Semperit Aktie

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the publication of 2025 Annual Financial Statements Conference Call. I am Mathilde, the Chorus Call operator. [Operator Instructions] The conference is being recorded. The conference must not be recorded for publication or broadcast.

At this time, it's my pleasure to hand over to Manfred Stanek, CEO. Please go ahead.

Thank you very much. Welcome, everyone, to our results presentation for the full year 2025, and thank you for joining today's call. With me today is our CFO, Helmut Sorger. Helmut and I will guide you through the presentation, which is available on our website and then open the floor for questions.

As I have completed my first year with Semperit, I am pleased to update you on the progress we have made and the direction in which we are taking the company. When I joined last year, I saw a business with strong fundamentals, leading positions in niche elastomer markets and a deep technological heritage and a resilient business model with the potential to deliver significantly more.

At the same time, the environment we operated in last year was anything but easy. Geopolitical uncertainties, new tariffs and the subdued economic growth created a cautious investment climate, especially early in the year. Despite this, we were convinced that this phase would not last and that Semperit would regain momentum as the year progressed. And this is exactly what had happened.

But 2025 was not only a year of operational recovery, it was also a year in which we took time to sharpen our strategy, our strategic direction and to lay the foundation for our next development steps. On this slide, you see that our strategic ambition is clear and measurable to grow Semperit to more than EUR 1 billion in sales through profitable growth. This threshold is not just a symbolic milestone, it is a decisive driver of value creation. At that scale, our production capacity will be fully utilized. And because our business model is highly sensitive to utilization, this matters greatly.

Where do we want to play? Strategically, we are consistently focusing on industrial niches where we aim to be among the top 3 providers with our performance profile. And how do we win? We win by combining technological excellence with high customer proximity supported by a long track record in material and process innovation. And we operate a resilient business model, which benefits from high utilization in up cycles while continued innovation supports sustainable margin stability across the cycle.

On this slide, now you see our strategic levers. To unlock the full potential of these strengths, we have defined 4 strategic levers that guide our transformation shown here on Slide 3. First, growth. We are focusing deliberately on high-growth segments where our know-how and expertise create clear value and differentiation. Second, innovation. This is our #1 growth driver. Our aim is to protect and expand our technological edge through continuous advancements in materials, processes and product solutions. And I will give you a few examples of this in a moment.

Third, performance. Across all sites, we are driving excellence, efficiency and operational discipline to lift profitability and ensure long-term competitiveness. This also includes a constant focus on improving our manufacturing footprint through targeted investments in automation, digitalization and modern production technologies. And fourth, people. Our global team is the most critical success factor. We foster an environment of diversity, respect and open dialogue because high-performing teams thrive in a culture that enables them.

Let's move on to our strategy in action. As we move to the next page here, we can translate our group level strategy into concrete execution, and we have developed detailed strategic road maps for our 2 divisions and their businesses. Let's start with our SIA division, Semperit Industrial Applications. In our host business, we are driving organic growth through a clear hose-only positioning. This focus allows us to avoid channel conflicts and to concentrate fully on our core competence, supplying standard and premium hydraulic and industrial hoses with leading price quality performance. We are strengthening cost leadership, expanding our competitive product range, targeting technically demanding applications and driving geographic expansion, particularly in North America.

Our Profiles business. In our Profiles business, we are reinforcing our global leadership in EPDM sealing solutions, and this business focuses on expanding its position in the European construction and industrial markets and also scaling in North America, broaden its customer base, reducing costs and complexity and developing new materials and applications.

Across our Engineered Applications businesses, which is the businesses Form, Belting and Liquid Silicon Rubber, we are scaling proven platforms, sharpening our focus on profitable niches and expanding globally. Our business Form is growing through high-margin product market combinations, portfolio simplification and a stronger operational hub. Our Belting business prioritizes capacity utilization, stability across cycles, quality leadership and efficiency improvements across our manufacturing footprint.

And last but not least, our Liquid Silicon Rubber business focuses on above-market growth in medical, sanitary and automotive applications, driven by our technological leadership by automation, strong customer focus and expansion, in particular, in North America. So in summary, each business has a clear strategic road map that translates our group ambition into focused and executionable priorities.

Let's have a look at the megatrends because our strategic direction is reinforced by global megatrends that continue to shape demand for our products. As shown on this slide, you see that urbanization, demographic shifts, mobility, climate adoption and electrification, these are long-term drivers that play directly into our strengths in material science and engineered elastomer solutions. So we are partnering with industries to transform these trends into specific opportunities for Semperit in this dynamic and evolving world.

Lastly, I want to reflect briefly on 2025. It was a challenging year marked by a weak market environment, customer caution and ForEx headwinds, but it was also a year in which Semperit demonstrated resilience. We executed rigorously on our priorities, advancing operational efficiencies with meaningful cost savings of another EUR 6 million, strengthening our commercial performance, maintaining strict financial discipline and progressing innovation initiatives. These actions supported a strong margin recovery in the second half of the year to 14.3% as it is shown on the right side of the slide, culminating in full year operational EBITDA of EUR 83.6 million, which was above our guidance.

We clearly built momentum as the year progressed. The fourth quarter was our strongest with a margin of 15.3%. Our order book at the end of December was around 8% higher than the previous year, and our 12-month order intake was roughly in line with 2024. Toward the end of the year, we saw the usual seasonal volatility, but overall demand remained stable and supported our growth path. In summary, Semperit is moving forward with a clear strategy, a strengthened foundation and a team focused on disciplined execution. We are building a more innovative, more efficient and more customer-centric company positioned to grow profitably and create long-term value. With that, let's move on to the detailed results.

Turning the page, you see the shift in revenue and EBITDA year-on-year for the 2 divisions, Semperit Industrial Applications and Semperit Engineered Applications, showing graphically the impact of some of the latest economic trends. After Semperit Engineered Applications muted first quarter, we now see a much more balanced split between revenue and EBITDA across our 2 divisions, approaching the distribution we saw last year. Revenue currently stands at 41% for SIA and 59% for SEA, while EBITDA is 55% for SIA and 45% for SEA. This demonstrates the recovery in SEA is well underway and that our portfolio is returning to a more balanced state.

Let's turn to the Industrial Applications division at Slide 8. We see the challenging market conditions persisted throughout the full year 2025, but we saw clear improvement over the course of the year, especially in the second half. This graph shows a continuation in margin recovery since the final quarter of 2024 to 21.7% in the fourth quarter on the back of cost reduction, better capacity utilization and sales excellence initiatives.

In our Hoses business, demand remained subdued, particularly regarding the OEM segment. The expected OEM recovery in the second half did not materialize. However, destocking largely came to an end. Our direct customer business improved and OEMs now forecast a stable development for the coming quarters, broadly at the end -- at the level of Q4.

In Profiles, demand remained weak due to low activity in the construction sector. Early economic indicators suggest stabilization, but we do not expect a meaningful recovery before 2027. So overall, sales increased by 1.4% year-on-year to EUR 270.9 million and EBITDA rose by 4% to EUR 52.8 million, with the margin improving to 19.5% after 19% in 2024.

Turning to the next page to Engineered Applications division. Following a slow start of the year, the division gained noticeable traction from the second quarter onward, as clearly illustrated in the chart on the top, showing the development of quarterly sales and margins. We can see a continuous improvement since Q1, although the weak start could not be fully offset towards the final months of the year.

Sales totaled EUR 391.5 million, representing a 4.4% decline year-on-year, mainly driven by project delays in Belting and Liquid Silicon Rubber tooling during Q1. EBITDA amounted to EUR 42.5 million with a margin of 10.9% compared to 12.1% in the previous year. Encouragingly, the situation has improved -- the order situation has improved compared to last year.

Let me briefly summarize the performance of our 3 business units, Form, Belting and Liquid Silicon Rubber. Form delivered growth in both revenue and operating results, driven by strong demand in mountain applications, compression molded parts and European handrails. The railway segment remained stable despite project delays, while China proved challenging. Order intake and order backlog were both well above the prior year.

Belting started the year weak from the second quarter onward. However, the business recovered. Full year order intake and the year-end backlog were roughly in line with the previous year. And Liquid Silicon Rubber saw stable revenue and performance -- operating performance after a softer first quarter. Parts production developed solidly with growth in health care and food and baby applications, stable mobility demand and softer construction-related segments.

Let's move to Slide 10. As mentioned at the beginning of our call, innovation is a crucial growth driver for Semperit. Our focus is on how we adapt our materials expertise and product portfolio to new market and customer requirements. If you recall, last year, we presented 3 key innovations on this slide, our hybrid handrail, the rubber-coated steel rotors for the mining industry and our drag belts for snow groomers. All 3 products already contributed to our revenue in 2025.

Today, we have brought another few innovations to share with you. I would like to start with the RFID Rubber Tag, which enables integration of electronic components into rubber materials without compromising durability or performance. It allows efficient tracking and identification of rubber products, improving inventory management, operational efficiency and life cycle monitoring. A key advantage is its digital product passport conformity, providing access to essential product information through a unique electronic identifier, an important feature in light of upcoming sustainability and circular economy regulations. The tire industry will be among the first sectors affected by the EU digital product passport requirements, which makes our Rubber Tag a highly relevant innovation for this market.

Another interesting innovation is our reclaimed EPDM profile concept. We are turning vulcanized EPDM waste and scrap into secondary raw materials, enabling real circularity in our profile production. Using 30% regenerated rubber, our EPDM profiles achieve up to 30% reduction in product carbon footprint compared to standard profiles. The concept is scalable, and we are now evaluating how to extend it beyond internal scrap to both industrial and eventually also to post-consumer recycling. And of course, this is crucial to reduce the CO2 neutrality of the construction industry.

We have also brought an example of our high-tech liquid silicon rubber toolmaking capabilities. You see here a productive mask that combines thermoplastic and silicon and features into a highly modular design suitable for applications ranging from clinical ventilation masks to defensive grade gas masks. Together with 3M, we developed the entire project from scratch. The material mix required a special process. Thermoplastic parts were produced separately and plasma treated to ensure reliable adhesion of the silicon components. Precise part temperature and challenging venting of the liquid silicon rubber cavity were essential due to the complex geometry.

So this is an example that shows what liquid silicon rubber toolmaking made by Semperit stands for, deep material and process expertise, precise engineering and strong partnership from concept to serial production. I hope you found those innovation examples interesting.

And with this, I would now like to hand it over to Helmut to take us through the financials.

Thank you very much, Manfred, and also a warm welcome to you all. Let me start with the financial highlights as usual. And here, let me start with our operating leverage. With competitive overhead cost base and continued cost measures, we generated an additional EUR 6 million in savings over the year. This helped us protect profitability in a very volatile market environment. Second, you heard me say it before, cash is king. And so our free cash flow was solid at EUR 37 million, supported by very disciplined CapEx management and targeted spending. This focus on investment quality continues to be a core part of our capital allocation framework.

Third, we remained a strong balance sheet. Net financial debt-to-EBITDA stood at a mere 1.2x, reflecting prudent leverage and a healthy cash position. This gives us the flexibility to invest while maintaining financial resilience. Finally, we made tangible process in our digital transformation with the successful first rollout of oneERP and several other digital initiatives. By this, we reached our first milestones towards a more integrated and data-driven operating model. Overall, 2025 was a year of financial discipline and strategic progress, laying a solid foundation for the years ahead.

Given the developments in the last financial year, I would like to take the opportunity to take a closer look at how operating leverage played out during the year, a theme that has consistently run through our performance and one that also underpins our outlook. As shown on Slide 12, starting with Q1, revenues declined 14%, which translated into 52% decrease in EBITDA. This clearly illustrates the sensitivity of our earnings to lower capacity utilization early in the year.

By contrast, Q4 shows the positive side of the same mechanism. Revenues increased a mere 5% and EBITDA grew significantly faster at 31%. In other words, 2025 clearly underlined how our business model reacts to underutilization or utilization and our continuously reduced cost base. This operating leverage effect is central to our midterm ambition to reach higher and more stable profitabilities as volumes recover.

Let me walk through -- let me walk you through the key financial results for 2025 at Slide 13. Revenues came in at EUR 662 million, a slight decline of 2.1% year-on-year. This reflects the very weak start in Q1, followed by a steady recovery from the second quarter onwards. EBITDA landed at EUR 79.5 million, down 6.4% with a margin at 12% cost measures and the sequential improvement through the year helped to cushion the impact of lower volumes.

