Prosus Aktie

Welcome, everyone, to Lisbon. Thank you so much for joining us and for people joining in on the webcast. I have to tell you the back story of that corporate photo was actually taken by my brother-in-law yesterday. And he said to me, think of you murdering your husband and that evoked the genuine smile you actually saw up there. So the reason why this was done at such last notice is, unfortunately, Owen couldn't join us today, and that's because he's under a couple of feet of snow. So he will be joining us tomorrow. So we look forward to welcome him then.

But who is here today is the OLX management team. So one of the reasons we chose to do this event in the manner and in the location that you find yourself is because of a very exciting event they are hosting tomorrow. So we've already got the management team here at captive, and we thought we'd expose them to the financial community. We know all of the hot topics that you all are facing and puzzling over, and we hope to share their thoughts, their insights and their wisdom with you. So we've got a very exciting lineup. And as you know, it's very unusual to have access to Chief Data Officers, product and technology officers and then the CEO and CFO.

So without further ado, I'm handing you over to Christian.

Thank you very much. And it took me a while to get smiling as you've seen, but I think that was probably on purpose. Welcome to Lisbon. Welcome here in the manner. Thank you very much, Kaeleen, for the introductory words. Why are we here? I have identified 3 reasons. I came in on Sunday evening. I just enjoyed the sun and the mild weather. It's probably one of those things that basically you're really looking for, and I guess you also enjoyed it.

The second thing is for those who are not so familiar with Portugal, Portugal has developed into a real strong tech up. Lisbon, Porto, we ourselves have about 500 people here, mainly acting in the space of product, marketing and tech. So again, this is certainly an important reason. But the third reason is the more important. It's our CLAIM AI conference. It's a big happening. It's the first industry-wide happening in this space.

There is a reason why OLX does it because we are certainly at the forefront of the development in terms of AI. We are not a listed company, so you cannot know, and that's the reason why we want to show today what we have already been doing in the past, what we have been cooking on. Tim and Andreas, obviously, are the stars of today, and we'll give you a deeper insight in what this really means. So now let me get into it. And -- the clicker works.

Yes, the clicker works perfectly well. So we call it leading through agentic innovation. AI,gentic AI is obviously the talk of the town. It's not the reason why we're here. We don't want to be talk of the town. We want to have basically -- we are playing that role in that space for many, many years already. And I think what we want to show you is what you can do in that space and what is the speed and the pace in which you need to work if you want to be in that space.

And it's moving very much away from marketplaces and platforms towards very much verticalized transactions because that's where the depth and also the benefit lies. Just to give you a short heads up on OLX. OLX is a leading business. We have been consistently overperforming. And for those who have been with us on a Capital Markets Day last year, remember very well when I was starting to talk about our verticalization effort into motors, real estate and jobs, which was a clear strategy and which also define our ambition level to grow at 20-plus revenue growth rates and also to reach EBIT margins of 50%, which Suresh, as our CFO, will continue to talk about because we believe that those are margins that you can further achieve.

We have continuously built our financial momentum. We have been able to deliver 43% of EBITDA margins or adjusted EBIT margins after the first half year of our financial year '26. We have leading assets in many -- across many markets. The latest that we obviously acquired was La Central and La Central is also something where we are now starting to roll out our product, and Andreas will certainly talk about this.

If you think about OLX, OLX is a player that is existing for very long now. And we have been constantly innovating and evolving. We have done some mistakes around OLX Autos, but we have continuously tried. This is -- we have been testing. We have been moving on the technology. And I think this is something that is super important because the market view translating into what OLX reality is, I think, is the most important thing, namely we are shaping our own proactive future.

In the past, classifieds were seem to be resilient. They still are, but we believe that the vertical leaders are the data foundations of the agents. That's basically what the future today already looks like. AI is a feature. It's not a feature. It's not a feature. I think a lot of people are talking about feature because it's sort of new. But for us, Agentic AI is the product. It's the product. It's not a feature. It's something that you need to be immersed into and you need to understand. Discovery Channel was the past.

Now it's about partner for a transaction. So it's trying to get the customers and the consumers closer to each other. It's enabling them to basically faster and better transact, which then leads in the last one where in the past, monetization was very much seed and ad-based. Now we're getting far closer towards the transaction, which is what we call a value-based outcome-based revenue, namely closer to the transaction, closer to the lead and then also showing the customers the value that you're delivering. And this is also something that will help you not only to facilitate monetization, but probably also increase your take rate because if you make the customer more efficient, there is a reason why you would also benefit from it.

OLX, as I said already a couple of times, has had a decade of dominance, especially on the -- in the AI space. We started early on in 2018, data, data gathering, data structuring, that's super important because without data structure, you can't go anywhere. The data structure back in the days already helped us in 2021 of starting personalized search. And this is something that is basically the inception, if you want, of AI.

In 2024, we started with our first program, basically called OLX Magic. OLX Magic was a great product, but probably ahead of its time, ahead of its time. And we learned from that, that certain variables that were in that product was then used going forward. And we released our first AutoiQMotors program, which is probably the only one in Europe that helps the dealer in every bit of his business. Is it pricing? Is it sourcing? Is it inventory management? Is it financing? This is the most complete set of product that you can find in the market, and we're adding new functionalities every day.

On job site, in January, we released the matchmaking. The matchmaking is something that is very similar to the dealer side, but on a very different vertical. And tomorrow, we will show the world basically what our ChatGPT Compass is going to look like, namely the real estate app that we're going to use and that we're going to launch into the user hemisphere, which, again, helps us also on the auto side because in April 26, we will launch sort of the same product on the auto side.

Don't forget, the good thing is that the underlying tech allows us to play around synergistically between motors, real estate and jobs, jobs, real estate and motors. So all those things are interdependent and therefore, things are working very, very well into each other and which helps us also to gain speed and to be much faster in the iteration of what we're trying to achieve. Now I've talked enough.

I think Tim, who now takes over, will give you a very deep insight into how we structure this whole AI journey.

Okay. I don't know who that guy is. I'm Tim Davis. I lead up our product, technology and marketing efforts here. First of all, welcome to Lisbon. I think we arranged a special early spring day for those folks in Northern Europe, and hopefully everyone has a chance to get outside and catch a bit of sunshine. I am super excited to talk about what we're doing today. Like this is just such a dynamic time in the industry, especially in classifieds.

I think we have a tremendous amount of good stuff to share and take feedback on, and we're really excited for this whole week of this AI-centric classifieds moment. So I'll talk about scaling AI-powered customer experiences, and I'll kind of lead with like AI is not a feature of the product. The core of our product is AI, but really, the core is the marketplace and how do we help customers sell things or solve human problems.

I think we'll go into some details about how we think about those things. And then my colleagues, Andreas and Suresh will talk about some of the numbers that actually show the results. Okay. First of all, like eyeballs, visibility or exposure listings. -- beautiful business. We have made a ton of money in helping customers just find visibility or discover products. G love it. It's been super great. But that is not the future.

We believe the future is taking those eyeballs and turning them into solutions or I'll say, getting to the finish line. So I think if we think about like this concept of a marketplace, actually, how do we make the marketplace more valuable, more differentiated, more immersive and actually, how do we package that in different ways. And I'll tell you what that means to us. So first of all, like we have -- I'll call it -- we have a flywheel, but I'm going to draw it a little differently today about a top funnel, which is about consumers, the middle of the marketplace mediation and, of course, the supply funnel.

And we attack all of those things independently because they're all super important to us. One is like a core principle for us is people have human need. I think it's not new that for thousands of years, customers or clients or consumers have needed a place to stay, transportation, work or other services they needed to find -- so one of our premises is we find customers or we meet customers wherever they're at. So there's multiple places customers will have intention. It could be mobile apps, it could be upstream search providers, it could be partner ecosystems.

Our goal is to bring those all into the marketplace in our verticals and have the best place to do business. Same thing. Our goal is to help our listers or sellers sell the product. Exposure, very classic, one of the important things that we do and we continue to do. But in the end of the day, like leads lead to a sale, okay? So we're actually all about like helping customers make the sale.

So we're actually transitioning to very much focused around these marketplace services are the place where the business is done or what we might call the transactional marketplace versus the exposure marketplace. And well, this is AI-driven. It's not an AI-driven, it's AI founded. So all these services that operate autonomously in the marketplace are built and delivered through AI and can be packaged in multiple experiences, which I'll talk about.

Okay. As I mentioned, like what we've been winning. I mean our results have been fantastic for the last couple of years on traditional classifieds business models. Suresh will show some of those numbers that we've been driving revenue and margin very aggressively for the last 3, 4 years. But then also, we actually have Agentic AI in the market today. This is not a future thing. This is a today thing. So we're actually generating real money, real ROI on investments and helping consumers find better experiences today with the technology we're creating as well as sellers package and produce their products in different innovative ways.

And one of the things we're really super excited about is like what differentiates classifieds and especially OLX in this world? Well, one is we see a ton of data. And I think it's what Christian mentioned is like the scale. The scale is on at least 2 dimensions. One, we operate across many geos. So we see a wide diversity of consumer behaviors, and we can take that data and aggregate it into interesting insights across many different geo markets. Second, we operate across a bunch of different verticals. I think that's one of the differentiating factors of OLX is we see consumer behavior in cars, jobs, real estate, even goods and services.

So we actually have this huge pile of data unique to OLX that we can synthesize package and apply algorithmic AI to actually generate insights. That's everything from like vehicle history is cross border, something actually is kind of hard to do. But looking I actually have a lot of personal connection to is like the jobs market. We actually can see what employers actually hire for, the success rate of those applicants and actually fine-tune the matchmaking services over time based on who's applied for these jobs, how they performed, what employers come back and look for. Those are real proprietary data things that are very vertical-centric and I think can't easily be replicated outside of the OLX ecosystem.

Second is like trust. Well, in any high-value marketplace experience, buying a car, looking for a job, there's the need for quality data, okay? So you trust these transactions, are you giving your personal information out to some place that will honor integrity and actually connect the appropriate services to a trust foundation and mediate those in a marketplace environment. I think about like all of the untrustworthy data that exists in the world.

I think this is a key place of why actually people will come to OLX in verticals and say, well, you can't just buy fraudulent reviews from OLX. You actually have to earn those reviews, again, back to the proprietary data, back to the connection of agents and people. So again, like if we can do a search and find 5 different providers of loan services in any given market, we actually can show the history, the attach rate, the success rate and connect all those services to the transactional flow.

And then on scale and depth. As I mentioned, we operate at high scale. I think we're all super clear that building this type of technology is super expensive. But what we're really excited about is we actually take this cost and reuse it and rebuild it and redeploy it across multiple geos in multiple markets. I think this is a case when scale tremendously helps us pay for this technology that smaller, more specialized vendors will have a hard time with.

And I think also, Suresh, I'm going to refer to a few times to talk about the economics of this. But this is built into our business model. This isn't a new investment for us. We've been doing this for the better part of 7 years, as Christian mentioned. So our entire revenue margin profitability model is founded upon driving these technologies. We were doing AI before it was called AI. We used to call it ML, but this is the basis of how we deliver value to our customers. And I think I just kind of sum up this, what does this really mean? What's like trying to help customers get to the finish line of sell their product, whatever that may be. And we really are excited by these services being flexible, okay? We're about sellers and actually helping them sell. But we don't have a one-size-fits-all sales model. We're not a logistics marketplace.

We're expecting people to put their products into our warehouse. We're saying, bring your best offer, package it, price it, choose the liquidity level that is most appropriate for your business model. You can have different offsetting ways to offer value to the customers and making that data and those offers accessible to consumers, whether they're coming from a traditional discovery experience or in the future, dispatching their own AI agents into our marketplace to find the right solution for them.

Yes, and we look ahead, and we think like things will, in fact, change. Again, in a classic exposure or visibility-based marketplace, whether it's classifieds or ads, lots of techniques will become not relevant in the future, like boosted listings, probably one of the mainstays of most advertising businesses is like buying ranked listings or boosted up ad spots.

When you have a consumer AI agent who's processing tens, hundreds, thousands of listings and close to real time, those things go away. Consumers will bring their own preferences, their own ranking algorithms and their own scoring to the marketplace. Our job is to make sure the agents match up in our marketplace with high integrity data and high integrity place to actually those transactions. So I think we look ahead and say, well, what will change? That's one of the things.

Second is like all these services like purchase reviews, fraud bots, those are things that are intrinsically like will not be valuable as the marketplaces get more mature, generate algorithmic IP or algorithmic AI to filter sort and remove those from the marketplace aggressively with scale and deep IP. So it's a zero-sum game. There's always a cat and mouse type of thing with fraud.

We think trusted marketplaces will win over time, whether they're human eyeballs or agent transactions. And the third is proprietary data. Our customers are largely small- and medium-sized enterprises. We have a bunch of data for distribution of our listings. These are things that no single job lister, no single real estate agency, no single auto dealer can really replicate. We can bring these insights and data sets to them, have the algorithm IP, which then are used to augment their listings, their value and their decision process.

So we're basically again helping people sell their products in a larger context, but still allow them to personalize what's relevant for them. So I think about personalization in that context, we're personalized for the consumer, but we also personalize for the seller. And I think about like what winning looks like -- well, first of all, actually, sorry, these matter. These are in market today. So like we're actually seeing real tangible results, not just future agent transformation, but things are being packaged, customers are picking up these services, and they're showing it in our financials quarter-over-quarter.

And we are relentless about doing these things in front of customer, finding product market fit and scaling up and boosting things that work. I'll just talk about one of these data points. It's one of my favorites is the jobs market or the matchmaking marketplace. I love this because we solve some really essential human needs here.

One, job seekers, they may be in a bad time. They may have lost their job or looking for a better life for their family. We're helping them find better fit, more likely to find -- to pass an interview process and making that time to find that job happen that first touch point within 5 minutes. At the same time, we're solving an economic opportunity for our sellers to find more candidates better suited to them, preserve precious human time for interviewing qualified candidates and shorten the time to find labor or capital to help them make money.

So it's a beautiful market and that I think is a really great touchstone piece for AI. And again, they show up in tangible numbers for our customers and how they purchase and consume these products.

Another theme here I want to talk about is as we -- anyone who follows the news, the world is on fire for AI. And one of our principles is speed is the only sustainable advantage. And it used to be, we talked about being 20% faster. But now we only need to operate at computer speed or silicon speed. This is a great statistic I read a few days ago is the world market for compute will go, I think, $3 trillion of investment in the next 4 years, doubling the world's capacity for GPU or general compute. That just staggers me as a technologist. Like there's so much more capacity to do these things than ever before. And that means anyone who's operating with people first versus AI first will fall behind.

We need to be operating 10, 50, 100x faster, getting value to customers, not squeezing a few percentage points out of our existing team. So again, it's a very AI-first infrastructure that we're all focused on. So again, what are we doing? Well, we're doing like more than 1,200 product updates per week. We test these, we experiment, we fine-tune them. We see what customers want. And we see something, we double down on it and scale it up, put it into a package or an offer and get it to market at scale. We love that. Same thing, the delivery rate. We are not immune to this.

So again, not 20%, but 2x faster, and we expect to go even 2x faster in coming years. We have like roughly 2,600 employees at OLX. We also have roughly 2,600 autonomous agents working for us. And some of that will be 5,000, 10,000, 20,000. Our scale out will be agentic workforce as well as agentic value delivery, not with people. Well, we like to win, and we want to keep winning. So first of all, as I mentioned, like we've had a fantastic several years. I think we've actually built a culture, a drive to win and the whole company.

Today is about AI and technology, but we're also about customers. And the key interface to customers and how we build technology and take it to market as well as learn is often coming from our account management and our sales teams. And of course, our marketing groups are about a bidirectional conversation. We think that's a deep moat of how do we actually help our customers co-win with us. It's not just a one-way communication. This is a dialogue, which we think is essentially a value to how OLX does business.

And then kind of these categories or these rough boxes I laid them out is, first of all, we're AI first. All of our services are built with AI at the core. They might be packaged in traditional Discovery UX or into a ChatGPT experience, but they're AI core into the marketplace, building on the proprietary data and algorithmic IP that we build on. Marketplaces, we are making excellent tools for our suppliers to augment their data, sell in the way they care about.

And also, we think a super interesting differentiator for us is we are verticalized. We think that the data has shown, the economic ROI has shown huge value to being a specialized marketplace and domain focused. We have people who deeply understand the real estate business, what drives agent behavior, what drives sellers, what drives apartment rentals. Same thing for motors, same thing for jobs in our other businesses.

So we are able to concentrate that value, create the right products, create the right sales engagement model for our customers, which I think is very different than a broad generic approach that you see from maybe other providers. Yes. And those are things that -- it's not just technology, the whole company aligned to this winning metaphor. So on that note,

I'm going to let my colleague, Andreas, talk about the details of how...

Thanks a lot, Tim, for showing us the future, how we think that the future will evolve and the trends that lead to that. And from here, I would like to also emphasize concrete AI use cases and data products that we have already in production, what comes next and also the culture of innovation that will take us there.

So some of those numbers, of course, you have already seen. I would like to emphasize here that we have more than 75 customer-facing ML and AI use cases, 25 generative AI use cases and more than 10 agentic customer-facing use cases that have been developed in the last few months. Of course, everybody in this room knows that generative AI performance is improving very fast, fueled by science.

On the left graph, you can see how much time it took traditionally for ML to reach human level performance. It was typically years or more. And in the last few years, how this has compacted with generative AI and more recently with agentic AI to just months or even weeks.

And on the right side of this graph, you can see some of the many projections of how the Agentic market size will evolve in the next decade. And of course, the numbers are staggering. Of course, putting those together, it means that we are in a transition phase. The typical static experiences that users were experiencing in the marketplace, searching, comparing items, purchasing through static interfaces is largely going to change in the next few years, where agents are acting as consultants and advisers for users, helping them search, negotiate and potentially purchase items.

And this means that the user experience in the next 1 to 5 years will be very different, more different than the previous 15 years combined, have all the differences that have been brought in the previous years combined.

OLX's innovative approach to address this consists of 3 different streams working in parallel. So our first stream is called optimize, and this is improving the existing user experience and of course, maximizing profits. It's basically improving our bread and butter.

The next stream is called scale, and this is all about moving fast and finding product market fit for upcoming solutions and innovations. So allowing the teams to really experiment quickly, take risk in a controlled way and find what works best for the user.

And finally, we have disrupt, which is our bold bets and really inventing the future. In a world where speed largely defines the winner, our execution is going from good to great. Some of those numbers, I will not repeat because Tim has already mentioned that. But what I would like to emphasize is that we are running already more than 600 AB tests per year, the majority being AI and ML related. And those numbers are actually accelerating. So you can see that on the right part of the screen, how our speed of execution is improving year-over-year in this space.

And of course, 600 is already quite a lot for classified companies, but we are not happy with that. Our aim is to actually double this year again. And this is on top of quadrupling already in the previous 4 years. So putting this together, if we rank across some of the core dimensions of having a cloud scaled AI platform and AI-enabled tech teams, OLX is fully on cloud since many years. It has a unified tech stack across all the markets.

It has a quite advanced generative AI platform that allows our teams to experiment quickly with all the major LLM providers from OpenAI, from Anthropic, from Google, from 11 Labs and many others as they are coming. And it has also a very large and capable AI-enabled team and total engineering capacity. What I would also like to highlight here is that OLX has agentic AI investments and use cases across the entire customer journey and user funnel.

So if we think about the top of the funnel, that is all about inspiration, exploration and intent, then middle funnel that is about comparison, trust and personalization. And finally, lower funnel, which is about selection and support. Of course, in every different part of the user journey, we have different intents. So at the beginning of the customer journey, it is all about multiple touch points for the users, for the potential buyers and of course, seller value and convenience.

On the middle funnel, it is all about choice and trust. And at the bottom of the funnel, it's about peace of mind. And with this, I will present just the tip of the iceberg, 5 selected agentic AI use cases that are already live and share also the results that those are producing. But as I said, there are many, many more.

So first of all, with respect to seller convenience, we have already live in all of our verticals, AI-powered ad posting, where you can already today take a photo of an item and the majority of the ad is automatically generated from that. This, for example, in real estate reduced the time to post by 50% already some months ago. And at the same time, it significantly improved conversion as well. But this is only the beginning.

So our next release is going to be video to ad, where in motors, you can, as a dealer go around your car, take a video and the whole ad will be automatically created from this sort of video, making it easier than ever to post. Another use case is actually our experimental partnership with ChatGPT, where this plays to the strategy of being everywhere where our customers can be.

The idea here is that we have conversational AI agents integrated in the ChatGPT flow where users can explore the market, use personalized information about their preferences, of course, and find properties that are interesting for them and then, of course, convert to buyers. So you can see here how the comparison looks between the, let's say, row OpenAI experience without our integrated app and how it looks with the OLX GPT app integrated there.

And you can, of course, see that it is much more intuitive. You see the images of the listings. You get a lot of interesting insights about the properties, locations of interest, appreciation of value and many other things that it is just not possible for a generic LLM to show that same type of depth and quality of information.

And at the same time, I would like to emphasize that the core user experience is still remaining with us. So everything that it plays in the carousel of the items, the order of what we are presenting there, the type of insights that are provided is very much still generated by OLX. Another use case that I would like to talk about a bit more.

I think Tim mentioned it also already, but going to a little bit more detail is jobs matchmaking, and this is all about choice and trust. So here, our Agentic AI deep mines candidate profiles in a complex job descriptions going beyond just matchmaking of keyboards. And this is already live. It is the #1 paid employer feature. 59% of all the engagement actions are generated by that today. It has 3x faster positive actions and 63% engagement rate for the employer in the first 5 minutes.

And as I said, this is just the beginning. Going to the dealers -- the car dealers case, we have AutoIQ in place. This is the dealership operating system. So this is something that allows the dealers to really manage the entire dealership automatically with AI, and that includes everything. It includes sourcing, it includes pricing. It includes managing inventory, promoting ads and many other optimizations. And this is already rolled out in Poland with 21% week-over-week retention at 100% of the Polish dealers. And those numbers are also increasing quite rapidly.

We think that it will be above 30% quite soon. Then going finally to the bottom of the funnel. This is all about maximizing impact and, of course, providing peace of mind to the buyers. You can see how a traditional UX of classifieds looks like. It's actually one of the, I would say, relatively good ones in automotive.

But we are really transforming it with the add-to-video capability to something that is the next generation of experience with very much signal reach and information reach ad formats. that help the buyers make the correct decisions, find what they are looking for and engage deeply, of course, with the advertisement.

At the same time, from the perspective of the professional sellers, this has more than 70% acceptance ratio from motors dealers and real estate agents and with quite high willingness to pay as well. So I would like to close saying that at OLX, we are really believing that the best way to predict the future is to create it. And with that, I will pass to Suresh to tell us a little bit more about the financial impact of AI.

You heard the great strategy discussions on AI that Tim laid out, starting with Christian laying out the strategy for the company. And then hopefully, Andreas has wowed you going through the various AI use cases. And I hope to then ground you into what does it mean on us, on financials, on value creation and address some of the topical questions that's probably first and foremost in your minds.

All right. But before I get going, as I walk you through how we are positioned for growth, first, I want to take a little bit of time showing you who we are. And I don't think everybody understands us because I don't think we come out that publicly. We've not shown our numbers or our financials. So a little bit of a glimpse of who we are, probably sets the stage before we get into some of the other topics.

First of all, we are the hidden giant. We are by far the #1 classifieds company of Europe, probably one of the top most in any part of the world. This year, we should be crossing $900 million of revenue at about 43% EBIT. And when you translate that into EBITDA, we don't capitalize. We're talking about close to 50% EBITDA. We operate across 7 markets. We have 70 million-odd ads. Those are the markets we operate in. And so when you think about it, we're largely -- we are market leaders in almost most of the platforms, most of the countries, not all of them, barring a very small few, we are the market leaders in almost all of them. That's a pretty big company, number one.

Number two, we operate in markets that are growing faster than most of the Western economy. Even overlooking Ukraine, Poland, Romania are almost 2x GDP per capita growth rate CAGRs compared to the Western peers. So we operate in markets that are growing in economy where people are buying more cars, they're buying more houses, they're renting more stuff. They're creating jobs and they're growing faster.

Third, when you look at our headroom on take rates, our leading verticals of, say, automotive or auto dome, our motors and real estate verticals in Poland are either half of the leading peers or even less than half of the peers, the leaders in the market. So we have a long way to go for the amount of value we deliver, the value extraction that we do is far lesser than that of what we have. And it's important because I'll tie to tide at the end to give you a sense on this, why it's important that we still have a lot of pricing headroom here.

And then we continue to be the leader of our brands. Yes, you'll have a ton of questions saying, how is that going to stay back in the world of agenting AI, I'm going to address that. But hold the thought, for now, we are the leaders, both in terms of demand and in supply. We dwarf the #2 players in the markets that we operate in, barring 1 or 2.

Now I'm not oblivious to what's going on in the market. I know there's a lot of questions going on. Public markets are giving a beating to our fellow peers in classifieds. So let me try to address the bear case first. What do I think about it, give my perspective on it, and let's probably have it in the Q&A, have a discussion on that. I'll take some time to walk you through this.

First of all, this is a glimpse of our supply of automotive and Autoome. Automotive is our leading Polish motors vertical and the real estate verticals. Number one, these are expensive assets. These are price-sensitive, expensive assets for any user. Number two, each and every supply that you see is a heterogeneous product. No 2 used cars are the same. No 2 properties are similar. So that kind of tells you that, there is heterogeneity in the product. It's a high-value product.

Now let's talk about supply. I've given you a frequency distribution where I show the ads per seller and number of sellers. So that tells you that, say, at 50 ads per seller, we have about, say, 80-odd people who have 50-odd ads per seller. Why is that important? Because we have 87% of sellers in automotive who post 3 ads or less, and they only account for 30% of the ads. That's the kind of SMB spectrum we're talking about. And this is where -- coming back to what Tim was saying, they need a lot of AI solutions.

The #1 reason that a customer goes and engages our sales guys go and engage with the customers first telling them, why don't you answer your leads? Why don't you take the calls? These are the kind of stuff that these people go through. So we provide a lot of AI solutions there. And the salespeople -- so AI solutions for the SMBs and salespeople are augmented with AI solutions as well. And this is something that we certainly think this kind of fragmented supply supplemented by our sales efforts is definitely a proprietary data moat, against any kind of LLM or agent AI world we're talking about.

Second, 91% of our daily active users are from direct or organic traffic sources. And I'll address what could be the risk on the next page. That gives you a sense of how strong our brands are. It also tells you that -- the organic stuff, the organic searches, et cetera, is about 1/4 of our numbers or less than 1/4 of our kind of daily active users. Now comes the million-dollar question that everyone is talking about saying, you know what, agentic AI is going to disintermediate your top of the funnel. What could be that impact on that? I've tried to lay out a scenario. I may not be perfect, but let me walk you through it. I certainly think that is resilience, okay?

Let me walk you through this. This is a kind of a pie chart of our traffic. The earlier page was daily active users. This is our pie chart on traffic, okay? Now the direct traffic is about 76-odd percent and organic search is about 13%. You can say direct traffic, oh my God, agentic AI is going to be the direct traffic. I would say yes. But why would anyone use Agentic AI outside our product? Tim and Andrea walked you through it. For us, Agentic AI is the product. It's embedded in it. You saw that kind of supply that's going to be with us and that we'll continue to augment it with all the kind of AI solutions and solutions that make them win. Why would any user go in a direct world, go and try to do it elsewhere when they already have that app that is very superior to going through that Pepsi challenge.

Then comes the question, what's at risk? So let's take an example. What I've tried to do here is, today, AI search is say, 0.03% of our total traffic. And then you -- I think all of you track the stats. It's less than 2%, 3% at most for many of the other peers.

Now let's take a situation that, that jumps to a big number. It hasn't happened. Say it happens. Number two, one of the Agent or the LLMs ends up being the Nera UO, takes over the world. I don't know if it's OpenAI, it's Gemini, whoever else. And number three, they choose to monetize at scale. Now if all of that were to happen, I'm taking a situation saying, let's say, half of our organic search becomes paid due to an LLM coming in charging us for that. And I'm assuming a 50% increase in price because I'll have to buy a lot more traffic.

Even if that were the case, we are talking about a 3 to 4 points EBIT margin compression for us. And that's manageable, and I'll walk you through why. First of all, this is indicative. I don't want people to say, "Oh, that number is right or wrong. We looked at publicly available information. We looked and said, okay, how much of this -- their revenue is from nonclassifieds. And we are certainly in the low end of the spectrum. So we don't have that much of eyeball-led revenue.

Most of our revenue is classified revenue that the agents or the dealers are happy to pay because they're getting solutions. On top of that, if you look at -- and this is where -- if you remember, when I talked about less than 5% margin compression is a worst-case risk, why do I feel comfortable? Our margin expansion in the last 3 years is pretty impressive, 21% to 43%. People would tend to think, "Oh my God, you've slashed investments. " You've taken it out of the pocket, you're just squeezing the lemon, and that's what it is. That's not what drove it. Those were the times where we were still focusing a lot on paint ship, a lot of transactional businesses, doing a lot of subsidies, chasing the inner goods category.

We've changed our focus. Number two, so our core revenue, as you can see, motors, real estate and jobs has gone from 65% to 70% and grown too. That's causing a lot of the expansion. Plus a lot of the tech investments that we did on replatforming, et cetera, got over there. That sets the stage for Andreas and Tim to light it on fire with AI that we've been doing. So this expansion has come without kind of -- yes, we've been prudent on costs, but it's not like squeezing the limit. That's the expansion that has happened in us.

And when you look at our peer set, again, these numbers are from public information. They're not from the same time zone, some are fourth quarter, some are half year, et cetera, but it gives you a sense on what kind of relative zone of EBITDA they are. And that's where we stand. Compared to pure-play verticals, we still have a long way to go. And our journey has been without squeezing the lemon. And oh, by the way, we have been never letting down on our AI investments. If anything, we've only increased it. We have 150-plus people. We have more than 80-odd teams that work on AI, probably the highest in the -- and Andreas has talked about it. We've been investing between OpEx and CapEx plus $30 million this year. It's only been growing. So that margin has come on top of this.

So that gives me comfort to say, yes, as long as our product is superior, the direct traffic stays with us, which I don't believe why they would move. And even if there is disruption in the paid traffic or in the organic traffic, we can manage it. With that, hopefully, I don't think I can ever assuage the bad case, but at least I'm addressing some of the questions you may have. Let me go to an exciting bull case that probably we all tend to overlook. AI is already a monetization or a pricing driver.

We've already embedded into our product. Tim talked about it. That is a screenshot from our current package in automotive. We already have ad to video there. And by the way, it generates 8% to 10% of incremental leads. So customers are saying, "Oh, I love that. " Give me that because I get more leads. And that's causing a lot of our price increase. Now it's very tough to say, okay, this came from AI, this came from this because they matched. We're not going to have an AI product package and a non-AI product package. It's part of the package.

And on top of that, we're also deploying it now in Lab and 12, where all of these tools are coming in. And that's one of the power of the synergies we're going to have with them. And it's also driving productivity at scale. And we are just scratching the surface.

Right now, the margin enhancement we're getting is about 2-ish percent, but that is only the start. We already see customer service efforts are going down -- efforts are going down, productivity is going up in a massive scale. We already are doing a lot of projects so that by '28, we get that. 98% of our content moderation happens without human touch.

We're getting a lot of savings in campaign management, et cetera. And these are prospects. You can get it off any of the third-party solutions, but we are leveraging all of that. And as AI becomes more and more embedded into the enterprise, we're going to see a lot more of productivity that even I can't [indiscernible].

Finally, look, there's always a question on our industry, where is the terminal value? What's going to happen to the outer years? I feel there's a lot of opportunity on OLX. We've got exciting markets and geographies. I talked to you about that. We have a lot of take rate headroom with all the AI solutions that helps us because it's already a pricing booster and AI cost productivity is just getting started, and the risks are quite manageable. So with that, hopefully, I have laid my case, and we can discuss it more in Q&A.

With that, I'll hand it to Christian.

Thank you very much. Yes, why are we excited? Obviously, again, tomorrow and the day after, you will see senior product people. You will see a lot of very innovative AI people around us that will give us an insight into what innovation looks like. On the second day, we will try to operationalize the whole thing. So it's going to be people talking about what does it mean to talent. Suresh already made cases around the financial piece, but we're going to leave that there's in more. So that's the reason why we're excited.

The second thing is we're absolutely excited and I'm absolutely proud of being able to run this business because as you've seen, not only are we leading, which is good on financials, but we're also leading in terms of product. We're also leading in terms of the product and also in terms of the ideas. And if I have to wrap up, it's to say, and this is, I think, very important, the proactive future, the OLX reality. We're not reacting to AI. We are leading it. And it means that basically, we are working on very deep vertical integration, which we started and real estate motors and jobs is a testimony to it.

We have a proprietary data loop, which is super important because it's not only the underlying data, as Tim was saying, but it's also the structure of the data and the usability of the data that makes it so important. It's an AI-first infrastructure. And you've seen on one of the first slide, we have invested across those years, about EUR 200 million already. So we are not just starting. We have been there, and we have spent it and we continue to spend as the CFO was telling, which is always a good sign. And we have a desire to win culture.

We have 2,600 people in our company. We have 2,600 agents joining us. We have many more agents that's going to join us. Obviously, those agents will have even more desire to win. And I think this is super important because this will enhance us, it will create more efficiency and will help us to deliver on our long-term ambition, which is very nicely summarized for you and 20% revenue growth and 50% adjusted EBIT margin that even if we look into the beer case, is something that we can -- I don't call it easily, but we can well achieve.

With this being said, I'm very much excited to welcome you tomorrow to our CLAIM AI conference, which I think is an outstanding conference and we are representing here classifieds because classifieds an industry has not been good at that so far. And again, as a leader in that space, we are taking the helm, and we very much welcome you there tomorrow.

[Operator Instructions]. It's Will Packer from BNP Paribas.

Three questions, please. Okay. First question. Could you expand a little bit on what you classify as proprietary data? In the recent sell-off of classifieds and other media Internet names, there's been quite a bit of debate around what is genuinely proprietary and what's not.

In today's presentation, you gave a very fair example, which was unique inventory from the long tail of small dealers and private sellers. But could you expand a little bit beyond that as to what you would count as proprietary data to help us think through data as a moat?

I think Tim probably was the one who basically was talking very much about it. It's not only about the supply as such and basically the very small pieces. It's also the geo. So we have a lot of element that plays into it. But Tim, I think.

Yes, that's a great question. So part of it is just supply. The supply is intrinsically proprietary, although we don't always own it. But it's all of the interactions and the connections of those data sets. I think one of the examples I love to talk about is actually how are the candidates performing at a certain employer. So that's the history, that's the retention rate, the interview pass rate, even coming back and advertising for additional job requirements. We actually are building closed loops, as I call them, for employers to give us more data to capture is what's actually working for them, what are the candidates who were successful.

Eventually, we'd like to capture their performance and how they're impacting the business and build a better candidate database for passive and active recruiting. Similarly, for things like real estate, it's not just like the number of bedrooms or bathrooms in the property. It's like what do consumers value? What is the comparative data, what's the dwell time, what is the actual interest in a particular distance to a park. Those are all interactions that are captured uniquely on our platform.

And we, of course, database them and build insights out of those. Those are things that any one given seller can't capture. They don't really show up at the top of the funnel, either they show up inside the marketplace, what's the attach rate of a particular financing offer, what was interesting to a consumer and what actually performs better. And remember, we're a marketplace business, small differences of conversion rate are huge economic drivers. Same thing on other verticals like cars.

We actually see a lot of the same cars year-over-year. People come back, resell, repurchase, relook at those same cars. We actually can track those both in market as well as across markets. We can track a car history as it goes from France to Poland, for example, what's the history, what's the accident record, all the things that don't show up in public databases nor will they show up in that, call it, a naive broad-based top of funnel search.

Secondly, on the basis of today's presentation, you could definitely envisage a bit of a change in the classified industry and that potentially consolidation will make more sense. Historically, there's been relatively few revenue or cost synergies, but in the context of some of the developments you've talked to today, they could be applied across the portfolio. You've recently completed the La Central deal.

One obvious challenge to me would be the data architecture of the businesses you would acquire. I imagine that's been a work in progress. Interested to hear how the work has been on La Central from a data architecture perspective and how the synergies have played out so far?

Yes. I think this is a great question for Andreas to me at the microphone of what AI is going to transform that whole problem.

Exactly. So in the case of La Central, there is already an advantage that both businesses are fully on AWS cloud. So it is relatively easy to connect the data platforms. This is something that is already ongoing. So already in terms of financial and key user metrics, the integration basically has happened since last month. So we are still putting some final details here and there, but already at the level of financials and user metrics, this is already happening. What comes next is synergies on AI.

So the first use case is that we are going to actually share with L Central are ad to video and video to ad. Those are both coming in April, and this is just the beginning. So already, we are building on top of businesses that are fully on cloud. The first level of integration was literally done in 2 months and the next level with first synergies on AI in the next 2 months.

And if I may add also, Will, the way we look into companies that we buy, it's not about the size, and it's less about cost synergies. It's what can drive that revenue growth. What is it that we basically can contribute to the top line. And this is what basically also is the fundament of due diligence process. It is the understanding of us, of our opportunity to move the things forward.

And that's exactly what Andreas was referring to. It's something we identified early on. We know where L Montreal needs support, namely on the small and medium-sized dealers, hence, the video to ad and the ad to video, which is something that will help us to basically acquire them. So we're very, very thoughtful about what we're doing once we move into an acquisition.

And if I can add one more thing, I think it's thematic throughout our entire strategy of AI first is lots of integrations or things like data mergers are total disasters. They have been historically tons of people, tons of costs, unrealized value. What is different about AI and especially how we're putting AI first is we're actually making that a machine problem.

We're not hiring hundreds of consultants that take 5 years and actually have a low friction. Remember, our principle here is time to market or velocity, okay? So by actually building self-described data sets, applying agentic transformations, integration, whether it's data sets across our properties or whether it's third-party ecosystem providers, we're removing slowness.

There's often people in making these AI to AI or agent-to-agent interactions for data integration, API integration, things like credit scoring, things like real estate transactional support for digitization of property records. So effectively, AI is letting us bring these things faster, better to market and getting rid of the entire, a, high cost of humans; and b, slow realization of value. So I think that's an important part of how we're approaching these problems.

And then last one on all. Thanks for all the color on the Bull case. It was very interesting. I suppose one challenge for your peers is that they are listed and have financials they report every quarter, and the market is very sensitive to them. In contrast, you within a larger process, there's obviously the Tencent stake, which drives the primary driver of earnings.

From your perspective, what happens to numbers during that transition where you're changing the revenue model to more outcome-based when you're grappling with the changes in how customer acquisition works, how product development works. Is there naturally a period where numbers come under some pressure before accelerating? Or is it relatively benign?

Look, we've been in this kind of AI/ML investment journey for almost a decade. So we've seen these things start panning out. So when you see an ad to video in an automotive page, it's been there for some time or something of that derivative has been there for some time. So we've seen the impact of this in the financials for some time. And the good thing, I guess, is being part of a Prosus eco family is we don't have to report quarterly at the same kind of and have to deal with volatility of external pressures beyond our control.

