, I think if you're coming to visit us at the show, you see first time how we are launching this and positioning in this and there are a couple of promising growth drivers moving forward.

[Operator Instructions]

Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question. I would now like to turn the conference back over to Alfred Felder for any closing remarks.

Yes. Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen, for listening. I'm looking forward for those of you to meet you personally in Frankfurt together with Thomas and with Eric. I think we have a couple of extremely interesting things to show where you will learn that we have driven our innovations, and we are ready for the, let me say, ramp up again if the economy starts to pickup. With that, thank you for listening. Thank you for joining the call and have a nice day.

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to Zumtobel conference call on the first half and the second quarter results of our 2025-'26 financial year. With me on the call are Alfred Felder, our CEO; and Thomas Erath, our CFO. Alfred will walk you through the highlights, while Thomas will present and discuss the financial performance. After the presentation, both gentlemen will be available to answer your questions.

In case you have not a copy of the report and the presentation, you may find both documents for download on our web page. After the call, a playback of this conference call will be available on our web page as well.

And with this, I hand over to Alfred.

Yes. Good morning, and welcome, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for joining us today for the first half year results. The quarter 2, what we just have closed was a continuation of quarter 1 in terms of challenges in the market, again, with low activities, investments decisions and processes partly pass and cost and therefore, a lot of project postponement.

But before I go into the numbers and then in details, my colleague, Thomas, I would like to, as usual, share with you a couple of highlights illustrating the bandwidth, what we do and the activities what we have in the different fields.

On the upper left, you see the Haus zum Falken train station, which was designed by the star architect, Santiago Calatrava. And here, we have illuminated entrance with the seamless CIELUMA light ceiling product. what basically showcase this entrance.

The second one, the APO BANK is a very typical example of refurbishment. This we have done in the past with our conventional technology. And now it's a turnkey where we have used our refurbishment packages, including the whole controls as well as the service, a typical example what we are running across Europe in many, many cases.

The next one is one of the key highlights. Obviously, you know that in 2026, now in a couple of weeks, we will have the Winter Olympic Games in Italy. And here, this is an example of the stadium of Biathlon in South Tyrol in Anterselva. And here, to meet the Olympic requirements, the entire complex has been upgraded.

A key innovation is our Thorn Altis Generation 5 floodlight and enhances really in every detail the competition and elevates the experience for spectators on site and worldwide.

This project is just one of what we have been contributing in 2026 Olympic Games. After the competitions, we look forward to sharing more and additional updates and actions on the photos of the different stadiums.

An example of our strategy in terms of sustainability, circular lighting was at PENNY shop in Austria. What is here so special about this project, it's the combination of a high system efficiency, the controls and what significantly improved the energy efficiency. The products, what we have installed here is our high-running product, TECTON 2, so the continuous roll lighting system, what we just launched in May this year and fitted with the VIVO spotlights.

You see for the ancillary areas and external lighting, the solution for Thorn were installed, so that includes the complete indoor and outdoor illumination what we have done here. Another key highlight where we are very proud is the Fish Market in Sydney, Australia, one of the iconic buildings where we did the whole roof architectural illumination. It's really a unique master piece done here.

That's the new world-class Sydney Fish Market creates a vibrant hat into the city. And with the commitment to sustainability, the project here minimizes the environmental impact to the responsible construction practices and energy -- innovative energy solutions.

So with that, I would like to give you the overview on Slide #4 on our financial performance for the first half for the fiscal year '25-'26. Obviously, as I said at the beginning, again, a period characterized by economic uncertainty, a very weak market environment with a lot of postponements and cancellations of certain projects.

These conditions are reflected here in our performance. You see the revenue declined from EUR 577 million to EUR 537 million, a minus of 6.9%. And at the segment level, the picture looks as follows. The first half, Lighting segment generated almost EUR 429 million, while the revenue of Components segment around EUR 138 million. The group EBIT stood at EUR 31.6 million, which corresponds to an adjusted EBIT margin of 5.9%.

The figures clearly show that our company is still confronted with a variety of challenges, which makes it particularly important to focus on resilience and sustainability within the group. And this also includes, of course, the ongoing review of the cost structures.

In Page 5, you see again the slide what we presented last time where we need to take the action in basically accelerate this efficiency program, what we have started in quarter 1, focusing on SG&A footprint. And you see here, that's the slide what we showed also last time with a saving of EUR 30 million to EUR 40 million by the '28-'29 financial year. 80% of those savings we plan to achieve already by '27, '28.