Operating EBITDA was EUR 83.6 million compared to EUR 86.3 million last year. This figure includes EUR 4.1 million in project costs related to our digitalization program, oneERP. EBIT at EUR 25.6 million reflects around minus EUR 4.4 million in impairments, primarily connected to the LSR customer base and the write-off of obsolete machinery. Earnings after tax were positive at EUR 0.4 million, driven by the operating development and roughly EUR 4.5 million of net currency effects.

Free cash flow remained solid at EUR 37 million, supported by strict capital discipline. CapEx was significantly lower year-on-year at EUR 34.7 million, reflecting our disciplined investment approach. Overall, 2025 shows a picture of resilience, cost discipline and a business that strengthened over the course of the year.

Turning the page and plotting the last 12-month industrial revenues against the industrial EBITDA margin, the underlying trend becomes even clearer. At the margin decline from 14.8% in Q4 2024 to 12.5% in Q2 2025, we now see a clear upward trend. Our ongoing focus on cost discipline, competitive overhead structure and efficient production helped stabilize profitability during the softer quarters and enabled a noticeable margin uplift as the demand improved towards year-end.

When looking at the year-on-year EBITDA bridge on Slide 15, prices, product mix and volumes had a negative impact, but our cost reduction measures delivered EUR 6 million, significantly mitigating the volume decline. Over the page, we present the constituent parts of our working capital management with an improvement compared to the situation a year ago. In total, trade working capital as a percentage of last 12 months revenues stood at 15%. This is broadly in line with the level we saw at the end of December 2024, but it represents a clear improvement both over the course of the year and compared to the beginning of 2024.

The bridge chart on Page 17 shows that our free cash flow of EUR 37 million comfortably covered both our growth-related CapEx of EUR 8.3 million and the dividend payment of EUR 10.3 million. Importantly, this development is linked to our very disciplined approach to CapEx throughout the year.

Our growth CapEx was significantly below last year's level, which was appropriate given the uncertainty in the market environment. At the same time, we intend to step up investments again this year in line with improving business conditions and our strategic priorities. As of the end of December, our net financial debt-to-EBITDA ratio remains unchanged at 1.2x, a solid conservative level and fully in line with our financial framework.

Let's take a look at our financial position as of end of December. Cash and cash equivalents stood at EUR 94.8 million, a decrease of 25% compared to year-end 2024. This was primarily due to the repayment of a Schuldschein loan with a nominal value of EUR 31 million at the end of July. As a result, our financial liabilities were reduced to EUR 194.4 million. Importantly, our EUR 100 million revolving credit facility remains undrawn, giving us additional financial flexibility. As already mentioned, our leverage remains at a solid level, and our equity ratio slightly increased to 48.5%, underscoring the continued strength of our balance sheet.

Finally, let me conclude with our capital allocation priorities, our cash usage framework. As you know from previous discussions, our approach follows a clear sequence. In 2025, our CapEx remained well below the 2024 level, reflecting the market environment and the elevated level of uncertainty we faced. This disciplined stance was deliberate and fully within our control. Maintenance CapEx amounted to EUR 26.4 million and growth CapEx was EUR 8.3 million. At the same time, we intend to increase our investment activity again in 2026, in line with improving visibility and our strategic growth agenda.

Against this backdrop and in light of our priority to strengthen the company's financial substance and support future growth, the Management Board decided not to propose a dividend for the full year 2025. This decision is a direct consequence of our strategic direction and the priorities we're setting at this point in time. If we want to develop Semperit towards the EUR 1 billion mark, we need to maintain a strong financial base and have the reserves for targeted investments to drive growth.

With this, I conclude my part of the presentation, and I would like to hand back to you, Manfred.

Thank you, Helmut. Before I move to the conclusion and our outlook, I would also like to give you a brief overview of our ESG priorities last year and some of the initiatives that we are currently -- that are currently ongoing. Our circularity agenda centers on recycling and material recovery, including more in-process recycling and the increased use of recycled and bio-based raw materials. With our reclaimed profiles innovation, we have already shared a strong example of how we translate circularity into tangible products. And we also have been very successful in increasing the share of recycled waste from 46% to 55%.

As an industrial company with around 4,000 employees, occupational safety remains one of our most important responsibilities. And here, we achieved further progress. Thanks to continued training and a clear action list across the organization, the incident rate in our company declined significantly once again. We also introduced a group-wide leadership operating system, which translates our values into daily behavior and reinforces an open speed up culture across the organization.

On the next slide, you see our ESG targets until 2030 and how we performed in 2025 across the 3 focus areas. What stands out is the further reduction in our incident rate and strong progress in waste reduction. Waste per product unit is down by 20%, which is not only a positive for the environment, but also has a direct impact on our bottom line. On energy efficiency, we are not there yet where we want to be, mainly due to lower utilization, but the initiatives we have in place will support improvement as volumes normalize.

Let's move on. Looking ahead to 2026, we expect that the group to return to a solid growth trajectory. We anticipate a high single-digit percentage revenue growth supported by both divisions. The seasonal pattern should remain in place, a softer part into the year, followed by stronger momentum in the second half. In the division, Industrial Applications, we benefit from customers having now completed their inventory cleanup. And in Profiles, we are seeing the first indications of market improvement.

In Engineered Application, performance varies by segment. Mountain Applications and Handrail Europe continue to develop well, while some of our other activities remain influenced by longer product cycles and postponed customer projects. Our lean cost base, strict discipline and continuous innovation efforts position us well to capture outsized earnings upside even if the overall market recovery is modest. At the same time, several structural tailwinds support our midterm outlook, including the German infrastructure program, rising European defense spending and over time, reconstruction demand in Ukraine.

For the year, we aim for operating EBITDA of around EUR 95 million, and we plan approximately EUR 50 million in CapEx with a clear focus on maintenance stability and targeted strategic growth. This outlook assumes a continuation of the moderate economic recovery and easing geopolitical uncertainty as we move through the first half of the year.

And last but not least, I always like to say that I don't only present this slide as a Chief Executive Officer, but also as a shareholder of Semperit, our investment case remains strong market leadership, innovation and a resilient business model with high operating leverage. When demand rebounds, we are positioned to benefit disproportionately and our platform sets us up for sustainable growth.

And now Helmut and I are available for any questions you might have. Operator, if you would please start with the Q&A procedures.

[Operator Instructions] The first question comes from the line of Bosse, Volker from Baader Bank.

Volker Bosse, Baader Bank. I would have 3 questions. First is on the Iran war, which we currently see. I mean we see oil price increases and volatility in general is rising. So how do you look at these effects from an higher oil price on your business?

And second question would be on your guidance, as you stated to expect a moderate recovery of economic momentum. So just for curiosity, why do you think so? And maybe in that context, you could also elaborate on how the U.S. tariffs impact your business directly and indirectly?

And the third question would be on dividend. I mean, yes, as you said, no dividend for '25, no dividend proposal. Perhaps one more word. I mean you already said why you decided to do so. But could -- should we see this as a onetime effect, so to say, 1 year, no dividend? And I mean, perhaps some words on your general dividend policy going forward would be helpful.

Okay. Thank you very much. I will take the first question and pass the second and the third question on to Helmut. First of all, of course, an important question, the impact of the Iran war of oil prices, et cetera. So 2 things. First of all, we are dealing with elastomer products, which are derivatives from oil. So of course, the oil price has an impact on our material cost base, usually with a delay of 1 to 2 months. But we are forecasting to be able to manage to pass cost increases on to our customers. We have proven that we were able to do this in the past, especially in the years with a very strong inflation, and we are targeting to do the same thing right now.

The bigger concern we have is on the end customer demand. If inflation rises again, I think it would be reasonable to also expect lower demand from the end customers, and this would, of course, impact us definitely more stronger than the cost increase. So again, cost increases, we are planning and we are able to pass on to our customers. However, a weakened demand would be a bigger strategic or operational risk for this year coming out of the conflict in the Middle East.

Volker, let me continue here with your second question on the tariffs. We addressed that last year already. Let me start with a notion on whether the tariffs have more impact or the uncertainty on the tariffs. And we saw in Q1 2025 that uncertainty in the project business hurt us because everybody or key customers in the project business waited until there's clarity about the tariffs, whether they procure from us, from Europe or from China or Indian suppliers.

So when we reach certainty after big liberation day in Q2, tariffs turn into -- from an uncertainty factor into a cost factor. And just to give you some figures, our revenues in the U.S. is about EUR 80 million. And the predominant part of this is revenues generated from our 2 production facilities in the U.S. Of course, we're in other businesses that are kind of global where we export into the U.S. And here, the tariffs certainly play a role.

On the dividend, yes, I think we are clear. We want to continue the growth path. We want to turn Semperit into the growth path. And as the CFO of the company, it might not surprise you that I prefer to have some money on the bank if opportunity turns up or if certain uncertainty increases. And in 2025, we adhere to our dividend policy, which is basically 50% of group earnings after tax that we propose as a dividend to the AGM. This will be our dividend policy going forward. And we have the ambition and also the guidance yields it to be earnings after tax positive in 2026. Volker, I hope that answers your question.

Yes. Well done and all the best.

The next question comes from the line of Remis, Markus from ODDO BHF.

A few questions left from my side. Firstly, on the capacity utilization rate, can you break that down a bit into the individual business components, at least kind of indications or brackets where you've been 2025 so that we have kind of a sense of how long you can sustain a rather low level of CapEx?

With the CapEx, we -- Markus, we talked about that in Q3, and I think my answer has not changed. I think it's important that we are committed to growth CapEx, and we are for 2026. But I think it was still wise to save on CapEx in 2025 in order to safeguard our cash generation. We don't let our asset base go to ruins. This is not the case. We do not save on safety relevant CapEx. All that happened, but we were a little cautious on growth CapEx. When it comes to capacity utilization...

Yes, that's a little bit mixed capacity utilization depending on our different business. For example, in our liquid silicon rubber business unit, we had a full capacity utilization in our tool making starting with the second half of the year. We saw similar full capacity utilizations in, for example, in mountain applications. But of course, we have other businesses like, for example, in our Belting business where we have the conveyor belts for mining, we had throughout the entire year of a capacity utilization of maybe 60% to 65%. And also in our Profiles business, we are looking at a capacity utilization maybe of...

70% round about.

Yes, 70% more towards the end of the year, much lower in the first half of the year. So I cannot really give you one number. It depends business by business. But to cut a long story short, overall, I would say that we can do easily another EUR 200 million in revenues with the same installed capacity that we have right now. So we still have a lot of room left for producing more.

And maybe for the hoses, any indication for the utilization rate?

Of technical capacity, about 70%. But of course, we use the capacity as needed, adapting shifts and shift patterns. So we were -- there's -- ample is always the wrong word to use, but there's still capacity reserves. And don't forget, we have RDH5 where we have an additional 24 million meters that we can ramp -- that we will ramp up over the next couple of years.

And additionally, we saw some bottlenecks in our hose business last year, for example, as a result of the flooding in Thailand, our factory was at a standstill there for a couple of weeks. So there were also some artificial, so to say, bottlenecks that we usually don't have.

Okay. One bit of a bookkeeping question. In the fourth quarter, you apparently had some extra operating -- other operating income. Was that the insurance gain from the flooding?

Yes. There was about EUR 1.9 million insurance from the flooding just pertaining to -- that's a part pertaining to 2025. And of course, don't forget, Markus, we have the full year now of charges to our tenant HARPS at our site in Wimpassing, where we pass on energy expenses, infrastructure expenses that goes into the other income. But in the prior year, we had the sale of a site in there. So all in all, it's up. You're right about that. It's a Q4 impact, but the HARPS impact will be ongoing until end of 2028.

Yes. Okay. And then the final question would be on the ERP costs. How long will that carry on? So '26 is clear. Is that something that goes beyond '27?

Yes, '28 will be part of it. And then end of '28 will be done.

[Operator Instructions] Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question. I would now like to turn the conference back over to Mr. Stanek for any closing remarks.

Okay. Well, thank you very much. Thank you for your time and participation. And of course, we remain available for any questions or comments or discussions you might have. Please do not hesitate to reach out to us, and we will speak again in this circuit at the latest when we present our Q1 results on May 13. Thank you very much.

Ladies and gentlemen, the conference is now over. Thank you for choosing Chorus Call, and thank you for participating in the conference. You may now disconnect your lines. Goodbye.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Semperit Publication of Q1 Q3 2025 Results Conference Call. I am [ Sandra ], the course Call operator.

[Operator Instructions] The conference must not be recorded for publication or broadcast.

At this time, it's my pleasure to hand over to Mr. Stanek, CEO. Please go ahead, sir.

Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to our results presentation for the first 3 quarters of 2025. Joining me today is our CFO, Helmut Sorger.