So we deal with that with laying out a kind of a short-term financial plan and working through that. So it's that way that we do. And in terms of revenue and cost that you talked about, you could see that. I mean we do have a lot of headroom. We don't see that going away anytime soon. And the cost around traffic disintermediation, we haven't -- we haven't started seeing it. You can -- and not as any other classifieds. But in spite of that, they are facing short-term volatility.

First one is back to this kind of, I guess, flow in an Argentic AI world. So in this view of future where I tell my personal AI assistant to go find me a car or a house. Just curious as to why you're so confident that it will definitely be the #1 classified that is then providing that Agentic flow. And is it your view that technology, i.e., your set is set up for Agentic and user experience is enough?

And then what are kind of the trade-offs in how much of your secret sauce you kind of open up into that flow versus bringing people back into your own ecosystem and also how the kind of commercial relationship works with OpenAI or Google or Apple or however it's going to be to make sure it's definitely you.

And I guess that conversation may be different if we're thinking about, I don't know, Poland where you're super strong versus in France where La Central is competing with Leboncoin and it's a 2-player market and maybe a bit more of a race to the bottom debate. Like how do we think about that?

I think -- I mean, obviously, Andreas as well as Tim, I think, have spoken to it, and I think it's good for them to answer. I think just one comment on the La Central. I'm not sure whether the competition with Leboncoin is exactly the place to go because that's not exactly what we're looking at. The question is always when you go deep into the verticals, the horizontal has a problem. and that's exactly what we're doing.

So with the product that Andreas was referring to, the way we approach it is something very different. And that's the reason why I would probably take this into the equation, but take it out of the equation of competition. That's not the way we look at it. And that was, by the way, never look, we looked at it when we bought it. So it's something very different. But Tim and Andreas, please.

I can perhaps start with perhaps 2 points, and of course, Tim feel free to add to that. So the first point is, as I said in the strategy, and I think Tim referred to that as well, we will be everywhere that our customers are. So at the very beginning of the funnel, we want that people have choice. And if they start their journey with OpenAI or with Google or with any other place or they come natively to us, as Suresh was saying with the data points, we'll be present in all of those.

I think that with the experience that we show the side-by-side comparison with the OpenAI row and OpenAI with our app integrated, we can already see that we can provide much more insights and a better experience for the user objectively. They can really find what they are looking for, see images, understand exactly how it works and of course, still see deep links that send them back to our sites to continue the middle funnel and bottom funnel experience there.

But the other thing is also perhaps other players have similar strategies. But as also team and me referred to that as well, we are entering an era that more than ever, the sustainable advantage is execution speed. And this is something that we are really believing and doubling down on. We already are in a quite good place, but we are going to be in an even better place in the next 6, 12, 18 months because we are really doubling down on our existing investments and making certain that we are making the most out of what we already have, getting more and more speed as we are moving forward.

Yes. I think I wouldn't have anything to add on the technical side. But I think about the essence of your question is these agentic transactions or agentic AI transactions. And again, I think about like AI to human, human to AI, AI, we don't really care. It's going to be AI at the core and how it's presented may vary based on what users need. But it is effectively the place these transactions are going to happen. There's going to be more data to operate with. There's going to be more trust.

In the same way today, you've seen things like ad broker networks actually mediate real-time ad purchasing and personalization at high scale. We look at this as high scale for our verticals. Now that's where these things are trusted. There's transaction orchestration, there's attach rates. This will be the most efficient place to bring your agentic AI and operate within a real estate or a motors or jobs or even general goods marketplace. So I think that has to happen somewhere, and we think that is the best place in a very vertically centric transactional environment with all the attributes we talked about, agentic AI, agentic data, trust, verification, history. So those are the things I think will differentiate why classifieds, especially OLX has a right to win there.

And potentially, I'm also trying to simplify, Andreas. I would say we don't give you personal assistance any opportunity to go somewhere else into us. And whether it's Poland or France or somewhere else, I mean it's not so much whether you're #1 or not. It's the way you basically are represented. And I think that's what Tim and Andreas were displaying.

If I can just supplement a question to that, just one of the ones from the chat. So Sylvia sent through a question and said, talking about your AI integrated product, what do the economics of an offering like that look like? How much does that lead cost you the economics less attractive to you versus someone coming to you directly?

Look, the cost of AI investments I laid it out, we're investing about $30-odd million on AI this year, both OpEx and CapEx. We are not trying to branch out every single investment and look at it and say, this is the return that it gives. We do investments based on priorities that we lay out and we go against it. And then when you look at the returns that we get, it's embedded into our pricing, it's embedded into our customer journey. It's embedded into the pricing that we get and the revenue growth that we see. And that's how we measure it.

So right now, there is -- I don't look at it at least to say, I put x amount on this and here is the return I need to see. All I'm saying is I need to invest because this is the customer journey, this is the customer product that we need to build, and we need to be best-in-class to ensure that we get every possible traffic source coming to us. And what does that investment do? And can I balance that within the margin expectations that I have?

And I think to the point of Suresh, I think that detail is not relevant to us because we are focusing on the revenue growth. We're looking to getting 20% plus. If we're getting there, the costs that are associated with it will be born like they have been in the past. That's the first. The second thing, as I was saying, there's a lot of synergies on what we're developing between the verticals. Real estate, motors jobs, the other way around. So I think trying to be very nitty-gritty on this is going to -- it's not helping us because it would rather be focused on what is really relevant.

And most importantly, the investments that go is against the right priorities and the speed of deployment is all we measure. And then it plays itself out. Otherwise, you'll get into false precisions trying to do all kind of allocation engine on cost, which honestly, nobody can then understand.

Sorry, it was a long first one, I promise a shorter second one. So it's about data. And as there starts to be engagement in an LLM environment to take the app in ChatGPT as an example, whose data is that. So presumably, you get to keep all of the insights about how people are searching for a house or a car in ChatGPT. But how is OpenAI able to use that data that's going to get created?

So exactly, I tried to show that a bit on the example, but the way that it works today at least is the experience, the core experience is still with us. So everything that is shown on the carsell with the photos in what order you see the houses and so on. Similarly, next month that we will launch motors, all of that is with us.

And that, I think, is where part of the secret sauce is. Some of the secret sauce is even deeper. So it is, as Tim said, the user journeys or the history of the cars, how many accidents they had, the appreciation potential in different neighborhoods in real estate, how that has evolved historically, but also how you are predicting that it will evolve in the future. These are quite detailed domain-specific problems at least in the midterm, it is very difficult for a generic LLM to address.

Of course, in technology, it's very difficult to predict what will happen in 7, 8, 10 years. But at least the current situation and the reality of where technology is and combined with the advantage in terms of structured data that we have built over a long time, makes us quite optimistic that we will have a very strong position in that.

It's Luke Holbrook here from Morgan Stanley. One of the benefits that you think OLX has is being multi-vertical, multi-geography. And we've seen in European classifieds in recent years, actually single vertical, single countries have basically been the norm. Can you just articulate from a data point of view, what is the exact advantage that you get? Because if I'm searching for a job versus searching for a house, what is it at the back end that you think actually leads to a meaningful advantage?

Yes. Let me make my first point. I think Christian might have something to say about the overall investment case around that. First of all, a principle that I have used for 20-some-odd years, and I'm kind of an older person, I suppose, is that people are much the same everywhere. So we actually can reuse learnings, user behaviors, preferences at higher and higher scale across geographies. That's unique. So this gives us more data.

And we believe many, if not most, of the consumer preferences or seller scenarios that are applicable in Poland are also relevant to France. So part of it is just the basic premise. I think that's been pretty well borne out by many other e-commerce consumer-centric companies. So that's a fundamental of why we believe this transcends any particular geo as well as any particular vertical. Again, we actually see more variety of touch points for these significant life events, searching for a job, searching for a car, selling your car.

So I think we actually can compose back to what I call that 2 dimensions of both geo and vertical into a single set of algorithmic AI plus proprietary data sets that let us apply to new problems. That's kind of, I think, our fundamental hypothesis. Now as far as why one European-wide company, Christian, maybe you can talk to that.

No, I think -- I mean, just to the example, if you've seen the Pepsi example, we're starting in Portugal. We're not selling Poland. That gives you a clear understanding on how we're playing around the synergies. It's not -- Poland is certainly the largest countries, obviously. But we're looking for a lot of synergies from the other. So -- and as I always say, 80% to 85%, it's everywhere the same business because buying a house and selling a house Unfortunately, whether you do it in Germany, in France, Portugal, it's not so much different. People are looking everywhere for the same. What is the valuation? Is it fitting? Is this? What about the supermarkets and so on and so forth. And the cars is not very different.

The only difference potentially between cars and real estate, one moves border, the other does not. What -- if that then has an impact on business, that's a different story, but that's probably the largest difference. And that's the reason why I think the synergistic element below makes a lot of sense.

So something that we have not touched and we have not basically worked at all in terms of the AI space is you can also read from an intent. So if somebody is buying an SUV, maybe he has just got a second kit. I mean, again, we are not there yet. And I know this has been talked about in my former days when I was at Scout24. But there's a lot of elements that we have not identified yet that can help us to continue to drive those businesses. we will learn.

And if I could just put one more thing on top of this, and maybe it's a bit controversial, but like execution matters. We're talking about some fundamentals. I actually think we have a track record of executing with single product, converge data, converge operational tools across our markets. I think a lot of people had some good ideas, but not everyone was able to pull it off.

So I think we have some track record that Suresh mentioned, we got ahead of this. We certainly had our own learnings along the way. I can't say everything was perfect. I think we've actually crossed -- use an old metaphor, crossed the chasm around this next now, we're seeing accelerating returns -- we're actually operating single product, multiple markets and sharing these experiences across verticals.

My second question is just actually a bit on what you described as the transition of the monetization model away from boosted listings, paid visibility, I think gaming rankings. And I'm just trying to work out how you think about that gap in the way that the transition happens and what you're doing internally to help manage what you think could be quite disruptive to the existing model?

Yes. I'm going to address and maybe let Suresh talk about this. So first of all, it's additive for us. We're making a ton of money on things like value-added services, listings, rankings, letting people compete in a competitive marketplace for placement. We love that. It's funny, and we actually -- people value it. So we're happy to provide it.

These newer services that we have some fantastic things coming, for example, that are more marketing tools for the real estate business we'll be launching in the next year or so, which actually is now new revenue streams on top of -- above and beyond just listings. So we're actually looking at these as additive.

And then over time, the ratios may change as customers choose what they prefer. But we're not trying to diminish anything. We're trying to say what net new revenue products and monetization models can we add to the mix and then look at that as a blended growth future. Suresh, maybe you can explain it better.

I think exactly. What Tim said, we're in a state of transition where we're not deprecating what we have right now, but instead peppering it with a lot more of AI tools and other stuff that becomes part of the package and also gives us a lot more of -- the customers get a lot more of leads and better returns from that without having to get boosted ads, et cetera, and trying to see how we can push the price and find the right balance of that.

And then over time, these things -- the earlier visibility products that people were paying for will deprecate automatically as these things take over. And that's the transition phase we're going through.

We are learning as we're going. And end of the day, we would want everybody to put all their inventory if possible and get the best returns as possible and not have to worry about, am I getting this or am I getting that? And that transition AI helps us a lot. and some of the tools you saw, these things are really, really easy to do for the SMB population that we talked about. And on top of that, it gives a phenomenal returns.

Any more questions?

Christian, I just wanted to follow up on one of the answers you gave to a previous question. You said to win the floor, you will not give the AI a choice, but to pick you. And I just wanted to understand what that means and what advantage OLX enjoys so that no one else can replicate it.

So I mean I will give you -- I will start, and I will hand over to Andreas because he answered the question already. But so I think the way I look at it, it's about the execution, and it's about basically making sure that the consumer because he was talking about the consumer has always access to us. So we are -- we should be present everywhere. And whether it's, as Tim was saying, AI to AI, AI to human, human to human, whatever, we need to be present everywhere. And then it boils very much down to the execution. And that's basically my -- that was my analogy or my metaphor when I was saying, I'm not going to leave them the choice.

And today, also don't leave the choice. Otherwise, I would have not been -- we would have not been able to build a brand like Automoto, Autodome, Storia, Autoit, et cetera. So if you want the mindset should stay the same. Obviously, we need now to make sure that the technology that is underlying is changing and that our execution goes against it. But that's the idea behind.

Exactly. Just building on what Christian just said, it's a couple of different things. So one is offering the best possible customer experience in every different channel. So if you are in OpenAI or if you are in Google or in any other, you basically have to have the best possible experience for the customers in each of those. So that's one thing.

The other part is being actually a first mover in each of those different channels gives also a first mover advantage. So that the young generation that gets to interact with you, interact with already strong brands, gets the trust and then you are basically very difficult to displace in addition to that. And we are moving very fast.

We are integrating with all of those different channels with all of our verticals. We announced in real estate, motors will come practically next month, and then we are moving to jobs. So everything will be there very, very soon. And we believe between that and between having very good user experience and strong brands, we will create the habit for the users that they come naturally to OLX to continue the user journey.

And probably also, I mean, Tim, maybe you want to comment, but we have also tons of content which depending on how you basically package that content, again, this will help us in different channels to steer people towards our brands.

Yes. I think that's a good point and something we really didn't talk about today, but with Lawson Trial, we actually have like a very large amount of consumer content, which is adjacent to the core listings business. And we look at extending that, packaging it. And that type of content is essential to things like the interface to upstream chat LLM-based systems. So we're actually looking across a broad things of not just listings, but the augmented data, how do we offer that up or present it to different consumer experiences make a broader funnel.

Actually, I don't want to say broader funnel. We think there's going to be dozens and dozens of funnel. That's actually a core reset for us. That's a bet. It's a strategic bet for us. But we don't believe it's going to be one single ChatGPT funnel in the future.

We think that the market will be healthy, vibrant and competitive and being able to package different experiences, different customer intents, engage people wherever they are in that buying journey. It could be long lead automotive enthusiasts. It could be job training and development for folks with exposure to local market trends. We think that's an essential part of our overall consumer experience strategy.

Sorry, can I just ask the -- I think the point is I can understand from a human user experience why somebody would choose you, but why would Andrew's avatar or agent choose you because the brand wouldn't matter.

Okay. Can I start? So the difference between Andrew is who is a human and has emotions and the machine is the emotion. The moment you take the emotion away, it will be even easier because the machine will always choose the best solution. The human will always potentially define a best solution as something he likes. That's the reason why I'm less concerned about the machine. But it's -- sorry for that.

Yes.

I think that's very helpful.

Yes, I think it's a good point. I think if I just sort of kind of say that's absolutely true. And that's why I would call like the agents will be purely rational, but they will also need to operate off of data, okay? So we actually can package and augment and give a wider set of package data and services to the agents coming to our marketplace. So even if it's like headless or Zero click or Xero UX, those agents need to operate against something interesting to differentiate and choose from. So we think the solutions of more selection, more services added, deeper data stores actually will actually be the reasons agents come to our marketplace and make those choices, even if it's purely logic, not emotion.

Exactly. So just building on top of that, at the end of the day, -- at the end of the day, the fundamental aspects are still choice, trust and in some sense, pricing. And we intend to have the best possible combination for those. So exactly as I think both Christian and Tim mentioned, if you have the best choice on those, it's actually even easier for the agents to be attracted to your marketplace. And I think we are quite clear that we intend for OX to be the place where all of that is happening. I think it was one of the opening slides from Tim's presentation today.

It's Giles Stone from Jefferies. Is the importance in brand investment going to go down?

So that's a great question. No. Okay. Now the packaging and the connection to the value chain may change. The relative spend that we make, we actually vary even today market by market. But when you talk about consumers and actually discovery and trust, brand, I think, is an important part of that. And the brand is not just like a marketing brands like the entire promise of the product and the realization of that product. I think those are the brand attributes that generate, I'll call it, a virtuous growing brand. So we think those are important. We think trust is a brand attribute. And those things I don't consider.

Does an AI agent care about trust?

Yes, absolutely. Like your agents does not want to spend EUR 50,000 on a fraudulent car, okay? So essentially, how do you actually have a agentic marketplace with believing the data and actually having orchestration and rollback and protections built into that marketplace. So those are I think, essential, whether it's a human being choosing or an agent choosing, you have to believe the transaction has validity, the products are authentically.

You can do that through data...

Our data. Yes. Yes. No, I think I agree. like that is the data.

You got EUR 10 million to spend. Do you spend it on 3 data scientists and whatever, whatever or do you spend it on brand?

I'm not aware of most consumers can hire 3 data scientists.

I think the brand investment that you're alluding to is potentially something that -- and Tim was phrasing it exactly the right way. It's not about the investment above the line, TV and so on. That's I think -- I was never a big believer in the classified, especially in the verticalized space of the spend. because you never -- you're shooting at a little bird with a big canon, which doesn't make any sense. I think what we need to build, and that's still the point of Tim, is we need to build something that's very comprehensive that is paying into the brand. That's what it is.

So I think the old brand investment, like I give you EUR 10 million and do radio and that, I think that's not what is needed, especially not in our cases where we have so strong brands. I think you need to keep those brands at a level, but it's what you put into the brand, what the product is looking like, the convenience, the trust, that's what is important.

Okay. Great. We got that. And then I wanted to come back to the margin impact from an ever larger channel. In the hypothetical you put forward, it was like, I think you said OpenAI is going to win just be when it takes all in generative search. How can you credibly sit here and say that they won't just set any price that they want? Because you put some numbers up and I don't have my glasses on me, so I couldn't read the footnote. Can you really sit here and say hand on hard that OpenAI is going to be a fair price setter in this 5-year forward hypothetical?

Let me quickly recap what I put there. So I've taken a solution -- taken a situation where organic search was X percent and I said half of that gets paid now and comes from an LLM, whoever that is, an agenting LLM or whatever, it comes to that and it comes at a price. And the price I assumed was 50% more than today's price, assuming I'm buying a bigger traffic and I have to pay that. could hypothetically an LLM be the market choice or leader by far? And could they insist on pricing, monetizing it widespread at any price so far? It's all hypothetical. Yes, maybe.

But the question is, then, a, the customer value proposition that they're going to do is going to start dying down. And there's enough capital in their competitive set who could come in. And you could see the ad in the Super Bowl, where people were clearly saying, I don't push for price and give you whatever junk you want. That's the way it is. So what I'm saying is, I don't know, hypothetically, can OpenAI be the #1 LLM by choice and they're going to push everybody to say, pay to participate?

Sure, could happen. And would the Chinese leave it or will the European LLM or something else come up, Mister or something come up, who knows? It's a very hypothetical space. But we didn't see that happen with Google. Google didn't put up beyond, say, free search in the old world. They didn't say you only pay to search, but they have to keep the vibrancy of the platform going. I don't see how OpenAI could do anything different. If they insist that you only pay and only participate, then they'll become a completely machine monetization-led funnel. And then people will stop believing what this is going to say.

It's Will Packer from BNP Paribas. A couple of quick follow-ups. Just going back to that bear case scenario. Could you talk me through why you see the bear case is only 7% of traffic going to LLMs? That was kind of the implicit one, right? Because it was 15% of traffic via organic search and half of it being replaced. Just sort of what's your thinking as -- I suppose when I speak to bearish investors in the classifieds, if you were to paint a scenario where only 7% of traffic was LLM based, I think that's a pretty benign outcome.

Again, this is my hypothetical case, right? Today, our traffic is 0.03%. It's less than even 1%. Could that become 7%? Maybe. Could it come at a price 50% more than what I paid? Maybe. Could it be not 7%, could it be 14%? Then the question is, will somebody coming through an agentic AI source organically not find us given all the markers we're talking about, the proprietary data, the speed of innovation, all of that.

I'm pretty sure in a lot of agents, if there are agents crawling around, somebody has put a white coated agent out there saying, go look up a property. I'm pretty sure that's probably come to Autodon first and look it up. And that's the question is, if they're going to do that, then we're going to be the brand of choice. Now that means that organic search moving away from, say, the Facebook or the social or Google is going to move to something called Agentic. I'm assuming a worst case saying even 50% of that becomes paid at a price 50% more than what I paid today.

You can argue it's a number X or Y. My point is, for us, it's a 5% at worst case kind of a margin dilution scenario. But it's not even a margin dilution. We're already finding ways we can supplement that. We have enough investments going. And 5% in the long run for a business like classifieds, people have found answers to that repeatedly.

Just perhaps super quickly to add to what Suresh said on the -- will the agents come to ELX, you are actually measuring it from the perspective of GEO today. And typically, in most of our markets, we are both #1 and #2. So typically, our vertical is the #1 in terms of GEO references and our horizontal is the #2, and the competitors are starting from position 3 and below. That is something that we are measuring today, at least from the perspective of generative engine optimization.

And the way I think about it is, end of the day, 2 things matter from all this, you need to have a lot of good control on data and how you're going to package it to ensure it's AI friendly and the speed of development. These 2 continue, then you're going to still be the AI's choice of brand or choice of platform.

Very clear. And I suppose just to finish off, I suppose, ultimately, what you're arguing today is that this is not a segment where new entrants can use price to deflate the industry. And so for classifieds, you've always had the competitive threat of cheap alternatives that never had the network effect. So effectively, the network effects hold in the agentic world, where agentic technology won't change the difficulties associated with acquiring inventory and you retain the direct traffic. That's a fair summary.

Let me jump in and maybe you guys can jump in as well. Here's how I think about it. What do we have in hand? If you think about somebody in a garage white coded and said, I'm going to build the next classified and I'm going to deflate price. Number one, what is the price we're talking about? We're talking about a classifieds take rate, which is less than 1% of the value of the car or the property, okay? What does that seller get in return? -- superior AI tools, sales efforts, proprietary knowledge, trust and safety and all of that.

Now this seller or this white coder need to go replicate that and a, go after all of those distributed and fragmented supply, a lot of people who don't even go log into their computer every other day, you'll have to go and tell them, we have something that's going to do that. It's -- and on top of that, the current cost of entry of paying the classifieds price and what they're going to get is cutting edge.

So that's what makes us comfortable in arguing this case here. I'm never saying no, never, but all I'm saying is -- if I were somebody in the outskirts of Poland selling 10 cars, I'd be really hard-pressed to believe why would I go into something else, first, getting access to know if that is something like that out there. And number two, instead of paying my, I don't know, $20, $30 for participating on a particular car, why would I go into something I don't even trust -- and I'm getting all these sales efforts.

If I can add, I think you raised a really good concept of the network effect, what's that value of the network. Like one is today, and I think class, it is a very efficient network. It was very well cash amortized. The had a concentration of supply and the demand was very efficiently acquired and injected into that network. I don't think that will change, but the bar for providing a great network what, okay? And that's what I call the data, proprietary data and the algorithm API. So we kind of had a really great run and not just classified in the ad business of network effects with a relatively low value add.

Now we're in a technology business. We must add new value year-over-year. So adding that value is what we're talking about is the agentic services in our network go from just exposure or just eyeballs to actually the transactional infrastructure of the network. So we think that still is the core -- rephrasing what I was saying earlier, I love the network metaphor is the network has to be more valuable than the alternative. And we believe those verticalized networks and the augmentation that we are working toward in those vertical networks will be highly differentiated versus broad horizontal undifferentiated networks.

That's the reason why Kim, suresh here. I would have given you the answer to say, yes, you're right.

Might be.

Why haven't we heard about Prosus' large commerce model today?

This is something that we are actually working very closely with the Process AI team, and they are already using it. So when I'm referring to deep personalization, this is very much in collaboration with Process AI, and it is building on top of the LCM. But generally, LCM is a very generic, very powerful personalization engine. And then on top of that, you build a specific customer-facing experience that utilizes LCM as the personalization layer. So the customer-facing experience might be still I don't know, as we said, Compass GPT or it might be add to video. But the deep insights in terms of personalization in many of those use cases will be coming from LCM.

And can I make a little bit of humor here. That's also because Calin told me we only had 5 slides. LCM -- and those of you who are staying for the next couple of days, we'll probably see some of our marketing teams who actually were both training process LCM, our own data set and then feeding that into things like CRM. We are generating tremendous success in our marketing.

How many people at OLX are working on that?

Oh my gosh, my CRM is probably my most efficient team is probably 4 technologists and like 7 or 8 marketing people driving this. So it's highly automated. I call it 24/7 data mining. It's all agentic off of the LCM infrastructure, feeding that and doing, I'll call it, real-time closed-loop triggers and marketing optimization, all based on the LCM itself.

Big fans of the LCM.

We love that. It's just one of many things that we love...

Yes. I think it goes further than just the LCM. I mean, let's face it because the question comes from that angle. Prosus is a good shareholder for us because they are investing huge tons of money, of which we're benefiting. And I think this is something that probably goes beyond the LCM, and that's the reason why I think we are happy to be participants of it. We are contributing, but we're also getting a lot of it. And I think that's the most important message that I'm looking into if I look at it from a CEO's perspective is how is the work? How is basically the synergies going. And that's exactly what happened.

Just to add to that, we are having -- I'm going to do a little punt now, a tech day on the 12th of March. And so that's kind of -- well, it's one of the topics that will be showcased at that particular event. So 12th of March, Amsterdam, do we have a time?

And Tim will be rather again.

You'll have a slide, he will be able to have a slide.

I've got one more. So there's, I guess, 3 core verticals, jobs, real estate, autos. Do you have any theory as to what kind of pace each vertical might move into a kind of LLM and agentic environment because they are, in some ways, quite different, like house is much more expensive than a car, cars and houses both have images, jobs don't, cars of physical assets for dealers oone.ere puts and takes to this. Like which is going to happen quickest?

So let's say, most likely case is that jobs will be one that is moving faster and not only for the reasons that you mentioned, but because both the supply and the demand can be completely digitalized and accessed by agents. So if I really have to bet, I would say probably it is jobs. Between motors and real estate, it's arguable, but it's probably a bit more likely that motors moves faster and real estate after that. But as I said, from our perspective, we are preparing very much that all 3 will have the capabilities, both from the demand side and from the supply side to support agent journeys very, very soon.

And potentially, it's a bit of an internal element is probably jobs is the last vertical that came to the party. Therefore, it doesn't have a lot of legacy in terms of old product, et cetera. So we have the opportunity to think it immediately from an AI perspective, and that's exactly what we're doing. And I think that's the reason why maybe it's going to be faster and also the approach -- because the approach from the very beginning is very different.

Okay. I'm just going to go to the webcast. So Cesar from Bank of America asked, I have 3 questions. One, in your bear case -- I'll do them one by one. In your bear case example, you mentioned that listings are very fragmented. Does this apply only to Poland as some car markets are B2B and it's also very different to real estate?

No. I think most of the supply is fragmented across all the verticals. It may be slightly different when you are a pure play, say, motors vertical that focuses on a particular subsegment of dealer space, say that's probably in La Central. But other than that, usually supply is quite decentralized and fragmented across most of our countries.

And then a second question, which was asked also by Marcus from JPMorgan. You're talking about increasing the take rate, but aren't LLMs going to allow users to find cars or property on any website or app. Could that actually not put pressure on prices as listers don't need to be present on the classified app or space that has the highest traffic?

Again, this goes back to the fragmented supply. A large part of our supply that pays us is SMBs who have like 10 cars, 6 cars, 5 cars, 3 cars, 87% are 3 or less. And they're scattered, and they're all across the place. Now they are getting cutting-edge tool. They're getting cost of participation that is not prohibitive or inhibitive to their future. I don't see why they would not participate through us and get discovered and their supply gets discovered. So definitely, it's I don't see that as a big risk.

And I would also add for Marcus, working capital that the dealer has every day that he doesn't sell the car is about EUR 35 to EUR 50 that he is basically losing. So trying to go a route and finding something that may be a bit cheaper will cost him far more money than basically staying with us where everybody knows this is the place to go because of the network effects even in an AI agentic world.

And also, just to remind people, right, we are just not providing visibility. We're not getting them just having somebody see their ads. We're giving them real-time chat solutions. We're giving them valuation advice. We're giving them AI platforms, dealer management tools. We have so many different things. And to Christian's point, every day of delay of working capital pays off their cost of entry in that classified that's not take rate. So they are more worried about speed. And they want to get it out.

At the right price. If you look into the AutoIQ thing, I mean, we have them sourcing. The sourcing is not just getting the car, it's getting the car at the right price because the system also knows what that car basically should be sold at. So there are a lot of intelligent elements within that, that others potentially are not able to replicate because we also not have the proprietary data. We are able to advise and say, if you want to sell that car, you need to go down by EUR 500, not 1,000, not EUR 250, EUR 500. And this is something that I think it's underestimated when you think in the global scheme of take rate.

Yes. And I kind of ripping on that point, and I think Suresh made it well is like that approach where, I'll call it, federated inventory being searchable through an LLM, that's the exposure model. We think the exposure model is the past. We're still making money from it fantastic. But we look at it as sellers in the value-add model, the tooling, that's the full package of augmentation because these are super high-value transactions. They're cars, their houses, their employees. These things are substantially expensive.

So every tool that we can give these folks with better data, better integration, being more third-party ecosystem services to this, I'll call it, value network, further pushes the center of transactional orchestration into a verticalized marketplace, not just an exposure marketplace pushed up to an LLM strategy. Other people may tell you differently, but we feel convicted that that's what our customers are asking for and where we think the value lies in our business.

And then the third question, do you think apps can disappear midterm and be replaced by a super agent or app?

Do I think apps will disappear by super agent? No. I think you will see all varieties, we say modalities or delivered vehicles will continue to exist. That's what I would call agent to human, to agent, agent to agent. We think all those permutations are super important. Like again, my personal example would be that I think humans for quite some time will still want human connection with looking at a real estate property where they will live with their family. I think we'll still see apps that are dedicated and there'll be some human connection to actually appointment setting and view properties personally.

I think there are also cases an agent to agent will be the dominant factor. And then I know we've seen this pendulum has swung in different areas of technology life and e-commerce and advertising of one single app to all their apps versus fragmentation.

I actually think what I've observed in both classifieds and other businesses is fragmentation tends to win over time and the cost of fragmentation, which is the product development costs and marketing costs are actually going down. I think AI is making it easier to build purpose-built apps, purpose-built experiences. They're all sitting on top of the safe agent to core for sure. So I do not forecast a world where there's one agent which does everything for all people. I don't think that's a realistic competitive bet. Andreas, do you want to?

No, I think that I actually completely agree. Generally, we see a world that there are multiple starting points of the user experience. multiple LLM providers, at least for sure, Google and OpenAI, perhaps Perplexity and others will end up playing there. And we intend to be integrated on all of those. So that's one part. And then the other part is we are really believing that verticalized experiences win over time.

And to a large extent, this is for sure true today. You saw that with the Pepsi Alen example. But we believe that this will be continuing even in the future to be the case because it really takes quite a bit of effort and expertise and domain knowledge to create those experiences and be excellent and of course, data and be excellent for each of those types of different cases.

So perhaps there are scenarios that different, let's say, starting points of the experience that are mostly dominated by major players, but still the verticalized aspect will dominate, we believe, at least the middle and bottom funnel even in the worst-case scenarios.

You spoke a lot about how quickly you are moving. What are the 2 or 3 constraints that if you could remove them, would allow you to move even faster? Or what are the 2 or 3 things that if you could dream about you would choose to do?

Is it okay to say regulatory? I don't know. That's a great question. What can we do to go faster? I'm going to say you kind of caught me without a direct answer. Suresh has done a great job of optimizing our capital investment flows. So we think we have tons of capital to apply to these problems. I would say it's -- some of it is probably not in our control is consumer behavior. We like to lead that slightly, but people have to kind of look forward to an agentic world.

So I think that's part of it. I think part of it is there's a large gap between an idea and like making it realized, I'll call it product market fit or making things really work well for consumers. I think that's part of the product development process and experimentation.

So can we make that go faster? I'm sure there are things we could do, but we think we're running at like top speed right now. So I don't think anything immediate comes to mind. Then I would say the third piece is how do we reach more of these SMB customers through sales, marketing and expanding our core base.

So we've done some of that through geographic expansion. We brought Laws on Trial into the family. And we are constantly looking at how to bring more rooftops, more inventory of existing customers, which gives us more to work with. So those are the, I think, the model drivers to me of what would help us go faster, but that's just my ad hoc answer. Maybe there's something else I would think of.

I'm pretty sure Tim would also say the 2 generic ones, availability of great talent. It's not very easy to get this kind of talent, and there's always a war for talent. And I think we always try to be ahead of the curve on that. And the second thing is a lot of data and proprietary data, the more you can expand it. I mean it's very tough to replicate that through synthetic data in our space. It's so embedded. -- that if you have both of these, then you'll continue to grow.

And then maybe, Christian, if you want to take the last question about the dreaming a little bit. What are the 1 or 2 things if you can weigh the magic wand.

Now I need to get a dream, okay. But I mean, ultimately, I think we have laid out a picture that we believe is the right strategy. We have a lot of conviction in it. And I think if we come back here, let's say, in 3, 4 years' time, probably all the prediction that Suresh has around the bull case is true. That's sort of the dream case. I think that our execution speed has not only quadrupled but have tenfolded.

And Tim is basically still happy because there are apps and the fragmentation in the market is still existing. Now but Jo aside, I think that's probably the picture that I want to paint. I'm not -- it's not about dreaming. It's about what we are driving reality.

And I think with the reality that we're driving the vision we have, the strategy we have, the clear focus on our businesses, this is something that should basically deliver outcomes of which we probably don't believe today that are possible, but they are possible.

Okay. I think that's a good note to end on. Thank you all for your time. The wonderful say has organized transport through to the restaurant that we will be going through to later. And then you'll have time to spend more time with our executives and they can explain to you how you should be managing your investment portfolio in this space. Thank you.

Thank you very much

[Presentation]

Hello partners. How are you? Welcome to our results call. I hope you received and you enjoyed our results today. I'm quite excited to what we shared today. At the same time, we could share you more about our growth not only that we are growing 20%, but even more important that our ecosystem thesis is working. So I enjoyed very much to share the numbers of Despegar. It's not only 5% of Despegar revenue coming from the iFood ecosystem, but we share the data week by week. You can see a very strong growth. I'm quite confident we will get to 10%, 15% in the short term. So this is the base of our thesis, our ecosystem thesis, we are growing very fast in iFood, but we are pushing Despegar to grow together.

At the same time, we could share a little of our numbers in terms of results. You saw we grew 70% to $530 million. I think it's great to share this number with you. One year ago, I told you I expect us to be -- have more profit than the dividends, and I expect us to get to multiple billion dollars of profit. And many people said, I can't see Prosus doing that. So I hope you can see Prosus doing that today. We are going to get between $1.1 billion to $1.2 billion in adjusted EBITDA this year, excluding JET and LA CENTRALE.

So we can expect I don't know $1.2 billion, $3 billion, $4 billion of EBITDA this year and for a couple of billion dollars of profit in the next few years. So I'm quite excited about our numbers in terms of results. We keep the discipline. We sold $1.2 billion, but we are on track to sell at least $2 billion this year of our assets. We keep our buyback. Now we sold -- we bought back more than $40 billion, generating more than $60 billion in results. So I think we keep the discipline, we keep the growth -- but I want to reinforce all of that is the foundation to how we are going to build a much bigger company.

So innovation is growing amazingly [indiscernible]. I wanted to do a bigger session on innovation now, but because of the timing, we decided to focus on numbers today, but in a few weeks by December 15, maybe January 15, we are going to make a much longer presentation on how AI is changing our lives in terms of live commerce models, in terms of assistance. You saw we had 20,000 assistant already. So I could talk a lot about innovation. I hope you make questions about that. It's quite exciting.

So our moment now is execution, execution, execution. We had some discipline also in M&A. A few M&As are focusing growth. For example, the Indian ones, [indiscernible] and [indiscernible], they are growing [indiscernible] is growing more than 120% year-over-year. We are very excited about that. A few M&As are increasing our profitability, like La Centrale and Despegar. So I think the company is doing good. I'm excited about the results. I hope you have many exciting questions for us today. And my priority now execute go to those few billion dollars in results. We are just getting started. We really want to build at least $100 billion outside of Tencent and one of the best tech companies in the world. Let's talk more about that today.

So let's go for our questions. Mr. Eoin, right, guide us.

Speaking of just getting started, let's get started on the Q&A. Catherine, why don't you -- if you could remind the audience how to ask a question, please? And then I'll start off with a quick question. So please, Catherine.

[Operator Instructions]. I will now hand back to your host, Eoin Ryan, to take your questions.

That's great, Catherine. Thanks very much. It's great to be here today, and it's good to hear from you guys. As you said, Fabricio, I think we're following through on our commitments. One such commitment was investment in our ecosystems. The biggest investment to date has been Jet, and I think it's on the minds of most of investors. So can you give us a little update? We're a few days in since the delisting of Jet? What's the future look like?

Let's talk about Jet. First, we closed the Jet transaction completely a few weeks ago. But just last Monday or Tuesday, we changed the management -- the Supervisory Board. So now I and a few other people from Prosus are part of the Supervisory Board of Jet for the last 6 days. So what I can tell you, we are very, very confident. As you saw, we shared lots of data on Despegar, how it's growing, how we are working on the ecosystem. On Jet, we have just 6 days. So it would not be appropriate to share today. What I can tell you, first, we are this week working a lot with Jet on our key set of culture to enable the company to think big, move faster and grow a lot.

Jet is not growing over the last few years, as you know, obviously we know that's true. I'm very, very confident that together, we deliver a company that grow faster and is much better. The first big thing is on culture. It's happening right now the replanning of Jet. That's why I couldn't add the numbers because we need a few more weeks to have projections for Jet. At the same time, our focus besides culture. And again, you saw me here last we on [indiscernible], the results we have today is because of the change of culture 1 year ago. Besides of culture, technology and product are the 3 big areas of energy of our efforts.

On technology, we need again to move faster and to make sure Jet becomes a more a tech-first company with first-class technology in the world using AI to take all its decisions. On products, we have to make sure that a few areas that Jet is a little say, behind, we get -- we move faster, for example, loyalty program that is core in Latin America, but it's not ready here in Europe. So we are going to push those 3 things. We expect to push it in November and December. Hopefully, in January, we have a few results to share. Today, it is still too soon.

But I can tell you that I am -- Jet is not performing well. We all know that, but the level of confidence I have that we will have a company growing again and competing very well is very, very high. And probably you know I like some letters from the CEO, maybe we share a letter from the CEO, but we can share more inform Jet. But you have more specific questions, I can answer today.

It's the holiday season for letter writing, so maybe you can [indiscernible] investors there. Okay. Well, thanks. I'm sure there'll be some follow-up questions on that throughout the call. But let's open it up to the audience. And I think the first question is coming from Will Packer of BNP.

Two from me, please. Firstly, Fabricio, you talked to optimizing the buyback in your prepared remarks video. Could you help us think through the implications of that optimizing? Is it the current buyback run rate of $6 billion to $7 billion as the new normal for FY '26, '27 and beyond? Or should we think of you cutting the buyback?