The main levers here, as you see, are the leaner organization, the expansion of our shared service centers, both in Serbia. In Serbia, we have 2 locations, one is Nis and one is Belgrade and also in Portugal, followed by further automation.

As indicated in the last call, we have also now in the last couple of months and weeks, reviewed our operations, the R&D and the procurement divisions. And this comprehensive analysis helped us to identify additional opportunities, and we have prepared actions for this.

And these measures are projected to deliver cost savings year-by-year with a total impact of approximately EUR 10 million in the '28, '29 financial year. So you see it here on top of the bars with the blue bar here. Our objective is not to simply achieve short-term cost reductions, but to deliver a structural improvement to our margins and sustainably strengthen the competitive position.

By strategically expanding our global business centers in Serbia and Portugal, the group, reinforcing the commitment of combining innovation with efficiency and therefore, strengthen the key value drivers to underpin the sustainability profitability and long-term creation of shareholder value.

Looking ahead, we will better positioned to consolidate our core capabilities, streamline the process and especially shorten the development cycles. And so we expect to see the first quantifiable effects for the initiated measures by the end of this fiscal year. And over the next 4 years, the savings will be increased steadily to a total volume of approximately now EUR 40 million to EUR 50 million in '28, '29.

Ladies and gentlemen, we are convinced that the measures we have introduced will strengthen the company for the future. And in this way, we are meeting the current challenges in the market, which is impacting the whole industry and also prepared for the hopefully upside coming when the recession comes to an end.

And with that, I would like to hand over to Thomas, who will explain now the Q2 and also the first half results in detail.

Thank you, Alfred. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. A warm welcome from my side. Let me start with the Lighting segment. Q2 revenues in the Lighting segment amounted to EUR 218 million and were 5% below the previous year. Volume decreases were recorded in the U.K., APAC, Germany, Nordic and France and were also coupled with price pressure.

However, positive volume contributions were recorded in the Southern and Eastern Europe regions, highlighted by Italy, along with positive growth in Switzerland. Adjusted EBIT in the Lighting segment increased from EUR 17.8 million to EUR 22.3 million. Our adjusted EBIT margin increased to 10.2%. Lower material caused a decline in personnel expenses, mainly due to lower incentives and the earlier payment of the research subsidy in the amount of EUR 1.7 million had a positive impact on our adjusted EBIT.

Let's move to the Components segment. Revenue in the Components segment declined by 12.8% to EUR 67.2 million in the second quarter. The difficult economic and geopolitical environment led to declining sales across all regions and also increased the price pressure.

Adjusted EBIT in the Components segment totaled EUR 5.6 million in the second quarter. The adjusted EBIT margin stood at 8.4% Lower material and transportation costs as well as the early payment of the research incentive in the amount of EUR 1.8 million were unable to offset the decline in revenues.

Slide 9 shows you the Q2 results for the group. Revenues in the second quarter declined by 6% to EUR 271.2 million, mainly as a result of declining volumes and price pressure. Adjusted EBIT increased to EUR 25 million and the adjusted EBIT margin rose to 9.2%.

Overall, lower material costs, lower personnel expenses and the early payment of the research subsidy in total EUR 3.5 million had a positive effect on our adjusted EBIT. Slide 10. Looking at the adjusted EBIT bridge, we start with the prior year half year result of EUR 41.2 million. The negative revenue impacted totaled EUR 27.2 million, with the decline primarily driven by volume reductions and to a lesser extent, price pressure.

Looking at our COGS, lower material costs and lower personnel expenses had a positive impact of EUR 9.8 million. SG&A and research costs made a positive contribution to the result, mainly due to lower personnel expenses and the previously mentioned early payment of the research subsidy in the amount of EUR 3.5 million.

Adjusted EBIT decreased to EUR 31.6 million. Slide 11 provides you with information on our income statement. As I mentioned, our adjusted EBIT stood at EUR 31.6 million. Special effects were negative at EUR 10.8 million. They include restructuring costs in connection with the closure of the U.S. production.

In addition, the special effects recognized in the Components segment in the second quarter include the impairment of goodwill that was EUR 2 million, impairment losses of capitalized development costs, EUR 2.7 million and an investment incentive received from Portuguese government of EUR 1.4 million.

After the deduction of these special effects, our EBIT totaled EUR 20.7 million. Our financial result amounted to minus EUR 5.8 million and net financing costs amounted to minus EUR 4.3 million. Other financial income and expenses totaled minus EUR 1.5 million and included the interest expense for pension obligations, FX and hedging valuation.