We are well aware that today is a particularly busy day for publications with numerous Q3 reports being released. That's why we are all the more pleased that you are taking the time to learn more about our progress.

Helmut and I will guide you through the presentation, which is available on our website and then open the floor for your questions.

I would like to start with Slide 3, the overview. On this page of the slide deck, you will find a brief summary of the highlights. Let me start with the positive developments in the third quarter.

We continued to build momentum with EBITDA improving to EUR 21.3 million. That's a 92% increase versus Q1 and 9% growth versus Q2. Year-on-year, EBITDA was up by almost 29% and the margin climbed by 2.8 percentage points to 13.1% despite revenue growing only slightly by around 1%. This clearly shows that the measures we implemented earlier in the year are paying off.

Our order situation is now above 2024 levels following the subdued development we saw in the first quarter. This gives us confidence as we move into the final weeks of the year. At the same time, we have defined additional cost savings initiatives, which will reduce our annual cost base by another EUR 10 million. These actions are essential to strengthen our resilience and improve profitability going forward.

However, we must acknowledge that challenging market conditions still weigh on overall performance for the first 9 months. EBITDA stands at EUR 52 million, down 18.6% year-on-year, and the margin is 10.8% compared to 12.6% last year.

On a positive note, earnings after tax returned to positive territory in Q3, reaching EUR 2.8 million compared to a loss of EUR 2.5 million in the comparable quarter 2024 and losses in the first 2 quarters this year. The third quarter marks a clear turnaround and reflects the progress which we are making.

Finally, based on the development so far, we have specified our outlook for the full year. We expect operational EBITDA to come in at approximately EUR 78 million. Just to remind you, that is EBITDA before costs for our ERB digitalization project.

Turning the page, you see the shift in revenue and EBITDA year-on-year for our 2 divisions, Semperit Industrial Applications and Semperit Engineered Applications, showing graphically the impact of some of the latest economic trends. After Engineered Applications muted first quarter, we now see a much more balanced split between revenue and EBITDA across our 2 divisions, approaching the distribution which we saw last year.

Revenue stands at 42% for SEA and 58% for SEA, while EBITDA is 59% for SEA and 41% for SEA. This demonstrates that the recovery in SEA engineered applications is well underway and that our portfolio is returning to a more balanced state.

Let's turn to the Industrial Applications division at Slide 5. Here, we see a continuation in margin recovery since the final quarter of 2024 to nearly 20% in the third quarter on the back of cost reduction, better capacity utilization and sales excellence initiatives.

Overall, challenging market conditions persist, but the order situation has improved compared to last year, mainly driven by the hoses business. Sales in the first 3 quarters remained broadly stable with a slight year-on-year decline of 1%, primarily due to lower volumes. EBITDA decreased by 8.3%, but the margin held firm at a resilient 18.7%.

In hoses, demand remained subdued, especially in the OEM segment, while direct customer business improved as inventory destocking ended. Order intake and backlog are above last year's levels. For profiles, construction activity is still weak. That said, early economic indicators suggest signs of stabilization, although we do not expect a short-term recovery. We are countering this with targeted cost savings and sales excellence initiatives.

Turning to Slide 6 to the Engineered Applications division. Following a slow start to the year, the division gained noticeable traction from the second quarter onward as clearly illustrated in the chart on the top showing the development of quarterly sales and margins. We can see a continuous improvement since Q1, although the weak start of the year could not be fully offset over the course of the first 3 quarters.

Sales for the first 3 quarters totaled EUR 282.2 million, representing a 7% decline year-on-year, mainly driven by project delays in belting and liquid silicon rubber tooling during Q1. EBITDA amounted to EUR 26.3 million with a margin of 9.3% compared to 12.1% in the previous year. Encouragingly, the order situation has improved compared to last year.

Looking at the business units, our Form business, which encompasses various product market combinations recorded a slight increase in sales. Demand was mixed. Mountain applications, industrial and European handrails performed strongly. Transport was stable, but we see delays in larger infrastructure projects like high-speed rail and budget shifts towards defense.

The Chinese handrail market remains challenging due to weak infrastructure investment and high local government debt in China. Importantly, both order intake and backlog in the Form business exceeded last year's levels. As you know, Belting, our conveyor belt business started the year under pressure from project postponements and uncertainty around the U.S. tariff policy. As a consequence, we did adjust capacity.

In Q2, orders clearly picked up, but lost some momentum in September, leading to a slight slowdown towards the end of Q3. Still, intake and backlog for the first 9 months are above last year. Currently, we are operating at full speed and full capacity to process all orders on time and ensure reliable delivery until the end of the year.

Finally, our liquid silicon rubber business, respectively, Rico, posted stable revenues compared to last year, but managed to increase EBITDA. Order intake in parts production developed satisfactorily overall, although demand varied by product group. Call-offs from the health care sector increased mobility continued at a high level. Declines were seen in segments like the construction industry.

The order situation in the tool shop has improved, and this has also laid a good foundation for future capacity utilization in the production of liquid silicon rubber parts.

And with this, I would like now to hand over to Helmut, who will take us through the financials.

Thank you, Manfred, and also a very warm welcome from me.

Let me start with the financial highlights in the first 9 months on Slide #7. As already announced, we defined and began implementing yet another cost-saving measure beginning of the year. These initiatives reduced our annual cost base by another EUR 10 million on a run rate basis -- annual run rate basis. By the end of September, we had already achieved savings of EUR 4.1 million.

In this context, allow me to just remind you of the extensive actions we've already taken since 2023. We responded very early. And together, the new measures, we will have removed around EUR 30 million in overheads in the last 2.5 years. This has certainly helped us counter inflation, support margins and significantly improve our operating leverage. You'll clearly see the impact once market demand picks up a little bit.

We maintained our free cash flow at a stable level at EUR 22.3 million, and we clearly see Q3, the cash flow generation gaining clear momentum. We have a stable balance sheet. Our net financial debt-to-EBITDA ratio is at 1.5. Clearly below our internal threshold of 2.5.

Turning to our key transformation project, one ERP, which is in a really, really hot stage right now. We had the technical go-live on November 1. We have a system, and we are officially in cutover. Big thanks to the team, the efforts that went into it. It clearly shows there's still some pioneering spirit left in Semperit that will certainly leverage with the continued rollouts. This will give us one system for the entire group. help us be efficient in back-office processes, and we are looking forward to the rollouts of the next plans in the next 3 years.

Not to say the least, we also managed to pay a dividend of EUR 0.50 per share. That's EUR 10.3 million total to our shareholders on April 30. While this may feel like a while ago, it remains an important element in how we allocate capital and reflect our commitment to delivering value.

On the next slide, we summarize the main items of the P&L and other key financial indicators in comparison to the last period. As you'll recall from our last call, we suggested using the first quarter as proof of our operating leverage. Just to remind you, sales in the first quarter were down 14%. EBITDA was down 52%.

To give you the Q3 in a side-by-side comparison, in Q3, sales were up just slightly 1%, but EBITDA plus 29% operating EBITDA even 34%. This is kind of a situation where we say an small incremental change in volumes and utilization goes directly into the bottom line.

As Manfred has already told, revenues recovered in Q2, Q3, improving overall trajectory despite the soft start. EBITDA also benefited from our cost measures, partly offsetting the volume decline. Over the course of the first 3 quarters, we recorded a moderate decline in revenue of 4.6%, while EBITDA came in at EUR 52 million, which is still down 18.6% compared to last year.

Operating EBITDA reached EUR 55.6 million. This includes the EUR 3.5 million in project cost for our digitalization initiative ERP. Earnings after tax came in negative at EUR 8.4 million. This reflected the overall development, but also had the EUR 3.3 million impairment of our customer base at Rico and EUR 4.2 million in negative currency effects.

Our free cash flow, as I mentioned before, remained stable. This primarily due to our disciplined CapEx management. We tried to shift CapEx projects into future years when they were not entirely essential. Not to mention, at last, we also use the effective method of factoring in order to cash in on our accounts receivables.

Turning the page and plotting the last 12 months industrial revenues against the industrial EBITDA margin. After a margin decline from 14.8% in Q4 2024 to 12.5% in Q2 '25, largely due to the stronger margin base in early '24, we now see a clear upward trend in Q3. This improvement reflects mainly the impact of our cost reduction efforts, but also good procurement and control of the sales prices.

As I've emphasized before, these measures play a key role in stabilizing margins, especially in a challenging market environment.

When looking at the year-on-year EBITDA bridge on Slide 10, the decline in volumes could not be fully offset by price/mix effects and other measures. However, you can already clearly see the impact of our latest cost-saving initiatives, which contributed EUR 4.1 million in savings by the end of September.

Cost of materials, services and energy increased slightly year-on-year, while the change in inventory continues to play a role in the overall pictures. It reflects the normalization of our stock levels. Project costs related to our 1 EP digitalization initiatives amounted to EUR 3.5 million, and that brings our operating EBITDA to EUR 55.6 million.

Over the page, we present the constituent parts of our working capital management with an improvement compared to the situation a year ago. In total trade working capital as a percentage of last 12-month revenues was down at 16.7% after 18% at the end of the September last year. Compared to the end of the year, we see a slight increase, which is mainly due to the normalization of inventory levels and certainly an uptick in production activity.

The bridge chart for year-on-year net financial debt development on Page 12 shows that free cash flow of EUR 22.3 million comfortably covered both our growth-related CapEx of EUR 7.1 million and the dividend payment of EUR 10.3 million. At the end of September, our net financial debt-to-EBITDA ratio stands at 1.5x, slightly up compared with 1.2x at the end of the year last year, but a very solid and conservative level and well within our financial framework.

Let's take a look at our financial position at the end of the third quarter on Slide 13. Cash and cash equivalents stood at EUR 86.6 million, a decrease of 31% compared to year-end '24, but this was primarily due to the repayment of the Schuldschein loan with a nominal value of EUR 31 million that happened in July. As a result, our financial liabilities were reduced to EUR 199.1 million. Most importantly, our EUR 100 million revolving credit facility remains undrawn, giving us additional financial flexibility.

As already mentioned, our leverage remains at a very solid level with net financial debt-to-EBITDA ratio of 1.5, and our equity ratio is stable at 47%, underscoring the continued strength of our balance sheet.

Let me conclude with our capital allocation priorities on the next page, cash usage, which you're already familiar with. Rather than going into detail for each component, the key message is that we managed to keep normal investments under tight control. Maintenance CapEx amounted to EUR 18.6 million in the first 3 quarters, while growth investments totaled EUR 7.1 million.

Given the current market environment, we believe it's prudent to pull this lever, which is fully within our control. We paid a dividend of EUR 0.50 per share on April 30, totaling EUR 10.3 million.

With this, I've come to the end of my part of the presentation, and I would like to hand back to Manfred for his concluding remarks.

Thank you very much, Helmut. Let me wrap up with the outlook and a few key takeaways for the months ahead.

Order intake continues to trend positively year-on-year. This was also true for October. Nevertheless, market conditions remain challenging.

In the Industrial Applications segment, the host business is benefiting from the completed inventory reduction, while profiles are showing early signs of stabilization.

In the Engineered Applications segment, the picture is mixed. Strong performance in mount applications and handwheels in Europe, plus a clear rebound in belting and liquid silicon rubber after a soft first quarter. At the same time, some areas remain under pressure and the Chinese market is still tough.

Based on our earnings performance so far, we fine-tuned our full year outlook. For 2025, we now expect operating EBITDA of around EUR 78 million.

Project costs for ERP will be about EUR 5 million.

As for CapEx, we are looking at roughly EUR 40 million. As we've already said, we can flex our investments to match market conditions. Looking ahead, seasonality will continue to play a role in 2026 with a slower start and a stronger second half. We are planning for that. Thanks to our lean structures, strict cost discipline and ongoing innovation, we are confident we can capture above-average gains even from a modest market recovery.

Looking ahead to the midterm, we see strong structural growth drivers in place, including the German infrastructure program, rising EU defense budgets and reconstruction efforts in Ukraine. These are tailwinds alongside other factors that will further support demand.

And to wrap up, our investment case remains strong, market leadership, innovation and a resilient business model with high operating leverage. When demand rebounds, we are positioned to benefit disproportionately, and our platform sets us up for sustainable growth.

And now Helmut and I are available for any questions you might have. Operator, if you would please start with the Q&A procedures.

[Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from Markus Remis from ODDO BHF.

Congrats on the strong profit improvement in the third quarter. I would have one question related to the earnings walk-down that you displayed in the third quarter. If I compare the first 3 quarters, and the first 2 quarters in the third quarter, it appears that there was quite an impact from the change in inventories. If you could break that down, why does it seem more pronounced than in the prior quarters? If you can shed some color on it.