And then it sounds like it's fair to assume that there's going to be some flexibility of funding perhaps away from Tencent towards Meituan and free cash flow. In terms of my second question, the global online classified share prices have sold off sharply in recent weeks following the OpenAI Developer Day and Rightmove's AI profit warning. Fabricio specifically, Gen AI is central to your vision for the group. How are you thinking about the risk and opportunity for classifieds in terms of Gen AI? Does this recent sell-off make the sector an increasingly attractive potential use of your M&A firepower? Or would you rather see the dust settle first?

Thank you. Thank you for the questions. First, you asked about optimizing the buyback. You have lots of good numbers there. I don't need to repeat all of them. But in general, as we said, the buyback is more or less $6 billion to $7 billion this year. We have an open buyback.

We are going to keep an open buyback the way it is. I like buybacks because I think we are if our company is cheap, we should be investing in our own company and increasing the value of the shareholders that want to stay. So we are going to keep doing that. On the other side, I think the company we have today is a very different process than it was 2, 3 years ago. Remember, again, 1 year ago, I said we are going to get to multiple billion dollars of profit. Many shareholders didn't see it coming. It is coming. But hopefully, you can see that in the numbers that we are sharing today. So Prosus is on a different moment. The discount is on a different moment. Tencent is on a different moment. I'm a big fan of Tencent. I think Tencent is going to be a big winner in the AI race. Tencent is positioned for that in China.

And if you compare the multiples of Tencent versus everything else in U.S. There is a lot of space to Tencent keep growing. So it's exactly what I said, optimizing the buyback. We are going to keep the buyback as we have, but I'm not going to say names of other companies. People ask me not to name other companies. I can tell you that there is other companies in our portfolio that we believe has smaller growth potential than Tencent, growth and strategic potential than Tencent. And yes, we are going to sell these companies and use this money also to keep a buyback. So what we are going to see is optimize exactly that.

Eventually, the buyback is, I don't know, $1 billion, maybe $0.5 billion is from Tencent, $0.5 billion is for other companies that we can sell and use the cash to -- I think the right word to use to make a better capital allocation, with the #1 company in China, growing fast, well positioned to win in the AI race. Not the best decision to me to sell Tencent even if we increase the value per share. So if we can optimize selling other things and increasing our participation, that's what we intend to do. We expect to sell at least $2 billion this year. And how can I say, you can expect that we are going to do buybacks using other source that is not Tencent.

Just to remind shareholders, although we're selling our Tencent stake on a per share basis, we actually increased our exposure in Tencent by the share buyback with the other proceeds from other divestments. And I will further enhance on a per share basis the exposure to Tencent compared to continuing on the current path. So I think that is a critical way of how we can further enhance the share buyback.

For example, there's other company that we believe has less focus today than they should. We could sell that we believe has less focus and invest more or sell less of that we believe are performing well, has less focus and we believe are going to the Chinese market. So that's what I mean by optimizing.

Those companies are the companies you're talking about as the additional EUR 2 billion, right? That's just to be clear.

At least 2 billion we already sold 1.2 billion, so at least -- and can we use this money to offset, let's say, sell 1 billion from other companies are true. Yes.

That's something we've seen from the group in many years, a more active portfolio management.

Yes. The buyback was 100% automatically. That's what I don't mind. We should say we should sell more or less and we should select better what to sell to buy.

Great-- and to the second question.

Yes. The second question was on AI and classifieds, you said. Many people sometimes ask me, if I think -- I'm not the first one this week, if I think AI could have an impact on classifieds. My answer is it's much bigger than that. I think AI is going to have impact in classifieds on e-commerce and food delivery, in investing in analyst reports from banks, AI is going to have impact everywhere. Obviously, as you know, the market today is a little too heavy. So everyone looks like AI winner. But there will be AI wins that will create trillions of dollars of value, not only trillions of dollars of cost, but trillions of dollars of value, and it is going to happen. How I see that on classifieds.

The point here is not if AI is going to hit your industry or not? Because if you think AI is not going to hit your industry, you are wrong. It will hit our industry. The point is how we play our game on that industry. And I think what we are doing here in [indiscernible] is very, very good. We are not like -- you said some other company or you said some classifieds went down [indiscernible]. Other -- the again, other classifieds companies, they have been much more conservative in technology, and they invested much less to be classified people were, how can I say, surfing the high profitability without investing a lot in technology.

That's not our approach. [indiscernible] as a group is investing in large commerce model to understand the customers better than itself and use data to improve our companies. We're investing a lot on agents. We have more than 20,000 agents doing everything, including many things on classifieds. We're investing a lot in ventures and the only focus of ventures from now is not to be a venture capital that invest in everything, to invest in companies that can make our ecosystem run better or that can run better because our ecosystem. So these 3 areas has profound impact in our classified business.

We are using the large commerce model to run better classified business and ads. On agents, we are running a lot of our services to agents, for example, taking care of customers, taking care of retailers. Remember our classifieds less horizontal, more focused in real estate and jobs and -- so we are taking care of the auto retailers and our partners. And third, we are investing in early-stage AI companies that can are betting in growing in classified. So we can make these companies grow faster. And we can also make our classifieds not only keep growing, but disrupt other classifieds.

So yes, AI will have impact. I think Prosus is very well positioned about that because everything we are doing. We could talk about that for 1 hour. But part of our positive results, not because we are lucky or because our markets just grow is because we are selling better. We are reducing the cost of ads. We are increasing the efficiency of the company. We have -- we are reducing the requirement for hiring people because our agents expand our working capacity.

So we are doing a lot of classifieds. For example, [indiscernible]. We just invested in one company that are automating through agents, the relationship between real estate and their customers. We are doing that by ourselves, and we invest in a company that is growing like 300%, doing the same thing. Our classifieds is very well positioned to use AI as a competitive advantage. So that's how I see growth.

And the next question is going to come from [indiscernible].

I've got 2, please. First one is to follow up on Will's question on optimization of the buyback and to understand how it relates to where the discount is at a given period in time.

It's been observable that the cadence of buybacks has slowed down in the last few months as the discount has stayed in that kind of high 20s to 30-ish percent zone depending on your definition of the NAV. So should we kind of see that as a signal that the company feels there's less attractive opportunities in buying its own shares relative to the rest of the NAV at these levels?

And should we expect the buyback to move up or down depending on where the discount is? That's the first question. The second one is to follow up on the opening remarks on Jet. I appreciate it's going to be hard to give guidance today. But if you could give us a flavor like the level of investment that you'd like to put into Jet, that would be very helpful..

Thank you, Andrew. On the buyback, I was concentrating the Jet. You want more information on...

Whether it's a function of the discount coming down, the buyback.

What I said is what I don't like is to have a completely automatic thing. So it's a function of many things, how well we are doing, how fast we are growing, how profitable we are, how our discount is. You said that was around 26, 27 over the last 1 month, 2 months. I am an optimistic founder. So you can discount my optimistic opinion. But I will also 1.5 years later, remind you that we are delivering everything that we promised 1 year ago. We are delivering the growth, profitability, the discipline, the complete reset on culture and the innovation.

So my optimistic vision is discount will go down more because if the business is very valuable and we have $1 billion, $3 billion, $4 billion in profits in our core that is playing well [indiscernible], et cetera, I will call you later to ask why is the reason to have this level of discount at $26 or $7 or $8 that it was. So considering all of that, the buyback is going to be more aggressive or less aggressive. My point on optimization now specifically is if we can keep buying back, but not only from Tencent, but from Tencent and other assets that we are selling, this is much better for us all. So that's what we are trying to implement now. I [indiscernible] another question.

Yes, it was on the level of investment for Jet.

Yes, the level of investment for Jet. It's not the problem, to be honest, Andrew, not the problem today. So how I see that? First, would I invest more in Jet? Yes. My problem today is not invest more in jet that we became operators of the company 6 days ago. We are having the full week of meeting to plan the next 3 or 4 months. The government doesn't even have a plan for the next 3 or 4 months because their budget stops in December. So we are doing today to tomorrow, the planning for the next 3 or 4 months. So we had a discussion last week, should be doing like in 1 day a proposal.

The answer is no, you have our guidance without Jet. We will give more information on the guidance with Jet as soon as we have it. But I want to reinforce first, the problem is not the level of investment to me. The problem is the efficiency, 2 things. First, Jet is under delivering what they promise their current guidance, what they are delivering is less than the current guidance. But second, the efficiency of the investment in Jet has to improve before any other movement.

So I'm not going to increase investment directly in Jet, if I don't think we are making the I could put $100 million in Jet. It's not very well invested, it's not worthwhile. So right now, we are trying to rebalance return on investments on investments and help technology improve return on investments. That's why the guidance for the next 2, 3, 4 months, they are not very valuable because if we think we can improve a lot in 45 days, I have to run it first and see the results, then a new guidance.

So that's why we need 45 days to have a better view on Jet numbers. But I just want to reinforce, Nico want to complement, but to reinforce our level of confidence that we can run Jet better in terms of growth and profitability is very, very high. And we will share in details more about that when we share more data on Jet.

And Andrew, maybe just to comment on Fabricio said that Jet did not perform well. It was a listed company until last week. Last time it came to the market, you would have seen that order growth was negative 7%. Company guided at that stage given their own internal metrics in euro terms, they reported in euros EBITDA of about EUR 360 million for the calendar year FY '25, which is December '25. Now what I can say to you that some of those trends have continued during Q3, where we've seen further reduction in some of the order growth -- and that will cause and have an impact in terms of the original guidance. Our expectations measure against that is that I will materially invest EUR 360 million. Anyway, my confidence on Jet growing faster and improving result is very high. But since we have 6 days, you need to update the numbers on Jet in the next call.

I think the important thing to point out here is that the acquisition was not made on the results of this year. The acquisition was made on the expectations for turnover multiyears, which is what you're talking about as planning has just begun on that.

Yes. So as I said, on these 6 days, we think the numbers are bad because of this reduction of 6% I believe that in 45 days with a strong reset and culture and moving faster in tech, we have good news to share, but we can do that today because it's too early.

Thank you, Andrew. And the next question we'll take from Cesar at Bank of America.

I just want to focus on M&A. So I have a couple of questions on it. The first one, do I understand correctly that the available firepower for M&A is still around $8 billion? That's the first one. The second one, should we expect you to pose a little bit M&A as you focus on integrating all these assets and focusing on the ecosystems?

Or should we expect any large transactions in the next couple of months? And then the third one, it seems to me that you've been talking a lot more about India recently. Should we understand that this is back as a focus area for you? So I felt you talked a little bit more about it than at the Capital Markets Day, for example.

Let me take the first one. So Cesar, thanks for the question. So at the end of September, from a total group perspective, we had $20 billion of cash on the balance sheet, about $18 billion of that related to our central corporate cost, corporate cash position. And subsequent to September, we have settled, of course, the Jet acquisition as well as LA CENTRALE. So that was about $7 billion that were spent on that. So on a pro forma basis, it leaves us with about $11 billion of cash at the center. And obviously, we need some liquidity buffer against that. So what is available for M&A is, I would say, at least $8 billion and more from a balance sheet perspective.

That said, our priority is not to spend $8 billion or more or [indiscernible] on big acquisitions right now, big priority by far. I think I want to highlight one thing. First, our execution has been very, very good. We talk more about on those meetings, but [indiscernible] is doing very good, very profitable, growing well. So we have good expectations with LA CENTRALE synergies. And second, again, when we announced the -- just acquisition, many people said, but it's expensive. We really don't believe. I think we are paying -- we paid $4 billion to $5 billion in something that should have $15 billion. That's what we have to build.

So my biggest priority by far is how we make sure get back growing with the best technology and products in the world and really win in Europe. That's our biggest priority by now. So as [indiscernible] read in the newspapers on the 2 or 3 rumors intends to expand $5 billion to $10 billion things. I can tell you that we read on the newspapers, the rumors, we are quite much focused in delivering right now. And again, I think now I have some reputation inside Prosus. We deliver the numbers we promised. And also, I always talk about transparency. We will give transparency just after a few more weeks or months or quarter.

So like you said in your opening remarks, it's focused on execution, execution, execution, right? And then the other question that Cesar had was on India and whether it's a bigger focus right now.

Yes. We talked a lot about the last few days. I met Prime Minister 3 days ago. So it was all in the news that we are talking about. It was really great, to be honest. I'm always complaining Europe has to move faster and talk about creating big tech companies and meeting Prime Minister was how we move faster. He asked me, let's do more.

So it was a very inspiring conversation. I think what we've done in India is very good. We are the biggest FTI, international investor in India. Many of our companies has more value to unlock. So we promised you a few IPOs in the last 12 months. Most of them happened. We still have an expectation that there will be another very big IPO and that's going to be big and good of our amazing company. So our returns on investment in India are quite positive. We invested in the last 1 month, I think, in 2 companies that are growing very fast, is growing 120% #1 company mobility [indiscernible] is growing very fast. I don't know now, maybe 70%, something around that. And they are very good online travel agents and travel and mobility, too.

So I think we are keeping the consistency in the areas we want to invest. We are keeping the idea of ecosystem synergies and I expect a lot more good news from India, not only like spending a lot of money, but we put that in the presentations. PayU for years, including you, our analysts complaining that PayU has to perform better. PayU is profitable. Finally, after many years, the profitability of PayU is growing quarter-by-quarter quite well, month by month, even better. PayU is helping other companies to grow faster and other companies are helping Pay to grow faster. So and [indiscernible] Ixigo getting closer to our ecosystem will create another positive impact. We are excited that we are going to build more many billions dollars in value in [indiscernible].

I think -- and it's clear you can see the operational improvement in the owned and operated PU, but you're also seeing that increasing connectiveness of all of the individual pieces within the ecosystem working together a little bit more.

So you see this time we shared lots of data in Latin America. Probably you saw that Shark rev in the loyalty in the center and many business around benefit from these customers, and we even shared some data. We are doing the same thing in India. The results are good. We are going to share more data with that in the next few months. So we don't expect to spend $8 billion in India right now, but to keep having good results in terms of ecosystem building in India. And I think the latest investments are very good [indiscernible].

And with au now profitable, we can say that all of our main businesses are indeed profitable, which is something we've never been able to say. And when you think about millions to 1 billion and then to multiple billions, that's certainly a necessary thing.

All the business runs.

All right Cesar. So thanks very much for the questions, and we'll move to Michael.

Yes. First of all, thank you for letting us ask the questions and for the presentation. So the first one is actually in iFood. So with [indiscernible] now ramping up their presence in the Brazilian food delivery market, what are your thoughts? And what have you seen since October?

And then how do you think this is going to impact iFood's growth trajectory over the next year to 2 years? And then maybe just touching on India. So you mentioned that there's a lot more collaboration between yourselves and the different companies that you have minority stakes in. How do you think about monetizing that going forward? Is that largely given from yourselves? Or are they providing data back at a higher rate?

I understand the name of the question [indiscernible] yourself -- it's a connection of between the companies in India and particularly the minority trust companies and whether there's -- how do we facilitate data sharing to improve the [indiscernible].

So first on iFood, I think many of you were in Brazil and visiting Brazil 1 or 2 months ago. The people that were there, they could see iFood is more than one business that they're doing the same thing for the last 5, 7 years. The reason iFood is growing so fast. We just got through including all the business, 160 million orders -- just to remind you, last time we met, celebrated $100 million $160 million orders is because it's a company innovating and rethinking how we offer business and offer the best technology for our customers.

So obviously, we have competition now, more competition that is DT and [indiscernible] is also entering Brazil just entered. Those 2 companies entering a few cities, 2 or 3, spending a lot of money per order, like they have discounts of 20%, 50%, 60%, sometimes 70% in an order. So my advice to you, just check later how much they are paying to be there competing. And look, if you give a free meal to someone people, we eat for free. It will have it. But is it sustainable to have the best service, best offer over time.

And remember, this is in the core, that is the food delivery. iFood today have besides the core, a big loyalty program that gives free delivery plus discount on Despegar, plus discount, I think, 1,000 other companies. We have fintech. We have dine-in. We have POS machines in the restaurants where we take transactions. We have [indiscernible] where we put orders in the restaurants. We have a credit card voucher credit card with 1 million people buying food with a credit card, paying to iFood. We have the business of ads that is going super well. We invest in 2.

We bought one company we invested in [indiscernible], great company in terms of loyalty. We have classified the integration with Despegar is a big success. So everything that buys in iFood, they get 3 points to use on Despegar. We have a company for entertainment that is. We have -- we are launching now -- just now launching one city today this week, iFood plus Uber. So Uber has tens of millions of customers that are not iFood customers, and iFood has tens of millions of customers that are not Uber customers. I guarantee you that we are going to see a lot of cross-sell in the 2 best companies in the region.

So some companies are investing a lot to have the offer that we had 6 years ago, and we welcome competition. This make everyone runs faster, but it's much more than let's make the next sale of a business and cash call this business. It is, can we be the best creating new business, innovating, moving faster, iFood is doing that. So if you study around the core food delivery, you see many business. Interesting thing for you because I know you like the numbers and more my things on innovation. Fintech, we spent 2, 3 years saying fintech is the future for iFood. Fintech numbers are growing very fast and profitability in fintech is growing very fast.

So our profitability keeps growing because a few business we were investing 1, 2 years ago. I'll tell you true, fintech, groceries and selling to Whatsapp. We were losing money in the last 2, 3 years, now we are making money. So my point is a good business and there will be competition and let's fight for offering the best service for our customers. And I want to remind you, we are very focused in iFood chewing there. Some of our competitors are distracted all around the world. Even in their home markets, there is a lot of, I say, pressure to compete against other players. So we are confident, but we compete.

And Michael, you also asked in terms of given the competitive environment, how do we see in terms of what the impact of that might be. And look, in terms of the high growth rates that we're very confident that for the second half of this year, we will continue to sort of stay at those levels. And we also reiterated our confidence in our overall guidance. iFood is also investing in new product, but also against some of the competitors, but we built a lot of that into our existing processes. And we are sort of reevaluating various other projects and elements to utilize and free up funding so that we can actually fight against the competitors without changing the sort of trajectory that iFood is on for this financial year.

I think another important point though is the concept of competition for iFood is certainly not new. And over the years where they've actually had the most competition are the periods where we see the most growth. And one of the things that Diego often says is you focus on price, it's the race to the bottom, but you build a real moat through product. And what you've just described there is an ecosystem that is iFood within an ecosystem that is LatAm -- and I think you've highlighted, I think there's tremendous hidden value in that Pago business that we should and will have more to bring to you guys in the future. Now how about -- we touched on the India ecosystem. And the question there was whether -- how the business -- how you can really build the LCM and the connectivity between those businesses with them connecting data.

And you asked about minority companies.

Yes, exactly.

Look, my mind doesn't work like that. I remember the last results call, someone made the same question. If you are a minority, then you can't cooperate between the companies. I disagree. I absolutely disagree. I think we can cooperate with minority companies. We do it -- we don't do it because I call that and say, I'm boss doing what I'm saying. We do it because we call and say that's how we run fine-tuning our AI models. That's how we run customer support using AI. That's our KPIs on optimizing the partner -- our partners' relationship with agents.

When we show off that to a good company, the company say, I want it. I'm going to get this data. I want to run my open just like that. With other companies, another story, we show off that to like, but [indiscernible] showed how they are doing, I think, was multi-language customer support and said, okay, this is very good. We want to use. We want to learn more from that. So the point is not being majority or minority. And if you need to be majority to do something good because there's something wrong or you are not selling well or the guy that is not the right guy.

We can work with the minorities because we're saying this company can grow faster. These are the data and the technology that gets there. And we are cooperating well on that. One example, PayU is giving credit and working with customer profiles with users that we are minority investors, but the companies are growing faster because of PayU. That's why we are here.

And the other thing to take into account is the LLM so the LC that we're testing now in LatAm, and we're getting some of the results already in the deck. That's something that we can also bring to bear in the other ecosystems.

So today, we have an event with 80 people from all around the world being trained. We launched [indiscernible] AI house 2 weeks ago, where we have now a center of learning and knowledge of AI that everyone is traveling there to participate in the event. We are running today with 80 people inside process on fine-tuning large language models to optimize e-commerce transactions. So everything that we did in Latin America is now like now really today going to India and Europe. So we don't need to be my to do that.

And we are quite confident we have a lot of growth. curiosity, I didn't use a lot of the time of the meeting today morning to talk only about tech and innovation, but it was too much information. So we said, let's focus on numbers today. We will get back soon as soon as all want to talk to me because I want to do it in 2 weeks. But we are going to share why we are more confident than ever that we are one of the best players in AI ecommerce in the world. So we'll talk more about that.

You brought up the AI and I'll get to your questions again. But I think this is an important thing to pause out because this is something that is kind of inherent in the new culture. It's not something you would expect 1, 2 years ago. Can you talk a little bit about the AI has, why you opened it, what you're hoping to achieve because it is certainly no different.

I want to make Amsterdam the center of AI in Europe has a lot of knowledge but not vibrant community [indiscernible] every day there. So create a big space in Amsterdam, where every day we have a hackathon meeting of course. And it's open for 2 weeks. We are having every day a big event with hundreds of people, and we are helping the ecosystem and we are helping ourselves to, but we are contributing to make Netherlands a center in Europe AI. We also hosted last week, the House of opening was last week, 2 weeks ago, we hosted the Luminate an event in Europe talking about putting regulators and founders together to reinforce that [indiscernible] was one of the speakers there and President [indiscernible]. We are talking about Europe needs to move faster.

Europe needs to play to win. There are many things in Europe regulation, including the AI, congratulations in Europe because we did a big change this week, including the [indiscernible] that we think should be taking more risk to create leaders. So is taking a much more aggressive or premanent position to say, let's lead technology and regulator to create a big European tech leader, and we are very confident on our actions.

I would tell more time. That's great. Please. Are so we think don't kill my e-mail now. We'd love to have some of our investors and analysts at the AIS so we can match up certain events with your travel. So please reach out to IR. So let's move on. Thank you, Michael. We'll move on to Luke at Morgan Stanley.

So let's move on. Thank you, Michael. We'll move on to Luke at Morgan Stanley.

I just wondered if I could pick up on this thread of more competition in food delivery. So you signaled more investment in Jet. Obviously, we heard from Delivery Hero and Talabat also pointed to more investment Dash as well being a big theme over the last month.

But if we just map that through then for iFood, how can we see that progressing into FY '27? Is that kind of the trajectory that you see there? And just particularly in the context that you may need to -- do you feel like there needs to be more investment into dark stores or more 1P logistics? I'd just be interested to hear your thoughts there. And then just finally, I appreciate you might not be able to say anything, but the Delivery Hero situation. Obviously, you've got until mid-August to sell down to single digits. Is there anything that you can comment on in regards to that?

Okay. So on competition on Talabat, we have no access [indiscernible] Talabat. iFood made a projection for the year that included competitors, and we are going to deliver on our projection and our growth and everything else. So we are doing quite good. I can't talk today on the numbers for the next year. But as I told you, many of the business that we started 1 year or 2 years ago or 3 years or 4 years ago, they have become mature now. So iFood is more than the food delivery. One example is the iFood Pago.

You remember me about that. Remember that Mercado Libre has half of its profit for Mercado Pago. iFood Pago is an important part of iFood already and it's growing. So I don't have any number today to share on the next year. I can tell you that what better for this year, we are delivering, we are happy with that. And we have to do the next year in 1 or 2 months. On the [indiscernible] Hero, I'm sorry, I don't have any update on that. We have an agreement. The agreement is for 12 months. We are going to deliver in the agreement that we made. Sometimes I talk in the press that I believe that this agreement is not the best thing for Europe.

Europe would be better as a content if we have global tax champions that said we have an agreement. We are going to do the agreement according to the terms of the agreement, nothing to share. However, we are selling assets of Compass that has lower -- we are selling assets of companies. When I say we are going to sell $2 billion this year, it doesn't include delivery. So maybe we're going to sell more than $2 billion, maybe you're going to sell next year. We just don't have any update on that.

Maybe just to add to that, a lot of the investments that we're making in iFood to drive the business forward regardless of the competition are exactly in the same areas that we now need to do even better because of the competition. For instance, optimizing the delivery aspect of the business cheaper food elements, the loyalty program. All of those things we have been doing. We're just accelerating and improving even more in those spaces. And now we have the AI elements that we can add to enhance that efficiency.

And to complement Nico's point on some of the investments we did on iFood over the last 5 years that are quite big, we can replicate that in Jet starting this week because only now we are in the management of Jet. So there is lots of upside inside the ecosystem. That's what I'm selling for 1 year to you. I think Google and Microsoft and Meta and Tencent are winning not only because they have one key product, but because they have a scale in an ecosystem that enable cross-sell AI technology. We have that, and we will have benefit on that on Jet and on [indiscernible].

I think one of the things that I think has done a fantastic job of in the past is areas that required investments to scale, then don't need all of that investment going forward. You take some of that from Area A and deploy it into Area B. So it's not incremental investment always in the asset. And I think one of the questions that we get underneath this perhaps is, what does this mean for kind of your future year guidance? And what -- is this a kind of a retrenchment or a return to kind of an investment cycle. But I think you were very clear at the beginning of the call that you expect to go from the 1-point-something billion today, even 3, you said more than that. And that includes investment in the other parts of the business and food.

So I ask you the credibility to think that first time we talk about $2 billion, everyone said, oh my God, I don't see how they can do it. You get to $2 billion. And -- so we are confident we are going to keep increasing our margins.

And I think they've probably said the same thing on 160 orders as I -- so thanks very much for that , and we will go to Robert Calabretta.

Yes, first question on the impact of agentic consumer applications on marketplaces. If you look at these agentic applications, people are using it for more and more tasks. In the case of process, I think you saw the first impact at stack overflow where people found coding suggestions of agentic applications better than browsing on the forum. But increasingly, it could be the case that purchasing decisions could also move towards these consumer-aggentic applications like ChatGPT. So I'm wondering, how do you plan to integrate your marketplaces inside of these applications and as user behavior shifts towards consumer agentic applications, yes, could some of marketplaces like Classifieds lose distribution leverage and the data advantage.

So how will you address this to stay ahead? Yes. Maybe a second question on the IRRs. I think in the past, you targeted a 20% IRR target with a higher hurdle for start-ups and lower for high-quality, more mature businesses. If I look at, for example, La Centrale, which you're buying for around EUR 1 billion, clearly a high-quality business. it's growing at a CAGR of 13% EBITDA, and you expect that market growth to continue. So I think it's challenging maybe to get the 20% IRR. So I'm wondering what is kind of your lower hurdle in terms of larger investments in terms of IRR. So what is your minimum hurdle to make these deals?

I'll try to quickly just because of the time. But on the first one, what you just asked, life agents are going to compete against us, Yes. I told you in the beginning, I want to talk 1 hour about our strategy there. It's exactly about that. So what we are going to tell you soon is we are doing large commerce model. We are doing agents focusing our internal and partners, and we are doing life agents -- sorry, life assistance where we deliver this kind of service to our customers. And I think we will be very well positioned because of our ecosystem and how to offer there better than any other player outside.

So I could talk about that for 1 hour, but I need you to read a little more. But I agree with you, Robert, it's a risk. Yes, it's an opportunity, too. We are moving fast to lead on that, including on many investments we made exactly on this area. So we are bullish and excited about what we can do in what we call life assistance. Next chapter to know more about that. The second is on IRR. We expect, yes, 20% IRR on La Centrale. Remember, La Centrale is a small company operating more isolated. We think that putting it together with everything we are doing outside, we are going to get good levels of growth, increasing profitability, and we expect it to get more than 20% La Centrale.

Great. Thanks. And it looks like will you're back in the line, you want to [indiscernible] I was very stressed.

If you have more time and get back to Rogelio. Will, are you there?

Sorry, I was. Just wanted to come back. So thank you for your comments earlier, very useful. So it's pretty clear the $6 billion to $7 billion is the right kind of framing for the FY '26 buyback. When we think about FY '27 and beyond, is that the kind of level we should be thinking? Or is it just you're going to have optionality and decide depending on the relative appeal of different uses of capital?

Companies, they do a buyback very specific. I'm going to buy back $5 billion. We are doing an open buyback. So we are not exactly not saying this is the number for the next 1, 2, 3 years. So we don't have any number for next year. But as I told you before, what I don't like is to have an automatic thing. We have to analyze what we have opportunities, what we have, what's happening in the world. I'll give you one thing to think. I think [indiscernible] is ridiculous ship. But again, oh my God, we can have a company that's creating $1.5 billion close to that in profit and still have a discount. The world is not like that today.

We have many companies valued at 100x revenues. having our cash position, maybe the world is going to change. That's my point. There's a lot of change ahead. I think Prosus is very well positioned. If the world change, we are going to become even a more attractive company because we are doing innovation, AI, we are generating cash and we have investment capacity. So for sure, since I have an open buyback, I don't need to think how it's going to work next year, 1 year in advance. I have to keep playing well with discipline, with good capital allocation. That's what you asked me 1 year ago.

What I'm telling you now, 1 year after, we delivered the discipline. One year after, selling less Tencent and more other companies is good capital allocation because we believe much more in the growth of Tencent. But what I commit to you is we are going to keep executing well, but we don't have a guidance for next year yet. We don't have it. So in 6 months, maybe we can share it more. Again, I'm confident we are going to keep executing well what we have in terms of innovation delivery to me. I think next year is much more a year of opportunity for us than a year of, oh my God, how we are going to handle not delivering what we promise.

Okay. Thank you. Will 4 minutes left. So let's Thanks, Will. We'll try to get 2 in Nadim from SBG.

Just 2 very quick ones from me. So we noticed that the likes of Rightmove and others are investing at quite a high rate in AI. This has the impact of weighing down on their profitability. I'd just like to understand how process have done it so that you have -- because we haven't really seen that impact on profitability with these substantial investments in AI and LCM. And then just on top of that, just how much of a differentiator is it when you're looking to acquire a business like La Centrale, the ability to bring these capabilities to the acquisition post deal?

So the first question was how has OLX been able to do so well and expand margins meaningfully while investing in AI, whereas other companies, I won't repeat their name, have now had to kind of reset expectations because they're investing. And it's been a long journey of OLX investing in AI.

Yes. So I think it all started 1 year ago on culture, focusing results, innovating more. I think OLX is really delivering and operating well, but also it has the support of an ecosystem. So many of the things OLX is setting up right now, they are also learning and sharing from inside the ecosystem. Large commerce model, for example, the investment was in the holding and iPhone. And now that it is ready, we are pushing it through [indiscernible]. So I think -- look, that's the central story or thesis of Prosus.

We can have one classified company operating in La Centrale region by itself or -- and that's my thesis together a bigger group that knows to operate classified and AI, we can make their performance better. The first big company we are operating at is Despegar. The number of Despegar doesn't look that big because April, May and June were bad were bad. I look to Despegar month by month, it is increasing every month for 6 months. So that's the difference. OLX benefits from that. And I think I'm quite sure is going to benefit from that too.

So the overall benefit of being part of the group. Nadim, thanks very much. We have to move to the last question. I think we're going to land this. Maddy take us home, please.

Yes. Just 2 quick ones from my side. The -- your recent positive trip to India and the meeting with the Prime Minister Modi, would you say your CMD ambitions for India were too conservative in hindsight, I mean, with just about 1.3x revenues from FY '25 to FY '28 and just above 5% margins, that's what your CMD guidance was. So wondering whether that changes at all post the meeting with the Prime Minister. And then the second one, on the asset monetization opportunities outside of Tencent and [indiscernible], is there any major opportunities you can talk about?

So first, it was inspiring Prime Minister was really expiring -- but then you said many numbers, 13, 14, 15. I didn't connect those numbers super well. for you.

Yes. So look, I think the numbers you is referring to related to essentially the long-term ambition that we shared at the CMD for India. But essentially, at that point, those are the control businesses at this stage in India. And obviously, we -- the ecosystem around that is much bigger. So it really depends how the control positions evolve over the next few years. So it could be substantially different depending on how we [indiscernible].

Yes, makes total sense. That's why we didn't recognize the number because we are looking just to pay you. Our expectations are bigger than that. But that's the way it is. We have report on that. after talking with Prime Minister, if something changes. I'll tell you, yes, I'll tell you one thing. We did all the -- we moved faster in innovation within Brazil and Europe. That's the true thing that we're really running on AI. I think we are this big thinking. India has to lead. India cannot be one day behind Brazil and Europe. So expect more moves from us, making sure we have the best AI possible in India. Then another question?

I forgot the other question. We've got 2 billion for this financial year. There are other assets that we can consider, but we're not going to sort of preannounce any at this stage.

Yes. There is some recommendation. We don't say we are selling this company. We probably can understand why. But our portfolio is much more than. So there is many others. Some of the others we talked about it here today, but there is many others, other 5 or 10, and there's many more billions we could sell, but we're not going to say exactly what. I can guarantee you this year, we sell $2 billion, probably in the next 6 months, we are going to announce how many billions we are going to sell the next year, at least a few more billions.

All right. Well, thank you for that, Maddy, and thank you very much, everybody, for joining us. there are a couple of words you want to leave us with?

Do you want to say a few final words? I have to say -- so a few final words. Today, the focus on numbers. And I'm happy. I think we are moving on the right direction on numbers. We will get to a few billion dollars in profit. There's much more to talk on execution of Jet, not for today and much more to talk on innovation, specifically the question that someone asked me today, I will talk exactly about that. So I am always unsure that we should be doing more and moving faster. I think we are moving well.

Just getting started, but our thesis year ago is we are going to be a strong tech-focused operating company. We are going -- we are getting there. So I'm excited with the results. I hope you enjoy them too. And I hope we're going to keep sharing good news with you in the future. Thanks for coming, and thanks for being partners. Let's keep building the future together. Thank you.

Thank you very much, everyone. Thank you, guys. And there are a couple of questions here that I will follow up. And always, if you have follow-ups, please reach out directly to your friendly IR team, and we will see you very soon. Thank you very much. Bye-bye.

Good afternoon, everybody. Joining us today in person and virtually are our valued Board members from Brazil, India, China, Europe, South Africa, U.S. and the U.K. We welcome to the venue, Craig Enenstein, Steve Pacak, Roberto Oliveira de Lima, Shar Dubey, Ying Xu, Rachel Jafta, Debra Meyer, Angelien Kemna and Mark Sorour. Hendrik du Toit and Manisha Girotra are joining virtually.

Ladies and gentlemen, folks, my lame is Koos Bekker. I'm the Chair of the Board of Prosus. On the executive side, we have next to me Fabricio Bloisi, our CEO; and Nico Marais, our CFO, over there and then to keep the good order, David Tudor, our Legal Counsel; and Lynelle Bagwandeen, our company's Secretary, next to me. And join us [indiscernible] A&O Shearman in the Netherlands. She's in attendance. We also want to welcome Ingrid Buitendijk of Deloitte Netherlands.

Now for efficiency, we've prepared some prerecorded videos to cover opening remarks by a few people, especially the chairs of our key Board committees. Then Nico and Ingrid will also make personal comments. And then Fabricio will present to you here in person briefly on operational matters. So if you allow me, I'll declare that the meeting is properly constituted and that we may adopt valid resolutions today. At this point, I'll hand over to Lynelle who will explain how the voting process and especially the Q&A session works.

Thank you, Koos. Shareholders virtually present and who have registered to vote and are in receipt of the required link and security passwords may vote online during this meeting on all agenda items. Shareholders attending in person received voting details at the registration desk. You can use your smartphone, tablet or computer. Attendees are reminded that only shareholders, both virtual and in person may ask questions in the meeting today. You may, however, submit your questions any time from now until the Q&A session begins. The introductory statements referred to by our Chair will now be played.

Shareholders, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for being here. Some brief observations. There are 2 big trends affecting all of us now. The first is artificial intelligence is transforming our own lives. But who the eventual winners and losers will be still unclear. If you want to guess at what point we are in this game, you may well compare it to the life cycle of the commercial Internet. So I think 3 years after the big bang, 1998. Then Amazon was still puny and none of Facebook Alphabet or Tencent existed. Today, the AI race has barely started. We have a few horses running, Tencent and our e-commerce ecosystems. You'll hear more later today to help you judge whether to back the [ odds ]. The second trend is a new sort of balkanization of the world. You may still remember Gwyneth Paltrow using the term conscious uncoupling.

Now it's pretty unclear to what extent our rather intertwined world can be uncoupled or how all these present threats will really play out. But we fancy the countries where we operate, and we'll stick with them through thick and thin. Looking at our own business, in Fabricio Bloisi, our new CEO, I believe we have an excellent leader. He is shaping the group with a sense of urgency. Vasileios Sgourdos, our previous CFO, retired after long and loyal service, Nico Marais stepping into that role. Pending your approval, Nico and Phuthi Mahanyele-Dabengwa, the South Africa CEO of Naspers, will join our Board. We take leave today of Cobus Stofberg as a Director. He is a true founding leader of this group.

Now you'll notice that we are becoming less of an investor into a wide range of assets, more of an operating company. We are constructing great e-commerce ecosystems in Europe, in Latin America, India and South Africa. Now of course, one of our aims is to make money that we constantly remind ourselves of what Henry Ford is credited with saying. He said wealth, like happiness. You seldom attained when sought after directly. It comes as a byproduct of providing a useful service. So you may ask, why do Prosus and ask question if is this useful? Well, we simplify or enrich the lives of our customers through food delivery, e-commerce and payments.

And as a consequence of this drive, our financial profile is changing. In the past, we grew, but we made losses. Now we grow and we make profits. $1.6 billion of revenues yield hard cash flow, hopefully, more of it next year. So we are recommending to you that the group double our dividend, firstly, because we can afford it; secondly, because we think we can sustain it. I want to thank our Board members here for your sensible advice over the past year and our staff for making dramatic things happen.

Now over to Debra Meyer to outline what we're doing sustainably.

Ladies and gentlemen and all shareholders, thank you for joining us today as we reflect on our sustainability journey over the past year and look forward to the road ahead. This year marked a significant milestone with the publishing of our first CSRD-compliant sustainability statements with limited assurance. While we recognize the importance of the Corporate Sustainability Reporting directive, and believe in the fundamental drivers behind it, namely relevant, comparable and reliable reporting of nonfinancial performance, we also very much welcome the European Commission's Omnibus proposal. This is a step in the right direction by simplifying reporting requirements so we can leverage the same resources for putting words into real action.

At our core, we remain driven by something greater. Our belief in the power of innovation and technology to deliver a lasting and positive impact on society and the planet. We create and thrive in change. Our strategy is rooted in responsible investing, rigorous governance and a maturing sustainability framework that is embedded across our global ecosystem. Our regional ecosystem approach in markets like India, Latin America and Europe enables us to share best practices and accelerate innovation for sustainable transitions across platforms.

On climate action, Zero emission deliveries is a key focus area with a substantial portion of Scope 3 emissions arising from delivery operations electrifying our fleet isn't just a strategic priority, it's an opportunity to lead transformative change. The benefits of transitioning to electric vehicles for e-commerce deliveries are both environmental and financial. From an environmental perspective, this shift promises leaner air and healthier cities. With the fluctuating cost of petrol, drivers who adopt electric vehicles could see an increase in their earning potential, while the cost of ownership of the vehicles can also be significantly lower than combustion vehicles. Yet such progress is not achieved alone. The challenges we face require collective action and connected strategies.