After deduction of income taxes, our net profit for the first half year amounted to EUR 13.5 million. As a consequence, earnings per share equaled EUR 0.32. Let's now move to the cash flow statement. Cash flow from operating results fell year-on-year from EUR 58.1 million to EUR 52.7 million, mainly due to the decline in sales.

The change in the operating items amounted to minus EUR 20.2 million and resulted mainly from the settlement of accruals for variable salary components. Cash flow from operating activities stood at EUR 35.5 million in the first half year '25/'26 versus EUR 33.7 million in the previous half year.

Cash flow from investing activities amounted to minus EUR 21.7 million in the reporting period. In addition to investments in property, plant and equipment, this also includes capitalized development costs of EUR 8.8 million. As a result, free cash flow equaled EUR 13.7 million versus EUR 13 million last year. Cash flow from financing activities amounted to EUR 8.6 million for the first half year versus minus EUR 20.6 million last year.

The change compared to the prior year is primarily related to 2 factors: the increased utilization of first, the syndicated loan agreement; and second, the loan from the European Investment Bank. A reduced dividend distribution also contributed to this effect.

Let me finish with Slide 13 and give you some comments on our balance sheet. The balance sheet structure remains stable. The equity ratio is almost flat at 42.8%. Net debt is also flat in comparison with the year-end close standing at EUR 120 million. Our debt coverage ratio is at 1.47.

And with this, I hand back to Alfred.

Thank you, Thomas. Before now turning into our outlook, let me first share some key sector insights from the latest Euro construct release, what we have received in November 26, so just a few weeks ago. After almost 3 very challenging years, we are now seeing the first signs of recoveries in Europe non-residential construction sector, especially in the new build and also in the renovation.

Looking ahead, construction activity is expected to pick up, particularly in the education and health care sectors, where fortunately, we are very well positioned, while growth in storage facilities and office buildings is rather low.

The recovery is driven by a rebound of the new construction after several years of construction, while renovation continues to be steady in an upward trend. In short, there are early signs of recovery in the construction markets, even if the base differs across the different countries and regions. The renovation growth supported by the energy efficiency upgrades, ESG requirements and modernization needs. And the overall outlook, therefore, is positive, but uneven, as you see from the chart here across the different countries.

Our strategic focus will be on leveraging opportunities in renovation and positioning Zumtobel Group to benefit from the rebound in the nonresidential construction. As you know, the lighting industry typically comes later in the construction cycle. So the positive momentum will reach us here with some delay.

And this brings me to the outlook. The overall market environment remains challenging for the rest of our financial year and also into the calendar year 2026. The geopolitical instability will continue to create uncertainty. And we are seeing that the customers are adopting more cautious approach with longer decision-making cycles, a lot of postponements of projects, what we see in the market.

And this, of course, is impacting our business. With the measure we have taken and the efficiency program, what I shared with you now in place, we have set a clear course to position our company for sustainable growth and continued innovation. And through the focused strategy and decision execution, we are now responding to the ongoing shifts in our markets in the different countries and establishing the foundation for resilient performance for the years ahead.

And against this backdrop, we are confirming our guidance. We continue to expect a single-digit percentage decline of our revenues compared with the previous year. And therefore, our guidance for the adjusted EBIT remains unchanged between 1% and 4%. However, based on our current assessment, we anticipate finishing the year towards the upper end of the range rather than on the lower end and the planned CapEx for the year stands at approximately EUR 50 million.

As you know, we are just completing the investment now for our trunking system, the TECTON 2, which consumes quite a large amount of this CapEx. Before we conclude the presentation and open the Q&A session, I would like to extend an invitation to an investor event we will be hosting during the Light Building Fair on March 26, the biggest worldwide lighting fair where we are showcasing.

We will provide you here with an update on the current market situation, outline how we are operating with this environment and, of course, share an outlook how we move forward. And furthermore, you will have the opportunity to visit all the 3 stands at the fair, where we will showcase the latest product innovations from Tridonic, from Thorn and from Zumtobel. And afterwards, we will be able to discuss key topics with Thomas and myself directly at our stands.

So please save the date, and we will share further details with you at the beginning of 2026. With this, I would like to thank you for your attention. And now Thomas and myself are happy to take your questions. Thank you for listening.

[Operator Instructions] The first question comes from Michael Marschallinger with Erste Group.