Markus, yes, absolutely. I mean, we had, if I remember correctly, about EUR 7 million in the first half. Change in inventories now is, of course, a buildup that we have. We had to play catch-up with production since, as you're aware, in July and August, we have our planned standstills. So there are 2 moments in time when we basically need to optimize working capital, but also make sure that we generate enough product to furnish the market. And the better utilization rates, the higher rate of work in progress that we had in Q3 contributed to this positive turning of the change in inventories due to the better absorption of the fixed cost part.

Is it fair to assume that there is a bit of a countering effect in the final quarter?

Yes.

Okay. And then on the guidance, thanks for keeping this refined target. I'm surprised, I have to admit that you're pinpointing a specific number, still adding this approximately. What gives you the high confidence that you will be that close to that number? And if I may add, for the fourth quarter, given that we saw a further increase in the order intake and the order book, is it fair to assume that revenue momentum, top-line growth will pick up compared to the third quarter?

Let me start with the guidance, why the pinpointed guidance, because it's the best we know. And since the market at the moment is not the bottleneck, Manfred has told you we have pretty good order activity in Q3 and also throughout Q2. So we are playing a game of catch-up now, where basically we are utilizing all the capacities that we have available according to current staffing levels.

So the exercise is a forecasting exercise where basically the bottleneck is our production capacity. And we certainly have confidence in our plants and confidence in our people that we will not have breakdowns and be able to furnish all the goods out of our doors to our customers. Of course, it has some caveats in there. December is always a month coined by weather effects, but also delays in shipping that might occur.

So basically, invoicing, we try to do until the last day of the year, literally, we did that last year, and we want to continue that. But of course, this is what we have as an internal forecast that we share with you again. So there are no adjustments that we make or any room for safety that we want to do. If everything works to plan, we can deliver the 78 or maybe a little bit more. If we have standstills or there are breakdowns in the supply chains, or we have bad weather so that the trucks can't come to our plants in December, it could be a little bit less. But we are from the moment, from our forecasting, determined to get there.

Do you want to add something to the activity?

No, we have the orders in-house, so it's up to us to produce. We don't see any additional bottlenecks. So we are very confident to ship that in the next 7 weeks.

Your question about ordering activity in Q4, it's above last year. But it's not the wall that's coming and approaching us. So we don't see the big uptick and OEM business on the whole side, I mean, I'm sure you're following the figures that Volvo heavy equipment is publishing, Caterpillar as well. I mean, they see a flattish development. But what plays for us now is that the overstocking effects are out of the system, and this is a great help.

Markus, I hope that answers your question.

Very clear. Then I would have one regarding the remarks regarding the 2026 seasonality. So typically, the industrial business is stronger in the first half, at least that's what it was for many years, looking at the old, if I may say, so, reporting structure. Now, if I look at the comparison base, Q1 will be the weakest quarter. So my sense would be also now, with better-filled order books that the Q1, Q2 shouldn't be that bad. Is your statement basically a reference to further buildup of momentum of order momentum in the first half, and that will then cater an even stronger second half? Is that a fair angle?

I would not go that far. I mean, for this year, our guidance was clear: first half difficult, second half better. I think that's what we're experiencing right now. For next year, I think we just need to see in our Performance Commodity business, you're absolutely right that the first half of the year is stronger than the second half because in the second half, we have 2 plant standstills for maintenance. So this is a very natural explanation. We need to repair machinery, equip machinery.

For the project business, which is impacting the building business and Rico, it's more the uncertainties and also the peak cycle of investments and investment proposals that the big mining companies do. So here, we experienced that the first quarter was weaker due to the uncertainties in the economy, and also waiting and seeing in the project business. And I don't rule that out for next year at all.

Yes. Additionally, in the Belting business, we had a maintenance shutdown planned for December. We have now pushed this maintenance shutdown into January because production is so strong this year. So there will be, at least in the Belting business, a weak month in the month of January. So this also plays into our forecast.

And then the last question before I get back into the line. You've again lowered the investment budget to EUR 40 million now. If I look at the beginning of the year, it still stood at EUR 60 million, you have maintenance by which I find remarkable, given that maintenance should be more of a, I would say, nondiscretionary in nature. Can you elaborate a bit on the pushback or on the reduction?

And also in the last call, you said that the decline from EUR 50 million to EUR 60 million would then be compensated by a higher budget in 2026. Could you give us some sort of brackets for CapEx next year?

Let me explain. Our maintenance CapEx comprises maintenance, smaller growth projects, and automation. So there's clearly some discretionary room that Manfred, [ Gerfried ], and I have in approving this when it comes to a situation. Remember the first quarter and even the second quarter when Semperit was basically barely cash positive. So then you can be assured we will not spend on CapEx that can be shifted into future periods when we are not earning money.

Now the situation has turned. The free cash flow has improved. But of course, for CapEx projects, you run out of time because the year ends. It's basically we try to push whatever is not safety critical, whatever doesn't have a payback of less than 2.5 years, I think our cutoff was. And we are definitely, you see with the strategic growth CapEx, we are committed to our strategic growth CapEx.

So we have not cut back any on this. But there's certainly a line that you can walk when you replace machinery, whether you want to push that equipment another year by doing a sound maintenance, which then goes into OpEx and then replace it at the future point in time with, of course, risks of machine breakage, but some of our machinery have been with us for decades.

In that time, machinery was still good and overbuilt. So I think we can joke aside, take that risk to a certain degree. But we are certainly committed to maintaining our industrial base. This is our obligation, and this is our responsibility here.

But you won't see higher CapEx next year because, I mean, there's just a certain amount of projects that we can do a year with our engineering program.

Right. So higher than what's like EUR 60 million or again EUR 40 million?

I'm just saying the backlog, the shortage of this year won't be on top of the normalized maintenance CapEx. I think we've told you before is about EUR 35 million, EUR 30 million to EUR 35 million. The rest would be automation projects and the rest would be strategic investments.

Okay. So if I say EUR 50 million is like the run rate of depreciation, that's kind of...

And we are a bit less than that and compensate with strategic investments that was committed.

The next question comes from Volker Bosse from Baader Bank.

I would have two questions. First question is on the specified guidance, EUR 78 million before project costs. You mentioned also the EUR 5 million for the one ERP. Is that all or are these all project costs this EUR 5 million which you want to exclude of the EUR 78 million or are there further project costs which has to be taken into account? So basically, you guide for EUR 73 million reported EBITDA and EUR 78 million operating EBITDA or adjusted EBITDA. Did I get the message right?

Yes. It's just the project expenses. That's a very quick answer. And the reason for it is we are implementing as for public cloud from our friends at SAP. And since this is Software as a Service, it's only very limited potential to capitalize that. So basically, the implementation expenses have to go through the P&L. So we exclude specifically these expenses for comparability, nothing else.

Okay. That's all what you have in mind. Perfect. Got the message. And the second question is also on the order intake. You speak about positive order intake despite challenging market environment. Could you give a bit more granularity if you speak about order intake from a regional perspective or in general, what are the underlying trends by region? Can you break it out to get your picture of the world, so to say?

Yes, I can take this and maybe you can complement, Helmut. So when I go in my mind through the different businesses, I cannot really say that I see a trend per region. We see a strong order -- not a strong -- better than last year order intake definitely in all regions, I would say, with the exception of China, where we have a very big handrail business and the local towns and communities in China are not investing currently because they have a very high debt -- but other than that, we see a good order intake throughout all our businesses all around the globe.

What would you say, Helmut?

Yes. I mean the exception of China, as I mentioned before, which is basically domestic sales of handrails in China have tanked, as we explained in the management report. But our form business is able to compensate that with new PMCs, strong performance in mountain applications, very solid order intake in industrial mining, filtration membranes, mixmerals. So the niche business of our SEA comes into play here that we can say, okay, they are moving at the moment, all in the right direction apart from and this is a big handrails in China.

Yes, exactly. And in the Belting business, for example, we strategically made a shift when it comes to our customers away from coal mining towards copper mining and towards the minerals, which are supported by the electrification. And for example, in the last month, two months, we have seen that almost the entire order intake is also coming from those new minerals and not from the old minerals. So we're also very pleased how this order book is developing.

[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from Marc-René Tonn from Warburg Research.

Just coming back to the EBITDA outlook at first. I think when my math is correct, I think with the EUR 78 million for the full year, you're basically targeting a Q4 result in the magnitude of Q3. I think seasonally, probably sales will be lower than compared to the third year. So if I'm not mistaken, or are you expecting anything different than that, which would mean another margin improvement for that quarter on a stand-alone basis, potentially supported by cost savings. Is this the right way to look at it? Or is there, let's say, anything else you would expect like higher sales, which will contribute to that?

No, I think you're spot on with your analysis. I mean the cost savings, basically the EUR 4.1 million with the main momentum buildup in Q2, Q3, they should contribute it fully or they will contribute fully in Q4. Inflation is basically digested. So most of the wage increases have already happened. So this is basically just the run rate. What we are going to see is good productivity in Q4, knocking on wood that equipment holds up.

And on the dark side, of course, to manage working capital becomes more challenging. You mentioned EBITDA. But of course, if you're fully booked and you need raw materials and you have work in progress, of course, our eyes are fully on working capital and making sure we're not overshooting on this one. This is the challenging part in managing the upturn, if I may add here.

But it's still -- it's Q3 that we need to replicate, but we have, as Manfred has mentioned before, basically capacity available until shortly before Christmas when we have our plan standstills.

And just, let's say, what I understand correctly, I mean, if we would see -- let's keep our fingers crossed, this will materialize, let's say, a more pronounced increase in revenues in the second half of next year, you are confident that you will, let's say, be able to build capacity with new hires just in lot of...

The machines are not the problem at the moment, labor because we are staffed, of course, to market demand or to needs, but we are already improving in our hoses business by hiring here. And of course, other businesses like our liquid silicone business is highly automated. So I mean, labor is not really the restriction here.

Perfect. And perhaps lastly, I think you mentioned in earlier calls, some price pressure, I think was in belting at the time when, let's say, with weaker demand and you already mentioned the mix in the customer structure you are targeting there with the focus shifting from coal to metals. Is there also, let's say, a different, let's say, kind of price pressure? Or is, let's say, the competition basically following you so with no major, let's say, relief on the pricing side there?

Well, I think the only thing that we see is Chinese competition has become stronger outside of the U.S. Exports from China to the U.S. have declined strongly. But at the same time, the entire decline was compensated to exports in other regions. I now mean macroeconomically. And we also see that in our regions outside of the U.S., a stronger Chinese competition, which puts a pressure on prices, but that's just something we have to deal with.

The next question comes from [ Sara Hellman ] from Neways.

So my question would be, since the Chinese demand for handrails has been so weak, if there are any visible changes for the next quarters coming?

For the demand for Chinese handrails, well, we see a shift. We sell less to the OEMs, and we sell more to the aftermarket sales to the service market because there are less newer handrails, but the handrails which are installed are being changed at a higher rate. This has a little bit of a negative margin impact for us. But still, part of this business is compensated through the aftermarket service, compensating less OEM sales. That's how I would see that.

And if I may add, of course, if budgetary restrictions with the provincial governments are very tight, of course, they're inclined to use cheaper handrails because, I mean, they still need the handrails. And of course, we have products in our portfolio that satisfy those needs... which is basically also for aftermarket business and a cheaper alternative. Of course, we'll see some margin impact. I mean, of course, if the price point is a different one, you see different revenues and you see percentage margin is comparable, but in absolute terms, margins are lower. But we are very confident that in SEA, we can compensate the temporary decline with new PMCs, with new business. In fact, Manfred more than compensate that.

We have a follow-up question from Markus Remis from ODDO BHF.

Yes. It's actually 2 follow-ups. Firstly, can you give us an idea of the current capacity utilization that you're running? I appreciate it's worse over the business unit, but a better understanding here would be helpful. And related to that, how much growth can you digest before your cost base will have to be inflated again. So the next not Okay. So no what we call in Germany don't fix the cost in the next quarters.

It's interesting that you asked because we just had a management call at 1:00. And the Executive Board was very adamant to congratulate everybody on the call. That's top management about 170, 180 people. Congratulate them on the efforts with regard to cost reduction because it's really not the fact we're carving out now. I mean it's the tough ones where we had to cut out performance too. But we made them aware that when business picks up, they need to be very vigilant that higher overheads are not introduced because it comes through the back door. You don't have everybody on staff anymore. The work needs to be done. So you're playing with the thought to use third party for some time, and then you have the great idea you replace third party with employees, with full-time employees. And then all of a sudden, you get back to where you started.