Together with partners, visionaries and innovators, we are committed to reimagining delivery operations. On the people side, driver welfare and safety remain paramount. Across our group companies, platform worker earnings consistently exceed minimum wage. And we've expanded safety training, insurance coverage and AI-powered routing tools to improve delivery safety and efficiency. At the Board level, oversight of sustainability and climate strategy is firmly embedded, led by me as Chair of the Sustainability Committee. We receive regular updates on progress and our executive team is directly accountable with 20% of the CEO and CFO short-term incentives tied to ESG and climate related goals.

For the year ahead, for the first time, we have a target on social impact. While we build our dream of becoming the #1 lifestyle e-commerce company, we want to build this for and with the people in our ecosystem. By enabling access to learning and education, we seek to unlock the potential of an AI-first digital future for underserved communities. This is our story our mission and our commitment to shaping a better tomorrow. I welcome your engagement and feedback. Thank you.

It's great to be here today. Thank you for investing in Prosus and for the opportunity to share our financial progress for the year ended 31 March 2025. This year was a game changer. We proved we can keep growing sustainably by investing smartly in tech and innovation, all while staying transparent and delivering more value to you, our shareholders.

Here's the big picture. Group revenue went up 21% to USD 6.2 billion, double the growth rate of our peers. Classifieds and Food Delivery led the charge. Let me break down the numbers. Food Delivery, iFood performed exceptionally with 29% jump in orders and 50% revenue growth to USD 1.3 billion. Adjusted EBIT came in at USD 226 million. Likewise, our classifieds unit, OLX, saw an 18% revenue boost to USD 777 million with adjusted EBIT soaring 63% and margins improving to 35%. Our Payments and Fintech businesses made progress on revenue as well as margins, though PayU India posted a trading loss. Fixing that profitability is a key priority. For Etail, eMAG posted adjusted EBIT of USD 14 million with Romania driving strong performance.

On our bottom line, core headline earnings came in at USD 7.4 billion, up 59% on a per share basis. This was thanks to stronger profits across the e-commerce portfolio as well as from our equity accounted investments like Tencent and higher interest income. We ended the year with a solid USD 2.6 billion net cash position, USD 19 billion in cash, offset by USD 16.4 billion in debt. Overall free cash flow topped USD 1 billion for the first time, a huge leap from the USD 422 million last year. High food OLX and better working capital management allowed us to achieve this major milestone with USD 36 million positive free cash flow if we exclude the $0.10 dividend at Prosus level. This is almost $1 billion improvement over the last 3 years. The $0.10 dividend was meaningful at more than $1 billion. These strong results allowed us to propose a 100% increase in the Prosus dividend per share to $0.20.

Our strong balance sheet gives us a muscle to pursue opportunities that drive sustainable growth and returns. We've invested boldly in the last year, USD 7.8 billion spent and committed, but we remain disciplined, especially in today's environment. With regard to capital returns to shareholders, we should not forget the open-ended share repurchase program. Since launch in mid-2022, it's been a big value creator, boosting net asset value per share by 11%, cutting the share count by over 27% and unlocking more than $35 billion for shareholders. Thank you for your trust and support.

My name is Ingrid Buitendijk, partner at Deloitte and responsible for the audit of Prosus. I'm pleased to present to you the results of our audit of the 2025 financial statements. On June 21, we issued our unqualified auditor's report on the 2025 financial statements as included on Pages 212 to 219 of the annual report. We have obtained reasonable assurance that the financial statements taken as a whole are free from material misstatements. In our report, we discussed various aspects of our audit, including the application of materiality, our scoping and key audit matters. You've been able to read our report. I will now provide you with a summary of the main elements of our audit.

Materiality drives the nature, timing and extent of our audit procedures. We determined our materiality as a percentage of net assets, which is a generally accepted benchmark and reflects focus on long-term value creation of the investments. As for the scope of our audit, we have performed an audit of the financial information of 8 components and certain selected procedures at 4 components. We issued instructions to our component teams. We have performed a number of physical visits to the local teams and local management. In addition, we held calls and video meetings with our component teams throughout the year and reviewed selected work papers of the work performed by the component teams.

I will now cover our key audit matters. Key audit matters are those matters that in our professional judgment were of most significance in the audit of the financial statements. Our key audit matters involve complex accounting, significant estimates and management judgments and our procedures were designed to test these for bias and error using specialists and third-party information. In this year's audit, we identified 3 key audit matters. Our first key audit matter covers the accounting for the equity accounted investment in Tencent. Our second key audit matter covered the valuation of goodwill, investments in associates and investments in subsidiaries. The third key audit matter addressed the significance of share-based compensation schemes and valuation of share-based payments. The key audit matters are covered in detail in our auditor's report. Other matters reported on in our auditor's report relate to our approach to going concern, our approach to compliance with laws and regulations as well as our approach to fraud risks, which are all covered in detail in our report. We did not identify specific indications of fraud or suspected fraud.

Finally, in addition to the core audit teams at group and component level, we involve specialists and experts in the areas of valuations, remuneration, tax, IT, forensic and accounting. Throughout the year, my team and I met with a wide range of people within Prosus, including members of the Board. We have had robust discussions at all levels of management and with the Audit Committee. There was active engagement and our insights are respected and taken seriously. Next to the issuance of the auditor's report, we also issued our unqualified limited assurance report with the CSRD report for the first time. This concludes my comments.

Ladies and gentlemen, good morning, and thank you for joining us at our Annual General Meeting. Reflecting on fiscal '25 and looking ahead to fiscal '26, I'm inspired by the professionalism and dedication of our shareholder community. You are more than stakeholders. You are our partners in pursuing growth, resilience and innovation.

Today, I'll highlight the key advancements we've made, particularly in executive remuneration, ensuring leadership incentives drive long-term value. To accelerate growth and boost returns, we have materially refined our remuneration structure over the past year and for the time ahead.

At its core, we have now included a high-risk, high-return incentive, the moonshot award. For the CEO, it's a $100 million incentive triggered by meeting 2 exceptionally difficult goalposts. Firstly, by doubling market capitalization; and secondly, by exceeding median performance against an exceptionally competitive set of peers. It's a bold reflection of our pay-for-performance philosophy, rewarding outcomes, not just ambitions. We are clear that events such as acquisitions, asset sales and other structural actions will adjust the measurement to ensure true value is being created for you in the measurement. Further, we have expressly stated that the program is designed such that the share buyback remains a positive behavioral incentive for the company, and there is no conflict with this incentive.

The moonshot award has also been extended to the CEO's direct reports and other senior team members while reducing the issuance of incentives under other existing LTI plans, the aspiration to emphasize an even more risk-based and shareholder-aligned approach to remuneration. In response to shareholder feedback, performance share units or PSUs tied to shareholder returns, including Tencent's performance as opposed to e-commerce compound annual growth were introduced into the policy and are awarded to the CEO and CFO. Value creation extends beyond financial results. Therefore, 10% of executives' short-term incentives in fiscal '26 will link directly to ESG metrics, including employee engagement and community impact. This reflects our shareholders' expectations and commitment to a broader societal mandate.

Our pay-for-performance philosophy remains key. In fiscal '26, 99% of the CEO's pay will be at-risk pay, principally tied to ambitious, measurable goals, ensuring executive awards align closely with your returns. We listen carefully to your feedback, particularly about long-term incentives and reducing the NAV discount. We've implemented stronger transparency, detailed performance metrics and enhanced communications to reflect these priorities. Despite various management efforts, including our open-ended share buyback program in fiscal '25, the NAV discount gap widened as of March 31 of this year. To ensure management's focus on the discount reduction and in line with shareholder feedback, 10% of the CEOs and 15% of the CFO's short-term incentives for fiscal '26 tied to progress on this front, highlighting our commitment to reducing the gap and delivering shareholder value.

In our remuneration policy, which will be put to you, our shareholders, later today, as committed when we spoke last year, we have reintroduced the requirement for the CEO to hold a material number of Naspers and Prosus shares of at least 4 to 6x as annual salary. The purpose is to foster longer-term alignment to shareholders. I am pleased to report that the CEO's ownership already exceeds this requirement. Some core themes in the remuneration strategy are: strategic alignment with shareholder value creation, a well-balanced LTI package promotes our aim to double market cap and per share value creation and delivers strong returns relative to the industry. Transparency and engagement. Your feedback shapes policies, performance goals and dialogue, your perspective had absolute impact on policy and implementation.

Sustainability focus, ESG-linked pay demonstrates commitment to governance and talent attraction. These pillars and others reflect our shared belief. We recognize our success depends on yours. With fiscal '26 ahead, I'm confident these enhancements position us to tackle challenges, seize opportunities and create lasting value for shareholders. Thank you for your trust, insights and commitment to our vision. Together, let's make exceptional performance our legacy. Thank you.

Craig, that's appreciated. Thanks a lot. Now we ask you Fabricio to look at the operations and give us a quick update.

Good afternoon, everyone. Hello. Good afternoon. They are there. Very good to be here with you. I am Fabricio. I'm not the new CEO. I am Fabric, the CEO. One year after, there is no new anymore. Last year, I just arrived when I came here to talk to you. So I was still trying to understand how everything work. Now I'm here for 1 year. So everything is my fault. I'm going to talk to you many things. Hope you enjoy a feel. Hope you have ideas of how to make it better. That's why we are here to improve every day. So I'm very happy to be here with you. That's our quick agenda. Koos told me that sometimes I talk too much. So I have to try to talk in 20 to 25 minutes. It's not working. That's -- Prosus is working. The only thing not working are the slides. It's a good problem to have. So next slide, please. Good.

So I'll start talking our agenda for today, that's it. Good. I started briefly on who we are, myself and Prosus. I will tell on the beginning of the first 8, 10 minutes, a little bit about what -- a few things that we already told over the last 2, 3 months, what we are doing, what our objectives, what are our priorities. When I came here, I just want to make a remark. First, we have here many shareholders, stakeholders. We have here employees. We have here our Board. Welcome, Board to have you all here. And you have also this time more than -- close to 3,000 people online. So hello, everyone online. Good to see you around. I hope you enjoy our presentation today. So I'm going to talk a little about telling you what we are doing, what are our priorities, who is Prosus, what we are building. Some of this information, I already told over the last 3 months. That's the first part on building the ecosystem and building through innovation. But then I'm going to spend at least 10 minutes or 15 minutes talking about what's not public yet.

So we are in August, what happened in April, May, June and July. Over the last year, I tried to give you much more transparency. What we are doing, what's working, what's not working. So I'm going to share 7 or 8 highlights over the last 4 months. I hope you appreciate. Hope the online people appreciate, and we are here for -- to answer any questions after that. So let's go. That's our agenda for today. It's even working here. Great. So about me, I'm Fabricio. I'm not the new CEO. I'm the old CEO in charge of all the problems. So I'm here to talk about that. But also there is a few good things. Even my friend there, he decided he's happier this year. Look forward to your question this year. I remember the question last year. So look forward to listening to you.

I'm from Brazil. I started computer science then management in Brazil and U.S. I founded a company called Movile. I grow iFood from 20 people to more or less 7,000, 8,000 people. Prosus was my investor for 15 years. And now I'm the old CEO of Prosus for the last 1 year. Very excited, very happy where I am. I think the opportunity is amazing. And the opportunities -- I'm a tech entrepreneur, so I'm optimistic. I like to build to innovate, to do more things. And I think Prosus is an amazing place to do that. Prosus story -- we had so many transformations from a press -- a print company 100 years ago in South Africa that's transformed to print, pay TV, mobile networks, social networks.

Today, we are a commerce company focused in AI. But the amazing thing of leading this company is that we are open to create the future and create the future outside U.S. Latin America needs that. India needs that. Europe needs to have big technology companies here. So I think we have an amazing asset, and I'm very excited. Today, we are a $136 billion company. I think last year, I don't remember the number, but it was around $80 billion or $90 billion. So something good is happening. But we are just getting started. We have so much ahead in terms of innovation, developing the regions, impact, creation of value to shareholders. I'm going to share our next steps with you. So let's go a little faster.

During this 1 year, a lot of my time and effort and energy was on culture. To be a leading tech culture, we should be talking about innovation, about investing in people, investing in development of the people, investing about creating the future. We did a strong transformation have here our VP of People, [indiscernible]. Thank you very much for working so hard this year, and we have our amazing [ AGR ] team, our people team. We reinforced our values of being an entrepreneurial company, not only do the budget or do what's written there is to create a better future. And we have today many owners really passionate about that, about being focusing results, talking a lot without delivering results, no one cares about that. But at the same time, being ambidextrous to innovate a lot to focus on people, the only thing that matter in a technology company, and to deliver real impact to the communities where we operate. We talk a lot about that. We did that through events and retails that put everyone together.

We have more than 30,000 people, and we made hundreds of events like that one in Stanford for the leaders or other 50 -- more than 30 events just like that or the Prosus Way or the Prosus Way award. So for me, having a culture of a tech company is the core of everything. Many times I meet banks or investors and they say, I really care about the numbers. The numbers is a result of our people, and we have to invest in our culture to have the people really believing in what we are building. Besides us working a lot on our culture, we redefine who is Prosus. We are not saying we are investing in any company around the world, any participation, but we have a focus to build the #1 lifestyle e-commerce company in Europe, India and Latin America. So we have a clear focus now, these 3 ecosystems, and we are going to do that unlocking an AI-first world. So AI is a big part about what we are doing. I believe we are one of the best players in AI.

I believe we are the best player in AI in Latin America, Europe and India, and this is very important for these 3 regions. I'm going to talk more about that today. But as I said, now we have a focus. Most of you know our origins are in South Africa. That's where Prosus started. Most of our growth came from a big investor that we are very proud on China. But now we have a focus, and the focus is Latin America, where we have an amazing ecosystem iFood, iFood Pago, OLX, Despegar and Sympla, so food, fintech, commerce and experience. We are building as exciting as Latin America one in India, where we have PayU that we own, but many amazing -- some of -- most of the best Indian companies are invested by Prosus. For example, Meesho or Swiggy or Rapido besides PayU, an urban company.

And we started to do that here in Europe. I'm very proud that we made our offer to buy Just Eat Takeaway. I'm going to talk a little about that. I'm very happy because this is based here in Amsterdam. And my intention is to make Amsterdam strong place where we develop technology innovation in Europe and the Just Eat Takeaway acquisition is very important to get there. But we are just getting started. I expected to invest many, many more billions of dollars to make the technology company in Europe much more -- much bigger, much more impactful to Europe. And I think Europe needs that. It's an opportunity. It's also a responsibility that Prosus can do. So that's the focus of Prosus, but we can only get there if we are a very innovative company, and we are in the front. We are really developing the most sophisticated kind of applied AI that happens in the world right now.

What we are doing is using trillions of data of all our transactions to train, to fine-tune large language models to predict better what users demand. We are very happy on the position we are here. I think the technology we have here in Amsterdam and also in Latin America and Brazil is top in the world in terms of AI for e-commerce. I'm going to talk a little more about AI progress today, but we are very proud that we are not here to see what the American companies are doing. We are here to create here in Europe, a lead AI center. Moving on a little. I finished our Capital Markets Day saying that many shareholders, maybe a few of you here said -- used to say, no, Prosus is $0.10 minus their cost because they're not generating value. I told you on the Capital Markets Day we did, I think, 2 months ago only that my absolutely goal is to change that to not Tencent minus, but Prosus plus Tencent. We should be valued by what we do in Prosus, the growth we have in Prosus, the technology we generate in Prosus and the profitability generated in Prosus. And we still have $150 billion in Tencent. That's the Prosus deal that I'm working for you.

I think we had a good year in this direction. Our Tencent dividends increased by 24%, what is good. People used to say, yes, but then you use that for yourself. Actually, we expected to create at least 83% in our growth in our EBITDA this year. 83% is the projection of our CFO. My number is much bigger. So I really expect to overdeliver on that. I'm not talking more about that. Otherwise, my Board are going to say, don't talk all these big numbers today. But we will over deliver that. We will grow a lot our own EBITDA and our corporate cost has to be under control. Someone here last year said, you're a big company just using this Tencent. No. We are here to create our own -- sorry, to create our own value and to pay for that and to profit for that and distribute dividends from our own value or to invest on our own value creation.

So I think we have a lot of growth ahead in our Prosus plus Tencent vision, and I think we started to deliver. I know you are going to believe me just after 2, 3 or 4 years delivering consistently, but we have 2 nice half years, and there will be many more ahead. A few of these slides I shared with you, our shareholders over the last 3 or 4 months. I really like to keep communicating what's happening. So we are just getting started. I want to share with you what we haven't shared yet. What happened in April, May and June and July. So let me share you a few things of the last 4 months. We are just getting started. First, we are on budget. Actually, we are a little better than the budget. So our revenue is more or less in line of our revenue target, as you can see there, around 15% growth and $1.7 billion in revenue. But our EBITDA is around 14%, 15% ahead of the plan, what put us much closer to the top of the guidance I gave. And that's my goal, the top of the guidance. We started well. We are confident that we are going to keep increasing this number and growing not only inside the guidance, but going to the top of the guidance.

I have other very interesting news to share with you. When I announced in February that we are going to propose the acquisition of just Eat Takeaway, most of the people gave -- some people said, congratulations. Many people said, "Oh my God, this is going to take 2 or 3 years. It's going to be a nightmare. You know why invest in Europe." I completely disagree. I think we have this responsibility to invest in Europe, and we will have a big impact. But the bigger risk, and I said that in at least 1 or twice event with shareholders was we didn't know how much time it will take to approve this deal. It could take like 1 or 2 years, and it scared me a lot because we are now in a competitive world. Our competitors are moving faster, investing more, wait 2 years for something. That was a nightmare to me. We have very good news. We got approval from [ these ] company, European Commission in 5.5 months. I know sometimes some of the shareholders, not you here, but you there in the online, sometimes investors are a little pessimist. The one here are super optimist, but everyone said it's going to take 1 to 2 years, 5.5 months even for the pessimist shareholder. I hope you are happy. We are moving faster. That's what we have to do, move faster and deliver results. So I'm quite happy with that.

I'm looking to the clock to avoid me talking 1 hour. I used to talk a lot. But look to that. This is not a new guidance. Otherwise, we have to communicate it to the whole world right now. But this is our -- the previous guidance I gave you 2 months ago, adding the existing Just Eat Takeaway guidance and look to that, maybe we are going to be a $9.5 billion company this fiscal year. Maybe I believe we can be $1.3 billion, $1.4 billion, some optimistic people think even more one day, $1 billion EBITDA company this year. And even if you are a pessimistic shareholder, I want to remind you, 18 months ago, you were complaining a lot with my Board members, Board partners here. This company should be profitable. It's losing money. This is bad. 12, 18 months later, we are preparing to have close to $1.5 billion and the expectation you saw in my other Capital Markets Day is to triple the number of fiscal year 2025. So we are just getting started. I think it's a good start.

I have a few more things to share with you. First, I talk about innovation, AI, funny things about the future, but we cannot deliver any of that if we do not have a lot of discipline. I'm a founder of a start-up for 20 years. Many times, we have to take tough decisions, reduce costs, reduce people, change plans, cut on projects. We keep the level of discipline in Prosus quite high. So we optimized our portfolio. So we sold and get cash for almost $800 million just in the last 4 months. And we -- I announced the number for the last year, I think, in April or May. So just in the last 4 months, $800 million. My intention is to do that with $2 billion. Why? Because investing is easy, divest and say this is not working, take the hard decision or say, this is not getting where I want to invest in better things is what a company has to do to keep the discipline, and our bar on discipline keeps going up.

The big topic for us last year was highlight value. And we said -- I think I said that in the August of -- at [ Maximum ] December, our priority is India. So we are happy and proud that we made the Swiggy IPO. I want to remind you, we invested in Swiggy when it was a very small company. Now it's a $10 billion company more or less. But we had yesterday another IPO in India of a company called Bluestone that Prosus is an investor. It's more or less $1 billion IPO in total. We are a small shareholder, but we are very happy because the second IPO in a few months. And I told you a few times, I expected 5 IPOs in India. We expect more 3 IPOs in the next 12 months or less, highlighting the value of our very good Indian portfolio, where we are investors of many of the best companies in India.

The lawyers is asking me to do not talk about the future IPOs by name because the regulation there is very strict on that. But we are very optimistic that we have more 3 great IPOs over the next month. Moving on besides discipline, we always talk well about Tencent, about how proud we are that we invested one of the best companies in the world, about we think that there is very few great global tech players, most of them in California. We are a big shareholder, a very big shareholder of a Chinese one and they just delivered their results. I know it sounds good, $25 billion in revenue. It's good, I'm sure. Even the pessimistic shareholder there, he says, yes, $25 billion is good. And $8 billion in operating profit. But actually, that's not the best news.

The best news is what's written here. The consensus for Tencent was 11% growth in revenue and they grow 15%. The consensus for Tencent was a 15% growth in profit and they grow 22%. I want to say that because many times, people say, but you still believe in Tencent. Yes, we still believe in Tencent. It's going to keep growing. It's going to generate good returns for us, shareholders. And we are quite happy with the results announced, I think, last week or in the last 5 days. A few more quick news. I talked the last time we met about large commerce model, how we are training AI to predict customer behavior. I'm not going to show the numbers of that today. I could, but I'm going to show another thing that was very important in the last 3 or 4 months. In the last 3 or 4 months, most people in AI are talking about agents and how agents are enable productivity, very high productivity growth. So this is an internal number of Prosus. We had around -- we started to do agents working -- helping people to work faster in December with our own system called Toqan. It was around like 500 agents. In the last 2 or 3 months, it grew from around 1,300 to close to 3,000 agents.

And more than that, look to this green. We say here, considered AI employee. It was 500 in February or March. Now it's around 1,600. What means that we have around 1,600 people doing the job faster for other real people. I'll give you a few examples. Sometimes it's difficult to see what I'm talking about. When we started talking about AI 1 year ago, we said AI expands the people's work. So for example, you have your assistance called Toqan in our case, and we write to them. Please summarize that, please do that. He write a very nice material, and we use that to move faster, just like your ChatGPT probably does. What happened in the last few months are agents that they keep working 24 hours, checking what's happening and they autonomously get the data, process the data, create a report, send to the restaurant, to the partner, to the driver, and you have humans just supervising it.

I'll give you one example. We have, for example, in iFood, 500 people doing customer -- restaurant assistance. These 500 people spend around 20% of the time, so 100 people just preparing the reports. Usually, they take from 1, 2 or 3 different systems, sending that to the restaurants and answering questions to make the restaurants sell more. Now we have agents that more or less value to 100 people doing all this process automatically. I have a few slides about that I had to cut because of the time, but it's amazing because the agents are saying, these are new restaurants. These are 10 different reports that are -- this is my analysis about these reports. These are the final reports. I'm sending to them. I'm answering questions to the restaurants and the people that is in the customers -- the restaurant support, they are looking to that and they can supervise our robots. This is growing like crazy in the last few months.

Prosus is at the front of this kind of R&D, the front of using Toqen, our own platform to enable much, much productivity, not only productivity, but treating people better. For example, in this case, we can only supply this kind of real-time information and consultancy to 45% of iFood restaurants. But now because we have that, we have 100% of the restaurants having full support of how they can operate better, work better, getting data and information every day. I think this is a competitive advantage for us.

I'd like to invite here one of our new employees. He's intern, so he's not very smart yet, but that's what we are working now. So Rob, our new employee, is being connected to Toqen right now, and we are spending our time to understand how we can teach Rob how to read all our information.

Hello, good morning, say hello to everyone, don't be unpolite. Yes, he's a new interne. He's a little like -- thank you very much. You are very kind, very polite. So it's very funny to have a robot, but what we are working with them really. I asked the team to put them to answer questions today. They said, come on, he is not ready yet, but it to you. So I can promise you in the next AGM, Rob will be there with me with absolutely all the data of Prosus, and he's going to answer that because he's integrated with Toqen. What we are -- everything good there, okay? So what we are working with them, how we cannot only teach an agent to work on a virtual word, but also interact with the real world, how we can use our own LLM, token, so you can ask things in the real world and they can support us. There is more people doing that. Yes, there's lots of people doing -- trying to do that. Prosus is pushing the boundaries on what we can do. So my promise is next time he'll be talking, he talks a little, but we decided that's too much risk for today. Next time, he will talk a lot with you. So say bye to them, go there. And if you want, you can pay a coffee for -- or he doesn't drink coffee, but you can talk to him later, but not on camera. So next time on camera, Rob will be here.

So my point here is the trend is -- I thought you -- have you been drinking, Rob? No drinking, no drinking duty hour. Our corporate shareholder presentations, I told him. Look, large language models, agents and agents going to the real world, we have to invest to push the boundaries at what we are doing, okay, almost over the time. Obviously, talking about robots is fun, but we have to understand how we talk about people. So impact is one of our values. And we tried this year to disclose more information about what we are doing, and we are committed to disclose even more information about what we are doing. I also defined a priority and the priority for us is technology to improve education. We have many, many projects, over 30 learning initiatives across all around the world, obviously, more India, South Africa, Brazil, but other 10 countries. We are starting now to have this information in a format that we can display everything we are doing all around the world.

A few data that I enjoy to share. We have more than 100,000 people impacted by our education initiatives. We think that's very high transformational impact, around 10,000 people on education through technology, what's start, good start. I love the way we are trying to put the work together to talk about impact on gig work. A few times this year, we put all companies, not only iFood or the companies that are related to Prosus, but all companies together to share how we treat employees, how is the wage dynamics, how is the driver safety dynamics, share the best practices and numbers. I really think this kind of event is amazing. So I'm very proud that Prosus is fostering that. And now we are giving one step more. We are working together with World Economic Forum to create -- we are one of the founding partners of the future of giga work to try to define a way to analyze the quality, compare and share best practices all around the world.

So I really expect you to share more how -- what we are doing here over the next year. And also not only education and giga work, but also electric fleet, where we have the #1 in South Africa. This is important for many reasons. You saw Debra talking about that. So that's our priorities. We have more focus now and expect more results where we have more focus. To finish, now I'm out of time and Koos started to say, come on, come on, you talk too much. To finish, our buyback is still going on. We bought back $40 billion in total, Prosus plus Naspers, more or less 30% of the outstanding shares. It was a very good business for the ones that haven't sold. If you sold, you can buy again. So go there now, buy a Prosus share. Can I do merchandising here? So we are going to have a lot of appreciation because of the buyback. I think it's a very success what we did.

To finish, I think this is the last one. Lots of hard work, lots of work from the Board, but most of that from the 30,000 people that do Prosus, changing culture, innovation, bottom line, making difficult decisions. I thank you for the positive response or the trust on that. Over the last 1 year, our share price was up around 60%, 59%. We enjoyed very much to make put on this chart NASDAQ. So NASDAQ had a 26% year, Prosus has a 59% year. I think it's a good start. Are we there? Obviously not. We still need to grow like a lot for 10 years, but it's a good start. So my suggestion, call your American friends and say, forget NASDAQ, Prosus, buy the European leader. That's the good thing to do. It's a good start. We also talked here last year about discounts. The discount reduced by 7% more or less. 2, 3 weeks ago, it was 28%. So it was even more. I think the trend is quite good. It created $13 billion.

Someone in this room, I'm not going to say who, but he said, look, 100% of the value is Tencent. It's not $13 billion. This is not Tencent. And more than that, we grow more than Tencent shares over the last year. That's what we intend to do. It's a start, much more ahead. So this data that you just saw is new. So I hope you enjoy to start this conversation with some news, and I hope we can answer all your questions. Thanks for coming, and let's go for the questions. Thank you.

Thank you, Fabricio. As Fabricio mentioned, we will now move on to the Q&A session. I have some information on the votes that may be cast today and details of which will now be displayed on the screen. Shareholders were able to raise questions ahead of the meeting and answers to these questions have been published on our website. If you are unable to ask a question during the meeting, please e-mail your questions to our Investor Relations team. You can use the address that appears on the screen now. And contact details are also available on our website.

We will deal with shareholders attending in person first and then those attending virtually. We invite you to raise your hand and once invited, please walk up to the microphone in the center of the room. We also request that you start by stating your name and the organization you represent. You are also welcome to ask your questions in Dutch. We will then move to questions from those attending virtually. For those shareholders attending virtually, please click the Q&A icon on your screen. Questions will be read one by one and allocated to the person best able to answer it. After this Q&A session, we will then proceed to voting. Shareholders attending physically, we now welcome you to ask your questions.

Good afternoon. My name is Peter [indiscernible]. I'm representing VBDO, that is the Association of Dutch Investors for Sustainable Development. So thank you for your nice presentations. My first -- I have 4 questions. So my first question is...

To make it more productive. You're very welcome to ask all 4. Ask one, we answer and then we get to the next, then we can give you a proper answer. Otherwise, it becomes a jumble.

We were happy with your reporting about the gender pay gap. So this year, you said the unadjusted pay gap is 26% and the adjusted pay gap between women and men is 40%. That is really good that you publish it. Our question is, is it possible to follow it year-on-year because you also stated that you want to improve it to diminish the pay gap between women and men. Can you also do that next year again?

You think we should pay women the same as men.

Well, you should adjust for a role, but you described that. So that's the point.

Peter, Debra Meyer is our in that department. So Debra, if you kindly get up here and ask and then you're very welcome to ask the other questions, too.

So thank you for the question. We also appreciate you acknowledging that the fact that we disclose the gender pay gap is a major step towards transparency. We cannot make such a disclosure without plans to decrease and eventually close the gap. So we have a number of initiatives in place to decrease the gap and then close it and we will be reporting annually on our progress.

Thank you. It's a nice answer.

So Peter can I strengthen you in your evil and put Debra under pressure. One of the biggest problems in tech is the gender imbalance at universities. So if you look at the U.S., typically about, let's say, 20% of the class of electronic engineering would be female the same in China and the same in Japan. And why that is still the case? I've never seen a plausible explanation. That's one of the biggest problems. They can fix it at the Board level. Our Board is, I think, quite good in terms of gender. You can fix it at several levels. But when you come to hard coding, engineering, you have this problem of what the universities kick out, which we haven't solved and no one has solved it.

Okay. That's I'm aware of that, but still, you have to do the adjusted -- reducing the pay gap. But thank you for your answer. Then the next question is about living wage. So you have told us about this initiative to work together in the World Economic Forum. That is really good. Can you make in next year's annual report, it's a bit more comprehensive for us as shareholders. What's your initiative entails and how you can proceed on that because, yes, the gig economy is hard to raise the standard of living, but you are working together in the right direction. And hopefully, we can have more insight with hard numbers, if possible, next year.

Debra, answer. Fabricio can add to that.

All right. Yes, we are definitely working towards it. And as you know, there's no clear guidelines on exactly how to report everything. So we are partnering with the World Economic Forum to develop a guideline as was mentioned by Fabricio that would allow all of us to benchmark but we do plan to keep on reporting our progress in that regard.

Okay. Thank you.

He is passionate about the topic.

Yes. I agree. We have to share more, and I completely agree with you.

Okay. Then I have a question on Food Delivery because you're taking over Just Eat. So you are, in fact, a real global player in Food Delivery. Yes, in your 2024 environmental impact publication, you had a nice report, on Page 11, where you state, for example, that is you decrease -- slightly decreased the plastic use in a delivery. This is a nice KPI. However, you have not published that in 2025 in your environmental report, unfortunately, because you are there more on a high level reporting just about single-use plastics, but not as precise as you did in 2024. So we appreciate your 2024 environmental publication. Could you then take that also to your annual report? This is just one pager because you report so nicely on CO2 and all that stuff. So I think this is also important for the annual report.

Yes, we can certainly do that. As you've acknowledged, it is in our environmental impact report, we will make sure we'll transfer to the annual report as well.

Rachel, you want to comment, that's your fault.

Sorry, thank you, Peter, for the question. The reason that we left it out of the annual report this year is because within the materiality piece, we were not -- we wanted to make sure everything that we presented within CSRD was material, the topics -- we would have standardized definitions across Takealot, iFood, eMAG, all of them. And therefore, that was the challenge. You will definitely see an improvement, appreciate your feedback.

Okay. Thank you. And then my final question, is about -- yes, you said science-based targets on CO2 reduction and new state on Page 98, that you have a target for portfolio companies where you invest in for 50%. That is perhaps a good target. But the point is can you also show then in the next annual report where you are at the current moment?

Yes, we can certainly do that. I think we set the target about 2 years ago, we are already at 24%. So we can certainly give you incremental...

Annually you can give that number as well.

Yes.

[indiscernible] questions, folks. Welcome.

Good afternoon. My name is Errol Keyner. I speak on behalf of European Investors/VEB. I'm glad to be here for the second year in a row. And as Mr. Bloisi said, he challenged me last year. I dare you to come back with the same negative questions, so I'm back here.

Negative and positive, I said.

Last year, I came here challenging you actually with the suggestion why just not sitting on your Tencent shares and not do anything else, stop having all those headquarter people and all those kind of ventures, all the kind of investments, [ pie in the sky ] investments and just sit on the Tencent shares and let them grow. Well, you had a very strong answer on that. You were still polite. I was still polite, but more critical, skeptical. I must admit 1 year later, I'm more positive, I'm more optimistic. So the skepticism was far too extreme.

Thank you. With that, I think we've been...

However, it will take a couple of more years for me to become a fan of Prosus. But I'm certainly more optimistic. And the optimism is not only the language in your annual report, which there's some kind of vibe in it, some entrepreneurial vibe. I'm sure that's also due to the new CEO. But especially since I love numbers more than I love people actually. So I'm especially positive about the fact that more and more of the businesses, not Tencent is becoming cash flow positive. And that is really essential. So now my question, my key question for today. I've got a new challenge, challenging question for you. Why not splitting Prosus up in 2 parts. One is Tencent, it's kind of investment fund or ETF, and they are very technical smart ways of making sure that discount will then disappear.

And then the other part is the thing where you're really spending your time on and where you're also investing, all those ventures, which are now in the meantime, getting close, some of them are getting close to cash flow positive because it has got 2 advantages. One of them, for sure, you got the type of shareholder then say, I really want to invest in the future and the future, which is in your hands instead of in the hands of the Tencent Board. There's less dependency on China. Many things can happen. So what is now a success story with Tencent can suddenly stop -- and then we've got 80% or more of our value, maybe 95% of value, more or less disappear. Secondly, probably even more important than that, it ensures that all your ventures have got more drive, more push even to become self-sufficient. You will be forced to apply an even more rigorous capital allocation process. I understand that in the beginning, it's almost impossible since you need to have funding, you need to go to banks, you need to back shareholders want to have some kind of capital from the market. If more and more of your businesses, your ventures are becoming cash flow positive, that issue disappears.

So my question to you is as a kind of new challenge, why not splitting up Prosus in 2 parts, Tencent shares separate and then all the ventures part together.

First, your 2 observations are accurate about Fabricio. The 2 things we emphasize most actually is a culture of enthusiasm and positivism. This is a dangerous game we play. You need a certain optimism. You need to try and fail and try again every day. So that's the big thing. And the next one is grow and be profitable at the same time, which is hard. It's okay to grow your revenue, making a loss, but it's hard to make a profit and then still grow because then you're not investing all your cash back into growth. On the Tencent thing, we're definitely not going to do that, not now or ever for the following reason. If you look at the U.S. economy very broadly, about 75% of all the money made during the past 2 years on all the stock exchanges, right? Careful, 75% of all the money made on all the stock exchanges were made in tech. The whole rest of the economy, defense, banks, everything else, 25%, okay? So you want to be in tech. Where do you want to be in tech?

Of that, the vast majority was made by 7 companies, the magnificent 7, right? They made $8 trillion between them in 2 years. It's unbelievable. And I say, why did that occur? It's because they have ecosystems. A typical small tech start-up has a chance of success, a chance of failure, but betting on it is a 50% game. That's not where the money is. The money is in the big systems. And why the big systems are so powerful is because they're self-reinforcing. So if you take Tencent, they have games, right? They're the #1 games company in the world, not in China, in the world, your kid, if you have a grandchild probably plays a Tencent game. And those games companies sit in America, Finland, all over the place, right? But it's a Tencent game. But they funnel traffic from their social networks into the games. They provide the payment method by their payment tool, right? They even provide credit. They provide communication between the games players through the whole ecosystem. So the strength of that -- and that's the same that Meta does, Facebook, same that Apple does. Apple is, in fact, a magnificent ecosystem worth $4 trillion.

Google has some of that. Amazon has some of that, and that's why they are the magnificent 7. Now there are only 2 places in the world where this has yet to occur, the U.S. and China, not in Europe. We're trying to do it. It hasn't happened here, hasn't happened anywhere else. Those are the 2 engines. That's also where AI is strongest in China. Tencent is one of the leaders in the world in AI. So if you say, where do we want to be invested? I want to be in China. Are there risks in China -- Is the risk in China bigger than the Europe? I don't think so. They don't have Ukraine on the doorstep, right? China is running at 4% growth, 5% growth a year. Yes, they have problems with the U.S., so have India, so have Brazil. I think the political risk is no bigger than anywhere else. It is one of the 2 gravitational centers of AI in the world. We want to be there.

The next thing is that there's a flow of knowledge and insights between Tencent and ourselves. So I was in the Board meeting of Tencent last week in Hong Kong, and we sat struggling with the problems and opportunities and so on for a whole week. Fabricio has been repeatedly there with these teams of people, how many times -- how many teams have you led to China in the last year?

I've been 4 or 5, but also the people in Prosus go there to learn. As we go to Silicon Valley a lot, we go to China a lot.

There's a flow of information. For example, the biggest food delivery system in the world is in China. It's not in the U.S. Chinese payments on mobile exceed the U.S. by a factor of, I think, 50 or so, just so much bigger. So in some fields, we can learn best in the U.S., and we respect that and we go learn. But in other fields, we can learn best in China. So China makes us a better operator. I mean they're technically far ahead of Europe, miles ahead of Europe. Okay. That's a long answer.

I recognize the story about ecosystems. Actually, that was my third question, but it's good to have addressed it right now. The one point where we probably differ in opinion is our assessment about the risk in China versus risks in Europe or certainly risks in the U.S. I'm sure 1 year ago, my point would have been stronger. The U.S. is a big friend of Europe, and we share similar values. Of course, now with Trump, that has changed slightly or even more than slightly. However, our assessment about the risk in China, the 2 of us, we differ on that point. And even if we don't differ on that point, that is a more nuanced opinion, we still have to conclude that 80% or 90% of your real true value is in China. It's not like 10%, 20%, 30% or 40%, which would make more sense as far as spreading your risks. So I do not change my opinion so far on this point yet. So the kind of risk assessment is at least different from the way I see it compared to your position.

Look, everyone is entitled to this view and to some extent, we all speculate. What is certainly true is that the level of serious risk in the world has increased, but it applies to every country in the world in a different way. So if you look at the U.S. There are certain heavy risk factors going on there. If you just look at the fiscal deficit, the risk that these trade policies are unleashing. No one knows where that will end. There's a risk factor there. It's a wonderful country. I admire it in many ways, but there's a big risk and high valuation on the stock exchanges now. I mean, Meta is trading at 25 PE, Tencent at 20 PE for no obvious reason. Then Europe has its own problems. I mean, Europe is getting poorer by the year. If you take where Europe was 20 years ago relative to the U.S. in terms of the GDP, it now has about 2/3 of the GDP of the U.S., if you add Britain to Europe, right? But a couple of years ago, it was the same. It's declining. And China is just racing ahead. India is racing. So Europe is a declining asset.