Congrats to the good results. Firstly, on the guidance, the adjusted EBIT margin guidance, you already mentioned upper range is more likely. I'm just curious why you confirmed it. 1% and 2% doesn't really make -- doesn't -- seems impossible. This would mean negative H2, 3% would mean a flat H2. So why not just confirm this increase it to 4% at the moment? And do you maybe see also a possibility that we go above 4% even this year given the cost savings in H2 that you mentioned?

Thank you, Michael. No, very good questions. Obviously, clear, we are currently above this guidance after the Q2. But I think what Thomas shared, we have in the Q2 results also this extraordinary topics in with the R&D funding and also some funding what we got in Portugal, what we had last year with the exception of Portugal in our Q3.

Typically, our Q3 is a challenging one with the Christmas period. So that we are very careful with that one. And the Q4 needs to be a rebound in order to confirm. Currently, we are seeing some first sign of life, but it's very, very difficult to predict.

As I said in a couple of statements during the presentation, customers are constantly postponing projects. So obviously, if they shift then into the next quarter, then we have a risk that the growth or let me say, the less decline is not coming in quarter 4, and it's helping us in Q1, but not in quarter 4.

So that's basically what we have. And obviously, if everything goes right, where we fight very hard, it could also be a possibility to go above the 4%.

Okay. Understood. But then you would, as you said, need volume growth already in the fourth quarter.

Exactly. That's the big challenge.

Yes.

Project pipeline is there. But just to give you a little bit of an indication, we are really having a double-digit million project confirmed, partly shifted. And if the shift, especially in the quarter 4 is 2 to 3 weeks, which is normal nowadays, then we are automatically ending to have this revenue in quarter 1.

And may I add, we have also special costs in the second half. There is the light and building, and these are tremendous costs in the region of EUR 4 million and above if you include all the traveling costs.

Okay. Understood. And then the second question, I think most was already answered with the top line development. Would you expect third quarter, there was already a low base last year, EUR 250 million or maybe some plus or in the top line or also a further decline?

What you see, what Thomas has presented, we have been able to improve a little bit on the Lighting segment when it comes to, let me say, the negative growth. Quarter 1 was 7 minus, quarter 2 was 5 minus. We see here a certain, let me say, stabilization. But on the other hand, you see that the components business has had quarter 2 below the EUR 70 million.

And we are not seeing currently with the high volatility in the market that this will change. So obviously, it depends heavily also on our revenues, what are coming from the components business. In the Lighting segment, we believe, and you're right, that we might have a chance to go slightly above the Q3.

But currently, the run rate is in a similar direction like you see it on our -- on about Page 7.

The next question comes from Patrick Steiner with ODDO.

Patrick Steiner speaking. Congrats on the good results. I have 3 questions left from my side. We'll take them one by one, if that's okay for you. Firstly, on the project postponements and cancellations, which you've mentioned.

Could you give us a bit more information on which areas of the sector, which geographic regions we're talking specifically?

It's typically across the board. As you know, Patrick, we do have framework contracts with bigger customers in the retail segment in the automotive segment. Here, it's more that this framework contracts are not honored by the corresponding projects. That's topic number one.

Topic number two, postponements are mainly coming in the industry segment. Automotive is one what is challenging right now, but also in some of our industrial customers. And typically, the postponement of this project or let me say, the reliability of the projects coming on time as planned is higher in the DACH region or Italy and Benelux. And when it comes to Eastern Europe, U.K. and France, that's a little bit more fluctuating.

Where we have stable project setup is everything in the new technologies. So like lights for data centers, that's very often even more challenging that we have to deliver earlier also in the health and in the investments of education but are partly done by national governments.

Right. That's really helpful. On the cost savings effects for this year, you stated you see quantifiable effect for this year. Could you give us maybe a number or a run rate for this year?

For this year, we expect about EUR 4 million to EUR 5 million net savings.

All right. And that's not a run rate basically. That's the real effect on this year.

That's a real effect.

Yes. So Thomas was mentioning, we have also the restructuring, right? But it's really the net effect on top of this restructuring.

Okay. Great. Last question, just a clarification, if I understood this right. You said EUR 3.5 million of research subsidy in total on group level in the second quarter. And this is including Portugal.

No, Portugal is extra. We showed the subsidy in Portugal under restructuring because this was -- we handed in the request for the subsidy 6 or 7 years ago. So we said this is not a returning subsidy like in Austria, you get it every year. This is a one-timer, and that's why we disclosed it under exceptional items.

Patrick, you have this on the Page #11, so you have the details. So the subsidy of the EUR 3.5 million is both for components, Tridonic and for lighting brands.

We have no more questions. And at this time, I would like to turn the conference back over to Alfred Felder for any closing remarks.