So everybody is cautioned. We try to be minus 1. If it takes 2 to do the task, we have one, and what's going to help us? I mean, this is clearly not a sustainable situation under normal circumstances, but what's going to help us is the ongoing digitalization initiatives. So we basically moved ahead, reduced overheads for back-office functions for other key functions and we'll replace that with digital workflows. And one ERP will be a great help because we'll have one system, unified processes and of course, need less people for doing the tasks.

But you're absolutely right. It needs to be managed, but we are confident that we can manage the uptick without adding overheads.

And to your first question, it's a little bit difficult to answer because we don't calculate an overall capacity utilization. It's different between the businesses. But I would say that we are roughly at around 70% of installed capacity.

So belting fully booked at the moment, which is good, hoses, we are operating basically to the shift system. So we are basically at capacity with a 15-shift model, but we can go back up to a 21-shift model. So there's plenty of machinery in our park once we start it. And of course, don't forget, we have our project DH5, which is basically almost fully automated hose factory that we plan on bringing online as well, which is online already, but utilizing fully.

And in the form business, we are pretty well booked in mountain applications, fully booked in compression molding and have some spare capacities when it comes to the project business for railway systems because, of course, railway projects were stopped for temporarily.

Okay. That's very helpful. And last question relates to, say, the sphere of U.S. tariffs, U.S. dollar impact. Firstly, is it correct to assume that the entire effect is suggested in the financial result, do I remember correctly?

We have some impact, of course, also in revenues. That was not the major impact. But of course, we have a dollar cash pool. I mean, we have EUR 100 million business in the U.S. just for the legacy businesses or including Rico. So we have some effects. And I think the cash effect of that was about EUR 2 million and EUR 4.2 million was the overall FX effects, majority of it being the U.S. dollar.

Okay. And on the impact of tariffs on your overall trading conditions on volumes not being shipped into the U.S. from your peers. So volumes diverted or back into European markets. Anything you can tell us about these conditions?

Not so much really because, I mean, you clearly saw the effect of the U.S. foreign trade regime change in our Q1 results when basically all the projects in Belting came to a halt where we should have produced. So this was a major impact. I think our estimate was about EUR 8 million on this, but it's probably right now in hindsight.

The impact in the other businesses is basically a little impact on margin. But on volumes, so far, not really. It's more a margin impact that you somehow have to split or take over the customs duties, particularly with long-length hoses where we have the plan to build up the local production in the U.S.

Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question. I would now like to turn the conference back over to Mr. Stanek for any closing remarks.

Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you for your time and participation. We still have several weeks to go. But we all know no time tends to fly. So we already wish you now a wonderful holiday season. And of course, we remain available for any questions at any time, and we will speak again in this circuit at the latest when we present our full year 2025 results on March 18.

Well, it sounds a little early to wish you a happy holiday, but I don't think we will hear each other again. So please allow me to do so.

Okay. All the best.

Thank you.

Ladies and gentlemen, the conference is now over. Thank you for choosing Chorus Call, and thank you for participating in the conference. You may now disconnect your lines. Goodbye.

So hello, everyone, and a warm welcome to the Austrian Air Conference. So it's a real pleasure to have you all here today for that specific roundtable of the Semperit AG Holding. And in this case, I'm really delighted to have the Director of Investor Relations, Judit Helenyi, here with us. So she will guide us through the presentation and give us some insights about Semperit. And yes, I would say we're looking forward, Judit, to the presentation, and the stage is yours.

Thank you very much. Thank you for having me here, and thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for your interest. As you have heard, my name is Judit Helenyi. I'm heading the Investor Relations team here at Semperit. And I'm happy to guide you through a brief introduction to Semperit and some updates about the half year numbers, and then I'm really happy to take your questions. So then let's jump into it. Who are we? What are we doing? How we see ourselves?

We say we are a leading industrial elastomer specialist with a diversified product portfolio. And here, we see ourselves as a global pioneer. We have the production of high-quality elastomer applications. Elastomer, it's just because not just rubber, but also similar chemical products. And we have a history of [indiscernible] more than 200 years. We've had our 200th birthday celebration in December 2024. So we are an old lady, but we see ourselves as an agile close to start-up company because we reinvent the ideas, how we see ourselves, and we are able to adapt to changing times, changing demands.

So we are constantly expanding our global footprint. We have a technologically value-added innovation approach here, and we say we keep the word of our customers running. So it might sound a little bit too abstract. So let's go into some deep diving what we really do have products. You might not be aware of, but we have a lot of products that you might have been in contact or very likely have been in contact. If you start your day, you wake up, you get out of bed, you may go and take a shower. We do have silicone mats for shower heads. This is produced in Rico in our elastomer production site in Upper Austria.

If you go to the kitchen and make yourself a coffee, then the coffee machine has parts that are again made out of silicone that are produced by us. If you then go and make your way to the work, then you might have an escalator where you have the hand rails. And here, every third hand rail worldwide is produced by Semperit. So the likelihood that you've had our handrails in your hand is very high. Then you might take the underground or the train, we have parts for the doors of the underground. There are safety first security parts so that it's not closing and not closing you in between.

So these are relevant parts that you can commute safely or there are also parts for the railway system where we have [ silent ] pads and parts for the railways themselves that are having dampening functions on the one hand for a smoother railway experience, but also for a more quiet experience. Then you get to your offices or to maybe a beautiful building like the [indiscernible] and then you have the ceilings and the facades that are coming from us. So all the facades, if you are take a look -- taking a look at your windows, you will have the ceilings in between them. And it sounds like an easy task, but it isn't because you have to adopt to the different types of ceilings and different types of window closing systems. So this is something that we are also doing. You are also seeing some other pictures here of important elements for yellow goods. These are hydraulic hoses. This is how you transfer energy. This is really [ craft. ] This is withstanding a very high number -- a very high pressure.

So if you compare a tire has [ 2 bar ] and these hoses that you have in these yellow goods are having more than 200, sometimes even 1,000 bars. So this is a very specific, even though it looks like very easy. We also have industrial hoses, I am sorry, that are then used for transporting materials. So be beer, milk, gas, we have [ fueling ] system at the airports, you name it, we can do it. Then we also have important parts for healthcare and life science.

So for example, again, with the silicone product, we have very, very nano microsized parts for insulin pumps or for eye surgeries that needs to be very precise, and we are able to do that in a high amount of products produced at once. And if you are thinking about [indiscernible] we are also producing for mountains and winter and summer time. In the mountains, we are producing ski foils that makes the skis more elastic. We are also producing cable car rings so that you are transferred to the mountain up the hill in a smooth and safe way.

And we are also having snow groomer parts. So we are represented in very large pieces of your word, which you might not know, but yes, we are still there. So having said that, let me just continue of how we see ourselves. What we say our vision is to address globally challenging dimensions and developments, and we try to add value with our applications. We are just not producing volume products but also try to support our customers' needs.

[ Where ] we say we are focusing on where we can, of course, profit from are the important megatrends, climate change, demographics, urbanization, mobility, electrification. We do see ourselves in a leading market position. That means that we are aiming always for leading positions that's supposed to be at least top 3. We want to be on the technological edge. So what we can add here to a customer's product has a technological know-how, even though it's just rubber, but it's not just [ dumped ] rubber.

So we have a huge knowledge here. We have 200 years of knowledge in the background, and we have a huge collection of recipes. So we know how to mix all the parts that they get the right qualification, the right properties so that we can serve the demand of the customers. We have a resilient business model. As you see, even though we, of course, just like many other colleagues in the business face economic cooldowns and challenges, we have a resilient model here because we can balance it.

And we know that when there are cooldowns, then we can focus on our homework and then prepare for the upcycles. And then, of course, we have a strong industrial platform here and focus on a very lean management so that we are able to serve the demand in a very lean and efficient way. So the mission of ours, what we see here is being a global leader with advanced and sustainable elastomer materials and solutions. So how we are set up? The company is, as you have seen, we have very different products that we are offering to our customers. We have said that we have to focus on the strength of the product and our knowledge behind it.

And we said, okay, you cannot manage everything on a very divided base because then you're losing yourself, but you cannot manage everything like more of the same because they are diverse. So we said there are two major types, and they are grouped in two major divisions. One is the Semperit Industrial Applications. Here, we aim for cost leadership and to harvest volume businesses. What we see here is the hoses, the ceilings and the types of products that are produced in huge volumes. And we are able to focus here on cost leadership, but we also know the needs of our customers.

So we are not just producing volume-wise, but also addressing the specific requirements. We have here a low complexity because we say this is a business that you have to drive volume-wise and therefore, you need to reduce complexity. But on the other hand, you can focus then on those products that are profitable in a stronger manner. We have qualified sales team. We have a very strong contact with our customers so that we know how they are evolving. That is also good for us because that enables us to know how to drive the utilization and the quantities that we are offering. And we have here a high-degree of unification, again, in order to have a higher efficiency here.

So we say it's a Commodity business. And it's not a problem for us to say commodity, even though it's sometimes not a nice word. But we say if you know that you are in a Commodity business and you know how to play in a Commodity business, then you are well positioned here. And we feel here like we are well positioned. We are having top numbers in the market. We are the top market leader in terms of [ hose-only ] producers, and we have a very good knowledge about the business here, like what you will see here is that we are in an economic cooldown phase right now, but we see the first signs that it is supposed to improve.

And the other side of the coin, Semperit Engineered Applications. This is a completely different [ part. ] Here, we are working in attractive niche businesses. We are specializing on attractive niches. Here, we say we are having very good EBITDA margins and are able to develop the products together with our customers. We are leveraging on our know-how. We are having a very strong customer focus so that we are looking around where customers might be and what their demands are and find the right solutions. And then we can knock on their doors and say, we know what your problem is, but we do already have a solution that is feasible, is cost efficient and that solves your problem or eases your life.

Maybe you don't have to have 3 or 4 production steps, but you can reduce it to 1 or 2 and so on and so forth. So we are very strongly collaborating here with the customers. We have a very strong R&D focus here. And the sales team is, as you can imagine, again, very qualified and is focusing very strongly on a good content with our customers and potential customers. So here, it is important that we find the right product market combinations and develop those. The businesses that are under these engineered solutions are the silicone solutions. Everything that is made out of silicone is here. We have the [ belting ] systems here.

And we have the Form business that has, for example, the mountain applications that also has the traffic parts, the railway systems and these are then the parts that are really focusing on more niche-like parts. So how did we get here? We have, of course, I've already said, of more than 200 years behind us. But just what happened recently is that we have reshaped the focus where we want to go and decided to separate from our Sempermed divisions that was -- that were the divisions producing gloves, surgical and examination gloves. We have finalized that separation in 2003.

And finally, 2004, it was done in 2 steps. In 2003, we acquired Rico, the silicone producer, where we see that it has a very strong upside, not merely because we say it has synergies. Admittingly, it's not a synergy story. It is because it has a lot of kind of add-on possibilities, things that cannot be served by rubber, but you need similar qualifications, you can do it via silicone. Then we had set up this divisional structure, what I have already described. And we have started in 2024 with the expansion of our Odry hoses plant in Czech Republic and in Thalheim with the liquid silicone rubber. So we are very well prepared for the next upturn.

With this, we have set up a very strong platform for further growth. This is also the target which we are aiming for. And that's why we say we are ready for growth once the market is coming back where we see the first signs. So how we can grow? We can, of course, grow on the one hand, via M&A, which we are constantly monitoring. On the other hand, you can grow by your own. So this is what we do here with hoses. We have in the Czech Republic, the Odry site, and we are expanding like you can see in the red brackets, a new plant set up. And this is going to be a very highly automated, very modern plant. It is going to have a high -- a very high level of ESG criteria also included.

So this is going to be kind of a benchmark for all the other parts of the hose production. We have here the capacity expansions to be finalized by 2030, and that's supposed to be then 24 million meters produced all-in-all by the company. The ramp-up of the production has already started, and it is now ongoing in '25 and the full capacity will be reached by 2030. We have approximately an investment for the entire capacity expansion of EUR 100 million and EUR 50 million have been already invested by now. So the other EUR 50 million is planned to come in the next years by the end of 2030, the latest.

So the high level of automation and sustainable operation is something where we cannot just profit from in terms of green targets, but also in terms of higher efficiency because that means that you need less [ man craft ] here, you need less people here, you are more flexible to adopt capacities and you have a better control of the production levels. The other own growth, sorry, story is the liquid silicone rubber in Thalheim. Here, we bought the Rico, the company already with a half-finished plant. So it was already planning to expand, and we see this part, again, as a platform for growth because we can fill this plant step-by-step as the demand is coming back.