Our opinion on Europe is the same actually. So we don't differ. We did our own assessment on the risk of China versus U.S. But okay, I think you answered it very clearly. We don't split Prosus up in 2 parts. We're very happy because we want to be invested in China, and we do recognize this process is a big part of our assets of our value is tied up in China. I've got a second question, which is more technical and very easy to be answered. You've been indicating several numbers about the value creation because of the trick. I don't mean negatively. It's very obvious to do this, buying back your own shares at a discount by selling Tencent shares at a much higher price than you value yourself in your own company. That makes a lot of sense. You indicate in your annual report that this kind of procedure has created some kind of value of around $35 billion, also different numbers today, maybe $13 billion.

And I wonder if that is the correct calculation. Because shouldn't you compare doing nothing compared to buying back your own shares and selling Tencent? Because in the end, the kind of -- if you see what the value is of the shares you bought back is about $45 billion, which is a big profit compared because you only spent maybe $27 billion or so. So that's very positive. However, this came at a price. This came at a price of selling Tencent shares who've increased also in value to $43 billion. So in the end, you may have added, I think, around $3 billion. It's still a great number, but it's not $35 billion or $13 billion. So the kind of technical exercise that you've been doing, it was not a $35 billion value creation in my opinion. Or am I wrong?

I think you're largely right. Nico can come and explain. But the reduction in discounts a factor of 2 things. I think the one is the energy that Fabricio injected in the company and the good things that are happening in food delivery and classifieds and so on , that definitely added to it. Absolutely. Nico, you can ask -- talk on the rest.

Yes. Thank you for your question. Maybe to help you and our shareholders to get their heads around this, maybe the best way to look at it or a way to look at it is as follows. If we look at -- since we started our share buyback, what happened to the Tencent share price? Tencent share price went up by about 54% over that period. Through the buyback, we actually, on a per share basis, increased our exposure to Tencent. So from an individual shareholder perspective, they were not diluted in terms of their actual exposure to the company. If you include that impact, the growth for our shareholders has actually been not 54%, but 64%. That's what we refer to as the NAV and increasing the exposure to the underlying NAV.

The third part was, if you look at the actual discount that we were traded just compared to our Tencent stake, and I'm ignoring all the other assets, put a 0 value at that. At the time of starting the discount or the buyback, our discount was 41% to $0.10. Today, in the last week or so, it's improved to about 14%. That amplifies that increase from about 64% to more than 100% in the region of 140%. And that is what's driving the value for our shareholders through the discount reduction that they get on top of the increased exposure on a pure NAV technical basis to Tencent as well as the rest of our portfolio.

Actually, my comment is less critical than you may perceive it because one of my assumptions lying behind this kind of calculation is that the market assumes that all the other ventures that you're undertaking are eating up less cash in the future are probably becoming more profitable than the market assumed in the past. I was just referring to purely the technical exercise, and I don't think it was $35 billion. I think you should just conclude what have you been buying back from your own shares? What were they -- how much more are they worth right now? Well, that's $45 billion. What did you have to sell in order to be able to do that? Well, they increased also, but less than the $45 billion, only $42 billion. The difference is $3 billion. That is the actual benefit for the changing -- the Tencent shares changing to buying back your own shares. I don't think there's any other calculation you can make.

Nico. Errol is obviously financially steep and highly intelligent. I think you need to have a coffee to set and do a calculation coffee table.

I'm happy to do that. That's all.

A quick comment here, first to congratulate Errol that you came here next year as we agreed and shared his positive remarks on the progress. Koos talked a lot about ecosystem. And I would answer your question just saying one of the reasons not to split is the importance of ecosystem and also learning from China. But you said the second thing that they didn't talk about that is it would put more rigor on the operations. And what I can tell you that the level of pressure and energy we put in our own operations to improve the results no matter what is very, very, very high. So I don't think we need to split to -- I don't like to say we leave because of the money that comes from an investment that cause it. I don't like that. So our operations has the maximum level of pressure that we can do to have good results. So I don't think they split this specifically because we are already doing a lot.

Let me make a step in your direction. I truly believe that with kind of -- with your management style, there is enough pressure on every venture to make sure that they develop well, that they grow well and whatever the growth will be in the future, it will be profitable. So I've got confidence in that. I'm still skeptical about maintaining and keeping the Tencent shares for the long future.

Errol, you need to be here next year and holding to account. Questions, comments. Welcome.

[Foreign Language].

He's been here from [indiscernible] and he makes 2 points. The first point he makes is that the documents and the subtitles should have been properly translated into Dutch, and you are totally correct. We will do it next year immediately. It's an oversight, we should do it because where we operate in countries, we respect the country and we try to be good local citizens, and that includes speaking in the language of the country. So we'll do that. That's quite correct. The next question for Fabricio is for you. [indiscernible] says, just with Just Eat, why did you play the CFO and the CEO to do the deal? Are they getting big fat packets for that delivery?

I don't have -- thank you for the question. I don't have -- we disclosed most of the deals we did with the management. Can you help me Nico, on what is the extra information about this?

Nico, in Dutch. You can then translate.

[Foreign Language]

Translate quickly.

Yes. I just wanted to confirm that the Prosus has made an offer to acquire the Just Eat shareholding. That was approved. Our recommendation was accepted by the Board of Just Eat. Shareholders will now have the opportunity to tender their shares. That will happen towards the end of September, beginning of October. And that Prosus have made no arrangements relating to compensation or anything relating to the CEO or CFO of Just Eat. Their compensation arrangements at this point in time are governed by their own Board and the necessary governance processes that they have in place.

Thank you, Nico. Folks, another question or comment. Very welcome. Nothing further. No one. Lynelle?

Thanks, Chair. We seem to have now dealt with all questions from shareholders attending in person. And I also can confirm that we've received no questions from shareholders attending virtually. So back to you, Chair, but it appears that we're at our end of our Q&A.

The question session and answer session looks over. So Lynelle, could you put to us the specific agenda items that this meeting needs to deal with, and then we can finalize voting.

Thank you, Koos. So those shareholders who registered to vote at the meeting will now have an opportunity to vote in case they haven't done so. The explanations for each agenda item were provided in the notice of meeting. So I'm not going to repeat them now. I'm simply going to note the agenda item and the full text will be displayed on the screen.

So let's begin. We start with agenda item #2, which is an advisory vote. We then move on to agenda item #3. We then move to agenda Item #4 and then moving on to agenda item #5, followed by #6. We then move to agenda item #7 and then on to agenda item #8, on to the directors being agenda item #9, followed by agenda item #10. And then also on our rotating directors, agenda item 11.1 through to 11.4. And then we move to reappointing our auditors being agenda item #12, followed by agenda item #13. We then move to agenda item #14 and then agenda item #15 and finally, agenda item #16. We will pause for about 5 to 10 seconds while the votes are in, and I receive confirmation of that.

So folks, will just take a moment to finalize. The technical team will show you the results as soon as they've settled and Lynelle will then summarize them verbally for you.

[Voting]

Chair. I can now confirm that voting is completed and all the agenda items have been passed with the required majority. For your ease of reference, they will simply be displayed on the screen.

Thank you. Just to close off, the letter from Fabricio to shareholders will be published later today and the full details of this Annual General Meeting will be published in the stock exchange and new services and business wires tomorrow morning. Back to you, Koos.

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you. I conclude that we've finished all the agenda items put to this meeting and that the resolutions have been adopted. I just want to thank you for your support because this team cannot proceed unless they have your support. And at this point, we can declare the meeting closed. Thank you for everyone online and people physically present here are welcome to come for a cup of coffee next door. Thanks a lot. Stay well.

Good morning, partners. Hello, everyone. Good morning. Welcome. Welcome to our Capital Markets Day. I'm very happy to be here with you. I am Fabricio. I am Prosus' CEO. Do you notice the difference, not the new CEO. It's 1 year, 1 year old, everything changed. We had time to do everything we wanted. Let's stop talking about this new thing. I'm Prosus' CEO. I'm here for 1 year, and it's almost a CEO birthday, and it's a perfect day to do a Capital Markets Day. We are celebrating 1 year in this new position. On Monday, we talked a lot about our past. We talk about the numbers, the results, the EBITDA, the EBIT. I'm happy about that. We grow a little. We grow to $440 million. I'm even happy that it was much more than my original guidance. But that's the past.

We are here today to talk about the future, to talk about what we are going to build. And I'm very excited to what we are building. I'm really, really very excited, not because of the results of the last year. This is just okay, but because the company is ready to a new phase of growth and innovation. That's what we are going to talk about today. Our agenda for today includes talking about -- I will start here with who I am, just to quickly remind you about how we think big, but at the same time, we are very -- have a lot of discipline. We are going to talk about building ecosystems, lots of details about that, about innovation and our numbers. But the most exciting thing is that I'm just the guy here making presentations. So I'm going to give you like an overview in the first like 40 minutes.

But everyone really delivering that is here today. And a tech company is all about people, great people doing great things, and they are here. We have people from -- if you like the iFood results, don't believe what Fabricio said. You have Diego here. I can't see Diego, where are you? Diego, and we also have Gonzalo from Despegar. You can ask him directly. So please, he's here a little hidden there. Go to talk to Diego. If you want to talk about innovation, we have Euro here to talk about that. We have lots of people from our European team, like the famous Christian, where is Christian? Christian is a rock star, so probably you know him, but he's here. You should meet him and ask everything about OLX.

We have the people from eMAG and iyzico. Many times, we don't talk a lot about eMAg, iyzico, very unfair. The companies are doing great. I can see Tudor here, where he is, Orkun? Here, everyone is hidden there. you should come here. They are shy because we just started. So go talk to them. We have lots of people here, our Indian team, Harsha from Swiggy is here, Anirban too. That's the thing for our day. Talk to you all. I will be here until the end of the drinks. So today is the day to talk and to share and to bring together about what we are building. That's the agenda for my intro today.

But I invite you, please scan this Toqan QR code. You have the full day agenda, all the presentations. Vitti from People and Culture is going to talk today too. So it's going to be an exciting day. But here, you have the full agenda. You also can talk to Toqan, so you can ask him questions about the presentations, the orders, the numbers. Toqan know the numbers better than Equal. So you should ask Toqan all the numbers. And we are going to use the Toqan data to share with you what you want to look to know more and to keep sharing more data with you. So that's my agenda for today. I hope you are excited. I will be here the whole day. Let's start this conversation and let's work together to create $100 billion bigger Prosus. Let's go for that.

So who am I to start? I can ask [ Ross ] to put the slides full screen here. So who am I, to start. I'm Brazilian. I look like a Dutch, I know. I live in Amsterdam, but I'm not Dutch. I am Brazilian. I'm from Bahia. I hope you know that. If not, you should go to Bahia in Brazil. I started studying computer science many years ago. I'm 48 years old, married and with 4 daughters. I started studying computer science many years ago in Brazil. Then I did management in FGV, Stanford, Harvard. Then I created this company called Movile that has more or less 10 business in Brazil, like contents and payments and many business. And we also had a food delivery business called iFood. I was the CEO of iFood for the last many years. You can see I could deliver your food if you are visiting Brazil a few years ago. iFood grow a lot. iFood is a very nice company. I heard it's even better today with the new CEO. Let's see. Let's see, he's the next speaker.

But I got a call from our Board, our Mr. Chairman to say, I'm partner for Prosus for 15 years. So I'm not new anymore. I'm CEO, but I work with Prosus for 15 years as partners. And our Chairman asked, would you be interested in coming here to run the whole business, the whole Prosus. And my reaction is, I'm not like a allocator of a portfolio that just do the investments and keep it doing. But I would love the opportunity to create one of the biggest tech companies in the world outside the U.S. So I think this is an amazing opportunity, an amazing platform. And I move to Amsterdam, and here, I mean Prosus, because that's how I see Prosus. Some of you see differently, that's how I see Prosus. I know Prosus from 15 years, and Prosus started as a print company in South Africa, then it completely reinvented itself to a pay TV than a mobile network, and it became global known because it helped to create the social network vision of the world today through the Tencent investment.

Look, we are not the biggest company in the world today yet. But think how much print companies from 100 years ago, you know that reinvented like that and are successful as we are today. I don't think you know any of them. I don't think they exist. And pay TV or mobile networks, you know. That's what I love in Prosus. This is a company that has innovation in its DNA that's reinvented itself many times. And I came here with this big dream of we can keep reinventing ourselves to create the most amazing company, Internet company outside the U.S. Obviously, we have $1 trillion business in U.S. They are amazing. I'm sure you all have hundreds of billion dollars invested in U.S. company. Congratulations. They are amazing. But you also need to invest outside the U.S. There is a clear space and opportunity for real big tech outside U.S. That's my dream about Prosus. Prosus reinvented itself many times, and I'm very excited about our next stage. We are going to talk about that today.

So moving on. The reason I believe so much in Prosus is this. It's not because of the $450 million EBIT. It's not because we have only cash, but it's because of this combination. We have 40,000 people all around the world, mostly outside U.S., 100% of them outside of the U.S. We have 10,000 tech people with $11 billion in cash. I know Microsoft and OpenAI and Google has more cash and more tech people, but I don't think outside U.S. and China, you have any platform with this capacity of creating, innovating and pushing new products and services, starting with a 2 billion customer base. I think this platform is amazing. I think we are just getting started, and we have everything to do, not because Fabricio is a smart, I basically do presentations, but because we have hundreds of talented leaders, entrepreneurs that are very passionate about Prosus, and we are -- you are going to listen from many of them today. And please make the difficult questions. That's why we are here today, and we really want to share what we are doing with you.

So that's why I'm excited about Prosus. I'm excited because we are building something amazing, and we are going to explain to you what we are building today. But the foundation for what we are building is culture, investment events, people doesn't talk a lot about culture. I'm sorry, you are going to hear about that today. I think it's a big mistake. That's the foundation about the company, how we have good people moving fast, innovating, taking risks, solving problems and creating the future. That's the biggest transformation in Prosus over the last 1 year. And we have a culture that is very entrepreneur today that is ambidextrous. It talks about results, but also about innovation that reinforce people, reinforce our impact. You are going to listen about that from Gustavo Vitti. He is our Chief People Officer. I hope you enjoy to know more about our culture. If during the presentation, you think why they are talking about that, that's because I'm confident we are going to keep growing, winning and doing -- creating the next phase of e-commerce.

So we are going to talk a lot about culture today. Then we move on, and we are going to talk -- at the same time, you talk about culture, innovation, thinking big, but I want to reinforce to you our way to operate is thinking big innovation, people, but also growth and discipline, not because I am the new CEO, I have to say that. I'm not the new CEO anymore, but because that's what I learned in my 20 years running Movile and iFood. We have to think about the future, but we have to deliver today real results. So at the same time that we talk about disruption and thinking big, we have a very disciplined management model where we tell the whole 30,000 people, not including just [ ETF ], not closed, I can say that I can do that with them. We align 30,000 people to the same direction to the same priorities to think together how to create a winning company, and that's very powerful. That's what's making our results improve because now I have the capacity to influence 30,000 people direction to collaborate. That's what Prosus is doing.

So a detailed management model, focusing growth and profitability, not only on innovation and thinking big. Our culture reinforced all the time. We call it internally face the brutal facts. I hope you read Jim calling his book, Good to Great. We have many great books, and he call it the Stock Day Paradox. And we talk about that all the time internally. The Stock Day Paradox means keep optimistic that in the end, you prevail. But every day, face the most brutal facts of your current reality. That's our culture. Fabricio is optimistic. Yes. I'm a tech founder, I'm optimistic. Every day in the morning, I wake up and say, f***, we are not doing good enough. We are not moving good enough. We didn't solve our problem in discounting, not here. Let's talk about that. Let's point fingers to everything that is wrong, starting with myself and let's fix it today.

So the culture is being optimistic, but very, I could say, direct, disciplined, brutal in talking about problems and solving problems fast. So many of you actually say, but are you going to confront the brutal facts and sold a few business and crystallized value, as you like to say. We sold around $2.6 billion this year. More than that, we closed many markets where we are not winning. We exit business where we are not winning. We made trade-offs. We said we are going to win here. And if you are not winning in those other places, we are going to -- or change management or deprioritize or sell or exit, but we are here to win, and we are going to make all the hard decisions, the difficult decisions to keep the focus in our winning objective.

And I have to tell you, Fabricio talks about that, but there is many leaders here that took many very difficult decisions like closing markets, firing hundreds of people, and they are here, please talk to them about that. So trimming, but delivering this aid Extra culture is the base of what we do. We dream big, and it means we want to be the biggest company in Europe. We want to be the largest European company. Today, we value $122 billion. I smile a little more today. I don't know how much it is. It was like $130 billion. So a good start. But we want to be much more. Our biggest -- our big goal was to start at $170 billion. I'm talking now much more than $200 billion. We want to build this company. We are going to move fast and empower people to get there.

How we are going to do it? Two things, ecosystem and innovation. I'm going to talk briefly because today, I have all the owners of these projects to come here and talk. So just to give you this overview about how everything fits together. First, we are building the #1 lifestyle e-commerce company in Europe, India and Latin America, unlock an AI-first world, what it means? We are not investing in one single company, and we believe that they can do magic by themselves. But we believe working in an ecosystem, we can do magic with cross-sell, sharing management model, people, talent, technology, AI, data in a specific region, we can be the best, the #1 in that region. That's what we mean about #1 lifestyle ecosystem.

We also do specifically eMAG delivery of boxes, but our focus is not box. It's what we call lifestyle e-commerce. So you can buy food, you can buy even boxes if you deliver it fast because it's more like a service. I need a perfume to go to a party now or to give a gift that I ask and I receive it now. You can pay your things quite fast. You can buy travels, you can buy events. So it's more like a digital items or items that you receive very fast instead of buying -- selling like a TV, for example.

And AI-first. The world changes completely. My master thesis is about innovation dynamics. I could talk about that for 2 hours. I will not get in details, but the world changed 300 times over the last 300 years with many disruptive waves from combustion to Internet to so many waves. The biggest wave is not the Internet or smartphone. It's the next 5 years. It is AI and its impact changing all the companies. The only way we are going to be a best-in-class biggest company in the world if we are leading that globally.

I'm not talking about making $10 billion check. I know some of you are U.S. investors. The U.S. investors are richer than us. We are not that rich. We are very disciplined in allocating capital, but winning in AI is the only way to dream about building a 10x bigger company. But we don't start from scratch. We start with 2 billion customers. This is so valuable. This is more valuable than you think because we are in a world where to train amazing AI models, you need a lot of data. So a small start-up can compete against me, yes, but I think we are very fast in innovation. But a small start-up doesn't have 10 trillion tokens of data that helps me to have the best models. That's what we are doing.

Moving on because I told you I will be fast in this opening. We are going to do that through ecosystems. What means in the foundation, food and fintech. Why this is the foundation? Because this is very high-frequency business. This is business that people use or buy 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 times per week. It's very different than regular e-commerce where people buy once every quarter or every 4 months. Even in China, and I think China was the best place in the world to have this kind of ecosystems where they call it super app there, where people can do many things in one place. China needed the payments and the food to have even WeChat and the Tencent and Alibaba ecosystem running faster. We are doing that. We are using food and payment as a foundation to build on top of that e-commerce and experience services.

How we leverage these synergies? User engagement, we can increase user engagement. We can reduce cost of acquisition. We can reduce costs, we can increase growth through cross-sell, and we can use data to understand the customers, serve them better and sell to them more often. I really believe on that. I think the big benchmark is China, but we also can see that when Uber in U.S. or Facebook or Microsoft or Google has a very complete ecosystem. We don't have similar big tech outside U.S. and China. I think we are doing that. If you think this is too abstracts, we are going to give you more details about how we do that in Latin America.

And I want to spend 1 minute to you asking you to reflect on that. What we have in Latin America now, we completed the Despegar transaction. Very few regions in the world has one player with the market share and the scale we have doing all of that together. Obviously, in China, we have it in a few markets, mostly smaller than what we have, but we have a very strong food delivery player, very, very, very strong with like 70 million customers, a payment infrastructure doing credit and payments.

On top of that, e-commerce through OLX, Sympla, the #1 events company, Despegar, Decolar, the #1 travel company. Very few regions in the world can implement this ecosystem. I believe there will be a lot of value you take from here. We are going to implement that. We are implementing that through our loyalty program, club. And I'll not talk more because Diego is going to come here in half an hour or in 1 hour and tell you how it's happening and what we are doing right now. We completed the Despegar acquisition just 1 month ago. We are launching, I think, 3 to 5, I don't know how much was already launched. Diego is going to tell details, shared experience in 1 month. So I'm very confident we are moving very fast, and we have amazing results here.

So this is the basis. The second big thing I really believe we are going to unlock Europe potential. Look, Europe is more or less the size of U.S., okay, 10%, 15% is smaller in terms of population or GDP. But look, our tech infrastructure, our tech sector in Europe is 10, 20x smaller than U.S. The 6 biggest U.S. companies are $13 trillion. The 6 biggest European companies are like $0.5 trillion. There is a very big opportunity. I think the market here has amazing potential. If you can move very fast, be aggressive, innovate and invest to win here. That's our expectation. We are going to do that. I'm going to talk more about that soon.

I believe the third slide, but besides these 2, we have also India. And in India, we have, again, a food delivery leader, Swiggy; payment infrastructure, PayU and Vastu; Meesho, the leader in e-commerce; Urban Company and Rapido. I think we have a very special set of companies, not assets, but amazing company that working together can create something very unique. If you don't believe me, okay, you're going to listen today all those leaders talking about what we are going to do on these areas. I hope you get as excited as I am.

Moving forward, investing and having customers and business that today are successful is good, but we only lead if we can create the next generation of services. And we are going to do that through AI. After me, we will have Euro talking what we are doing. I like this slide very much just to make you dream with me. Most of the value in most of the Internet services like cloud or everything we have before are in the application players like Salesforce or all the application players. In AI, all the value today is on NVIDIA and 1 or 2 other infrastructure players. I believe in a few years, we will see $1 trillion or $2 trillion of value there in the application layer. That's where we are investing. I put there the DeepSeek moment to remember -- to remind us all. When DeepSeek arrived, everyone thought, oh my God, this is not a one company show. Everyone can embed that in their services, and there will be transformative things happening.

We are doing that through the investment in our own company. We are very good in investing in Toqan internally. Euro is going to explain more or to invest in our 800 models or to invest in start-ups that can help us grow faster. But I like it very much. We are also being, I would say, frontier, cutting edge in saying how we train, how we fine-tune open source model to have knowledge embedded in the model of our 10 trillion data points. You may say, Fabricio, tell me more. No, I will let Euro tell you more. And if you have a very difficult question, you should not ask me. But Euro is here, you should ask, so save the difficult questions for him. I'm kidding. I also can answer, but it's much more funny if he answers.

Moving on. So I really believe in the impact of innovation. I really believe in the impact of AI. I don't think we are overhyping AI. To be honest with you, I think some investors are overhyping the investment in AI. So I think AI is going to create trillions of dollars of value. It doesn't mean we should invest trillions of dollars today. We should build to the investments over time as new services are created. I think Prosus is very well positioned to explore that. In Latin America, we are the big one that can invest there. In India, we are the big one that can invest there in Europe. And we can invest in local companies, we can invest in local talent. So I'm very confident we are going to leverage this opportunity.

So just to finish my quick introduction. Also, we are very focused on results. We did $6.2 billion last year, [ fun ]. We are going to do between around $6 billion to $7.4 billion, $6.3 billion to -- $7.3 billion to $7.5 billion. We are giving you a little more, how can I say, guidance ahead? Our expectation is to double the revenue between '25 and '28. So it means around $12.5 billion.

I want to tell you a funny story. Someone told me, don't tell this story, but I'm sorry, I can't control myself. Originally, it was a range here from 2 to some other number. Then we said, let's take the bigger one because sometimes we look too optimistic, let's put the smaller number. So this is a smaller number. Why to me it is important to say we expect it to grow. Because during this 1 year, when I was a new CEO, I'm not anymore. Every time I say we are doing good, many of you that write about us, they say, they are doing good. Can they keep it or they are going to go down 50% by next quarter. I read it like 10 times. I said we are doing good and the report is maybe it was one thing and it's going to go half next quarter. So because of that, we are saying, look, we expect it to keep growing substantially. As I told you, my real goal is bigger than that. I'm trying to say, we don't expect it to go down by next quarter. We are confident the company can keep growing. Why? We have 6 hours about that in the next presentations. I hope you enjoy. And if you have difficult questions, we are here to answer those questions. Hope you get as excited as we are.

Moving forward, I know there is someone there. I think he is thinking, okay, everyone can do growth if you don't deliver profit. The guy is Brazilian and like he's a tech founder, I'm sure he doesn't know what profit is. You are wrong. Yes, we know what profit is. We started last year -- I'm showing here EBITDA also for the first time in the main presentation. A funny thing to you know, we always reported EBIT or trading profit and EBITDA. Usually, we put EBITDA in the attachment. The last slides are the reconciliation. I'm showing here today both of them. And then you still have the last slide reconciling the 2 numbers.

The $435 million is equivalent of $655 million in EBITDA this year. We expect it to go to around $1.15 billion, so $1.1 billion, $1.2 billion next year. this year that we are doing now. And our ambition is to keep increasing more than 3x -- more than 3.5x over the next 3 years, including some M&A. So when I told you many times, forget measuring us in millions, we really expect that we are going to be talking about billions in EBITDA and also EBIT of Prosus over the next few years. We have a detailed plan that we are confident about how to get there. So this is not the most aggressive number. This is what we expect to deliver. We don't want to show a year-by-year plan for the next few years.

And the reason is -- I don't think the problem is Prosus, to be honest. The world is so uncertainty now -- uncertain now like even today, we check the news to see what's happening. So I don't think it's good for Prosus to give a detailed plan for a few years. What I want to show you is we are not playing to say we have $0.5 billion in profit. We are playing to have multiple billions, and we are going to deliver that. If you say you don't believe, at least in the first year, we deliver, let's go for the second one. In the first few months, we are very confident with the numbers. Let's keep reporting you and writing letters about what's happening.

We keep our buyback. Our buyback is the biggest one of the tech companies. We already bought back 29% of our company. What means, in my opinion, we believe so much in our story that we keep buying ourselves because there is no better investment than Prosus. This is a message for you. We are on discount today. So you can buy a very good Prosus shares with 30% discount, great opportunity, don't lose it. So we are going to keep our buyback.

But I want to finish -- my intention was to talk briefly because we are going to see everything I show in details now with this story. When I was a new CEO, I arrived here 1 year ago, and I participated in the last meeting like that, not CMD, but the last results. And people were a little, how can I say, nervous, upset, and they were -- they told it to me very directly, let's say, this way. So I heard a lot of constructive feedback from you. And I told Eoin, why do you -- the discount is so big, why they are so unhappy. And they said me, yes, some people make this joke. We are Tencent minus. And I think it is a bad joke because I don't believe that. I see us as, wow, we are going to build an amazing company.

But 1 year after that, I made a slide about this bad joke. That is -- that's what Eoin explained to me 1 year ago. Some investors say, we take dividends, $560 million 2 years ago. Then we have our losses around $200 million. Then we have our corporate costs, $100 million, $160 million. Then there is something that's there in the end, and then we try to distribute that if we don't spend everything. So they say that's why there is some discount because we are expanding -- also he told me that is also because of the tax impact. But actually, we have like $120 billion of tax shield. So I don't think that's because of the tax inefficiency on taxes. So that's what I heard 1 year ago. Yes, I am optimistic about the future. Don't forget the Stock Day of Paradox. So in the end, we will prevail. That's how I see Prosus, not like that.

This is the current numbers that we released today -- not today, like this week. Tencent dividend is 32% up last year, right? What is great in my opinion? Our e-commerce EBITDA is 100% up, what in my opinion, again, it's great. Our corporate costs are more or less the same, a little smaller. And our dividends increased by 100%. So in my opinion, instead of saying Tencent minus, you should say at least Tencent 10 plus because, look, where is the minus here? Everything is up, up, up, up. But this is -- thinking is small. What I'm building is Prosus plus. Yes, we have a Tencent. It's nice. It's good to be a big Tencent shareholder. And just to remind you, we made this slide also looking for 3 years ahead. Then I said, they are not -- you are a little too pessimistic. You're not going to believe in 3 years ahead.

So let me show you what we are doing this year. This year, Tencent dividend is up 24%. Look, I think Tencent is an amazing company. It's the leader in the biggest market in the world, innovating a lot. So I'm very bullish that Tencent is going to keep playing very well. It's up 24% this year. Now they just released the data, it's public data. What I'm announcing today is that we expect at least 83% improvement in EBITDA. Some people believing more, but let's say at least. And our corporate costs, we are going to reduce it at least by 10%. And because we are a big companies, big companies is always too rich, and we have to keep reviewing that all the time. So because of that, we already announced dividend -- I already told about that. The dividend increase last year was 100%.

So in my opinion, we have a lot of opportunity to grow, can be dividends, can be buybacks, can be investments, smart investments with good IRR. But what I'm trying to build is we are Prosus and Prosus is a great investment, plus it's big shareholding on Tencent. If some of you don't believe, come back here next year in the next Capital Markets Day, and let's keeping track of our results. Some of you are thinking, he is optimistic. Yes, I don't know -- I don't know very successful people that are not optimistic, but we also deliver and you are going now to listen from lots of our leaders why the vision I just showed you is going to become reality.

So thank you, everyone, for coming. I come back in 1 hour for a Q&A, then I come back in the afternoon for Europe. We have a bigger -- many Q&As during the day, like 5 Q&As or 6. So I hope you enjoy the day as much as me. Don't forget, we are just getting started, and we have a lot of amazing things to do. Thank you very much, and let's go. I'd like to come to ask here Mr. Euro. Euro, please come here, and thank you. Let's go.

[Presentation]

Good morning, everyone. My name is Euro, like the money. It's a real name. But I'm not going to talk about money. Nico is going to do that. I'm going to talk about how AI powers our next wave of innovation. I'm going to talk, in fact, about 3 things. The first thing is how we got here. We started investing in AI seriously in about 2018. So how we got here. And the second part is going to be how are we going to reinvent e-commerce and how we are going to reinvent our workforce. These are the 2 pillars of our AI strategy.

But let me start first how we got here. So back in 2018, we were a small team, maybe 60 AI engineers globally, now it's 10x that. Over time, we have increased capacity. We increased the number of models in production. And we prepared, I think, very well for the next wave of innovation. So at this moment, we invest close to $100 million in AI. It's in talent, modern development, technology infrastructure. And that enables us to bring in production about 800 models, each one of them, either reducing cost or increasing profitability market share. And we estimate that collectively, we have a return between 2 and 5x. So for every dollar we invest in AI, the return is 2 to 5x. And that's one of the reasons why the results you've seen recently are those they are. This is a contribution to that.

We also invest in our internal, the way that we work, how we can make AI improve the efficiency of our operations. We released an agent, an assistant for everybody in our group. Everybody uses Toqan, that's the name. You also have a version of that in the CMD application, and that's powered by Toqan. About 15,000 colleagues use it now out of 24,000 at this moment before JET and Despegar. So we are closing to saturation about everybody. We estimate that Toqan has saved about 1.7 million hours in the last 12 months, which is about 1,000 FTEs. It means that we have done the work of 1,000 FTEs extra without hiring 1,000 FTEs extra, right?

The way we operate is as a tightly connected network of AI specialists around the globe. Our hub is Amsterdam, and we have development centers for AI everywhere in the ecosystem where we operate, Latin America, South Africa and India. They tend to specialize on their particular business. So Sao Paulo for food delivery, Buenos Aires is for travel, but we work very close together as if we were one. So the best practices in one company are shared as fast as we can to other companies so they can get things done faster or make less errors in that process. So it is a tightly connected network of tech centers with over 750 specialists.

Just a few more details of what that means. Typically, everything that we do either saves costs or increases some form of profitability, right? Here, I got 4 examples. iFood uses AI to reduce the cost of customer acquisition or reacquisition, about 32%. Meesho uses AI to automate as much as possible customer support. You see they automated from hand to about 90%, right? By the way, it's more or less the same everywhere. So customer support is one of the areas where there is a significant degree of automation. So this is just one example. OLX uses artificial intelligence to get more value from every dollar of advertisement. So here, you can see that for every dollar of advertisement spent with AI, we get 17% more. It is actually higher than that, but let's say 17% more. iFood again increases conversions on the -- on page, 23% before and after AI. These are 2 -- 4 of 800 models. Each one of them is in production because it improves on some metrics. Each one of them is there because it adds value.

We also invest in AI-native start-ups. What's interesting here, independent of the name of the start-ups, which are exceptional for what they do, but they are in these 2 areas. On the one hand, AI workforce and the other hand, improving or changing or reinventing e-commerce. So the way that we look at the start-ups as an engine for accelerating what are our pillars. On the one hand, e-commerce reinvention, the other one, AI workforce. And that's what comes to the rest of my thought is where are we going to do? Where are we going to be? So we believe that we can reinvent e-commerce through 2 things: AI agents and large commerce models. And that is going to go into these 2 directions. On the one hand, e-commerce reinvention and the other one, reinventing our own workforce.

Let me start with e-commerce. So this is customer-facing, outwards facing. We believe that the future of e-commerce is going to be predicated on agents and large commerce models. Agents are technologies that not only answer, you ask something, you get an answer. They do things for you. This is something that was not viable until 2 years ago, business viable about 1 year ago. Now it is getting adopted at scale. Because of that, a few things are going to change. First of all, new interfaces are going to be possible. WhatsApp, voice, any type of interface, it's going to be viable. It can be these glasses eventually are going be the ones from which you initiate a transaction. That's because agents and LCM empower that. It is going to be everywhere because once you have that, it doesn't have to be a browser, which is the place where you buy. Any digital surface is an e-commerce surface. It can be again the glass, it can be a kiosk, it can be the car, it can be a video. Anything which is digital becomes an AI interface.

Extremely important is the ability of personalization. Everything that you have seen in e-commerce until now was based on similarity. You buy this because somebody like you likes it, too. right? But we never really understood intent properly. I think we are at the point where we start understanding intent and the reason why we buy, which is a core component to make the experience hyper-personalized. Then of course, once you understand intent, then the ecosystem makes more sense because you can serve that intent through a portfolio of offering. So intent understanding, it's powered by the ecosystem and you power back the ecosystem. And finally, it's going to be much more autonomous with entire tasks that are going to be executed in the background for you. So you don't have to go and search for something, an agent will do it for you.

Let me focus first on the large commerce models. So Fabricio already stole my thunder, but just a bit. So we anticipated this structure here. So let's go back a few years. We, and when I say we, I'd say the AI ecosystem globally, have taken everything we could find on the Internet, books, everywhere. We use that data to train models for language and these models predict text, predict the next word. That's how ChatGPT and Gemini and all the others have been created. It's only simple text prediction, but it's extremely powerful, right? You have -- I assume everybody of you have the same experience.

Now a couple of years ago, people figured out that system that reason perform better. What does it mean reasoning? Instead of just giving an answer, it gives you the chain of thought that leads to the answer. That reason in part makes system better. How do you train for reasoning? Many ways, through coding because coding has a lot of logic inside there, through acquiring data, explicitly for that through human judgment. And then we train with that, and you have seen an example in DeepSeek, and you have agents. Agents are predicated on the ability of this module to think. What the agents do, they take your questions, they break it down in pieces and for each piece, decide which tool to use to execute the task and then give you the answer, right?

This is the state-of-the-art for everybody. This is what we do. We take the same technologies that we have used in the past year, and we train them with e-commerce data, with transactions. And we make these models understand e-commerce, right? So they are the brains of e-commerce. We use our own data, which is terabytes of data. We use open source models in this case, and we call these tools large commerce models.

Let me give you a little bit of additional, let's say, insights about how this works. This is a strategy that we use to train the models. 99% of what matters is not in this light because these are all the specific technical problems that we solve to get to that place. But the logic is like this. We take transaction data and we create user insights and product insights. This is the same data that we have for a long time, but intelligence, we are able to transform that data and [ something ] that makes more sense. It is the same of telling you temperature, humidity and wind speed or I tell you good weather. It's the same thing, right? There's no difference. But temperature, humidity and wind speed may mean nothing to you. I can transform that in something that matters, that means something for you.

So this is exactly what we do with terabytes of data. We create user insights, which are transformation. You'll see it in a second of what the user like, doesn't like and the way it behaves. We do product insights because in the same way, assume that you are a vegetarian and you want to order some vegetarian food. You will never get a pizza margarita. I'm Italian. So a good pizza margarita is a great choice. The reason why is that? Because unless the restaurant has put the tag vegetarian on the dish, machines do not know that, right? These machines understand that. The ingredients of these things have to be such that this dish is vegetarian. Simple example, but it's the same idea, product inside. So we transform the data and something that makes more sense. And then we do something else.

With that data and with the past transactions, we put the model in between and we ask the model, why did the user do that, right? You have the things that happen, you have the results, but why? We call it rationales. That's where the model starts thinking, it starts learning to think. Once we have connected this information, this information, we train our model. Our model is based on open source and is trained on all these product insights, user insights, rationales, and we call it LCM. LCM is designed to understand e-commerce and the behavior of users.

How? But one of the items that the LCM does, it understands users 10x more in depth. For every user, we have clicks, payments, searches, anything that user does. And the LCM is capable of telling you preferences, routines, eating patterns, health preferences, social habits and something which is beyond what you have trained the system for. It's probably easier if you can try it out.

So if you could show my screen here, thank you very much. So what I have here, a chat message. So what I'm going to do, I'm going to talk to the LCM. I'll do it in a very slow manner. I'll do it one message at a time. And you have to consider that this tool, in fact, is used in the back end of our systems, and it does it millions of times every minute, right? So we do one question at a time very slowly.

But first of all, let me go here. And I have a user here. I tell you what the user insights are about. So about this user, this is what we can get from the data. Well, lives in a high-end income neighborhood with a likely household of 2 and a cat, right? During weekdays, lunch -- sorry. During weekdays, lunch tends towards practical dishes and so on that look at delivery analysis. We see the dietary preferences, the top categories of dishes and so on. And analytics, we can see time when the user orders, payment methods, order location and so on, right? So this is what I mean with user insights. So let me try one thing now, and let's ask -- say, based on what we know about this user. What are they like? What are they more likely to order for lunch on Monday, pasta or sushi? Let's find out.

So what happens now it starts reasoning about what it knows about the user. It start reasoning about the dish, food or pasta and start looking at the various processes. And based on the user profile, they are more likely to order sushi for Monday, which for Italian this is disappointing, right? But still, this is the best option for this user. Why is that? Let's go back a second. Well, it looks at the weekday patterns. It compares the characteristics of sushi and pasta, and then it looks at Monday patterns in particular, and then it reasons so that based on this analysis, the user is most likely to do this. Okay. Let's continue.