Yes. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much for listening. Thank you very much for your questions. Again, I would like to repeat my invitation to Light & Building. Eric will send out. It gives you the opportunity not only to -- that we are able to share with you how we are moving into our quarter 4, but also showcasing how we drive forward the innovations to concur the market in the professional illumination.

Thank you very much for listening, and have a great day.

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to Zumtobel Group's conference call on the Q1 results for the 2025-'26 financial year. With me on the call are Alfred Felder, our CEO; and Thomas Erath, our CFO. Alfred will walk you through the highlights of the quarter, while Thomas will discuss the financial performance. After the presentation, both gentlemen will be available to answer your questions. In case you have not a copy of the report and the presentation, you may find both documents for download on our web page. After the call, a playback of this conference call will be available on our web page as well.

And with this, I hand over to Alfred.

Good morning. Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for joining us today for our Q1 '25-'26 call. This first quarter was again not an easy one for us. Market environment remains very, very challenging. In addition, the geopolitical environment also difficult. And the demand of the new construction, especially in our core markets in Europe is weak, triggered by a lot of shifts and delays. And obviously, that has resulted in figures what we will show in a minute.

But before I go into this, as usual, I would like to share with you a couple of highlights, what shows that our strategy, what we have implemented in the beginning of '24 in the different growth areas is materializing. And here a couple of projects. One brought in our headquarter city of Dornbirn, where we are the lighting solution provider, where we have installed the state-of-the-art IoT connected luminaires based on the Saga sockets with our [indiscernible] ready, so the connected solution. It's the product what we have from Dornbirn, the Isaro Pro, what is installed here across the city.

Another one, which is part of the core strategy growing in the arena in the sports and here an indoor stadium in Dresden equipped with our Altis, where we have now all type of products, including full color comes with DMX controls, includes a complete turnkey solution with commissioning involved.

The next one is a shopping center in Belgrade in Serbia, where we have our factories both for components and luminaires, a refurbishment project with really our complete bandwidth of products called [indiscernible], where we have installed.

On the bottom left here, the Campus Founder Lab in Heilbronn in Germany, innovation campus. Here, this is a typical high-end brand Zumtobel product with our high-end products [indiscernible], also including the whole emergency products.

And last but not least, in the Italian part of Switzerland in Bellinzona, the fortress here, which is a UNESCO world heritage, where we have done refurbishment products. So the outdated sodium vapor lens from the '90s were replaced by energy-efficient [indiscernible] contrast LED spotlights and the result achieved has been the close collaboration what we had with the local authorities, the lighting designers and the technology suppliers.

And with that, on Page 4, let me just give you an overview, and Thomas will then share the details on our financial performance in the first quarter, a period that, as expected, was strongly characterized by our economic uncertainty in the persistently weak market environment. These conditions were also reflected in our business performance. So we have a revenue declined by 7.8% to EUR 266 million. And on the segments, you see the Lighting segment generated a revenue of EUR 210 million, while the revenues of the components remained at EUR 70 million, so which means almost 12% below the previous year quarter 1.

Adjusted EBIT at EUR 6.6 million, corresponding to adjusted EBIT of 2.5%. And the figures clearly show that the challenges facing our company remain strong. It is therefore particularly important that we continue to focus on resilience and sustainability within the entire group across the segments. And that includes also, of course, the review of our cost structures.

And as part of this, you see on Page 5, we have decided to take the strategic decision to close our unprofitably relatively small U.S. production site in Highland in New York, so Upstate New York, 2 hours from New York City. This measure is part of our Focus+ strategy, what we have revised last year and updated. It will allow us now to focus strongly on our core markets and align our global production network accordingly. And this we will do relatively short term so that the measures are taking -- are contributing to our results.

Despite this planned closure, our sales presence in U.S. will remain intact. We aim to continue to provide reliable service to our customers, especially on our international accounts, what we are servicing across all the continents, including the planners, the OEM, as I said, and the architects. And with this, the American markets where we have been mainly with our brand, Zumtobel, we will serve out of our global production network.

But also let me turn to a more long-term program. As part of our updated corporate strategy, we analyzed in our first stage our global SG&A costs in an initial phase. And based on this analysis, we are currently developing a global package of measure that will be implemented by the end of the fiscal year '28-'29. The first measures have already been defined. This aim to reduce organizational complexity, minimize the efficiency and optimize the process and overhead, increase decision speed and therefore, enable more customer-facing roles.