We have an investment of EUR 25 million here that is completed and further market-driven ramp-up is planned so that -- sorry, the machines are coming step-by-step once the demand is there. Having said that, again, what other growth platforms do we see for ourselves? I have already mentioned the product market combinations, which are not necessarily new plants, but these are new fields where you can expand. One field is what we have just recently started is heavy-duty rubber material parts for mining applications. These are big mills where you are using huge rubber sheets to cover the mills.

And depending on how high the granularity is, the better or the less good you can kind of filter the stone and the material. So at the end of the day, you start, of course, with a very rough system, and it comes down to a very small and very granular part. And this is how you can use those big rubber membranes in these big mills. Another part that we have also started to invent is a hybrid handrail. I hope you can see it on the picture, the difference between the 2 different handrail types. Basically, when you have a new hand rail, it's always glossy and shiny. But after 1 week, 2 weeks, 1 month, it starts to fade. It doesn't make any difference in the quality of it. It's just simply not any more shiny.

And this is a topic, especially in Asia, especially in Japan, where you have this need or not necessarily need, but the demand for the shiny thing. So the shinier it is, the longer it is shiny, the higher quality is attached to regardless if the quality is suffering or not. So what we have invented is this hybrid handrails that have part of -- put it simple, a part of plastic part, which is the mix with the rubber and it stays shiny. If you only use just really plastics, then it wouldn't last long because it would break very soon.

So this is something that we have developed for the Asian market, and this is, of course, a high-margin market here because this kind of luxury need that we are serving here. And the third field that I would like to introduce here is the Track Belt, like what I have already mentioned. We were in the mountain resource with the other products with the ski foils and with the cable car rings. And we were looking around what parts are there that are moving and that are relevant for us. And we found that the Track Belts are using actually quite a similar system like the handrails where the metal parts of these tires are hanging. So this is something where we said, okay, we can do that, and we offered it to the producers and now we are ramping up this product as well.

So what you see here is that we go around, check where the possibilities are and where is unserved demand and where can we jump in. And that's how we say with this additional and newly developed new product market combinations, we are also able to grow. These are just 3 examples. There are, of course, a huge pipeline in the background that I'm not yet allowed to talk to you. But this is a field where we see ourselves in a very strong position. These are, of course, smaller niches, but they are very profitable niches with very attractive margins. That's why we are there.

So that's the basic strategic idea of how we want to grow. And because I said that we are also in a very resilient setup, I would now show you the half year numbers that show you how we could kind of face the cooldown of the economy. We saw it starting in '23. We have started with a cost reduction program where we are strongly focusing also these days. And that's how we could manage to have still quite resilient results. So having said so, overview, half year '25. We had a really weak Q1, and we were able to speed up and gain momentum in Q2. So at the end of the day, the 2 quarters in comparison had a huge improvement at the end of the day.

We had more than 70% quarter-on-quarter improvement here. We saw a recovery in the order activities, and that is why we say this is maybe the first sign or first signs of hopefully the end of the cooldown period. What we still had is, of course, in general, a challenging environment. The market is not back yet. So all-in-all, we had an EBITDA that was down 35% compared to last year's first half year and the margin at roughly 10% compared to 14% in the last year's first half year. And all-in-all, that's also why we saw a top line pressure here so that the net income was negative. Nevertheless, what we also do see here is a very strong balance sheet with a good equity ratio of more than 45% and the reserve of more than EUR 100 million cash.

That is where we say we are in a strong position for further growth because we are able to have a solid balance and solid financing structure despite the challenges of the market. And that's why we said at the end of the day, we are confirming our guidance that we have given, and we are seeing for this year an operational EBITDA of EUR 65 million to EUR 85 million. We call it operational because there is also a chunk of extra cost that is not included in that. It's roughly EUR 5 million. This is for our oneERP project that is also reflected in the P&L and not in the balance sheet as right now.

So how does this look like on the divisions levels? If you take a look on the revenues, we've had the engineered applications in a stronger way represented. This is strongly linked to the fact that the industrial applications and the -- with the hoses and with the ceilings are currently still under pressure coming from the economic cooldown, even though we see some positive signs coming down in the order books, but this was something that was clearly visible also in the revenues. And on the other hand, we saw the EBITDA development where the industrial applications could gain momentum compared to last year's first half year.

And this was, on the one hand, coming from a quite weak result from the [ Batting ] business. This is in the engineered applications. And on the other hand, due to the fact that the industrial applications could control the cost development in a very good manner. So some deep dive pictures, not going to go too much into details. The industrial applications, you see the cyclicality. This is the part where I say we know we are aware that it's a cyclical business, but we are in a resilient position and are able to counteract and outbalance that.

So what you see here is that we had a strong pressure coming towards end of '23. Also, '24 was under pressure, and we were able to improve the results continuously in Q1 and Q2 this year. We do have still challenging market conditions. The order situation is, on the other hand, better. At the hoses, we see mixed recovery signals. But again, that means that just -- that not just negative. With profiles, we are strongly dependent on the construction sector. This is still under pressure. Nevertheless, we might see some bottoming out here, and we might have some positive effect coming, especially from the German infrastructure that might gain speed.

With that, we had, on the one hand, divisional sales down and EBITDA compared to last year's. But all-in-all, we see the improvement coming down the road. The engineered applications, as mentioned, had a very difficult Q1, and that was actually the reason why Q1 was, in general, quite under pressure. That was mostly coming from the [ bathing ] industry and also the liquid silicone had some topics. But on the other hand, we see the results picking up. The Form business can record a slight growth year-on-year. So this is quite a stable development. [ Bad thing ] was Q1 strongly affected. Q2 had again better order intake. So we see also the improvements here.

And LSR, the liquid silicone rubber is again seeing some recovery in here, not just the products themselves, but also the tool making where we're also involved with, which is also an important part here. So having these 2 parts combined gives us a good and resilient business model. How the financials did develop? We had the cost-cutting measures working. We had a free cash flow of close to EUR 14 million. The cash reserves, I've already mentioned of almost EUR 113 million with a very healthy net financial EBITDA level of 1.7x.

We do have the oneERP project ongoing. As mentioned, this is a digital transformation and very relevant and where the first steps are going to be rolled out this autumn. And of course, worth mentioning here the dividend payment that we could pay to our shareholders of EUR 0.50 per share for the year '24. Just a quick picture about the key financial numbers. As mentioned, we have seen the first half year '24 being under pressure. That is reflected in the numbers. But what we also saw here, which is not shown here, is that we clearly see an improvement comparing Q1 to Q2.

So all-in-all, this is also the reason why we said we are keeping our guidance as it is stated. The next picture should just give you a brief impression of how our cost measures did work out. You saw here the last 12-month long-term development of the industrial revenues compared to the operating EBITDA margins here. And what you can clearly see here is that when we started with the cost reduction measures in '23, we could strongly drive the EBITDA margin to a positive development. And you see the dotted line would have been if we hadn't done anything. The dotted line stops because we have put the measures into day-to-day operation, and it's not any more monitored on the separate basis, but we are, of course, aware that the margin development is strongly supported by these cost reduction measures.

What is relevant here that we say even though we see the cooldown, the economic cooldown in the last 2 years, we focused on the things that we can control, and we can change. And that's why we said we were steering capacity utilization, and we streamlined fixed costs here, and that is the relevant part of what happened during the last quarters. Just a brief picture of how the EBITDA bridge was influenced compared versus last year. As you can see, the major part is the volume effect that hit us.

And on the other hand, you see the upside coming from inventory changes, from cost reduction, coming from consulting and warranties and others and also the price and product mix that we could improve. And the EUR 2.2 million that you see at the end of the chart is the project cost for oneERP that is then shown separately so that you have the reported versus the operating EBITDA.

So all-in-all, we would have reached EUR 33 million if it wasn't for the oneERP. Just a quick picture to the working capital levels. I told you that we have a very strong position, and I think that gives you a good picture. The working capital put in relation to the revenues shows you that we have a strong balance here, even though we have a slight increase, I think 16.3% is something that is very good and a very good benchmark also in the industries. Of course, we try to steer the inventories, trade receivables and payables as optimum as possible. And yes, it's a financial presentation. Cash is king, and that's why we strongly focus on the cash generation here.

What you see here is that we were able, despite the strong pressure coming from the market to generate EUR 14 million free cash flow. And we did also have a very disciplined spending in comparison with that. We had reduced maintenance CapEx and also the growth CapEx was under control so that all-in-all, we had EUR 18.5 million, and that's also how we could gain and manage to have net financial debt/EBITDA ratio at just 1.7x. The balance sheet picture is again showing this resilient setup. We had the cash equivalents. We had repaid our Schuldschein by the end of July. We had financial liabilities at EUR 230 million (sic) [ EUR 231 million ], stable compared to last year's level. Financial debt was again not strongly improved and not increased, and that's how we could get to this very good balance at the end of the day and have an equity ratio of 45%.

And yes, this is again a financial presentation to investors. What do we do with the money? What is capital allocation for us? On the one hand, of course, you have to have the maintenance CapEx that is necessary that you're not losing your business and you are able to up and run and answer the demand of the market. So we had a maintenance CapEx of EUR 13 million. On the other hand, we had growth CapEx and digitalization of EUR 5.5 million. This is important because this is the platform where we can then grow from when the market is kicking back.

We are focusing on opportunistic bolt-on acquisitions. But for the time being, there is nothing reportable there. Nevertheless, we are checking the market. It's not going to be big acquisitions, but bolt-on ones that are interesting for us. This might be a successor question for solar family companies or this might be also a structuring story. I think we have shown that we are able to restructure business very well. So these are the ideas that we have in mind here. And of course, last but not least, the dividends where we had paid a dividend of EUR 10 million in 2025 for the year 2024.

So what is the outlook right now? We said we see the recovery in H2. It is supported by the order situation. We still see, on the other hand, the uncertainty. It is still high level, and it's still not yet over. The cost-cutting measures are being continued and are being successful. All-in-all we had, I think, more than EUR 20 million saved in the basic like-for-like comparison. And the medium-term clear positive drivers are clearly there. We see the infrastructure projects. We see rising defense expenditures. So we see the potential coming from the market. Therefore, we are confirming the operational EBITDA at EUR 25 million (sic) [ EUR 65 million ] to EUR 85 million.

The project expenses for oneERP are stated at EUR 5 million, as already mentioned. And the CapEx is expected to be at EUR 50 million in this year with a split of EUR 35 million to EUR 15 million maintenance versus strategic growth CapEx. And yes, we are almost at the end, but I would not like to leave the presentation without showing you the 5 reasons why you might consider to interest in Semperit -- to invest in Semperit. We are a leading global market producer of elastomer applications with a very strong industrial base. We do have a very strong focus on innovation and technology. As already mentioned, we are offering solutions. We have a resilient business model. I think the numbers are proving this thesis very well.

And operating leverage is very important. What we had seen in the first half year was the other side of the coin, the negative, but on the other hand, when the markets are coming back, is supposed to have a very strong positive effect on the results. The strong balance sheet is a very stable development and the cash generation capacity despite the market challenges, I think, is a very visible sign. And yes, we are a value play with recalibrated global platform for future growth. This is it from my side, and I'm happy to take your questions at this point.

Thank you so much for the detailed presentation, Judit, and the deep dive into what makes Semperit so special. So ladies and gentlemen, we're now happy to take your questions. [Operator Instructions] [ If you would like to speak directly to Judit, you can raise up your virtual hands and then -- you are able to unmute yourself and for sure you can ask or submit your questions in our Q&A section and then we will read them up for you. ] And already having said that, I see we have 2 questions by now. So let's start with the first one. How are your capacities currently utilized? And to what extent will growth investments add to your capacity?

Thank you for your question. The capacities are, as you might imagine, currently not fully utilized. We are -- depending on which part we are talking about, we are down to partially, I think, 70% and upwards. It is, again, very strongly depending on which businesses we are talking about. Of course, the ceilings are right now still under pressure, hoses are picking up. We had the Project business of belts, transport valves. This is very much moving with the project. We had some capacity reductions here.

Form is performing really well and the Silicone business is again picking up, too. So the question is directing at the right point. We are not at full capacity utilization right now, but the -- and trends are moving upwards. Sorry, just the second part, investment added to the capacities. On the one hand, we have -- just let me jump there. The -- oops sorry.

For Odry, the hose capacities, we will expand to 24 million. And here, we had, I think, 20 something. So this is something very, very significant, especially as it is going to be a very efficient part. With Thalheim expansion, it's hard to say because it's depending on what products you are producing. So it will clearly add to the capacities, and it is -- it has already started to add to the capacities, but it's hard to quantify. I'm sorry for that.