So another thing that we do frequently, and it's one of the cornerstones of advertisement and marketing in iFood, we send push notifications. These are very short messages that the user receives on the phone and it's supposed to trigger some activity. Now these messages work if they are very targeted at the right time with the right message. So let's do it. Prepare a push notification for sushi on iPhone, suggesting restaurant and make it short and compact, make it engaging. All right. So what does it do? It looks at the preferences, looks at Monday lunch, it looks what it means to do something on the iPhone, and it gives me the notification. Notification is in Portuguese here because it is designed for a Portuguese user.

But notice one thing, let's say, sushi experimenters and so on. I just noticed that without Wasabi. Why is that? Well, it is without Wasabi, it has to be somewhere in the thinking process. There you go. Sushi preferences, they consistently decline Wasabi. All right. That makes a lot of sense because think about 20% of users in food have specific restrictions, preferences and all these kind of things. So the ability to pick in that specific one makes a difference.

Let's do another thing now. I'm going to take a restaurant. Let's see what do I do? I pick one of those available here. I don't know them, but it's just to pick a restaurant. And I'm going to ask if the user is going to like this restaurant. On a scale between 0, do not like and 5, like a lot. How much do you think this user will like this restaurant? This user will like this restaurant, right, all right.

So what it does, it has to go now in the restaurant. It has a bunch of facts about the restaurants. It looks at the specific menu of these restaurants. And it says, well, it's not 5, but it's a good bet. So you probably should recommend this restaurant. And the reason why is that? Well, because given the characteristics of the user, given the characteristics of the restaurant itself, it does a number of these things. The user never ordered here. However, they do empanadas, which seems coherent with the other things. The premium pricing might be acceptable. The user tend to do combos. You can see where it goes. It understood the characteristics of the users and it matches the characteristics of the restaurant. Now let me try something which is maybe strange here. This model has been trained on iFood data. It doesn't see anything else.

In Brazil, we have Sympla. Sympla is our event companies, thousands of events of any type, concerts, local events, big events. Would be nice if I could say something about preferences for events. Let me try. Based on what you know about this user, could you make an educated guess on which of these 2 events the user could like. Sorry -- it just -- improved, show for a local Brazilian band. I need to be gentle in asking this because otherwise, it comes back, hey, be gentle here. I don't -- I haven't seen anything about concerts, right? But it's going to say, let's start thinking. First, I need to understand the user overall preference and lifestyle for it tries to extrapolate from the behavior on, let's say, the food preferences and what can be generalized about that. And then after thinking quite a while here, is coming back with -- see, it has to go through a lot of thinking.

There we go. The user profile, they are likely to enjoy both, but Jazz might be more appealing for a Monday lunch. Hey, right? However, they also appreciate traditional cuisine and so on and so on. So now you have seen, all right, here, I pushed the user to go for an event in lunch. It makes no sense, right? But you know the meaning. What this tool has done has taken characteristics of the food behavior and extrapolate something which is beyond that, right? And this is what we're really looking at exploiting using because the more you train across properties, the more you know about both. But the more you extend what you know from one property to outside that is going to impact the others is going to be beneficial for the other side as well.

So let's go back to the slides now. So as I said before, we use proprietary data, our own data to train LCM at high quality and low cost. We use open source for that. Why do we use open source? Because we want to have total control of our data and because open source, it's only about 3% on average inferior to closed source. So we can get an open source model pretrained. It's about 3% inferior to the best models out there. But the other thing which is really important is this. We made this test. We train our own LCM based on Qwen. This is an open source model. It has 32 billion parameters. We trained on our insights and our rationales. And then we took the best model out there, o3 from OpenAI is the biggest reasoning model available at this point in time. We exposed this model to our own data. We didn't give it the rationales. And you can see this. They are the same. This is a massive model, extremely expensive. This is a small model that we trained, right? Besides the small model here, it is 20x less expensive and 5x faster. That's the reason we try LCM.

Let me now see how this is used in practice. And I want to look at 3 things. First of all, LCM, when we apply it in operations. We just started this process, right? But we expect it's going to improve the made -- the way we do e-commerce in 3 main ways. It improves the way we do it now. So the notification that I've shown you before, it's already been tested and these are the results. It doubles the efficiency, right? We are testing, we are deploying the same application on iFood in concierge. That means what people see, and we see increasing conversion. The next one is going to be this one, and you will see the results over summer.

So let's do a very quick check on ordering some food on iFood. So I'm not sure if I'm going to receive a phone. I think I will. Thank you very much. So I'm live now. It is 6:00 a.m. in the morning in Brazil, right? And I had a long night. I would really love a gourmet burger. The reason why I'm on WhatsApp because in many geographies, WhatsApp is the platform of choice for everybody. It's not the web, it's not the application, it's the WhatsApp. The second thing is the reason why I'm here is because I want to show an agent. In WhatsApp, since it's an open interface, you can't really know what's the next thing the user is going to be. Therefore, I need an agent behind that listen to what I'm doing and decides what to tell you as I'm doing it. All right. Let's see what it says. It says you are in the breakfast shift right now, but yes, I already found the burger [ P6 ]. That sounds good. So let's show me options. Show me options.

So at every stage of this conversation, the agent has to find out, first of all, it's already found out who I am and what are my preferences, but now it has to find out all the other things that it could offer me. And through conversation, I'm going to go into the options that I have, into the preferences that I want to do -- sorry, it gave me something different. It gave me breakfast things. All right. All right. That's fine. Would you try searching for burger? I couldn't find dishes matching your search for good burger right now. So that might be a problem because it is 6:00 a.m. I don't have breakfast, which are open, right, let's say. That's all right. Why don't you suggest something that I still like? So I'll go with voice and it's going to understand what I'm saying and it's going to look for something that I probably like, right?

So the role of the agent here is that of connecting what they know about me, the user insights. So it can still give me something which is close to my needs, chicken sandwich wrap, omelette which is in bacon. So it went away from suggesting something which is sweet to something which is savory. All right. So at this moment, I could continue the conversation, find out what are the things that I want to do in toppings and all this kind of stuff, put an order and continue.

But there are 2 things that I want to emphasize here. First of all, your experience is in WhatsApp, right? So you have a platform that people use for everything, talking to the doctor, paying at the bank and so on is the platform of choice. Second, it is agentic. Therefore, it understands what you need to do. All right. Let's go back to the slides.

Once you have that in place, this is what we expect is going to happen. So we are going to train the LCM here on billions of rich data from our own platforms. It's going to be food delivery, initial instant commerce, cars, everything. By the way, I'm going to show examples about food because everybody relates easily with food, but this is applied everywhere. It's not a food platform. Once you have this platform there, then agentic applications are going to be available for everybody. All right. So that's about the first part.

Let me change completely gears and talk about an AI workforce. The AI workforce, it's about empowering our people to enhance the productivity. But we started a while back with an assistant. Back in 2022 -- actually, back in 2019, we started testing with OpenAI, some of the models that they had at that time, GPT-2 and GPT-3. They were really bad, and they were really promising at the same time. So we said this time this thing is going to improve so fast. We need to pay a lot of attention. We started investing. In '22, we released Toqan to everybody in our group. And in 2024, we made it agentic. And at this point in time, we are looking at how to introduce this AI workforce.

What are the results so far? It is used by 15,000 employees, 24,000 is the benchmark, if you want. So we are growing towards that point. 15,000, 16,000 use it 20 times per day, it means that they change the way they work. Toqan is like ChatGPT or Gemini and so on, but it is designed for us. It has access to our data. It knows the way we work, right? And those that are the super users, they create 1,500 versions of these tools for them, for their workflows, leading to this amount of hours reclaim.

There are 3 top use cases, software, customer support and market analytics. And one of the use cases that we use most, if not most, in any case, which is very common, it is data analytics. So if you think about this, everybody in your organization will love to have -- will need to have access to data, right? But not everybody in the organization can code or write SQL. So what we want is to give access to data in English. That's the data analyst. So how does this work? Well, if you go here, we need to choose a space, which means a specific colleague, and that colleague is this one. This colleague knows about food and it's going to give us answers about everything that has in database for food. Since part of that information proprietary, I'm going to ask something which doesn't have to be proprietary.

So let me ask this one, visualize the percentage, traffic -- oh, sorry, I'm not doing it. Visualize the percentage, traffic share of the top 5 food delivery companies, 5 food delivery companies in the U.S. over the last 12 months. All right. So the first thing it has to do, it has to go out in our data assets and needs to figure out which database do we even start looking at, right? And once they start looking at and finding the right databases, it figures out which tables and which columns. So the first thing after that, it interprets the 12 months. And then after it interpret the 12 months here, it says, well, "I've got full data until May is going to create the query and is going to execute that query." So the reason why this is interesting is because it gives access to everybody to data in English. So I have written something which is only English. I haven't asked anything.

So now it is doing a bunch of stuff out there. It might take a while because it has to do the calculations, but this is what it comes back with. So it's a diagram with the market share of these 5 companies. We use this a lot. We use it for acquisition, M&A, analyzing, let's say, performance of various organizations, analyzing our own performance. And what's important, you do it. I say if you can speak English or Portuguese, you can do it. So that's what makes a big difference.

Let's go back to the slides. Can I have the slides back, please? Anyway, I can anticipate what is going to happen next. We plan to use these tools and become our own helpers. Their own senior colleagues, which are AI employees, and we try. We plan to hire the largest AI workforce in the industry, AI data analysts, HR office, AI Excel expert and so on. And we'll do that before the end of this year. So if there are 3 things that I would love you to take back are these. The first one, we know how to create value with AI. We have prepared for this for years, and every 800 models do this every day. We are developing a unique foundation for next type of e-commerce, and we call it large commerce models. And the third one, we believe that the AI workforce is going to supercharge our productivity.

With that, thank you very much. I'm now going to leave the floor to Gustavo Vitti, and he's going to talk about our Prosus Way. Thank you.

Good morning, everyone. My name is Gustavo Vitti. I'm the Chief People Officer of Prosus, completing 1 year right now. I arrived together with Fabricio. Prior to that, I was the CPO for iFood since 2019 and 2020. I'm here to talk about and share more about the Prosus Way. Fabricio spoke a little bit about it. First time that our CPO is presenting here at CMD for Prosus. So I'm very excited to share more with you.

If there's one thing I wish everyone here can remember after my presentation, there are 3 things, in fact. The first one is we firmly believe that the right set of behaviors, which we call right now the Prosus Way are our secret recipe of success. The second thing is a strong culture can connect people and can connect our companies. Therefore, it enables our ecosystem strategy. And the third thing, it aims also to change people mindset from plus 10% increase to 10x increase. So let me bring you to this journey on how we crafted that, how we implemented that and some results and the next steps, okay?

So when you look for most great companies that are there for many years, including Prosus itself, they refresh themselves. They reinvented themselves or they reinvigorated themselves many times. When we look for Prosus, we started as a printed media and then we changed for something and then we change it again and then we change it again. And right now, we have this new strategy. So the Prosus Way is exactly this refresh we're having in our culture, reinvigorating a few behaviors and traits that we lost in the past and adding a few new recipes as well.

Moving along, how was this joined created? So first thing, we look internally for our companies and we benchmark it. Which companies we have in our portfolio that are succeeding for a very long period of time and how do they behave? We look at externally as well, what are the best companies out there that we really admire them. We put all of those behaviors in a [ cadre ]. We set together with the CEOs of the largest company we have in our portfolio, and we were polishing and crafting. Polishing and crafting in a way that is very simple and easy for our employees to understand. It's very, very actionable. And then we came with a culture tsunami across the company, communicating over and over again and embedding this on our mechanisms.

So the question is, what is the Prosus Way? Fabricio mentioned briefly, I'm going to spend 2 minutes here. But basically, it's a set of 5 behaviors that we firmly believe that if for employees, they have that, this is the blueprint for our future success. So the first one is entrepreneurship. We firmly believe that companies that are out there and they are creating lasting values, they have this entrepreneurial spirit, scrappy. People don't -- people are easy to work with an ambiguous environment. They're not looking for stability. They're dealing well with discomfort, which is a rare trait for human beings. The second thing is focus on results. You might be a great speaker, you might be very good at PowerPoint. You might come like in a very nice background, very great pedigree. But what really matters is your results. If you're a nice person, but you don't deliver results, you're going to be our friends, but it's going to be out there, not in the company.

Third thing is innovation. We want people to innovate regardless of the function that they are. We want people to innovate over and over again, and this creates a kind of a momentum for the company where everyone is innovating and they're not only innovating like trying to create a new plan, 6 months planning and then implementing something new. This is what we call idea implementation. Innovation is testing, failing, testing again, adjusting, iterating over and over and over again and being easy to talk about, okay, this is not working right now. But it's going to be working. It's going to be better in 3 months. It's going to be better in 6 months and having this confidence that innovation is there. When you combine results and innovation, this creates an ambidextrous organization, and this is what Prosus is all about right now.

The fourth value is people. We want people to be more comfortable in dealing with failures, success, collaborating, working together, sharing more information, and we want to have the best A players out there. And the last but not least, we want to make sure that our business, they're not only profitable, as you saw here, but we also are great society members on the communities we are around. We have a lot of drivers that depends on us. We have a lot of merchants that depend on us, a lot of customers and how can we use education to help them to get the best versions of themselves. So this is pretty much the Prosus Way.

And the next step is how do you bring this culture to life. Our brains when they are thinking about something, usually, we spend a lot of brain power to think about something and do something. So we thought about having some mechanisms and the right mechanisms that facilitate our leaders to really leave those value. Because in the end of the day, a culture is not what you have on the wall, but how your leaders behave in the organization. So we have 4 main mechanisms that we spend a lot of time and we put a lot of effort to make sure that they were solid, and they were easy for our leaders to follow and to implement and to leave them. I'm going to go in the next 6 slides, a little bit -- I'm going to deep diving in some of those initiatives that we implemented.

So the first one is ways of working. This is something that we took a lot of time and we put a lot of effort. If we want everybody to go in the same direction, you need to be clear with that. So we communicate that over and over and over again. So we have monthly fireside right now where we discuss what is going well, what is not going so well, what are the problems that we're facing, and we keep track of things that is -- that are our priorities right now. The second thing is something that we call strategy share. Strategy share is an event that we do with every single employee that we have in the company and the leadership of the companies in our portfolio. It happens twice a year, and we spend the whole day discussing what is our main priorities? Fabricio mentioned before, one slide with our main priorities. What are our main priorities, what is doing well, what is doing well? What do we learn in the last 6 months? What are our priorities for the next 6 months? What are the channels that we have and with a brutal transparency to all of our employees.

We also have the Prosus way awards, where we recognize and we celebrate people that really live our values because people are going to mimic that. This creates a ripple and lasting effect throughout the organization. We recognize, okay, I understand what is the kind of profile that we recognize inside of our organization. And also, we have the leadership summit where we put more than 50 CEOs of the companies in our portfolio and the companies that we invest altogether, not only to connect, but to talk about culture, to talk about innovation and to talk about AI.

And we improved our management model. Instead of having like a long period of time planning and then implementing for a year, what we did was we split it in 2 halves. And for 1 month, we discussed what are our priorities, what is -- what shouldn't be our priorities, what are the projects that are going to be dropping, what are the projects that are going to be investing 80% of our energy. And with that, we created a strategic map in one page, we have every single priority within the organization. And what we do with that, every month, we track the results. Every single initiative right now in the company, they have an owner, and this owner comes every month and say, this is what I did last month. This is what is working, this is not working and can be red, yellow or red. And this creates full accountability within the organization. We track that in a monthly results meeting, monthly operational meeting, monthly investment meeting. So we have a lot of discipline to make sure that the strategic that we discussed, it is being fully implemented and is on track.

We also help our employees to achieve their best version. We firmly believe that if our company wants to achieve a next level, our employees, they needed to achieve the next level as well. So we invested heavily in our employees' development with more than 100,000 -- sorry, 11,000 employees on our Prosus Academy, which is our online academy that we have within the organization. We brought 120 leaders to Stanford. Right now, next week, we're going to bring another 66 people to Stanford. In November, we're going to have another cohort. And Stanford is not only a nice place to go, but it's the source of a lot of the behaviors that we helped us to craft the Prosus Way. And those leaders, they not only go there to learn something, but they also connect each other in a meaningful way. So this is ways of working.

The next one is incentive. Once you are aligned on the direction to go, you need to make sure that your incentives are the tailwind for that. In other words, if we want to create an entrepreneurship spirit, our incentives needed to mimic. So in our incentives, they mimic value creation for employees, the same way that a shareholder and an investor, they create value as well. So it was a massive change, massive communication across all the companies in our portfolio, right? Our incentives are fully aligned with the behaviors that we want to recognize, and we want you to reemphasize.

The next one is how you recognize people. In a company, when people see other people being promoted, getting more recognition, they mimic themselves on that. And also, when you recognize someone or when you terminate someone, you're giving a company a message because culture is not only what you recognize. But also what you tolerate as well. So in the past, our performance review was more focused on what someone deliver. Right now, is what this person deliver, how it delivers as well in terms of culture and in terms of leadership as well. We changed completely our performance model, and this is what we have right now. And last but not least, if you want to create the best football team, you're not going to hire someone that is great in baseball and teach this person to play football. You're going to try to find the best football player. And right now, we launched it and developed the hiring the process way to support and help our leaders on the recruitment process to make sure that they bring people that are more aligned with our culture.

With those mechanisms, this is pretty much the cultural tsunami we have been over the last 12 months. And I think the next and fair question is, okay, how can we track results? Because all of this, this seems a little bit distracted. But we have a few data points that can prove that we're going to the right direction. And I'm going to bring 3 data points here. The first one is when we look for the engagement survey, which is, by the way, is not something that we develop internally, something that we have a third party to look to us, we were able to increase the engagement from 64% to whopping 87%. And this was -- sorry, there's something here on the slides here, the screen.

Yes. So the engagement score came from 64% to 69%, and we're now 87%. This 87% brings us closer to the top 10% best tech company to work for. And this is a message that we're receiving back from our employees saying, although we had all of these changes, this is still like a great place to work. This is an amazing place to work. When we look for clarity on the strategy and direction, we increased 10%. People right now, they have more clarity on what is our direction, where we should be going, what we should be prioritizing and also what we should be dropping as well. And last but not least, people are overly proud in working to Prosus. And with this, the results increasing from 86% to 94%. I'm not so sure if we're going to be able to check -- to adjust the screen here. But I will finish my remarks bringing something back that I mentioned in the beginning.

So right now, the Prosus Way for us is 3 things, again. The first thing is it's a set of behaviors and habits that our employees once they have, the whole organization have, and this is our competitive edge. The second thing is a strong culture is a glue between the people inside of the organization and also enables the ecosystem, enables our companies to collaborate better from each other and create this ecosystem feeling. And last but not least, we're moving people mindset from instead of increasing 10%, it's okay to increase 10%. We're looking for what are the things we're going to be doing right now that is going to bring us from 10% to 10x.

Thank you very much for your time. Apologies for the technical issue here. And I want to bring Fabricio, Euro and Eoin here for a Q&A session where I don't think we're going to need the screen anymore. Thank you.

Hello, everyone. I told you I would be back. Good that we don't have slides now. We would have many slides now, but we said, let's make a quick Q&A because the screen is not working.

I apologize about the screen, guys. It was my fault. On account of my paleness, I went too close to the screen and it knocked out, but it's due to be back. All right. So now into the Q&A session. We're going to...

Euro is going to come.

Euro -- he's doing another demo back there. Euro, anytime you like, we're not just...

Euro, take your time. We are here, but no problem. We can...

Chairman is here and everything, nobody is looking. So we are going to pass around the boxes. Please stand up, say who you are, speak close to the box, and we'll get to your questions. We have Fabricio, we will have Euro, and we have Vitti. Then we'll have a break, and then we'll go straight to the LATAM ecosystem where there'll be more time for Q&A there. So am I passing out the boxes or -- who's going to ask the first question? Without any further ado, it's Euro. Will kick us off.

We can't hear you. I think you are making a so difficult question, so we cut them out. But if you make a nice and sweet question, then we probably...

It's Will Packer from BNP Paribas Exane. So we've heard this morning about the creation of this lifestyle e-commerce offering, leveraging your data lake via AI to drive a differentiated consumer offering. Let's put China to one side with its very specific data rules. Isn't there an implication today that you need control of your assets to leverage the data? You need control over your assets to leverage the data. So for example, you've got some great assets in India, Meesho and Swiggy, but it would seem difficult to leverage the data from their assets with a minority position. Isn't the same true of OLX Brazil, where you need control to integrate it into your AI models? Or is that an incorrect perspective? And if not, shouldn't you just be partnering with lots of different data providers?

Will, thank you for the question. Many people make this question, can we do that if we don't control the company? And the answer is no, unless you are doing something good that creates value. Then you can do everything even if you have 20% or 30% of a company. So actually, the way I like to see it is a little different. If the company doesn't want to do it, even if you control the company, they should have the power to say, get away here, you're holding that just create problems to me. But if you are making new technology that make the company run better, it doesn't matter who controls the company. We start to here say we have a vision, we are going to grow with that. We are going to make things run better. If you have cutting-edge technology, if you have cutting-edge management model or culture -- you saw -- Vitti showing here is positive strategy share. There were 50 companies there. In many of them, we had 10% or 20% because it includes the ventures investments. They left the meeting saying, why don't you invite us to more events like that? And we have 10%. So the point here is, can we add value? What we are making is exceptionally good. If so, very good entrepreneurs should want to copy as soon as possible.

If what we are doing is exceptional and the entrepreneur doesn't want to copy, then we should sell that company or change the entrepreneur. So it doesn't matter if you control or not. Actually, I challenge you, if you are just doing things because you control the company are bad things, we should not be doing that. So we are doing fine and Meesho is an exceptional company. We copy things from Meesho because they are exceptional. And Meesho copy things from Prosus. So the point is not how much you own, it's how good you are.

Euro, would you add anything to that?

And in terms of some of those flagship stakes like Swiggy, Meesho, OLX Brazil, are they currently inputting their data into your e-commerce LLMs?

Not yet. But as much as they see value, they view in the future because we started in Latin America because Latin America has so much data about everyone. So that's the focus. Second one is India because also we have a very big ecosystem there, and we have PayU that is core to our strategy, but we are moving on that direction. And just a request for the organization. Since they have a mic, please turn them...

Yes. Please speak into the mic and please turn up the volume. We have a question over here.

Laura from Morgan Stanley. I just wanted to ask about the large commerce model. I found it really impressive. Where are you with the rollout of this model at the moment? How many of your customers are using the agents for food delivery? If you can give us a bit more details on where you are and what's the next steps, that would be great.

I think this is for Euro. But I just want to make one small comment. What you saw here is very fun because we are making questions, but it all happens automatically for hundreds of thousands of customers. We just find a nice way to show how they think.

That's absolutely the case. So what we have shown here is just let's assume that you do this very slowly, just one question at a time, right? But then everything we have seen, the models themselves, they are operating millions of times every minute in real time and obviously, no one touches them in the sense that it is the system that actually does that interaction with the model. But remind me again the question please.

Where is it rolled out currently?

So we started -- yes, so we started in Brazil at this moment. We started in -- that means for rolling out, that means in Sao Paulo. That's the first part where we go. From there, we are going to go to other cities gradually. And then it's going to be initially for Latin America initially for food, and then we start rolling with the other companies in Latin America. In parallel, we are initiating the same process with OLX, eMAG and so on. So that will come later on. I mean the idea of the LCM is going to be -- we believe it's going to be the operating system for e-commerce, right? And that means operating system for e-commerce for all our e-commerce. We start in food for many reasons, but it's just the place where we start. It's not the place where we tend.

Just to give you one more number. If I'm not wrong, the number is 1 million users in Sao Paulo using today. Our next intention is to move to 10 million in Sao Paulo anytime. I think it was last week. I'm not sure if it already did, and then the whole Brazil. So that's how we are progressing that. But this is so new. It started like 7 months ago should the technology be possible. So I guess more 6 months, we will be running in most of the place.

It's Monique Pollard here from Citi. I had a question for Gustavo, particularly around the incentives and the Prosus Way. So you talked about how you've changed some of the incentives, particularly for all the employees, so it's more aligned. But what are you doing to incentivize people within, I don't know, heads of the businesses to work together on the ecosystem? So are there specific incentives that aren't just about their business, but how their business interacts with others or the benefits that they can bring to other businesses? Just how do you kind of codify that?

It's a beautiful question. This is a Phase 2. We completed a Phase 1 right now, which is -- we want to make sure that our incentives, they really -- we distribute value to our employees when value distributed to our shareholders and investors as well. That was the first phase that we're doing right now. The second phase, which is our priority for the next 12 months is to make sure that not only you see this beautiful culture in the corporate or in the top leadership of the company, but this flows throughout all organizations. And then you can -- therefore, you can connect them. Once we get there, the next step will be exactly creating the incentives where companies they are incentivized to share value. They say, look, I'm not only interested on my own company, but how can I generate value in A, B or C company that are part of our ecosystem. So this is exactly what we're discussing right now and we're implementing as well.

And just a suggestion, we have here the famous Christian, Orkun is here. So talk to them also to see. The way I try to do it is I don't start asking people to give me things. I started saying how the holding can help you, how the central management can help you. So I try to give things to the company in terms of technology, culture model, investment. Then they should think the group is here to help. I think the big change to be the culture do is that everyone is working together. So our Board has the same objectives and are discussing the same things. I can see my Chairman here, thank you for coming. I have to say good things about the Chairman, too.

Then our C level is very aligned. This company CEOs, they meet all the time, really all the time. So we create a way of working that is everyone together and is reflecting the incentives. There's another phase of the incentive that is going to be launched in 1 month that makes -- it's also like a financial benefit for everyone to cooperate. Anyway, ask them and see what they think about that. If they say something bad, let me know.

I'm Maddy Singh from HSBC. My question is on your comment about becoming the largest consumer Internet company in Europe. So if you could contextualize that with regard to the regulatory environment in Europe. Do you think given the tough regulatory environment here, whether that is still okay for you to work with this? Or what challenges you think would pose this compared to your other markets to achieve that ambition here? And just second part related to the question is also with your AI integration, how easy is to use the data sets within Europe for you to develop your AI or you are totally dependent on other markets for that?

There's 2 questions there, Maddy. The first is how do you -- how have you found navigating the regulatory environment in Europe? And then the second is data sharing of users' information within Europe.

Good. I make a lot. I think the things are totally on to the other side. So that's why I'm not hearing you well or I'm getting old, maybe I don't know. But let me tell you a good thing. 6 months ago, I made a lot of critics to Europe. I said the Europe mindset is a problem because Europe wants to block big tech at all costs. And I think Europe is failing because they are blocking local big techs, but the big techs of other places of the world are selling here to Europe. So what are they achieving? If they just block the local companies to grow, but the other global companies are becoming global leaders. So I criticized that a lot, this wrong mindset in my opinion.

We want to make it different. We want to have a $200 billion European company. The good news, and I'm happy about that is that the last 2 months or 1.5 months, working with the European Commission authorities was very good in terms of speed. So -- I told you many times, it's tech, the players are competing. We have $100 billion player from U.S., another one from China. If you take 2 years in this process, we already lost. That's the reality. So when we announced the JET deal, I said my biggest risk today is how much time it will take. 2 years? It's too much. The last 2 months was very good. We filled the process this week before the expected time. And I was happy because every time we send 100 page, they read everything very fast and they make more 100 questions and later we read very fast and we answer back. So you see, I see momentum on Europe thinking that we have to move faster to have also local leaders. So I'm optimistic, but let's see because we feel it like 3 days ago. Now we have to wait for the answer, but they said it's going to be quick again. So I have to wait, I think, a few weeks, but it's more or less fast.

And the second question was on data privacy and how we navigate that through Europe.

Well, it's -- so the old way of doing things is that if you want to do something like the LCM in the past, you had to aggregate all data in one place and then you train for that one. The beauty about these tools is that you don't have to do that in the sense that you can -- the model itself doesn't contain private data. It contains the patterns that link certain behavior to certain outcomes, and it doesn't have to have the identity of those behaviors. So that means that once it has been trained, it can move, right? It can be incremented. It can be, let's say, trained more on other data. So that's the key thing.

Then of course, in the places where you can have data in one place, you can train probably deeper, but it doesn't mean you cannot do anything else elsewhere. So the example that I've shown is that the model understands events of Sympla -- potential of Sympla in this case, from data that has been trained for iFood. That's because the technology enables that. It reads beyond its immediate boundary of what it has been trained. So that also means that if you don't have the data, it still has value. So we have to think about this something that is not predicated on sharing data. It is predicated on sharing learnings from data.

An example I'd like to give on this subject is a large language model. It can explain you about a book, but it doesn't have the whole book there that with all their data. So we can learn that users that like salmon, they also like Jazz, I don't know if that was your example. We don't need to know that, that user and that's -- the important thing is the learning. That's what we are doing that is interesting. We are using reasoning technology. That's the same one that we discussed in the last language models to learn how people behave, but necessary that person. We are learning how everyone behave, then we can probably serve them better. So we think we are going to comply. We are a big company. So we have to comply with all local laws, obviously.

A note on Europe. Europe overregulates. So in local laws related to sustainability and to AI, the laws in Europe are more difficult than all around the world. I like very much privacy and sustainability. I talk a lot about that. But if you put more work on us than in every country in the world, it's bad. That said, I believe we can -- so I'm still saying Europe should be more flexible, but we can -- and we will work in a way to get the learnings compliant with all local laws.

Silvia, you had a question? Please speak into the box where I can...

It's Silvia Cuneo from Deutsche Bank. I have a question on the user interface, very insightful demo from Euro. Just curious about how should we think about users potentially using like a WhatsApp interface rather than your own apps? How does this change the way you have insights into the consumers' engagements on your applications? And do you see this as a switch across countries or just in specific markets for specific apps?

So she was talking about the different consumer interfaces, right, and whether you glean different information from a WhatsApp versus going directly to text or something like that.

So there are tons of questions in that question, right? And assuming that you translate it correctly. But anyway, so first of all, the premise of using agents and large commerce models because we assume that the way we are going to look at interfaces going forward is going to be different from the way we look at interfaces 20 years ago, when we started all this. So the main interfaces now are the browser, the applications, of course, and mobile, right? But there's no reason for that to be the case, right? In the sense, every surface, which is digital, is an interface.

So the first thing is, so let's go to something which is pure communication, like the WhatsApp. WhatsApp is so popular. So it should be -- obviously, it should be one of the e-commerce platforms for there. Then generation -- entire generation is now getting used to voice. They just continuously message and use voice. The application that you have in your hands should give you an idea where voice is at this moment in the sense that 1 year ago, it was hard to make it work properly, and now it picks up accents. It understands to say, nuances, it is very reliant. So fine, if that's the case, then voice is going to be a viable one.

But then why shouldn't you actually buy things when you're in the car? It's the same thing. You have these glasses and you see something you want, why you don't do that. These kind of things have been there a possibility for a long time. You couldn't really act on them because you didn't really have the tools, you didn't have the technology for that. We get to the point in which one by one, these technologies are sufficiently good to enable all this. So I think that in the next 1, 2, 3 years, relatively short, you will have a transformation of the user interface.

Great. A quick note on that. The demo that Euro was supposed to show here today was a little bigger, but I think you reduced it because of time. You told me today morning. But we show -- our intention was to show the whole process. So it can start in the iFood app. So you can make an order, you know it's you, then there is like a floating balloon, just like you have like in the WhatsApp and you can say, let's keep talking on WhatsApp. So you can start talking on iFood and say, keep talking there, then we talk on WhatsApp and we keep the conversation on WhatsApp. So it's a nice way to say, I have the iFood, I believe on that.

We don't want to transform the whole world in ChatGPT because it's not the best interface. But you can start on -- not on iFood because it is the best interface to order. Then just keep talking on WhatsApp. Then if your order is late, you can -- not in the iFood case, your order is never late in iFood. But hypothetically, your order is too soon, but this is more possible. And then you just can get the WhatsApp and talk by voice, the way I think you use the voice. You can just say, quite arrived too early. I'm not ready to get the order and then it interacts with you. So that was the full interface he was doing.

Just so you know, we test a lot. So we did a lot, 10 or 15 tests of just dropping all the visual interface. And pure voice is not good -- it's not exceptional. So the thing is app, voice and text also on WhatsApp. We are doing everything. And Euro, as he said, the interfaces are going to evolve. We're already testing the next interface, for example, glass or things like that or other interface that hopefully, we will be able to launch first and learn first.

All right. We're going to have to leave it there. It's now break time. So please stretch your legs. The bathrooms are over there. The refreshments are right here. The execs are here. They're going to be walking. You can talk to them. We'll have -- come back at 11:20, and we will be coming back for the LATAM ecosystem with Diego, who's going to bring the flare and he doesn't need a screen. Even if we don't get the screen back, he's going to go a capella. So thank you very much.

Thank you.

Thank you.

[Break]

Hello, hello. How are you, everybody? Nice to meet you. My name is Diego. I'm from Brazil, as you can see in my accent. It's a big pleasure to be here with you. It's the first time I'm here talking directly to the investors of Prosus, which is for me, it's a big honor. I've been in the group for 8 years. I've been part of this story for 8 years, starting in Movile with Fabricio 8 years ago, then moving to iFood, and I've been also part of the LatAm ecosystem that Prosus has in the continent. I'm heading this since the last 3 months.

Thanks very much for joining. I hope everybody enjoys. The whole idea here is to talk about how we are envisioning everything in the ecosystem, then double-click looking the assets that we already have, the most prominent ones, double-click looking at iFood and then going to Despegar. After this, we're going to have a nice conversation here, and Eoin will host a nice Q&A involving everybody here.

Okay. So let's move. As you can see, technology is working very well. So my whole challenge here is to make you dream about the slides that we made, but you'll never be able to see it. Okay. So the first idea here that I want to tell to you is when we look to the past, Prosus already had good assets in the region. I'm talking here about Latin America. The whole point is that those assets, they were managed independently. And when I say managed, don't think about like a very hierarchical thing. I mean I'm not saying, oh, Diego just managed this because he's the CEO and the other guy -- I'm talking about managing the entire portfolio, the entire ecosystem. The level of collaboration was low. In the end, we were not able to extract the value that we can do because we can collaborate.

What we did during the last year is to start this movement. So we started to talk more, we started to understand more what everybody is doing, the more I understand about them, the more I can challenge what they're doing. Of course, I'm not the specialist, but I have good assumptions to understand and make questions about the performance, about the strategy and so on and so forth. Also during the last year, we were able to set up things that we believe are very important to disrupt. And 2 things that we're going to -- I'm going to also mention here during the presentation is, first, culture. Fabricio already talked about this, Vitti also; and management model. The way we communicate in our company, it's what makes things easy to come from one place to another and give agility and define pace. And that's something that we work hard. So we came from assets that were far from each other and now we have assets that starts to speak the same language, assets that understand what the others are doing, and therefore, collaboration comes in a very organic way.

Now we are going to a next step. And this next step is what we call ecosystem. It's what Fabricio already mentioned here. This next step basically means how do I make these assets that now collaborate quite well, also have a certain level of integration that allow me in the end to extract more and more value. And make no mistake, when I say integration, I'm not talking about like the old concept of having an M&A and integrating the back office to save $10 million per year. That's not what I'm talking about. What I'm talking about is to integrate what really creates value. So Euro already comes here and said, okay, see these beautiful things that we are building regarding AI. Oh, so integrating databases makes sense. Integrating the system of the procurement team doesn't make sense at this stage.

So that's the next step that we are doing now. So we are getting the assets that were separated. We gave them the same rhythm, the same base. And now we are bringing together them through the integration of things that make sense. And that's what we're going to explore here. You could say, oh, Diego, but, I mean, that's just a PowerPoint. Actually, that's not just a PowerPoint. That's more or less what we're already doing at iFood throughout the time, and I'm going to go into details.

But also in the region, we have another good example of this. MeLi, MercadoLibre. MercadoLibre did exactly this. Of course, they didn't do through separate companies. But in the end, when you take a look on the different business units that they have, what they are doing is that. They're getting a lot of different business. They are integrating, for example, the database and are being able to leverage everything in order to create a company that have the same amount of customers that Prosus ecosystem has, the same amount. But they are able to extract much more value if you think that value is EBITDA. In terms of EBITDA, if you think that revenue is what is value, they are being able. If you think that valuation is what is value, they have been able. And why? Because this huge level of integration allows you to go further in value extraction. So there is already an example, which is iFood. There is another example, which is MercadoLibre. And that's how exactly we are trying to do things now.

So let me talk a little bit about iFood and how we've been doing that throughout the time. At iFood, basically, what we did is we built a vision that we could, at a certain point, be the main choice of a person that needs to solve a problem that needs to look for a service on an ongoing basis, meaning every day, every week, every month. So what we are talking here, it's about convenience. What we are talking here, it's about lifestyle. It's about your routine. So we are not building a company that will not touch these aspects.

How did we start that? Through food delivery? Why food delivery? It's simple. It's because it's the category with the highest level of frequency. So the more I touch the client on a monthly basis, the more I'm able to bring him for another experience. That's what we did. So we started everything doing that.

The second movement we did once we consolidated, once we reached everything that we believed in the food delivery, it's to move to the natural adjacencies. So we went to supermarkets, then we went to pharmacy, then we went to beverage and convenience, then we went to pet. And the more we go, the more we are bringing frequency to the ecosystem. What's the beauty of this? The more I bring frequency to the ecosystem, the more I make my logistics, which is my main asset, more efficient.

So why you are doing this, Diego? It's just because the PowerPoint said that's the vision? No, no, no. It's because when you think about food delivery, that's the behavior of your sales on a day, right? You have the lunch, you have the dinner. The other categories fills up this moment here where I don't have strong demand and therefore, my logistics is not efficient. So there's a reason for this. So as soon as we are able also to optimize logistics, I start to become stronger to coordinate the entire [Audio Gap] concentrated with the traditional banks. We are able today to have more accounts. We are able today to lend more money. We are able today to do more payment services than any traditional bank to the restaurants in Brazil. So that's how you build an ecosystem, that's how you optimize certain aspects such as logistics. And that's how you start to coordinate the value chain. What I mean by coordinate same rationale.

Other assets that are very important here. First one, Despegar. I'll not talk too much about Despegar right now because Gonzalo is my Argentinian friend, which should not be true because Brazilians and Argentinians are not friend, but I'm considering this as a new normal. So Gonzalo, my Argentinian friend will come here also to talk about Despegar. So I'm not going into details. You already have too much information about Despegar when we announced the deal a couple of months ago. But basically, what I can say in a nutshell is it's a company that is growing. It's a company that is profitable. It's a company with a very strong brand, but it's a company, actually not a company. It's a business model that have something that is not beautiful. And that's the reality. That's the transparency. That's it's what about -- when you say face the brutal facts, that's what we mean. tell the reality.