As you see here from this slide, over the next 4 years, we plan to achieve a significant cost savings in the SG&A area, and the savings will increase annually and are expected to reach a volume of EUR 30 million to EUR 40 million in the fourth year, and that is the financial year '28-'29. The main levers are the leaner organization, as I said, the expansion of our shared service centers. We have them already in Serbia in 2 locations, one in Belgrade, one in our factory location niche and in Portugal and in further process automation.

We do expect to see the first effects as early as the current fiscal year with 80% of the savings to be then achieved in '27-'28. The associated restructuring costs will be in the single-digit million range annually up to the including '28-'29 fiscal year. In the Phase 2, what we are currently starting, our efficiency program will also involve the review the areas of operations, purchasing and R&D. And this program will build the foundation for steering our company and our employees safely through these challenging times.

At the same time, we will ensure that we are well prepared for future development. This also applies to the economic recovery that the industry is hoping for, especially we will see it later in the page, the signs are turning a little bit more positive for the next 18 months, and we are already positioning our company to strengthen its competitive position.

Ladies and gentlemen, with these measures, we are convinced that we can strengthen our company in the future and sustainably long term and be ready for hopefully the ramp-up of the business with a better cost structure with a leaner organization.

And with this, I would like to hand over to Thomas, who will explain the Q1 results in more detail.

Thank you, Alfred. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. A warm welcome from my side. Let me start with the Lighting segment. Q1 revenues in the Lighting segment amounted to EUR 210.7 million and were 7% below the previous year. The sales increases in parts of Southern and Eastern Europe were unable to offset the negative developments in the U.K. as well as in the Asia Pacific region. The fixed cost savings were not high enough to offset the decline in sales. Adjusted EBIT in the Lighting segment decreased from EUR 20.1 million to EUR 11.4 million. Our adjusted EBIT margin declined to 5.4%.

Let's move to the Components segment. On Slide 8, you see revenues in the Components segment declined by 11.8% to EUR 70.9 million. The difficult economic environment led to declining sales across all regions. Adjusted EBIT in the Components segment declined to EUR 1.3 million in the first quarter. The adjusted EBIT margin stood at 1.9%.

Slide 9 shows the overall Q1 results for the group. Revenues in the first quarter declined by 7.8% to EUR 266.4 million, mainly as a result of declining revenues in the U.K. and weak sales performance in Asia Pacific. Adjusted EBIT decreased from EUR 20.2 million to EUR 6.6 million. The negative revenue development had an adverse impact of EUR 14.1 million. The adjusted EBIT margin was at 2.5%.

Slide 10 provides you with more information on our income statement. As indicated, adjusted EBIT stood at EUR 6.6 million. Special effects were negative EUR 7.4 million and mainly include the cost of the closure of our U.S. plant. After deduction of these special effects, our EBIT totaled minus EUR 0.8 million. Our financial results amounted to minus EUR 3 million. Net financing costs amounted to minus EUR 2 million and other financial income and expenses totaled minus EUR 1 million.

They include interest expense for pension obligations, FX and hedging valuation. After the deduction of income taxes, our net profit for the first 3 months amounted to minus EUR 4 million. As a consequence, earnings per share were at minus EUR 0.09.

Let's move to our cash flow statement. Cash flow from operating results fell from EUR 32.4 million to EUR 12.8 million. The change in other operating items amounted to minus EUR 11.8 million, mainly this is the result of leasing accruals for variable salary components. Cash flow from operating activities stood at EUR 1.3 million in the first quarter. Cash flow from investing activities amounted to minus EUR 11.9 million for the reporting period.

In addition to investments in property, plant and equipment, this also includes capitalized development costs of EUR 5.3 million. As a result, free cash flow equaled minus EUR 10.6 million. Cash flow from financing activities amounted to EUR 12 million for the full year.

Let me finish with Slide 12 and give you some comments on our balance sheet. The balance sheet structure remains stable. The equity ratio is almost flat with 41.9%. Net debt increased to EUR 134.4 million. This figure includes the extension of the Spennymoor lease agreement by a further 10 years. Our debt coverage ratio is at 1.98.

And with this, I hand back to Alfred.

This slide, you know already the current market outlook. Before I'm turning into that, let me share some sector insights. We do see after 2 very challenging years, first signs of recovery in Europe, especially on the nonresidential sector. You see it here on the graph from Euroconstruct published in June. And there's a progress in both the renovations and the new build, although the growth remains different in the different countries in Europe.