All right. Thank you. And the second question by now is, to what extent was the second quarter boosted by pull-forward effects in view of the U.S. tariffs?

I would say it wasn't very much the second quarter boosted, but the first quarter under pressure. We had some signs in Q1 where some project delays were there or some projects that were having a different timing, and that was something that put some pressure on there. We had some delays due to kind of still waiting for the development of the customers. So that wasn't pull-forward.

It was just wait and see, and it started to come in the second quarter. So all-in-all, I think, the tariffs were not yet that much affecting us. We see it, and we are clearly checking it how the effects are evolving, but it has, again, plus and minus effect because sometimes you can produce something in the states that makes life easier. Sometimes you have to import it to satisfy demand. So it is something that is not that easy to kind of quantify again, but it wasn't really much a pull-forward effect coming from the U.S. tariffs.

All right. Thank you so much. So let's take a look at the queue. But by now, we have no virtual hands and no further questions. So dear participants with still a couple of seconds or minutes time, if you would like to speak to Judit and submit your question -- and it seems, Judit, you explained everything so well, there are no open topics left.

I was trying.

Yes, really good. So yes, and then I would say we will come to the end of today's roundtable. So maybe if a question arise at a later time, I guess, Judit, all the investors are free to contact you.

Happy to answer all the questions.

Absolutely. So thank you from my side, from our side. It was a pleasure to be your host. And also a big thank you to you, Judit, for your time and for presenting Semperit to us. I wish you all a lovely remaining day. And Judit, the final remarks belongs to you.

Thank you very much. I cannot add a lot. Thank you very much for your interest. Thank you for the questions. I hope I could raise interest. I hope I could introduce you to Semperit as a very agile despite 20 --- 200 years, a very agile company. And I'm happy to see you in real life or in other online platforms and answer your questions. So feel free to get back to me. Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Thank you very much, and welcome, everybody, to our results call for the first 2 quarters of 2025. With me today is our CFO, Helmut Sorger. As always, we will guide you through the earnings presentation, which is available on our website, followed by a Q&A session.

On Page 3 of the slide deck, I provide a brief summary of the highlights. After a subdued start of the year, with January and February being particularly weak, we significantly picked up speed in the second quarter. This is reflected in a clear improvement in EBITDA, which increased from EUR 11.1 million in Q1 to EUR 19.6 million in Q2. This is a 77% improvement. As already mentioned during the previous call, orders recovered after a slow start to the year.

During the first quarter, we primarily experienced the impact of project delays by customers in the conveyor belt and the liquid silicon rubber industries. We have now caught up. Overall, both our order book at the end of June and our order intake for the first 6 months are higher than last year's comparable figures.

Nevertheless, the challenging environment of the first half of the year meant that we were unable to fully compensate for the weaker start. The 7% decline in sales translated into EBITDA down by 35% and a margin of 9.6% compared with 13.7% last year. This disproportional decline in EBITDA reflects our high operating leverage. Conversely, when demand rises, it will have a strong positive effect.

Further down the P&L, earnings after taxes turned negative to EUR 11.2 million. Overall, however, Semperit remains on a very solid financial footing with an equity ratio of 45.5% and around EUR 113 million in cash at the end of June. We are, therefore, confirming our guidance for operating EBITDA, which means excluding costs for our digitalization project at between EUR 65 million and EUR 85 million for 2025.

Turning the page, you see the shift in revenue and EBITDA year-on-year for our 2 divisions, Semperit Industrial Applications and Semperit Engineered Applications, showing graphically the impact of some of the latest economic trends.

Due to the performance of the SEA segment in the first quarter, the current ratio of revenue and EBITDA contribution is unbalanced with SEA delivering 58% of sales and 38% of EBITDA. However, it has already improved since the end of March, and we will come back to a more balanced share in revenues and earnings in the course of the next quarters.

Starting with the operational update on Semperit Industrial Applications at Slide 5, we see a continuation in margin recovery since the final quarter of 2024 to around 19% in the second quarter on the back of cost reduction and better equipment utilization. Overall, the markets are still challenging. Sales were down by 4.7% and EBITDA declining by 19.2% year-on-year with margins slightly lower, but still resilient at 18.1%.

The overall order situation has improved compared to the same period last year, primarily driven by hoses. In our hoses business, we are currently receiving mixed signals from OEMs regarding a recovery.

Nevertheless, our direct customer business indicates that their reduction in inventory may have come to an end, and this is already reflected in a slight recovery in order intake, which continued in the second quarter. Consequently, both order intake and order backlog at the end of June exceeded the levels seen in the first half of 2024.

In turn, Profiles continues to suffer from the weak construction industry, but leading indicators such as German building permits should now have reached the lowest point by now. However, due to the time lag between approval and the start of a building project, it will take some time before this will be reflected in our order books.

On the next slide, Semperit Engineered Applications show a significant recovery in the second quarter. As we emphasized in our last call, we viewed the project delays that primarily affected the Belting division and the liquid silicon rubber tooling in the first quarter as a temporary effect.

The order situation improved in the months since March. Overall, however, this was not enough to fully compensate for the weak start of the year. Segment sales were down 9% year-on-year. This resulted in a decline in EBITDA by 46.9% compared with the same period of last year.

As to business units, Form managed a slight growth year-on-year with strong mountain applications and an improving demand for filter membranes. Markets for handrails show a mixed picture with Europe doing pretty well, U.S. stabilizing and subdued demand in China.

Belting had a very strong order intake in May and June, bringing the order backlog above last year's level. The focus now lies on working through these orders thoroughly. In addition, we work on initiatives to further improve our margins and bring new products to the market.

Rico, respectively, our liquid silicon rubber business increased its EBITDA on the back of stable revenues, driven primarily by the second quarter and by cost savings. The order situation in the tool shop also has improved. This has laid a good foundation for future capacity utilization in the production of liquid silicon rubber parts. In this business, we are focused on strengthening our competitive market position and broadening our customer base.

With this, I would now like to hand over to Helmut to take us through the financials.

Thank you, Manfred, and also a warm welcome from me. Let me start with the highlights on Slide 7. As you know, our financial framework is built on strong foundations, and I want to reaffirm that our unwavering commitment to generate free cash flow, maintaining a resilient balance sheet and proactively managing working capital is not just strategy, it's strength, particularly in times like this, it makes a difference.

The cost initiatives that we started in 2023 have proven to be necessary and have supported our margins. We continued them in the first half of this year, which had a slightly negative impact due to restructuring provisions, but we definitely expect positive momentum in the second half of the year.

Financially, we're in good shape. We have cash reserves of around EUR 113 million and a very solid balance sheet with a conservative leverage ratio. We also have the capacity to take on more debt to fund further growth.

In addition, we are investing in the digitalization of the group with our oneERP lighthouse project, which is on schedule and on budget. And last but not least, we've paid a dividend of EUR 0.50 per share or EUR 10.3 million in total on April 30th to our shareholders.

The next slide summarizes the main items of our P&L and other key financial indicators in comparison to the same period last year. As you'll recall from our last call, we suggested using the first quarter as a proof of our operating leverage, sales were down 14%. EBITDA was down 52% in the first 3 months. While the situation has improved when comparing the first 6 months, the markets are still troublesome. This is not unexpected.

We clearly indicated that the first half of the year would be difficult and difficult it is. Revenues are down 7%. EBITDA is down 35% year-on-year. So the second quarter showed good momentum, but was not enough to offset the weak start to the year. And as already mentioned, we were also burdened by restructuring provisions and personnel expenses, but this will enable us to further reduce our fixed cost.

You will recall that we've included operational EBITDA underneath reported EBITDA to highlight the impact of our oneERP project. For the full year 2025, we estimate project costs for this business transformation and digitalization initiative amounting to EUR 5 million with EUR 2.2 million already spent over the first 2 quarters in 2025.

Regular depreciation increased slightly due to our growth investments. EBIT additionally was impacted by a value adjustment on intangible assets of EUR 3.3 million. This was related to the acquired customer base in our LSR Rico business. When we bought Rico in 2023, we purchased customer relationships, which are amortized over the expected useful life.

We've now reviewed and adjusted these because individual customers refrain from ordering due to overall economic activity or have in-sourcing plans for the parts production. EBITDA thus amounted to EUR 2.6 million.

The financial result was impacted by negative currency effects resulting from the weaker U.S. dollar in the amount of just under EUR 4 million, bringing earnings after tax to around minus EUR 11 million.

Further down the table, free cash flow came in at EUR 13.9 million. Overall CapEx was halved to EUR 18.5 million year-on-year, both for maintenance and for strategic growth investments, which is another lever we have under our control when things are temporarily getting tougher.

Turning the page and plotting the last 12-month industrial revenues against the operating EBITDA margin, margins were down from 14.8% in the fourth quarter 2024 to 12.5%. This is primarily attributable to the fact that margins in the first half of 2024 were above the level of the second half of the year. With that top line pressure should now have bottomed out as should have margins.

When looking at the year-on-year EBITDA bridge on Slide 10, the steep decline in volumes could not be offset by price mix and other measures like cost savings. Cost of materials, services, energy went slightly up year-on-year and the seasonal inventory buildup was the major offsetting factor in that period. As we had introduced our operating EBITDA to account for ongoing project costs for oneERP, the difference to reported EBITDA amounted to EUR 2.2 million.

Over the page, we present the constituent parts of our working capital management with an improvement compared to the situation a year ago. In total, trade working capital as a percentage of our last 12-month revenues was down at 16.3% after 17.7% % last year. Compared to the end of the year, we see a slight increase, which is mainly due to seasonal inventory buildup. The extension of our payment terms is clearly reflected in the development of trade payables.

The bridge chart for year-on-year net financial debt development on Page 12 shows that the free cash flow generation largely covered our CapEx for growth projects and the dividend payment. Overall, net financial debt increased in absolute terms by around EUR 15 million. Given the lower EBITDA in the first half year, net debt-to-EBITDA was up slightly at 1.7x, still a comfortable level, but an increase compared with 1.2x at the end of 2024.

At EUR 113 million, cash was slightly below the year-end level with financial liabilities remaining stable. As announced, we repaid the maturing tranche of the Schuldscheindarlehen in the amount of EUR 31 million from our own funds at the end of July. Our revolving credit facility of EUR 100 million has not yet been utilized and remains fully available.

Finally, I finish my presentation with the priorities of capital allocation and usage of cash, which you are certainly familiar with now in conceptual terms. Without going into detail for each component, the important thing is that we managed to reduce maintenance and growth CapEx to around EUR 18.5 million, given the overall market condition. We feel it's prudent to pull this lever, which is in our control.

Having said that, I'm still pleased that we could reward our shareholders with EUR 0.50 a share dividend, which was paid out April 30th. This is a signal to our investors about our confidence in the business model as a future growth platform.

With this, I've come to the end of my part of the presentation and would like to hand back to Manfred for the outlook.

Thank you very much, Helmut, and let me finish our presentation with the outlook for the remaining year 2025. As we have mentioned, we gained traction in the second quarter and continued to sharpen our cost structure, and we are confident that market dynamics will begin to support us in the second half of this year.

In the SEA segment, we are already seeing a positive momentum from our customers' restocking, which is a trend, which we expect to persist. So for example, if a customer recently processed 100 meters of hose, they would only reorder around 85 meters. We are now returning to an environment, where they will reorder the full 100 meters. Our focus here is now on output and further gains in share of wallet.

While the construction industry, which is important for our Profiles business, is expected to turn around in 2026, we do not think that this will benefit us majorly in the short term. Overall, we made significant progress in optimizing the costs, and we also intend to expand our Profiles business with U.S. customers. The seals are manufactured on site in our U.S. production unit in Newnan, Georgia.

The order situation in the SEA division has recovered significantly. The main priority here is now to process and ship everything in the second half of the year, particularly in the Belting business. So overall, we expect a recovery in the second half of the year, although uncertainties naturally remain high.

Against this backdrop, we confirm our guidance for operating EBITDA to be in the range of EUR 65 million to EUR 85 million in 2025 and will, of course, narrow this range further down in the second -- in the course of the year.

With regard to CapEx, we should be in the region of EUR 50 million. Nevertheless, we are able to adapt our investments to the market environment. However, our work does not only focus on Semperit's organic growth, we are also working on inorganic growth and screening the market for opportunistic acquisition opportunities. These must, of course, leverage our existing business and create synergies without making our portfolio more complex. Such opportunities could arise from companies facing succession issues or offering interesting restructuring prospects.