And the reality is the OTA business has a low frequency, low retention. That's the reality. But then the ecosystem comes to play. Okay, if I, from iFood, see you ordering food in a city that's not where you live and I know where you live, you traveled. Did you buy from Despegar? Checking the database, no, you didn't. I have an insight. Why not? And then you may say, what do you do with that information? And then you go back to iFood and you say, oh, iFood has the largest and most successful loyalty program in Brazil. So why don't we integrate iFood and Despegar in the loyalty program and make the consumers of iFood, we are talking about 60 million a year, active consumers a year, also consider Despegar to buy.

So take that person that travel and didn't buy from Despegar and understand better what the model that Euro showed here and try to understand why he didn't buy, maybe because he's not a rich person. He's a poor person. Therefore, maybe he didn't travel by plane, maybe by bus, but Despegar doesn't give you the chance to buy tickets to travel by bus. Why not if the database shows me there are 10 million people that buy iFood that are in the loyalty program and that may consider. So that's the rationale, for example, that we're bringing to Despegar.

When you think about Sympla, which is our ticketing online platform, you can think about even Bright in the United States as a good proxy. Sympla is the same. Sympla gives me more if I have to do something with you or not, changes everything. Let me tell you one thing. Push, which was something invented a few years ago, was like amazing until a person discovered one day that more and more people like us go there and block and say, I don't want to get [ pushes ] anymore. So push is strategy, and that's a very tactical example that I'm giving to you gives you the ability, the ecosystem gives you the ability to enhance the efficiency of this strategy that changes the way you can grow. So Sympla also gives me this.

Let me give you another example of Sympla. In [Audio Gap] the more the more you know this, the more the transparency allows you to understand what can be the best strategy for it. I'm going to give you one example when we are talking about the Despegar and iFood integration.

And finally, there is OLX as well. So OLX gives me another perspective. OLX, for example, gives me the idea of how much a person is sensitive to price. The more you resell things, the more you have a certain behavior compared to people that just give away. And this changes completely the way I approach the person regarding the offering, for example, at iFood or even Despegar, a person that prefers a flight or a bus. So the whole capacity to bring these assets together and for the sake of Euro's presence here, integrate the database and allow this database, make the LCM stronger for me to understand which decision to take. The more I have this, the more I really can understand the right decision to make this company grow more. So that's the entire idea that we have for the Prosus LatAm ecosystem.

What I'm going to do right now is double-click and go into iFood, talk about 5 minutes to 10 minutes. And then I'm going to ask for Gonzalo to come here to talk a little bit about Despegar. So let me tell you a few things about iFood. So first of all, iFood, it's a case where we see through all the time the capacity to grow and also to deliver profitability. How do we do that? It's very simple. We do that through culture and management model.

So I agree with Fabricio. I mean, I've been down the road for many years. I worked with the capital markets like for more than a decade, road shows, non-roadshows, so on and so forth throughout the world. And generally speaking, nobody asked about these things. But the point is these are the things that makes the change. And why? Because a company is not defined by one invention that you had. A company is defined by the capacity that you have to keep inventing yourself through all the time. So think about iFood. The way we started, it's not through how most of you think like an app. Actually, we start setting up a call center with like people getting calls. And on the other hand, printing books that were a collection of menus. So we went to the condos and delivered the menus to people. So people instead of calling straight to a restaurant and asking, "Oh, do you have Margarita pizza? Oh, it's with onion or without onion. And having these weird conversations that we used to have like 10, 20 years ago, we solved this problem with print and books and also having the call centers.

Then we evolved from this to the Internet, then the Internet to the app. Then when Android came, we said, okay, now I can go to logistics because the employees can have the chance to work from their hands. And then we went to logistics. And then we went to supermarket, which is tough. You know why? Because the capacity to integrate the brick-and-mortar operations of the traditional chains plus reinvent my logistics because it's cool.

Now we have -- see, that's AI. That's AI. So AI was listening me and now everything that you will see -- let me go back here to this slide, everything that you will see -- I didn't see these slides. Everything that you're going to see actually AI did. Euro just put in his model, and now I will have to look to these slides to understand what AI wants me to say. So when you look at the story of iFood, what you will see is this company with the capacity to change. I mean if you think about the supermarket delivery, it's a completely different logistics. I'm not talking about the same guy with a motorcycle delivering. It's a different bag, it's a different actually model as well because we also have, for example, the cars doing the delivery and so on and so forth, totally different.

When you go to pharmacy, it's again a totally different thing. So just to give an example, yesterday, we released in Brazil for the first time, the integration of our pharmacy business with digital prescription, which, by the way, it's a company invested by Prosus Ventures and is part of our LatAm ecosystem. So now people that have a prescription and can only buy delivering the prescription to the pharmacy can buy online for the first time. You go to iFood, you order, there's a way where you insert digitally your prescription and you can order. And for the first time yesterday, medicine that demands a prescription was done digitally by iFood for the first time in Brazil.

And what is this? Again, is our capacity to innovate. So when people ask me, "Oh, can you continue to grow or to deliver profitability?" I will say, "I will always have challenge." And one day or another, I will do like this because I'm not going to be able to do it. But I completely have faith that we're going to be able to do that, as you can see here. And why? Because I have culture and management model. It's not because Diego is great or Fabricio was great. It's not because of one person. It's because the entire company moves towards a direction in a certain pace that is ours. It's not -- it doesn't come from one person or from another thing. It belongs to us. So that -- this story, it's what we will keep repeating.

Another thing that we were able to do, and that's like for me, it's one of the things that I have like more proud. It's being recognized as the most loved brand. And maybe you may say, okay, that's just branding. You put money there, you bring great agencies and people will deliver great videos and everybody -- it's not about this. First of all, I don't have the largest branding budget in Brazil. That's the first thing. Second thing, I dare you to find another, let me say, food delivery company that were able to be loved in their country in that standard. That's a business where people generally don't like you. There's a huge debate towards labor regulation. There's a huge debate about transport, about the impact in the cities. Most companies in the world are not loved because this business model is still being in development by the society, by the way you align all stakeholders around the concept.

So being here since 2022, it's something that is really -- I mean, make us like very happy because that's a way for us to understand that we are building a sustainable business. So it's not about the brand. It's about what is behind. If most of the people in the country saying, that's the most loved brand, it's because most of the people are understanding more and more all aspects of my business, and that is tough.

As I mentioned to you, when we started this business, the whole idea was to grow frequency. But there is one dilemma in the beginning. Should I grow like hell to have all the customers in my ecosystem? Or should I focus on frequency. And the decision 5, 6, 7 years ago was to focus on client acquisition. So as you can see, we tried to do as much as we could to acquire every single Brazilian. If you think about that currently, we have 60 million active users in our ecosystem on an annual basis. If you think that Brazil has 210 million people, 40% of the population, unfortunately, is very poor. And people basically ask in their homes, generally speaking, one person asks and the other don't. So one person represents the family or the couple and et cetera. Actually, we acquired already 80%, 90% of the customers in Brazil.

So at that point in time, you may say, okay, so the company will stop to grow. And that's not what happened. Why? Because we are building the ecosystem that looks to frequency. So we didn't grow frequency here because we acquired new cohorts that starts with a lower frequency. But then we started to bring more and more people in that understands the business, understands the offering, understands how we can impact the convenience of their lives, then they understand, pharmacy, they understand, supermarket, they understand, pet -- and they start to evolve throughout the ecosystem. An ecosystem that is not only looking to the consumer, but also is looking to the restaurant at this point in time, only to the restaurant, not to the other merchants. So focus is another thing that we like a lot, even though today, you may say focus, but remember, it's already like years down the road building this. But we like focus a lot. At that point -- at this point in time, the focus on the B2B side, it's the restaurant. And when I say the restaurant means ERP systems.

So think about Toast. So it's the same, just a way for you to simplify the rationale here. So think about Toast. So we go from ERP to kiosks where you can go and order. And all of this is linked with our fintech that process the payment and also because we have this information, not only on this side, but also on this side where I can see how much this restaurant sells, how profitable he is, how is his growth rate, how is the customer satisfaction and so on and so forth. I can organize all this data and through an algorithm, provide credit.

Just to tell you one thing, the best delinquency rate in this segment in Brazil belongs to us. Why? Because there is an algorithm that basically use machine learning to understand if the restaurant has a potential to churn or not. So see, I'm not talking credit about looking financial metrics. I'm talking about churn. If the restaurant churns, there is a chance of him not paying me anymore. If the restaurant doesn't churn, why he would screw with the main sales channel that he has. It doesn't make any sense. So if he has 2 loans, one with me, one with the other bank, he will be full here and not here. So that's the concept of ecosystem. That's the concept where everybody starts to understand the beauty of behaving well in the ecosystem and therefore, making the ecosystem stronger.

Moving forward, that's how everything that I told you translates into growth. So what you can see here, it's basically the business that we built throughout the time growing. So there's the food delivery marketplace. There is the logistics business. There is the other categories. There is the dining, which is this ERP, kiosks, payments, offline payments, strategy. And that's how we built -- and also the fintech, of course, that's how we build throughout the time this. All of them growing, all of them reaching good levels of profitability, all of them more importantly, making merchants transact much more, consumers transact much more and riders transact with us much more, make more money throughout the time and decide to stay in the platform.

And when we look to the marketplace business, let me call this, all the adjacencies where the consumers interact and order for their convenience, what we can see as well that there is a huge opportunity in the market. So when we look, for example, to these ones here, they are still very, very underpenetrated. We see like a huge potential to grow in the pharmacy space, for example. The more we are now being able to shape the regulation in Brazil and allowing a journey that has less friction, the more we are seeing retention rates going up. And the more this business is becoming very interesting. And when we look to the restaurant space, we are now going to a new phase, a phase where there is an integration between the online and offline space. And this opens a huge opportunity for us that I'm going to show you how showing the product in a few slides afterwards.

Moving forward, we're still seeing the early days of iFood Pago. iFood Pago is our fintech. We basically already have the assets ready to allow us to keep growing, allow us to have a good profitability and also to manage risk very well. So we not only have the credit for supply, but also credit for growth for the restaurants. We have already the digital account. So 80% of the restaurants already have their digital account with us, and they are switching from the traditional banks to us. And we're already increasing penetrating more and more of the payments. We already do 80% of the payments of all transactions that happen in our ecosystem.

We have unique assets here, and that's something that is quite important. I'm not fighting here in the open market. I'm not fighting here with people that believe that their algorithms are better or worse than mine. It's not about this. It's about, first, having a data that changes everything the way you price, the way you understand risk. I have the sellout data. I know if the consumer likes you, if he will come back to you, if they are demanding more shifts from you, which means increasing our sales. I know exactly if the chance of you to succeed versus the other pizzeria in the close neighborhood. I know everything about this, and that changes everything compared to a bank that just give credit.

Second, I have the money in. The money is with me. I process the payment. I have the money. If I have a problem, part of my risk, I can reduce with the money that I have.

Third, I have the principality. The example that I gave to you. If you have to default between 2 banks, I'm not your first choice. Why? Because I sell. I not only give you the credit, but I sell. If you have to have a problem in discussing your delinquency rate, it's better to discuss with somebody that doesn't have other touch points with you.

And fourth, I have the sellers. I don't have to prospect them just to give the credit. I can just offer the credit because I already have them due to my relationship.

And finally, these are the numbers. They are growing, but much more important here, they are growing in a very sustainable way. It's a positive cash flow business. It's -- there's a great delinquency rate. The returns, the way that we measure this has an ROI that is like very good, and we will keep investing here. The whole idea here is not to have the fintech as a sole asset, but it's to have a fintech as something that is part of something bigger.

We also have what I told you that will link the online to the offline. And we call this Maquinona, which means the big machine in English. So what is this? You may look at this and say, okay, this is a POS, right? So that's where you get to a credit card and swipe a card and say, okay, I paid. That's wrong. That's what you generally see. What we have here is, yes, a traditional POS, but we embarked a software. And this software, every time that you swipe your card or put your telephone number, this software goes back to my database and says, I know who is this guy. So this guy lives close to here, work there and the restaurant is here. Every time that he's at his home, he orders online in our restaurant. But every time that he's working here, he never comes to your restaurant.

There's a great opportunity here. So what's the opportunity? The guy loves you. He already orders, but he never comes. Maybe he doesn't know that it's close, maybe he doesn't know it's you. Maybe he just didn't change the behavior. So instead of keep sending promotions online, send offline. So that's the rationale behind. So the software just said -- just says because you set up a rule, that's what we're going to do. So you swipe your card and instantly, you get a cash back that says, if you come back here next week, I give you 10% discount. You may say, "Diego, but this is just a cash back". It's not just a cash back. It's a cash back to the person that needs that cash back.

Same rationale. You go to a restaurant, you swipe your card and you say -- software thinks. Okay. So this person doesn't live in the city. Don't do anything with him. Don't give a cash back. He doesn't live here. He doesn't need that. Or there's another aspect. You go there 10 times, don't give promotions to him. He likes you. He loves you. He likes the price. He likes the food. He has the behavior. Don't give a penny to him. So that's now how we are generating traffic to the offline space. And that's what restaurants are getting amazed.

We just finished all the tests back here in September. And since September, we did our go-live. And that's the result so far. We're already transacting BRL 100 million per month, and this number will keep going. The problem today is that we don't have enough capacity here to deliver more POS. We'll keep doing. But of course, there's a physical limit here with the partners that we have.

Moving forward here, we also have our kiosks that does the same. So you may say it's just a kiosk, it's not just a kiosk. You swipe our card here, and he does the same. And even more importantly, I'm going to talk the next or actually 2 slides -- in 2 slides about our ads business. It's also ads business. I know exactly who is he. I swipe my card. I like Coca or Pepsi. I like Coca. Pepsi can say, okay, you have to offer something to this guy here. It's different. It's not only a kiosk. I have the data to make retail business. That's not what we are envisioning. That's a reality for us.

And that's why in the offline space, we have been able to close the entire demands of the restaurants. You can see the financial service, iFood Shop, which is our B2B platform that sells for the restaurant inventory, the CRM and POS that I just mentioned to you and also the logistics. We are growing very fast in numbers in terms of orders in the dine-in. As you can see here from 1 year to another, it was a 15x growth. Of course, we're not going to grow 15x every single year, but this business will keep growing. And every time that we grow here, we fuel the -- especially the fintech business.

And as I mentioned, we also have a great business here that is growing very fast and being very relevant, that is the ads business. So I just broke here in 3 pieces. The first one is the food delivery ads top placement. And in this business, we already have 1% penetration in terms of the GMV. When you look to the grocery business, we already penetrated 2.2%. And when we look to the investments in the platform that we manage for the restaurants, their ads for the restaurant, we already have 5%. And this sums and gives you 6.5% penetration. What is that? It's basically capacity of ads that I have. And as soon as I have this ecosystem working, the more I understand the consumer, the more I can make the ROE work for the restaurant and not only restaurants, but also to the FMCG companies, to drugstore chains, supermarket chains and so on and so forth. The more I'm able to do that to deliver this ROI, the more I'm able to make these guys keep investing in the platform.

I could also talk here about AI. I will not take too much time about this. But what is important for you is first, we're not talking about AI here because now it's the frenzy. We do that since 2018. We've been working with Euro and his team here since 2018 in iFood. We already have 174 proprietary AI models that are live and runs the operation of iFood. Currently, we do 14 billion predictions per month. And we already have wrappings, which means integrating the capacity of an algorithm with a third party such as OpenAI in more than 30 examples.

The next frontier is the agentic bots as Euro showed here. The first phase of ourselves was to do 2 things: Reduce costs, as you can see here, that's the example of the acquisition cost that we decreased it by 20%, 30%; and also to increase the experience. Currently, 90% of the tickets in the CEx, in the customer experience department is managed by an AI algorithm with NPS higher than when a human does. So it's been like that was the first phase. The second phase, it's exactly what Euro said before, and we're going to invest heavily on this.

I talked briefly about our loyalty program. It's important to say here how we are moving from a transactional loyalty program to a loyalty program that really delivers loyalty. So there's a difference between just giving discounts and really making somebody saying, I'm going there because it makes sense like Amazon did in U.S.

So here's a good example. Currently, 13 million people already pays a monthly subscription for -- to be part of Clube. Clube is the name of the loyalty program. So Clube is basically a program that started with food delivery. And since last September, we started to evolve to other categories. Since September, the growth of pharmacy, the growth of beverages and growth of groceries are the biggest in our lifetime. Why? Because Clube is being able to make -- think about iFood when they decide to go to shop. That's the beauty of this. And Clube will keep evolving. We will keep doing things to maintain this capacity to increase the orders. So that's the number of orders that we do from Clube, from clients that are using the loyalty program order at iFood.

And also, as I mentioned to you, that's -- I didn't remember that this was here. So as I mentioned to you, we launched it here in September, see the impact that Clube is already having in these verticals. More and more, we're going to give the capacity. If you ask me, how does it work? Does it make money? It does make money. Does it grow? Yes, does it grow? How does it work? I have to show you 3 algorithms of AI to explain how does it work. It's not about a linear relationship that you do in a software that makes everything work, grow, create loyalty and at the same time, gives you profitability.

And also, we announced 2 months ago the partnership with Uber, and that's also the idea of building an ecosystem. An ecosystem doesn't mean that we're going to acquire every company. An ecosystem means that we're going to acquire companies. We're going to develop business, but also we're going to have real partnerships. I'm not talking about this like piece of paper, commercial partnerships where you just sign something that lasts for 3, 6, 7 months. It's not about this. The tech teams are working hard to make an integration that will -- the best integration in the world. You will not need to sign in to use Uber at iFood and you will not need to sign in at Uber when using Uber at -- I'm sorry, let me repeat this. You don't need to sign in at Uber while using inside iFood and vice versa. It's going to be something magical where you just enter and you can order and they know you, and they know your payment preference, and they know you your cash backing in the order platform and so on and so forth. And this opens a lot of possibilities to us.

So we're going to discuss the integration of the loyalty programs. That's the next step. We're going to discuss partnerships around the logistics because there are many, many synergies between both companies. Don't forget that Uber has its fastest business in Brazil, not in the right rating, but on the motor rating, which means the same person, the same vehicle that does most of our deliveries. So there is a huge opportunity for us to look for synergies, especially in terms of synergy when I talk about logistics.

So that's another thing that we're going to do. The whole idea here is we got our information, we sent to a third party. They got their information sent to the same third party. They cross-check the data, and the results were astonishing. There's a minimal overlap between our database. We didn't imagine that, not myself, not Dara, when we talked about for the first time about this, both of us said, okay, we know it's not going to work, right? Yes, but let's try. That's how we're do in tech. Let's try. I can be wrong. I was wrong.

So the point in the end is there's a huge chunk of people for me to acquire, and there's a huge chunk of people for Uber to acquire as well. And this gives us the ability to not only have what we have on our side, the Clube, but also extend that to something much more powerful for the consumer. When we bring Uber there on the mobility space, we bring Sympla, Despegar, OLX, and we bring many other assets that enhances the value proposition of not being a transactional program, but being a loyalty program.

And now I want to call here -- where is Gonzalo. Gonzalo, please come here and join me for us to start to talk a little bit about the exciting things we are doing in Despegar. He's not here. Gonzalo disappeared. Gonzalo is here. Welcome Gonzalo. For you that loves soccer, Gonzalo supports River Plate in Argentina and was in U.S. cheering for River Plate in the World Cup. Unfortunately, Brazil, we win again, Gonzalo. But anyway.

It's okay. It's okay. We are just World Champions, it's fine. Thank you, Diego. And thank you. Hello, everyone, and it's great to be here today and tell you all how excited everyone at Despegar is of joining Prosus and probably more importantly, to partner with iFood in developing and growing the Latin American ecosystem.

So what is Despegar. Despegar actually has a story that is quite similar to iFood in the fact that Despegar has been leveraging technology to transform commerce, in our case, the travel industry. And Despegar was founded in 1999 in Argentina, and it had a first phase of growth that was expanding geographically across the region. When that finished, the next stage came by introducing all possible travel verticals. Basically, we had hotels, packages, car rentals, vacation rentals, insurance, everything, everything. We had everything you name, whatever travel product out there, we put it on the platform. And that led us 8 years ago to an IPO in the New York Stock Exchange that triggered yet another phase of growth that came by consolidating the industry through several acquisitions across the region, in Brazil, in Mexico, Andean countries. We went out and started to consolidate the industry. And that led us now to the merger with Prosus, which for us is another opportunity for growth by leveraging the ecosystem and with this partnership with iFood.

So what is Despegar today? Despegar is the #1 travel company in the region. We have over $5.5 billion of gross bookings every year transacting through our platforms, transactions that generate almost $800 million of revenues every year, $175 million of EBITDA we had last year. And we have a very nicely diversified geographical footprint, especially important in a region that is sometimes relatively volatile in individual markets. And probably more importantly, we have a very healthy mix of non-air products that in the travel industry means much higher revenue per order.

So what does it mean? And why is it that we are so happy and so excited to be joining Prosus now is because we believe that we are in a very strong starting point to join Prosus to partner with iFood and to leverage the ecosystem for further growth.

I can tell Gonzalo a little, a few things here to all of you on how we are doing that. And it's -- and this is something important to tell you how these things happen in our kitchen. Of course, when you are doing an M&A and investment, you have your Excel spreadsheet where you put a lot of assumptions, you try to understand what can work, what cannot. But as soon as you close this because that's what you decided, the whole point, it's not look to the Excel spreadsheet anymore. The whole point is to get everything that you want and say, I'm going to test like hell. 99% of the things will fail. Right, Gonzalo? 99% will fail.

But the point is every 1% that fails, you get knowledge. Oh, the consumer prefer this, prefers that. Oh, the hotel doesn't like this, doesn't like that. Oh, it doesn't work for Despegar, but it works for iFood. It doesn't work for iFood but works for Despegar. And then you keep building knowledge, knowledge, knowledge as soon and suddenly boom, you reach the 1% that works. And that's what changed your life. That's how life works. Generally, people think that we are like smart people that have a great idea and works in the first place. It doesn't work like this.

So what I'm going to show you here is the first 99%. Things that we are testing and we are learning. And Fabricio mentioned here, he said, "Oh, people are already doing 3 to 5 tests in 1 month". And that's it. I mean we are already doing several tests in 5 hypothesis that are already live, and we are learning a lot. So I'm going to give you a few examples here. So the first thing I want to show you is when we -- for the first time, we're able to cross our database, we discover that the database that cover both companies, it's tiny. So that's a huge opportunity. How many clients I can bring from Despegar in Brazil, of course, to iFood and how many clients from iFood I can work hardly to transport this to Despegar. So that's the first big opportunity that we saw that materialized to us. And of course, the database could be different, and we could also work considering this other scenario. But the point is the main opportunity in terms of database, in terms of client database is the fact that there is low overlap.

Can you change for the next one, Gonzalo? I'm going to give you a few examples of what we are testing. So what we're already doing is there are like 10,000 people in Brazil that already have access to this category at iFood. And you may say, "Oh, this is very simple". It's not simple at all. It's not only like a banner where you click and that's it. There's already like a very interesting integration here that we are -- now we are seeing how people react, how many times people click there. And if then I change this to the bottle, how many times do they click? How many times a person travels during the year? This like, I don't know, 4 times. Okay, how many times he's clicking here to plan for his next trip.

So we are learning with this really how people interact. As soon as you click here, you come to this space inside the iFood app and then you start to understand and it's already integrated that most of the accounts already integrated. So people just flow and they know exactly -- and Despegar knows exactly who is myself.

Another example that we are doing here is what happens if I offer a cash back for you if you download Despegar app. And you may say, well, Diego, you are giving money to somebody to download Despegar app. No, no, no, think differently. There is a price that Despegar pays to Google or to Instagram to make you click and download his app. Am I able to acquire the same client to make the same download for a lower price at iFood? That's the cash back. So the cash back is not an extra expense. Actually, it's a more efficient expense because Despegar already has this expense.

So that's another thing that we are testing. But the way we are testing, it makes the client once he is in, he is inside of the 2 companies. So here we say, make 4 points at the Despegar loyalty program if you click here. And then the person comes and also goes to -- I'm sorry, and he clicks here and he gets a cash back at iFood to use in future purchases paid by Despegar because he's already paying. And at the same time, he gets the points at Despegar, which for Despegar is almost for free. So that's another example of a test that we are doing here to learn how clients react. Inside each of the hypothesis, there are 20 different tests to understand how clients react.

Can you go to the next one, Gonzalo? That's the last one. I'm going to show you some good examples here. So Despegar has a very interesting asset, a fintech called Koin, like coin. So what they do basically is they -- it's a buy now, pay later business that has a great performance in terms of delinquency that is already used by Amazon. It's already used by Magalu. It's one of the main retailers of Brazil, among other very important marketplaces. And now we connected iFood there.

So what's the hypothesis? The hypothesis, maybe there are people, low-income segment that by the end of the month, they have a birthday of their kids and they don't have money to buy a very fancy meal. And you may say, but Diego, if the person doesn't have money to buy a meal, the person has money. But at that point in time, he doesn't have enough money to do that special thing. Let me say, but it's only one transaction for a low-income segment, that's what you need because those people don't transact a lot as the high-income segment.

So we are bringing Koin to solve this. And the great thing is the results have been amazing. First, the AOV gets higher, the frequency gets higher and the DAU, the daily activity of that user increases like by 3x, 4x. So what we are learning is doing buy now, pay later for low-income segments allow me to unlock a certain behavior that wasn't able to happen because there is no credit available to that person. And again, you may say, but credit for food, don't forget, it's only like $5. The chances of the person doesn't paying $5 in 15 days, in 30 days, it's very low.

The first result here is amazing. Of course, this is a credit business. We're not going to scale from one day to another, but it's something that is making us very, very, very proud. At this point in time, we have iFood at Koin app and you do everything from there. So iFood is already integrated there. The person goes to Koin and does everything there. The next step, we bring Koin to our checkout, and then we make it available if the person is from the low-income segment or we don't make if the person is not from the low-income segment. Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Now we have the superstar.

Wow, what another mistake of mine to put 2 Latin Americans on the stage and tell them to stay on time. All right. Let's try and do Q&A correctly this time. Where are the boxes? There's one. Who's got a question? Marcus? Right over here. You can stand up there, Marcus, you can catch it. You could it go on. They are meant to be thrown. There you go.

Marcus with JPMorgan. I have 2 questions for Diego. The first one is on AI. Obviously, we heard a lot about it in the last presentation. If we just stick to the core food segment, how do you think iFood at this point in time compares on AI user application, customer experience and everything that comes under it to other leading food delivery players in the world? Maybe that's the first question.

Well, I visit U.S. and China every single year for 10 years. We are at the same level. No problem at all. Actually, if you compare to Europe, we are much better, much better, much better. It's uncomparable. With China and U.S., I think we're in the same level. And when I say I visit, it doesn't mean I go there to see corporate presentations. We go there to work there, to see the models to understand how it works. I'm comfortable with that.

Perfect. And second question is on competition. Obviously, a lot of noise around Meituan. I'm sure everybody is impressed by the synergies that you have and particularly what you plan in the future using these synergies. If anyone's strategy is to come into your market with heavy vouchering, aggressive marketing, is it your view that you can just withstand just by being better executors, having the network? Or is there also a function of probably outspending or at least increasing spending on top of good execution as well?

Yes. So there are a few aspects here. The first one is some people ask me, oh, they are big. They say, well, what's the difference about Amazon and MeLi when Amazon went to Brazil? It's the same. What was the difference between eBay and Alibaba in China when they compete? It was the same. I mean they were like a small company versus a big company, right? So the question here is not size. So that's the first thing.

The second thing is what's the definition of strategy. Coming to say there's $1 billion in vouchering, it's not a strategy. It's go-to-market. So somebody can come and spend $1 billion. But in the end, the consumer only will stay with you if it makes sense. So every time that somebody asks, I mean, how are you preparing for this? Can you compete with this? The question that I do to myself is, do I already have competitive advantage in my business model? Am I building new competitive advantage? And the answer is yes and yes. So you can lose, yes, if you have a company with better competitive advantage. You can get hurt because somebody spend $1 billion, but don't have competitive advantage. Yes, I can get hurt. But that's part of life. I mean, every time that you're competing, you can get hurt. But the point is who survive and who gets stronger.

So I'm confident that, first, we have been able -- with everything that you saw, we have been able to realize that we have competitive advantage. And second, I could show you more 10 slides that unfortunately, I can't, where I'm building new competitive advantage that are making my business stronger and stronger. So I'm confident. I mean, it's going to be a good fight if they come. It's going to be funny as it will always be. I was there when we thought Uber. It was the same discussion. Oh, there's coming an American company here, $100 billion valuation, $1 billion to spend, you were screwed. And then came Rappi with $1 billion from SoftBank and then come Glovo. It's part of the life.

The question, it's also, do you have competitive advantage or you have $1 billion? I'd rather prefer to have competitive advantage.

All right. Let's go over there to you. Robert? Nice relay.

Yes, Robert Vink from Kepler Cheuvreux. My first question is about -- yes, also a follow-up question about Meituan. I believe that Meituan when it enters markets oftentimes focuses on the lower tier of the market. I believe that you're actually launching also a lower-tier product tailored also maybe to fend off competition. Is there a risk of cannibalization of your more higher-end product? Yes, can that cannibalize?

And the second question is maybe about B2B, more longer-term question. How large do you see the opportunity in B2B? I think right now, you're still predominantly a consumer Internet company. But of course, yes, in B2B, there's also a lot of opportunity with restaurants, with people that own accommodations, hotels. So how large is that opportunity? And could that be over time, just as large as the B2C side of the business?

So first question, low income is a big opportunity in Brazil. We are working on this since 2018, learning, learning, learning. We thought we found the product. And that's -- I mean, we just found that like a year ago more or less. And now we are expanding this to Brazil. We're still in just 2 big cities, trying to finish the learnings and then we will roll out. Why it's so difficult? Because it's low income. So you get a very small AOV, you apply a take rate and you have to pay for everything else, including the delivery rider, right?

So some people say, no, we are going to Brazil to do low income. Don't forget that Brazil is not the same as other places, right? In Brazil, you have to pay for social security. Brazil, you have to pay for social benefits. In Brazil, you cannot just sell somebody work 18 hours a day. It doesn't work like this. It's different. So it's easier to do low income when you have lower expenses. It's more difficult to do low income when you have more expenses. So yes, it's an opportunity. It's not easy to crack the code.

Regarding the B2B, B2C, B2B is not a priority. So we have just the seeds. We do, we learn, we grow, but it's not where I'm putting money. The opportunity, it's unbelievable big. But the challenge is also very big. It's not easy to make the integration. It's a very low-margin business. So scale counts. Therefore, the level of investments should be big. It's not the right time for us to do that. We should wait for a few more years to have this as a priority.

And maybe you can quickly elaborate a bit more on the cannibalization risk of a lower-tier product?

Yes, there is risk. You are totally right that there is risk. So how you solve this? You solve this through UX. So we had the initial results when the product starts to work well, it's called [ HITS ], this product in Brazil. So the initial results show a high level of cannibalization. So how you do that? You come back to Euro's platform and you say, this guy doesn't deserve REITs. I mean he has enough money, but this guy deserves. So it's on the UX that you solve cannibalization. So how you do that? You test 100 hypothesis, 99 doesn't work, one works, and that becomes your framework.

Right. Will? We get you, see there's one more.

It's Will Packer from BNP Paribas Exane. My understanding is that the government is considering reforms to the meal voucher ecosystem in Brazil, particularly at fee levels. Could you remind us how big the meal voucher segment is? What the opportunity for iFood for many reform would be? And whether you think reform is likely?

Yes. So the meal voucher -- for you that don't know this, in Brazil, which is similar to Argentina and to France, there is a regulation that says if you, as a company, provides a meal voucher, a credit specific for food, you can use the same level of spend as a tax reduction. So there's an incentive for companies to give food, to provide food for money to people to -- that work for a company. So that's the rationale.

So the size of this market is -- in dollars is around $25 billion. It's not like huge, but it's very qualified. It's for food and the person only can eat food. So that's the size. So what happened is that we started this movement in Brazil back in 2019 when we saw that the incumbent players of meal voucher companies, they didn't integrate with iFood. And they said, "I don't want to integrate. I don't care about the consumer". I would love to say a word here, but it's very unpolite. But that's basically what I said, I don't give a, to the consumers. So they rather prefer that the consumers had only to go offline to use their card. So we went to Brazil. We did the lobby to say, we have to change that. It doesn't make sense for the employee. And the government changed the law.

So the law basically now says you have to interoperate and you have to make it portable. So if you have a benefit in one company because your company decided to -- you can make the portability to other companies. So we set up a new voucher company. This company is growing fast. We already -- we are reaching this month 1 million users, 1 million clients in this, which already make us a very important player in the market. And now the government is saying, why iFood charges 3% MDR, the fees that you mentioned, and the other companies charge 7%. It doesn't make any sense.

So there is a discussion regarding cap fees, not in a sense that the government is doing something that is not like liberal. The point is it's unfair. It's really unfair. There's a market power in some companies that make this kind of fee structure works. So that's what the government is working. It probably will be reduced. It doesn't affect us because we have already a good level of fees.

Great. All right. Cesar, I'll get you in the next one. We have to go. We're running out of battery on the screen. We will go to the India ecosystem now. So thanks, guys. Fantastic. Now for the India ecosystem.

Thank you.

[Presentation]

Hello, everyone. I hope you're having a good time, learning a lot about Prosus, our different businesses. I'm here to talk about a topic that's close to my heart, and that's India. Over the next hour or so, we will be joined by a couple of guests, and then we'll have enough time for Q&A.

India is in a unique situation right now, progressive policies, favorable demographics, stable government and generally favorable macroeconomic situation. And therefore, it's quite a destination for almost all investors and corporates across the world. But that's general knowledge. I think that you know that, so I'm not going to talk about that.

What I'm going to talk about is Prosus. Our history, our significant milestones and our vision for the future. But before we jump into the future, let me take you into the past a little bit. Let's go to year 1300. This was a time when almost all trade routes across the world went through India, the Emirs of Iberian Peninsula, the ancient Romans, the Chinese, the Egyptians, almost everyone was in India. A country so prosperous that it contributed 25% at the time to world GDP. And no surprise that it was called the Golden Bird.

And why was that? That was because of the spirit of innovation and enterprise. Innovation was not new to India. It was not new in 1300, zero was discovered and so on and so forth. But even after that, that innovation and that enterprise has continued from the grand minds of Golconda to lab-grown diamonds of today, from the rocket designs that were developed in the deccan plateau in India to high-tech space missions launched by the Indian Space Research Organization. And that spirit has been hastened because of the liberalization that the country saw. And that spirit has been hastened because the ever-expanding digital public infrastructure. And that spirit we see in our portfolio as well.

This is a picture from one of the many local markets in India, where micro sellers come and sell their wares at a specific time, on a specific day to a limited set of people. Meesho empowers not 1, not 10, not 100, hundreds of thousands of micro sellers to come online and sell their wares at a time of their choice, on a day of their choice at a price they want and to whoever they want.

Food delivery is not a new concept in India. Dabbawalas of Mumbai have been there for ages, for decades. Swiggy saw that opportunity, made food delivery more efficient and more scalable and took it to beyond Mumbai to hundreds of towns and cities across India. And at Prosus, we saw that spirit.

At Prosus we saw that spirit of innovation and enterprise, and we bagged India when there were questions about the addressable market. When there were questions about exits, we did not know at the time that India is going to grow from #9 in GDP to #4 in GDP. But we believed and we believe with conviction in that spirit of innovation and enterprise. And because of that, from a very humble beginnings, almost a decade ago, today, we manage a portfolio of $6.5 billion in India. And I'm not including the $4-odd billion of cash that we have already returned to shareholders.

More than the cash and more than the gains, I think it's to notice the impact that we have created on the society through our portfolio. Today, we addressed 200 million annual transacting users. We deliver 100 orders per second, and we transact $15 billion in GMV and we process $80 billion in payments. And this is not a disparate set of investments. This is not a few random assets that we have tried to invest in over time. This, to me, is already a loosely coupled ecosystem, where companies are coming together, collaborating, finding synergies and in Prosus growing faster, becoming more profitable.

Let me share a couple of examples with you. There's many, many examples that I can share of this. Swiggy and PharmEasy came together last year to launch India's first medicine delivery on quick-commerce platform. Today, in Bangalore, you can get medicines at home, prescription and nonprescription in 10 minutes. Swiggy owns the customer in the last mile of delivery, PharmEasy, another one of our portfolio companies, owns the relationship with pharma companies in the first mile, and they co-own the middle mile. And this product since launching last year has seen 9x growth in a very short period of time.

Another example, Meesho and PayU, 2 of our portfolio companies. Meesho has commerce data, they see a lot of transactions every day. PayU has payments data. And when you marry both those you can underwrite a merchant much better than you individually can. And therefore, when they come together in a format where they can offer sellers or merchants on Meesho credit, it becomes a much more successful, a much more interesting proposition. And so you can see there is a situation where you launch a first of its kind product coming together. And there's another situation where you make the underlying business much more profitable.

So far, it's suffice to say that, look, I think it's already looking like a loosely coupled up ecosystem. But as we see going ahead or going forward and as we see the world and that ecosystem flywheel that Fabricio shared with you earlier in the day, which had 4 key segments: food delivery, e-commerce, payments and experiences. I just wanted to share with you a couple of examples of companies that represent 1 or 2 or 3 of those segments.

Let's start with our oldest investment in India. Swiggy, it's been 8 years since we invested. And I'm super impressed in how in those 8 years, Swiggy has changed from a food delivery platform to a customer convenience, focused, multiproduct business. And it's not as if these are very different business lines, they have no interaction with each other. No, they're very extremely interconnected. They share the same customers. In some situations, they share the same delivery infrastructure. And of course, they share pieces of the modular tech stack that Swiggy has built. What that means is that Swiggy can now optimize cost, drive synergies and launch products one after the other in a very seamless manner.

Swiggy started as food delivery, added quick commerce, which is a substantially large business today, bought Dineout to offer in-restaurant services, launched innovations like 10-minute food delivery, snack, minis, malls, a co-branded credit card. And all of that comes together under one roof through the loyalty program. The numbers, most of you know, I won't go at least for now in sort of a very detail on these. But suffice to say that the food delivery business is growing, growing reasonably fast and turn profitable. We're very happy about that. Quick commerce, in my history of investing in India for the last 15 years, it's hard for me to find another product with a better product market fit. It's magic, it's dopamine, the way it works in India. And therefore, even at a very large base, Swiggy continues to compound the quick-commerce business. Let me give you another example.

[Presentation]

So Meesho falls in the e-commerce segment of the ecosystem flywheel that Fabricio presented this morning. And it's amazing how despite having 2 large horizontal e-commerce incumbent players, Meesho came from behind and became the largest horizontal e-commerce pad. And that's because of one thing because of first principles thinking, India is not one. India is many. It's an extremely heterogenous country. The way of 15 Indians behave, 50 million, sorry, is not the way the next 100 and the next 200 behave. They behave very differently. They buy very differently. They interact digitally very differently.

And therefore, Meesho is the product for the next 100 and next 200 million Indians where price is the hook and less convenience. And therefore, you will see that in a short period of time, it has now grown to 1 million plus seller, 120 million-plus listings and almost 4 million orders per day. Another example I wanted to give from the experiences segment of the ecosystem flywheel, and that's urban company. Another example of first principles thinking.