Looking ahead, construction actively is expected to pick up, particularly in the education, health care sectors, while the growth in storage facilities starting to slow. We are still seeing momentum, especially when it comes to data center builds and the new technologies based on artificial intelligence. In short, we are seeing early signals of recovery in the construction market, even if the base differs across the regions. And our strategic focus will be on leveraging these opportunities in renovation and position our group both from components and the lighting level in this area.

And let me add, the lighting industry typically comes late in the construction cycle. So the positive momentum will reach us with some delay, especially if I'm referring to the huge investment plan what the German government has issued. Ladies and gentlemen, the overall market and here on Page 14 remains highly challenging with the geopolitical instabilities, what we are all seeing, the ongoing conflicts and the rising protectionism that continues to create significant uncertainty in all our markets.

And this makes short and midterm forecasting increasingly complex with low visibility. We are seeing customers adopt a more cautious approach with longer decision-making cycles, more frequent project delays and especially on the components business with very, very short-term projects, what we see in the business. And these dynamics will have an impact on our business. But that said, there are also reasons for cautious optimism. After 2 years of recession, the European nonresidential construction sectors is explained, showing signs of moderate growth. And therefore, we believe we can participate.

Taking all this into account, we are anticipating a single-digit percentage decline in the revenues compared to the previous year. Our priority is clear. We are driving operational efficiency, delivering on long-term initiatives and on our updated Focus+ strategy, including the 2 I highlighted here in the start of the call. Given the current revenue pressure and the time required for our measures to take the full effect, we are expecting an adjusted EBIT margin to be in the range of 1% to 4% and continue with our planned CapEx for this year of EUR 50 million.

With that, I would like to conclude. Thank you for your attention. And Thomas and myself will be ready and happy to take your questions. Thank you for listening.

[Operator Instructions] And we have the first question coming from the line of Michael Marschallinger from Erste Group.

I got 2. Firstly, on the regional development. Your most important region, DACH, we saw some small decline in the fourth quarter, now some slight growth again in first quarter. And if I understood you correct, you see more positive on the outlook. So I assume we would this trend to continue in the next quarters. Is that correct?

Yes, thank you for your questions. That's correct. So obviously, in the DACH region, we have 2 very strong countries, which is Austria and Switzerland. And in Germany, we are seeing a slow momentum. But as indicated previously, we are late in the cycle and a lot of these investments are still to be released in construction. But especially when it comes to refurbishment, we believe that we will be able to continue with a slight recovery in the DACH.

Okay. Understood. And then secondly, on this announced restructuring measures on the Slide #6. On this listed measures, where do you see the biggest lever for the announced measures? Organization, I assume, is more footprint in reductions similar to the U.S. Is that correct? And maybe on the time line, if you can comment.

Yes. So what we have done over the summer, so from late spring to summer, we have analyzed the entire SG&A structure, which means the administrative structures in our headquarters, but as well as the sales territory. And when it comes to leaner organization, just to give you an example, we are planning more to go into the sleep country concept, which means in smaller countries, we are having then a much flatter hierarchy.

Let me say, if you have countries like Poland, Hungary, Slovakia, Czech Republic, they are under one leadership. So we are saving some costs in the leadership and having more horsepower than directly out. So the leaner organization has not to do per se with closing sites, but to be more efficient. And in the headquarter, we are, of course, looking into all the processes what we can streamline to get faster and therefore, also reduce cost.

Time line, I think you have seen it. We plan to have the first impact already in '25-'26, which is small and then the second one in '26-'27 and more or less reaching 80% of the same. So this is a EUR 30 million to EUR 40 million have been identified with clear measures, with clear, let me say, projects and the plan is now to execute it over time.

I mentioned the excellence centers, what we plan to establish more professionally in Serbia and in Portugal. And obviously, you can imagine that this will be a transformation of jobs, what we will then build up there and more or less after that, those jobs in high-cost countries will then be removed. And we are also planning to do this smoothly based on the natural fluctuation.

The next question comes from Elias New from Kepler Cheuvreux.

I hope you can hear me. My question is really on the sort of year-on-year margin bridge and sort of just trying to understand where that margin decline is coming from. Is that mostly attributable to negative volume growth? Or are there any other main drivers that you can call out?

And secondly, if we talk about volume growth, is your expectation still that we will return to growth in the second half of this fiscal year?

Well, you are right. The main driver is volume. Volume is basically the whole impact of our decline in profitability is volume.