Finally, before we finish the presentations, let me just recall our 5 investment propositions with a key focus on market leadership, innovation and our resilient business model with high operating leverage. When the market recovers, we will benefit disproportionately, and our strong platform puts us in an excellent position for future growth.

And now Helmut and I are available for any questions you might have. So if I may turn it back to the operator, if you would please start with the Q&A procedures.

[Operator Instructions] And we also have the first question coming from the line of Markus Remis from ODDO BHF.

I'd like to start with a question on the order dynamics. And maybe you can shed some light on how they developed over the -- or past Q2. So over the summer months, I know we're in the middle of August, and it's seasonally a lower kind of lower activity period. But is it kind of at the same dynamic level that you were just elaborating on?

Well, if I may answer this question, Markus, we saw that the order intake gradually picked up, I would say, starting with April, and this continued throughout the month with an increased trend over the months, April, May, June and also is continuing in July. And this is valid for almost all our businesses.

I think only the Profiles business, as we have mentioned, the construction industry is still lagging behind. But even in the Profiles business, and I'm not talking about the month of July, the order intake was higher than July of last year. So basically, in all the businesses, we saw an uptick in order intake starting in Q2, which has gradually increased over the course of Q2. And now as we said, our order book is considerably stronger than it was in the same period of the last year.

Okay. Very comforting to hear. Now with regards to the revenue generation in the second half, does it mean that, well, as of Q3, there's going to be a plus in terms of year-on-year growth on the revenue line?

Yes. I mean, basically, if you take our last year comparables, Markus, you certainly see that we had a very solid first half of the year and then basically some delaying effect kicking in, in the second half of the year. So in order to make math work and in order to see conversion of our order book into revenues, we have high hopes in a good Q3 and Q4. But Q4, you never know what weather does and shipping activity does, yes.

What you certainly also have to bear in mind, sometimes it's mundane issues like cutoff dates when a container gets out of the bonded warehouse, it's considerable values that you have, whether -- if you have that at quarter end, of course, it shifts a little bit. But we're hopeful.

Okay. Very clear. Then I would have a question with regards to the CapEx number that you cut from EUR 60 million to EUR 50 million. I mean, is there any specific growth project that you postponed because, I mean, growth is also -- growth CapEx is giving kind of future revenue and earnings growth. Is it to cut? Or is it a delay or shift into 2026?

It's a period shift primarily. One growth project in the project business with regard to railway systems is, of course, dependent on when this investment in the U.S. is taking place when they are building this railroad. And therefore, we adjusted growth CapEx to some degree. But pushing maintenance out and then using period cutover.

Okay. So EUR 60 million might be a good benchmark for 2026 then?

No.

No. What would be the benchmark guidance yet there.

Sorry, that was [ basically ] hard to understand.

For 2026, we have not given a CapEx guidance yet. We -- Markus, we are working on the budget, on strategy, basically utilizing all the opportunities, and we'll come up with that in Q3.

All right. Understood. And sorry, just going -- yes, in terms of pricing, I know it's difficult to summarize overall these products, but maybe you can give us some feeling on kind of the pricing dynamics so we get a sense, okay, volume is picking up, to which extent is that also coming already with some, I don't know, better pricing? Or is it purely volume driven?

Well, it really depends now almost on the business and on the product. I mean we have -- what I can say is we have a very proactive pricing management. So we have products, where we are increasing our prices. I could say that out of the EUR 345 million in revenues, maybe EUR 3 million come from pricing initiatives overall, I would say.

But we have some businesses, I would say, a little bit more than half of our businesses, we managed to increase our prices, but we also had businesses, where we had to decrease our prices. But overall, you could say 1% from revenue increase -- so from revenue comes through price increases.

And then final question, again, turning to Helmut, please. On the working capital development, is it fair to say that like with more now growth coming through, it will be difficult to achieve an operating cash flow in excess of this EUR 50 million CapEx?

Look, we started an intense focus on working capital about this time last year. And we did structural measures. We did financial measures to do that negotiations with suppliers. And we see this is gaining momentum in the organization. So there's really a change of processes.

Referring to what's the potential, you saw, of course, the seasonal uptick. But related to our revenues and related to activity, we're confident to be able to hold these tight targets. Of course, safety aspects are -- safety stocks are of more importance when you see business activity picking up, but we try to stay on top of these things. And we have our focus not only on cost, but also on working capital.

So if you say EUR 50 million on CapEx spend, this is one of the levers to reduce and push CapEx out. The other one is clearly to stay on top of working capital. If that answers your question, Markus.

Yes, I was more of the direction, if you think that the operating cash flow would be sufficient to cover this EUR 50 million. to put it very directly, given that now growth is kicking in.

Yes, because the operating leverage that you've seen as an inverse in the first quarter and also continuing in Q2 with much less momentum. If we see the volumes turn, then, of course, you have the uptick in EBITDA and also in operating cash. clearly.

The next question comes from the line of Marc-René Tonn from Warburg Research.

First one was coming back on the impairment we have seen at the [ LSI ] (sic) [ LSR ] business. And perhaps you could give us some assurance, I think probably you have done this impairment in this size. They made a very comprehensive view on the -- on your balance sheet figures with regard to Rico. Could you give us some indication on what would have to happen to cause some additional impairments there or whether you are now very confident to be in a comfortable position going forward regarding these balance sheet figures? That's the first question. I will follow on with the other ones later on.

Thank you for the question. I mean we have intangibles identified for the acquisition of the Rico business, one of them being the customer base. This is -- the valuation is based on the customer revenues as of 2023 with customers that we -- customer relations that we purchased.

Now the impairment of EUR 3.3 million is basically on top of the amortization of this customer base. We amortize it over 25 years because historically, Rico had a very low churn rate.

And with regard to specific customers, we saw the order activity just dropped because of basically economic activity and that led to an impairment trigger for that customer base and for the Rico business. We identified a valuation loss of this EUR 3.3 million on top of the amortization.

But on the other hand, we were able to compensate the lost revenues with new business because as Manfred has said, revenues with Rico year-on-year are flat and profitability is even better. So we also did, of course, an impairment test since Rico was below our budgeted figures due to the lower -- to the lower tool production rather, not the call-offs were good in parts production, but the lower tool demand.

And now we have basically good order activity for the tool shop and the tool shop is well utilized. So we had the headroom at the end of the year that we also published, and we have a remaining headroom for this.

All the deficiencies that we saw from negative budget deviations we put into the planning. So what's next is every summer, we do strategy with Rico. There's a strategy project that Manfred is leading together with the Rico management to get his expertise in, of course, from injection molding. And of course, we evaluate and do the business plan as every year. But at the moment, we have a headroom, a slight headroom, but there is a headroom. I hope that answers your question.

It does. Second question would be, given Continental's announcement to -- following the spin-off of the automotive business to also review its shareholding in ContiTech probably going into next year, whether you feel any impact of this decision with regard when you talk to customers, whether they are, let's say, due to a certain degree of uncertainty perhaps more open to do business with you or whether there's anything, which comes from that? Or is it just simply not affecting you by any means at all?

Well, we don't have any concrete evidence that this is affecting us. If at all, I think it would affect us in a positive way, but we don't have any specific and concrete evidence that I could confirm that this is impacting us in a positive way.

And lastly, perhaps and -- sorry if I missed it, the restructuring in the personnel cost in the second quarter, did you provide a number for that?

It's a little bit more than EUR 700,000. We did not provide the number technically, yes.

The next question comes from the line of Christian Obst from Baader Bank.

I have a question concerning your hoses business. So during '24 and the start into this year, you talked about reducing workforce and lower the capacities there a little bit. Is this ongoing? Or do you have stopped that now because of the mentioned restocking and the expected further increase maybe of demand? So what is the current situation you are driving your hoses business there when it comes to capacities and to the workforce?

Yes. We are building up capacity and resources in order to produce and to ship the high order intake that we are having.

And we are hiring.

Correct.

So what -- when was the low point? Was it late spring, May, April? What was the low point of the number of employees there?

With regard to capacity, that was last year. We started basically hiring late Q4 preparing for this year and the hiring is in progress all year 2025. But of course, the new colleagues are in training now, new operators are in training that takes some time, but we're hopeful that we can keep up with demand.

Exactly. And the hiring is happening mainly in the Czech Republic, which currently has a very tight labor market, but we have all human resource measures in place to get the people on board.

Okay. And does this mean then that the average margin will be a little bit depressed at least at the beginning of the ramp-up and the new hiring going into the second half of the year?

No, we haven't really seen that because, I mean, that's already ongoing. You would have seen that in the first half of the year already, but it's more the operating leverage from the higher activity that should provide us with tailwind margin-wise.

Okay. And then when it comes to Belting, you say you have a strong order intake in May and June, and you're now preparing for shipping that properly. Before you talked about that there is a slight shift of the mix in these orders towards less favorable margins and there's an ongoing pricing pressure coming from Asian competitors. So what is the current margin quality of these orders you are getting there?

Yes. I would say the margin quality is still very volatile. We started the year with very slow margins -- with lower margins, but we were able to pick up those margins now in the second quarter, but it's still very volatile. Yes, does it answer your question?

Yes. So when it comes to the mix, is it still the case that you are -- that the order intake is from the mix less favorable than it was, let's say, 2, 3 years ago?

Compared to 2, 3 years ago, I would say, yes, that's correct.

And of course -- sorry, just to add to that, Christian. And of course, we are now nicely booked with these orders. There's good belts, heavy belts in the mix, but we also have taken orders in order to fill capacity to get a good absorption of cost, which, of course, our plant in Poland is a large site. And of course, the better you cover your fixed cost, the better off your result-wise.

Of course. And the old discussion years ago also that Belting might be some kind of a divestment part. This is nothing you are talking about now and you are looking into that. So your focus is on improving the underlying margin and profitability, right?

And I've answered it before. Everything is for sale. It just depends on the price.

But our main focus is on the margin recovery. That's correct.

[Operator Instructions] We have a follow-up question coming from the line of Markus Remis from ODDO BHF.

Yes. One follow-up on the U.S. part of the business and the impact all these tariff discussions on -- have on your business. Can you summarize if there was any tangible impact in the first half and also kind of elaborate what you bake in for the second half?

Yes. The biggest impact was the uncertainty that the U.S. administration created. And I think we've -- looking back to the first quarter, that was really a value of tears for us because we saw the order -- the contact with the customers was there, but they were just pushing the orders in order to get certainty about the situation.

Now you could like or not like the situation that we have at the moment with the 15% tariffs into the U.S. But at least it's for now certain situation that you can plan on. And I think the uptick in order activity shows, okay, at least you have some guiding principle and uncertainty is not there.

We see some positive momentum with local production of Profiles in the U.S. I mean, here, we see a clear uptick, which is certainly driven by the tariffs. On the other side, I mean, certainly, free trade helps more with industrial activity than tariffs of 15%, 30%, 50% or 100%. But the impact, I mean, it's already you've seen we adjusted our guidance to reflect the impact. Now it goes from 10% to 15%, but the major impact for us was the timing and the shift in orders.

Right. And is there any kind of change in the trade flow, meaning that, I don't know, some volumes are diverted from the U.S. into Europe. Does that create some kind of higher competitive [indiscernible].

It will happen. Let's be clear about that. It will happen. We don't see the impact, [ Manfred ] (sic) [ Markus ] at the moment, but that's certainly something that not only us will experience.

It's still a very balanced view, I think, between threat and opportunities. Some of those tariffs are a threat for us. Others are an opportunity for us. I mean, to give you a concrete specific example in Belting, we have competitors in Brazil, who now have a hard time to export to the U.S. and we have competitors in China, and it's the same thing. So this is an opportunity for us.

But at the same time, the Chinese competitors are taking other parts of the world, which is a threat. So at the end of the day, I think it's still a very balanced view between threats and opportunities, but everyone is welcoming when this -- when there's more certainty.

And to add to this, we're part of the EUR 600 billion. We already talked with you about the plans that we want to grow in the U.S. also with sites. We have 2 manufacturing sites there, but we certainly want to grow in the U.S. independent of the tariff situation.

Okay. And which parts of your business would you consider as most vulnerable, either directly or indirectly on the tariffs?

It's hard to tell. That's really hard to tell. I mean...

Yes. I would agree. There's nothing that jumps out.

[Operator Instructions] There are no more questions at this time. I would now like to turn the conference back over to Mr. Stanek for any closing remarks.

Well, my closing remarks, a big thank you for your participation, and we wish you all a wonderful rest of the summer, and we will back in November with our figures for the first 3 quarters of this year. Thank you very much.