And your second question, obviously, we do see, and I said this at the beginning, still an extreme weak demand. Like I said in the last call, nothing has changed. We believe that maybe in the second half of calendar year '26, we might see the first impact on recovery simply because we are late in the cycle. So if the German government is issuing the budgets for infrastructure, what comes earlier is refurbishment, and we believe that, that might come as early as second half of '26. So with that said, we believe it will be rather flat also in the second half of this fiscal year, both for the Components business as well as for the Lighting Solutions business.

That's very clear. And if we just return maybe to sort of the different regional trends. I mean, could you comment on what you're seeing in Europe compared to the U.S.? Because one of your competitors is speaking of a better environment in the U.S. So just wondering if that's something that you are seeing as well. And particularly, I know we spoke about the DACH region already, but maybe there are other sort of regional developments in Europe. So what you're seeing in Eastern Europe relative to Western Europe and Southern Europe?

Yes. In Eastern Europe, we are seeing a moderate, also flat development, fortunately, not shrinking. In the core countries, what we had -- so we had a very good momentum in U.K. last year, and that is easing out a little bit. So we are not seeing the growth here. Italy, okay, France, weak and also some of the Nordic territories.

As you know, our U.S. business never was big. So we are mainly there with high-end Zumtobel products for museums, art galleries, working with international architects. So it's not a substantial revenue here. And Tridonic is also having small revenues in the U.S. Of course, the U.S. market with a full portfolio of what local companies have is in a better shape than Europe, as we know economically.

Great. Very helpful. And then maybe just final question. I was just wondering what you're seeing on the customer side of your Components business. I mean, specifically with regards to inventory levels, whether you think those are sort of currently elevated or normalized? Any commentary surrounding that would be very helpful.

No, the inventory levels, what we have in Tridonic internally are on a normal level, so to speak, slightly higher simply because the customer behavior now is even more short term than it was in the past. So obviously, Tridonic customers, the OEM customers, our competitors, Photon and Zumtobel, they are -- if they are winning a project, then they are placing the orders to avoid inventories and it needs to be shipped within a couple of days. And that's a little bit the behavior what we see in the market.

So -- but -- the question with the inventory of the customer is that they have low inventory levels, but expect Tridonic to deliver within very short notice. They have no destocking, but low inventory levels. And if they get an order, they place it to Tridonic and its competitors and want to have the material on short notice.

That's great. Very helpful. And just a final question for me on the pricing development in the Components business. What the expectation is for this year and maybe sort of over the midterm, do you expect it to be at the current level or pricing -- price erosion to fade or deteriorate? Any comment around that?

We are looking it up what it is at the moment. But basically, we are back to the normal behavior with something like 3% price erosion, so to speak. Of course, customers -- or let me put it that way, competitors do all have capacities available. So when it comes to projects, price is important. But luckily, Tridonic has products what are more in the mid- to high end, but everybody can apply for it.

As Alfred said, 2% to 3% is the price erosion.

The next question comes from Patrick Steiner from ODDO BHF.

Three questions from my side, if I may. I'll take them one by one, if that's okay. First one, how much of the Phase 1 savings expected to come from personnel savings and how much is coming from other sources and which are they, if you could maybe give 1 or 2 examples?

You mean on the SG&A project, right?

Yes, exactly.

So we are not having all these details ready now on what exactly is the personnel savings. But it's a mix of, let me say, savings on, let me say, an example, marketing expenses, but the majority of the savings will be in the range of 66%.

70% to 80% will be personnel savings.

On the time frame of 4 years, what is this depending on? And could we see a probability of the actual execution of the cost savings program to be quicker than the planned 4 years?

As I said, one quite significant part of the cost savings will be that we are having a key position with current and future skills built up in the excellence centers in Serbia and in Portugal. And obviously, we have calculated that it will take some time to hire these people, to train these people to give them the responsibility. And therefore, we believe that this is quite an aggressive plan here what we have with reaching 80% in '27-'28. Maybe we can accelerate a little bit what we do in '26-'27. It depends also how this whole setup is working in the different countries.

Okay. That's helpful. Last question. The Phase 2 cost savings, can you give us some kind of quantifiable range with accepted cost savings? And also when do you expect to start the second phase of the program?

It's currently starting. We are going into that with a similar approach like with the SG&A. We are not having the details yet, but we are also expecting a double-digit million savings with that second phase.

[Operator Instructions] There are no more questions at this time. I would now like to turn the conference back over to Alfred Felder for any closing remarks.

Yes. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much for listening. Thank you very much for your interesting questions. Outlook, as I said, is a little bit shaky with a continuous weak environment, but we are positioning our company for the future, and we will update you on the progress in the next conference call after the half year. Thank you so much for listening, and have a great day ahead.