[Presentation]

There's many nice metrics to share about Urban Company. There's many good news that I can share. They just recently filed for an IPO, hopefully list this year. And of course, as a company, they're doing very well, profitable and so on and so forth. But I think 2 things I'm extremely proud of. One, the impact that they're creating in the Indian society that you saw on the video. And the second is this number. Average consumer rating of 4.8%. Just imagine, just think for a moment how nonstandard these services, when you pick a product from a warehouse and drop it to your home, in my view, it's an extremely standard service. Maybe you expect that the product is left at the stair, someone expects left in the garden, but that's it. It's a pretty standard product.

But look at this, women's salon and spa at home. I know, your expectation of what a good spa experiences versus yours versus someone else is completely different. Home cleaning, what's a clean bathroom for me versus you, Christian, versus you Euro completely different. Of course, I like cleaner and for the Euro does not. But it's an extremely nonstandard service. And for that kind of service, this kind of average consumer rating, growing fast and extremely profitable. So those were the 3 examples of companies that I wanted to introduced to you in one of the 3 -- each of the 3 segments.

With this, I would like to invite Anirban to talk about PayU, which lies in the fourth segment of our ecosystem flywheel.

[Presentation]

Hi. Glad to be here. Glad to see you all of you. I'll talk a little bit about who we are and what we do and how are we positioned for the next set of -- next phase of growth. Okay. As you know, PayU serves merchants with 2 things. We provide them the most seamless payments and we provide them solutions to grow their business. PayU is what I call a universal payments platform, meaning we serve all kinds of merchants. We serve commerce, travel, food, all of the digital commerce segments. But we also are one of the largest players in bill payments and tax payments and every kind of merchants. We have a special place with the top 500 merchants in the country. We are their preferred provider. But we also serve mid-market and SMBs in the country.

PayU strategy is twofold. We want to be the best-in-class in payments. And second, payments is a platform for broader cross-sell of solutions, including credit for our merchants and their consumers. And just tease about this a little bit. If you see on the top, you will see 2 sides on the payments. Like Stripe, like Adyen, we are a merchant payments company, which is this side, but we are also an issuer processor. We provide most of the issuing banks, processing services for processing payments. 3 in 4 card transactions in India are processed through PayU's authentication platform. Recently, we invested through a strategic partnership with a company called Mindgate, which processes 1 in 2 UPI transactions. If you know, UPI is the platform that put India on the digital -- global digital map, which is real-time mobile money in an interoperable way. And Mindgate does 1 in 2 transactions in India. Why are we on this side? What is this 2-sided play?

Look, digital payments is not a solved problem. It's not a solved problem in any part of the world, especially in India where the median smartphone is a $100 phone. There are many -- there are lots of friction, lots of hops. And how do you simplify those hops? How do you create the best experience and the highest conversion is how we ended up being on both sides. It's -- we have the best infrastructure, the best pipes. We're also able to launch solutions the fastest. As a result, we have the best conversion, which leads to most of the top merchants in the country working with PayU as a leading provider. So that is about best-in-class payments.

The second is payments provides an opportunity to cross-sell many solutions into merchants to grow their sales, things like WhatsApp commerce, things like offer engine and couponing engine. But payments also leads to credit for us. We lend to the suppliers and sellers of merchants. Ashu gave the Meesho example. We also do BNPL and checkout finance for the consumers because India is very fundamentally credit constrained. And this platform of best-in-class payments with embedded credit is how we are very uniquely positioned in the digital commerce ecosystem.

I'll talk about payments a little bit, then talk about credit. So in payments, we have continued to grow very nicely over the last few years. We have retained our market leadership in terms of revenue market share. And we are also one of the 3 profitable players in the industry. And by the way, don't assume #2 and #3 are the profitable players. So profitability is something that is an intentional strategic thing for us. It comes from 2 things. It comes from serving the largest merchants and having more share there because we then enjoy a little bit better economics. It also comes from the ability to cross-sell many different solutions. Cross-sell makes up about 1/3 of our revenues across banks and merchants. And those 2 things power profitability for us.

But the third dimension is also very important. Increasingly with scale, we see a lot of operating leverage. Our cost per transactions have gone down significantly over the last 3 years. But here, there is much more scope to grow. Like -- with Fabricio, we call it being the lowest cost producer. And we see a lot of scope here, especially with GenAI. We are experimenting with many different parts of GenAI. And what's already true for us is fraud risk management, customer service, onboarding, stuff where you actually have a lot of people in payments or in financial services, touching the stuff, that's where we see a lot of scope for improvement. Of course, in tech, both in testing and security reviews in a lot of this. This is work again, like Diego said, some of this, we started years before this all became in fashion and very strong partnership with Euro and team to take this forward.

There's also a lot more to be done in terms of making the sales force much more intelligent here. And we are scratching. This is Chapter 1 of what GenAI can do. If we continue with GenAI, I think we can keep driving this cost per transaction down very significantly. And with massive scale and profitability and lower and lower costs, payments also will produce great economic returns over time. Before I talk credit, I wanted to talk about something that the whole industry has gone through over the last 3 years. Over the last 3 years, the most important thing that happened in Fintech was we went from being unregulated Fintech to regulated digital financial services. We are fully regulated both payments and credit.

Credit also saw a moderate cycle over the last 18 months. Most of those changes are baked into our baseline now. It did impact short-term growth and profitability for us and for the industry. But I see a very clear path forward from here. We are now fully licensed on both sides of our business. And going forward, in the longer term, I actually think regulations are a moat. They increase entry barrier from anybody starting up to now we have 10 players of note and really 3 players with real serious scale in this business. So I think most of this is now well behind and the future looks really exciting.

I'll talk about credit and our credit is very integrated, synergistic with the lifestyle e-commerce business. We -- partners like Swiggy and Meesho and lending to the sellers and restaurants there using the cash flow data on both sides is how we do supplier and SMB lending. And then for consumers, we provide them buy-now-pay-later and check-out finance. And we are one of the leading providers of this in the country. I think this gives us an edge. We can do integrated economics across payments and credit and value-added solutions with merchants. And overall, it creates much more stickiness and helps merchants drive their sales up. And our credit focus, we have tried many things. This is where we will be focused in credit.

Coming to our numbers. Over the last 3 years, we have grown well in spite of the speed bumps, we've grown about 30% CAGR. We have also diversified significantly. Even as payments have grown, both SaaS as well as credit, both of which are structurally higher margin than payments has also grown significantly. So you see both growth and diversification in significant amounts over the last few years.

In summary, I'll say 3 things. With this digital India and the Indian digital economy is a rocket ship. It's growing to grow 5x over the next 5 to 7 years, 2 large macro forces. One is the digitization itself. Second is consumption, driving credit and PayU is well poised to drive both of that and benefit from both of that. PayU is the only platform truly deeply ingrained into the very fabric of digital commerce in India. The largest merchants and ecosystems, the largest banks, we are already their leading partners. And this position will enable us to grow very strongly and continue to deliver great results.

With that, thank you. I'll call on Ashu for the next piece.

Thank you. Thank you, Anirban. Very exciting. I would have loved that welcome video back actually, it's very interesting. But just to share where we are today, with 3 companies that have hit liquidity, MakeMyTrip, Flipkart and Swiggy, we have now unlocked $4 billion of cash gains, but this is not the end. We have many companies who are mature and ready to list and therefore, will add to this gain number in the short term. But that's also not the end. There is many in the pipe, which are at a stage, which probably a couple of years from now or 3 years from now, should provide such gain unlock at the time. And of course, for the long term, we are sowing the seeds as we speak.

Are we happy with that? I think all these companies on the slide are all structurally good companies. They will continue to grow. They will perform well, and they will independently do very well. But how can we improve their journey? How can we increase their pace of growth and how can we increase their profitability. And I think that's where process becomes unique in all of these situations. We will, from now on, be much more intentional. I showed you a couple of examples of enabling interaction between companies, but we will now be much more intentional in building this ecosystem, in putting companies together, driving synergies and helping them grow fast.

We will be more intentional now in the type of knowledge that we share, which includes AI, but beyond AI as well. We have food delivery across continents. And so we will ensure that knowledge sharing happens at that level also. But at the same time, we will continue to invest in areas which will make our ecosystem much more stronger and much more richer. And if we are able to do that and if we are able to change the trajectory of these companies substantially, what we will be able to unlock will be far bigger than what we have today. And what we will be able to unlock is a truly dynamic, a truly humming in a large India tech ecosystem. Thank you so much.

Now I have a surprise guest for you, Harsha. The CEO of Swiggy, we talked a lot about Swiggy during our talk previously. Harsha has been kind enough, flown in all the way from India. Thank you, Harsha.

Hi, everyone. Thanks, Ashu. Thanks for having me here.

Let's start with a few questions from my side, and then we'll, of course, open it up for the audience. Harsha, what is Swiggy? We are a food delivery company. We have quick-commerce, you have dine-out, you have minis, malls. What is the soul, what is the vision? Where are you going? How does all of this come together?

Cool. So it's a deeply personal topic. Everything we do at Swiggy is united by our mission. It's all about offering unlimited joy through unparalleled convenience. And I think why it is deeply personal and super exciting is also all to do about the Indian context. I think India is going through its own moment, strong economic growth overall, GDP per capita are going well. I think we're on our way. In general, with lots of exciting things to look forward to economically. But I do think some of that is also coming at a cost -- at the cost of maybe some basic quality of life indicators like you just don't get like maybe in some of the developed countries like on a good day, my commute to work takes an hour. And you just can't help but wonder and say, okay, we're getting all of this economic growth. Can we do a little bit more to let Indians enjoy their economic growth and not just get it?

That is at the center of like what we get excited about at Swiggy and everything I wake up to do is all about that. So everything is just about that. I think what's also deeply fulfilling for us is that offline India has it quite bad in convenience. But online, I think we would probably be the world's best, if not amongst the world's best in terms of the range of offerings. You have so many offerings like quick-commerce doesn't work in any other part of the world. Like you talked about Urban Company, services like that don't exist in other parts of the world. Even if you take like businesses like food delivery that exist in many, many countries, I'm biased, but I do think that India food delivery in terms of like service parameters and how the overall experience works would be in the Top 3 globally. So for us, as a developing country, so call like to be a very developed force in online convenience, I think fills my heart, and that's what we are here at Swiggy.

We are very happy to be associated. I have anecdote to share. When my mother comes to Bangalore and visits me, he -- and this is an example of how much product love people have for Swiggy. Her biggest quip is I see the Swiggy delivery guy more at home than I see you. This is a number of time the guy comes home every day, there's 3 or 4 or 5 deliveries. Thank you. Harsha, let's go back a little bit, when you started in food delivery, I still remember, I reached out to you in 2015 -- 15-ish, yes. And we were doing 300 orders per day. There's probably like 20 food delivery companies in India at that time. What do you attribute this success and this growth and where you are today? What's in the Swiggy or that makes this possible?

I think in 2014, '15, the thing that really worked for us is that I guess we just stayed true to the concept of unparalleled convenience, and we didn't think that unparallel convenience was going to come when the restaurant was going to do the deliveries. It was going to be unparalleled in convenience in India. So for us, it was quite obvious that this is the only way you can actually make a customer happy. And I think we were in the significant minority amongst a bunch of companies that just chose to do the same thing, but we played it differently at the time. At that time, it was quite unconventional.

But just that one decision and executing on that and figuring out how to make that on-demand model work in India was the first on-demand. Mobility had existed for on-demand, delivery was a whole new thing. So to be able to figure out how to let a service like that exist and scale it in 10 cities just that allowed us the opening because our cohorts look very different from our peers and that just allowed us another day to fight.

It's amazing to see the growth of $300 million -- 300 orders per day to millions orders per day. Was the evolution of quick-commerce similar? In terms of, sort of, how you thought about it and then how we executed on?

No, I think a lot has changed. The quick-commerce that we say -- I mean if you look at food delivery today, largely, 95%, it looks like food delivery that we did in August 2014. But I think in quick-commerce, what defines quick-commerce is changing like every 3 months, 6 months, I think, because it's such a large -- it's effectively retail at some level, and there could be so many user segments, so many categories. So a lot has changed since we first kind of began our journey with quick-commerce.

When we started, we assume that we were going to build a 7-Eleven equivalent for India that comes in 30 to 45 minutes. We just thought of quick-commerce is probably just a distressed, top-up indulgence, impulse purchase mission destination. Well, I think a lot has happened since then. I think consumers were surprised to find like batteries in year 1. Consumers weren't surprised to find bedsheets on the platform last year. So I think consumer imagination also expands quite crazily as platforms get the salient. So I mean it's still kind of a blurry line. I think it's almost like all the players in the category are figuring out what the boundaries of quick-commerce are. You talked about pharmacy. I don't think we thought about all of this when we started. But we're finding out as we speak.

Yes. Truly, I think quick-commerce in India is quickly becoming the go-to format for all -- almost all online retail purchases. Food delivery has evolved in India to a stage where you're profitable, you're growing fast, reasonably fast, et cetera. In your mind, is there a question on profitability in quick-commerce. Is this TBD? Or do you have comfort based on what you see today?

No, I think. To the doubters skeptics, I can see why it looks like that. We've also gone through this journey in food delivery. We look and understand the levers of the business quite well. We feel pretty good about the size of the category is staying in line with expectations. I think we continue to see strong growth. It's already larger than food delivery in India, the quick-commerce category, and it's not showing any signs of slowing down. So I think the levers exist. It's up to us now to make sure that we navigate our own business towards that place.

What has changed for you, Harsha, personally after the IPO? Has life changed considerably?

If you ask any of my leadership management team, all of us, I think the one word that will probably say that we're feeling a lot more liberated after going public because when you're not public and you're about to go public, everyone has their own version of what being public means like. And that just creates like all sorts of fear, uncertainty, doubts saying, am I going to be able to do this? Will I not watch the stock price? Will I be able to be short term, long term, whatever.

But I think our experience has been quite good. It is an unknown, but then I also realized that as a founder, I've gone through a million unknowns in 10 years, watch a couple more. So I just didn't think about it like that before. But when you think about, I think our market -- I mean, even investors, analysts, the overall feedback has been constructive, whether it's good or bad. I like that it's constructive. It's not like myopic or anything as long as you're able to explain what you're trying to do. I think there is some comfort around, okay, this is what happens. And then you do well, you get a PAT, you badly you get a knock, I think that's all right.

The good news is the feedback comes every day and the bad news is the same. Probably one last question. It has 3 parts, Harsha. One is, where is Swiggy going? What's the end game, if at all, for Swiggy for food delivery and for quick-commerce? What is the big solve? What is the big unlock?

Look, I think from here, everything we're doing is going off the rails of -- the same thing that I started my conversation with India's economic growth. I think if you have to oversimplify overall Swiggy's growth strategy, everything we do serves maybe the top 150 million consumers in the country. That's the limit of maybe what we go after 150, maybe 200 with a little bit of a stretch. And our deep belief is that every passing year, for the next 10, 15, 20 years, more and more users are going to come into the part of the pyramid that we play in. We just need to keep solving for the same problems. We need 3, 4 large businesses that will just compound based on the users flowing into the part of the pyramid we play in to build an ultra large outcome. That's on the business side.

But if I had to go in each category, it has very, very different nuances. I know you mentioned like the food delivery business growing reasonably fast. But I think it has the potential to grow reasonably fast for a very, very, very long time. I think if you were to just put that in perspective, Beijing has more restaurants than India as of today. That's how early we are in like India is eating out history. And that's changing. And as every country goes through its own economic growth, then discretionary income goes fast into the restaurant industry. So the rails that we're building on top of are definitely going to grow faster than the economy.

For the last year, for example, 13.5% was the rate that the organized industry -- organized restaurant industry grow at. So what we love are the rails. And if I have to use a crystal ball here, I mean, if the industry is going to grow at like 10% to 15%, and we can continue growing at 15% to 20%. What you will see will be very unusual for most countries that have food delivery today. We're already like 25% to 30% of the overall organized restaurant industry, Swiggy and Zomato. And I think that number is going to start hitting 40%, 45%, 50% of the overall restaurant industry.

So at some level, the industry is going to evolve very, very differently because of how early online food delivery happened in the country's history of eating out. So I think that's something -- it's not going to happen by itself. I think we have to do so much more because our job is not just a channel transfer, saying people are already eating enough off-line, so we just need to convert that to online. So these -- I mean, every category, I mean, in quick-commerce, it's, of course, like another super large category, I think, never-ending penetration that will continue over the next couple of decades, I guess. Overall, if I have to think of what we will be doing, what the soul of the company will be 10 years later, it will be the same. Hopefully, between the things that we're doing today and maybe 1, 2 more big game openings that we have, I would love it if we are able to serve 100 million users, 15 times a month.

That's amazing. Last 8, 9 years association with Swiggy has been amazing. Thank you so much and we look forward to an even longer one. And with that, ladies and gentlemen, we'll have the Q&A, and so I'm looking for Eoin and Anirban to join us and for all the...

Very suspenseful music as we put the chairs up. I realized there was an incredibly cruel thing to do minutes before lunch to talk about food delivery, but we are almost there. So we said -- we might as well use them.

Let's stand.

Now it's awkward. I'm tired. Okay. Let's get straight to questions. There's one right here because we haven't had any questions from over there. So this is -- I go back to Cesar, Monique next. Okay.

It's Michael de Nobrega from Avior Capital Markets. So the first one is that in India Prosus has quite small interest into all the different companies. So Ashutosh, could you elaborate on the influence that you see Prosus has on -- over these companies to collaborate, share information, cross-sell? And we've seen different examples of, for instance, Rapido entering food delivery. So how do you deal with the individual interests of the company?

Sure. So I think on the first one, win-win for everyone is the only way we can influence in this. I gave you a few examples. Swiggy and PharmEasy coming together, PayU and Meesho coming together. There's many other examples where we can either through enabling these connections at the time or bringing super specialized expertise from our AI team or from iFood, we are able to kind of, for example, in Swiggy's case, Swiggy and iFood work closely together. So those combinations are already happening. And we will -- as I said, we're going to go much faster on that. As for your other question, I think Harsha is better placed to answer because Harsha owns 13% of Rapido.

How much?

Whatever.

No not that much, but we are also an investor in Rapido, a small investor. So look, I think each company has their own strategy and sometimes they may come after new openings that they're interested in, but I'll just maybe take you a few steps back into food delivery history itself in India. I think Ashu talked about how there were 20 players in 2015. In 2017, Uber and Ola threw their hat in the ring. 2019, Amazon threw their hat in the ring. 2021, there was an entry of like a more decentralized network called the ONDC that was about to come in India. And we -- and credit to us and Zomato for having seen these threats. So I genuinely think we do a pretty good job of serving the consumer.

And it is not easy to just get an opening that you can go take a home run with. I think it will be interesting to see if there's an alternate take to food delivery that can grow the category some more because we're waiting for some more growth as well. So we definitely super agile and paranoid and these are the actions that we're going to make. If we see a new opening that's going to be exciting, then we're going to be all over it. Ashu talked about the more modular tech stack, et cetera. There was an emerging potential opening in food delivery around let's say, cafe kind of food. There was a player Zepto that launched Zepto cafe, et cetera. The moment we decided to do something of our own as a pilot called Snack, it took us 16 days to put the application out there -- so we're going to come -- if there is an interesting opening, we'll be out there in weeks trying our own luck with the customer to grow the category. We're not going to wait and watch.

Okay. Cesar, are you ready? Do you have a question? Okay. Go along, just give it to -- better catch Cesar. A lot of pressure. Well done.

I have 2 questions, please. The first is on quick-commerce. Do you expect some consolidation to happen? And do you think you're going to be part of it? And second one, still on quick-commerce. Do you think this could evolve into distributing more products than just groceries and pharmacy? Do you think it's moving closer to actually e-commerce and probably distributing a wider range of SKUs?

So for the first question, I think the real answer for all of the questions about market structure and consolidation is market structure is a functional market size. I think in 2019, we found out that food delivery has its own limits. It's going to be like a $4 billion, $5 billion category growing at a certain pace. That was a moment of clarity for the category that consolidation was imminent in Uber sold to Zomato etc.

At this point, it looks like we're headed for a $30 billion, $40 billion, $50 billion kind of category in quick-commerce in 3 to 5 years. So I would assume that, that kind of size can support more than 2 players. Can it support like 5, 6? Unlikely. But we should expect some more consolidation amongst like -- if you look at the structure of the category today, so there are 3 major players and 4 fringe players. There would be some consolidation. In some cases, they may not even be a need for consolidation because, let's say, the legacy [ e-commerce ] may want to continue the offering in a bit to stay relevant for their consumers. And going to continue, but it's not going to really expand the pie as we're seeing already today.

As for the second question. Honestly, I think that's already changed the breadth of the selection that is on offer. We would now have like the widest coverage of the wider selection at the country level. I think we've come our own long way. We started with quick-commerce with 2,500 to 3,000 SKUs in 2020. You would now see between 30,000 to 40,000 SKUs on quick commerce already. So the kind of needs and the categories that we're going after are already changing.

However, I wouldn't -- there every single category that done in traditional [ commerce ] can be done in quick-commerce, like you can't do fashion probably. I still don't know how that would work, because fashion is a very selection oriented game. You need a lot of a lot of models sometime. And white goods is probably going to be hard. There are some reasons why maybe like a little bit more equities will be needed in stuff like mobile phones, et cetera, but there are a whole host of other categories in Home & Kitchen, toys and stationary, beauty, personal care, that are all going to be -- our sense is that they're going to be q-com dominant versus e-com dominant today.

Anecdotally, the behavior is changing as close. The first port of call is inherently becoming the quick commerce platform. And if I find it there, then I go to something else. I think a lot of this is also the expanding imagination of the consumer. It's almost like our null searches driver next selection addition. Nobody was searching for bedsheets in year 1, but as users got more and more selection, they will try my luck. And then when enough try their luck, they're like, okay, let's where we go next from here. I mean, Jeff Bezos said that the users have like divine dissatisfaction and they express it on the search box every day.

Monique Pollard from Citi. I had a question for you, Ashutosh, in terms of how you think about these listings that might come up in the Indian ecosystem. And do you see them basically as an opportunity for value crystallization or cap turns? Or do you also see them to some extent as an opportunity to potentially buy more of those assets, own more of those assets, particularly if there are assets that you see as incredibly critical to the ecosystem. I'm just thinking you're going one way and then we've seen in LatAm and Europe, some purchases of public market assets.

Absolutely. Look, I think anything that enriches our ecosystem and makes it more dynamic and more vibrant and strengthens it, we will be interested in it. Now the question to buy or not buy is beyond that, right? There's a question of valuation and hundred other things. So the focus at this time is those 4 segments that Fabricio talked about, anything that falls in that is, of course, of interest. Other than that, I think we are long-term believers in almost all of these businesses. So more often than not, we will continue to keep our trust in them.

Alright. Roberts.

Roberts from Kepler Cheuvreux. I have a question about PayU. I saw that you made a couple of acquisitions or investments in companies that were innovative in certain fields of yes, the payments landscape? Why did you decide to make those investments instead of developing those technologies that capabilities internally in your own company?

Sure. Look, we are mostly builders. We build. But once in a while, you find an opportunity that accelerates your journey. And that's when we do an M&A or strategic partnership. In this specific case, the one that we did last year, we took a 43% stake in a company called Mindgate. Mindgate is already deeply entrenched providing UPI platforms to all the banks. We are very strong inside the banks, we are very strong on cards. On the merchant side, we are strong in all the areas. But UPI, they have 1 in 2 transactions in the country today. It's hard to replicate that. We thought it was -- the opportunities in creating much more newer UPI solutions, right? Credit on UPI is just happening. UPI is going from being a payment method to a full payment system, right? And the opportunity to do many more new things is much bigger instead of trying to just beat them at their game inside the banks, that's where we thought it's better to partner strategically.

Perfect. I will do Warwick and then go along to Marty.

Warwick Bam from RMB Morgan Stanley. Just another one for you Anirban. Just in terms of the unit economics, I mean, you've got significant scale. Certainly, the transaction volume is very impressive. Just give us a sense of how your path to profitability, what sort of margin do you expect in the payments business, you're getting minus 2% at the moment. How long do you -- should we wait before you get to sort of sustainable profitability, what does that look like?

Yes. Fair question. Second half of the year, we broke even. Look, long term, till UPI pricing comes in a bigger way. It's not in our control, so we don't account for it. I think near term, we'll be in the 5% range soon enough. And then from there, I expect it to expand. That's just core payments. And then the SaaS and the vast layer on top adds another few percentage points to that business. And then with more scale, hopefully, it keeps compounding for a very, very long time, we'll see hopefully much more profitability.

All right. We're going over here to Warwick, go along there, use your rugby skills...

Jesus -- well done, I could have gotten awkward. Tough catch. This question probably for Ashutosh. India is already a $4 trillion economy. And I think the ambition is to get to $10 trillion. So from your ecosystem perspective, which verticals do you see benefiting the most from it? And -- or do you need to get into any new vertical which you don't have right now to capture the additional growth? And just a question for PayU you as well. I think payment is a very exciting segment. I wonder what is the overall market opportunity you see for your space? Is there any further verticals you are not operating in right now, which can be of interest for you? So how big can PayU actually become?

I can start with -- by the way, great chat this morning. So thank you for that. I think, look, India is a very interesting market at this time. If you look at cement companies like forget tech for a moment. Cement companies in India growing 15% to 16%. And therefore, you're right, as the tide rises, it will raise all boats. And I think the technology companies will disproportionately enjoy the benefits of that race.

Now as to your question on what will benefit the most, I think consumption economy, in general, will benefit the most. Because what's happening is India has reached $2,500 in GDP per capita. And when that number was reached in China last, any incremental GDP on top of that was spent more towards discretionary spends. And therefore, discretionary spends like food, fashion, retail, commerce, travel, et cetera, et cetera, will benefit disproportionately. Thankfully, in almost all of the segments in that ecosystem flywheel that you saw, we have representation. I think what we're looking for is how do we go beyond the top 100 million, 150 million consumers that Harsha talked about. Is there a new product? Is there a new Meesho, for example, for mobility. That's where we found Rapido? Or is there a new Rapido, for example, I know, travel -- I'm just making this up, right? So the next demographic cross-section of the society will be our continued focus.

Anirban?

Okay. Look, Overall, as I said, digital commerce will grow 5x. But if you break it down, payments will grow about 4 to 5x over the next 5 to 7 years. Credit will actually grow 7x because as India becomes middle income, as Ashu says, like there is the -- India is very fundamentally credit card constrained. SMBs also are very, very underpenetrated. So massive opportunities. We say India will -- we call it [ 2, 4, 7 ] inside the company. India will double, payments will at least become 4x, and credit will become 7x. And we are deeply entrenched in the ecosystem. So hopefully, we can meet or beat those numbers.

Alright. Will?

It's Will Packer from BNP Paribas Exane. You surprised me every time. We heard about the e-commerce-led LLM growth focus for Prosus Group. We also heard that Swiggy currently doesn't share its data with Prosus. Could you talk us think about -- think us -- could you talk us through how you think about the risk and opportunity associated with any such data sharing?

Fabricio planted that question.

I don't know which specific kind of data, we're a public company. To the broader point, actually, there's enough connects between Euro's team and Madhu at Swiggy. So that we are probably sharing almost all of the -- our findings, our best practices, which we implement elsewhere in the world with Swiggy. Specifically on data, we may -- I don't know there's a DP question involved or what data privacy question, I mean.

But in terms of absorbing all those trillions of data points that developed from Swiggy as you interact with these consumers. Currently, you don't share them with Prosus Group, and that's going to be the case for the foreseeable future.

We'll have to come back to you on that. I think as for the best practices, as I said, in food delivery, using AI and without AI, we completely, completely connected.

All right. Let's go one more. We've got 8 seconds before lunch.

It's Michael again. So just a quick follow-up on the last question on PayU. So you mentioned that you're focusing still on the merchant credit. Where do you see growth on the consumer side? It seems that could be a much larger potential. And what's preventing you from going into that?

No. We also do consumer credit. Consumer credit is actually 60% of our book and merchant credit is 40%. We do -- as I shared in my slide, we do BNPL on partners like Swiggy. We also do installment loans because fundamentally India has 50 million credit cards only. In real terms, there's the demand for and probably the opportunity to serve 150 million people. So big opportunity, agree. We just are doing it very synergistic with our ecosystem. And once we start the relationship with BNPL or checkout finance, as we call it, then we cross-sell them personal loans and consumer loans. It is a big opportunity, yes.

All right. Let's leave it there. So it is halftime. It's lunchtime. Thank you for your attention for the first half. Lunch is upstairs. Please proceed at an orderly pace. I know you're hungry, checkout the QR code that's over there by the hologram to interact with the AI agent and enjoy lunch. We will be back here in just over an hour. And we will be dealing with the European ecosystem.

Good afternoon, everyone. I'm not going to stay here too long. What I want to do now, while you take back place in your chairs, I want to have a very short conversation with the hologram, the hologram, which is down there. That hologram there has been learning from your interactions with the CMD app all morning. So this is the QR code for the app in the same way that the LCM learns from millions and millions of interactions with our platforms. So let me ask the first question to the hologram. What are the 3 most common questions that you have asked to the application this morning?

Sure. So the most common questions people have been asking are, what's the strategy and future direction of Prosus, specifically around lifestyle e-commerce ecosystems. What's the schedule and who are the speakers? And what's on the lunch menu? Those have been the top 3 so far. Want me to dig into any of those?

No, no, that's done. Thank you very much. That's very interesting, of course. Another question that we got in the last, let's say, 20 minutes of our lunch is that, but how does the large commerce model work?

So the large commerce model or LCM is basically an AI model that leverages a ton of cross-platform commerce data. It's all about making super smart AI-driven decisions to optimize everything from pricing to customer experience. It's a big deal for their e-commerce ecosystems. Want to hear more specifics?

Okay. That's not so bad. By far, however, the most common question we had is how do you pronounce the name of our Head of Investor Relations? So the guy that looks like Ed Sheeran.

You must be talking about Eoin Ryan. That's pronounced like Owen Ryan. And just for the record, I'm not confirming any look-alikes.

Anyway, well said. You do look like Ed Sheeran, right? It's a matter of fact. You have the application here. Please interact with this, the voice that you heard is the voice that responds to you, and it has been learning and there's a lot that you can share about Prosus.

With that, welcome to the second part of the program today. I'll see you later.

[Presentation]

Hello, everyone. You thought I was gone? No, I'm back. I'm in charge of Europe. I'm in charge of everything that if something has a problem, I'm in charge of that too. So I'm back. Hope you enjoyed our lunch with brigadeiro. Many people asked, what is this black thing? It's brigadeiro. If you are in a party in Brazil, children party, that's the best sweet that we eat in Brazil. I eat many brigadeiros. If you see some on your table, they are not going to be there after the event. I'm going to eat them all. I hope you also tasted brigadeiro.

Let me talk about Europe. In the last -- in the morning, we had Diego talking about Latin America, and we have Ashu talking about India. And who's in charge of Europe is not me actually, it is Roberto Gandolfo. Roberto Gandolfo was in charge of food delivery in Brazil until 1 month ago. So there was and Diego in charge of all food delivery operations in iFood is Roberto Gandolfo. And he left Brazil, he was fired from iFood, and he started working in Prosus in July 1. So next time we talk today, I think he's unemployed, but July 1, he's going to be in charge of making sure the ecosystem works in Europe. But he's out -- he's in vacation because actually he's unemployed today, but he arrives in Amsterdam on July 1. And I'm going to make the Europe presentation you have to deal with me.

Next time, Gandolfo will be here, Roberto will be here to talk to you about the results on what I'm going to show you today. So first, I am extremely bullish about Europe, extremely bullish. We have so many talents, very good in technology and development, very good in some specific areas, for example, I was in Cambridge and Oxford the last week, seeing many deep tech companies, great universities. We have many startups here and many unicorns. So the size of this market, as I showed in the morning, is more or less the same as U.S., but the reality is even though we have so many good ingredients, our 6 biggest companies value $0.5 trillion, the 6 big companies of America value $15 trillion. Oh my god, for sure, there is opportunities here.

In Food Delivery, our biggest company values just the European parts, EUR 3 billion or EUR 4 billion. The biggest one in U.S. is EUR 80 billion, China, $100 billion. So there is a big potential if we can explore and succeed on that. What is our plan? Built on top of a strong foundation. OLX, I put here the 2 biggest companies, OLX is quite big, quite successful, quite good. And if you're thinking what is the secret, Christian is going to come here and show you everything. So prepare for the best part of the day.

And together we OLX, we have Just Eat as European Commission approves. It's a very good base on top of that, lots of technology, and we started to have an ecosystem in Europe. I don't know if you have it today, but we will start to have putting together Just Eat, OLX, but also eMAG and iyzico. So a quick review on that. First, actually, we already start -- it's a good start. So that's how it looks like this ecosystem last year. So in 2025, the numbers are going to be better than that. But last year, we are talking about almost 1 billion transactions, 25 billion dollars or euro, I don't know, hope it is euro because euro is much more valuable now. So let's say, EUR 25 billion here, 100 million customers, 7.3 billion -- it's dollars. Okay.

But let's increase this goal soon to be EUR 7.3 billion, but today, $7.3 billion and 0.7 billion EBITDA. Just to start, we are going to do much more. That's our starting point. This starting point is based on, first, OLX. As I told you, we are very bullish on OLX. OLX is doing good, it's growing, expanding its margin, is competing well, good product, good leadership, good culture. You are going to hear just after me, the main program of the day, Christian talking about OLX. Now you have to deliver, no pressure. So OLX, it's a very good foundation for a strong European ecosystem.

But we have more than that. We don't talk that much. But actually, I like very much what we are doing in Romania. We have eMAG. eMAG is an ecosystem. We have genius in the center. We have not only the eMAG. eMAG is like the Amazon or even better, much better than the Amazon of Romania, very high market share. Together with eMAG, we have many other businesses, including credit, same-day delivery. You saw all the lockers here, so you can deliver in the -- for millions of customers, this is the same day Freshful in groceries, Fashion Days. So we have a strong player in Romania.

In my opinion, one of the reasons we didn't talk a lot about that or you didn't ask is because this business was losing money for some time. In -- Tudor that is here, Tudor raise your hand, made an amazing turnaround in the last 6 months. What I challenged Tudor was we want to have a best-in-class in the award company doing retail. And our benchmark is MercadoLibre. And the bottom line of eMAG grew dramatically, we over-deliver our budgets. Our expectation for this year is to grow many times, I think around 5x growth in their EBITDA. I think in their EBIT, 5x growth.

And the big challenge for them is same level of efficiency in terms of profitability than MercadoLibre. And that's what I believe there -- that's what they are doing. That's what I believe they are going to do because I have more information than you that is not only seeing the numbers, but seeing the great innovation capacity, speeds, communication of the company. So I have lots of expectations we are going to keep over delivering in eMAG. Tudor's not making a presentation today here, but he's going to come on stage for Q&A. So please make good questions about eMAG because next Capital Markets Day, this is going to be the star.

Besides eMAG, we have iyzico. Usually, we don't report in details about iyzico, but iyzico is growing a lot, 87% in local currency. It's focusing in Turkey. We have also not only payments, pure payments, but their wallets with a very good product, growing well, leader and I believe keeping this growth rate, it's going to be also an important part about our ecosystem in Europe because, as I told you, food and payments and Fintech should work together to create a strong ecosystem. We have Orkun here. Orkun raise your hand. So please make questions about iyzico in Turkey when we have the Q&A in a few minutes.

So this is the 3 business we usually talk about. A few quick numbers on Europe, today is around $3.5 billion. Dollars, I believe. It's going to grow more than 2.5x. This number doesn't include today, obviously Just Eat Takeaway. We don't know how we're going to start including them, but you can expect a lot of growth. The results on this area are good and growing, mostly OLX this year. However, we expect a lot of growth here from OLX, iyzico. Iyzico is quite profitable, too, but we expect a lot of growth for iyzico. And eMAG this year is going to contribute a lot to this EBITDA, too. So we have a quite good growth trajectory that's going to grow at least 3x in the next few years. It's going to be much more I am sure.

So these are the big numbers. But what Eoin told me was just give a quick interview, a quick overview. What they want to ask you is -- and Just Eat Takeaway. Talk a little about that. So that's why I am the volunteer to talk a little about Europe. I'm going to show you some of our perceptions or a few numbers, a few of them you already know. I'm going to show you a little how we see Just Eat Takeaway compared to iFood. I, as I told you, I cannot answer on questions on when you are going to do that exactly, what you are going to do because we now have to wait for the European Commission.

But what's our story on Just Eat Takeaway? First, it's a very interesting company. We start -- our starting point is a company that is a leader in U.K., Netherlands and Germany. This is very strong, very valuable, and we are very excited to have the leader company in these 3 markets. We are also in other 14 markets, but look to be a leader in U.K., Netherlands and Germany is very valuable. I hope you can dream with me what we could build starting from leadership in these 3 countries and having more 14 markets. 650 million, close to $400 million EBITDA, EUR 360 million to million is the guidance they gave. Remember, we cannot talk about their numbers. This is their public numbers. 60 million customers, 350,000 restaurants.

What we can add, Prosus has a strong tech record on innovation, growth, profitability. You know a lot about that, which showed you Euro and Diego talking about exactly that in the last presentations. We have -- JET has strong positions, and we have a clear plan to accelerate JET performance. We're not going to share the planning details, but we're going to share what we can in how we see the future of JET here.

So moving on. In the first slides of the day at 9 in the morning, I told you, Stockdale Paradox. We believe we are going to succeed and have the best food delivery player in the world, but we have to face the brutal fact. So the brutal fact that you are thinking is, first, we have some business performance issues, let's say, this way. Many people think the business could deliver more. I agree. I have to be a little, how can I say, we are still finishing the transaction. We haven't approved yet -- the approval yet, but I agree with people that think that just it should be delivering much more. Much more. So I agree with you, business performance should increase. Second, it is a 10,000 people company. We have to integrate culture, align people, make the whole company communicate better. It's difficult. It takes time.

And third, we need world-class tech and innovation, and this is a requirement to Just Eat succeed. A few comments about that. Many people, not you here in this room, not you looking in the streaming, but many people said we cannot change the culture in Prosus in a few months or in 1 year because such a too big company, it's old, what can we do? But actually, the event today is about that. We did it. We -- I'm very, very confident we will quickly move Just Eat Takeaway to be much more oriented to results, growth and innovation. I think the presentation today reinforce our confidence on that.

The presentation today reinforce our confidence in world-class tech and innovation. We showed a lot of things today that we think can help Just Eat Takeaway to grow faster. So I'm going to focus more on the business performance. What kind of idea we have that we can really improve the performance besides those two? So first, that is iFood know-how that we believe can help to accelerate growth at JET. And I'm going to have like 4, 5 slides detailing more about that. But briefly, we believe tech and product can learn, we can share from Just Eat, but share from iFood on tech and products. A few clear examples about that. People ask me, can you give like clear examples about that.

There is a very strong culture of tests in iFood. We don't care about the idea of Fabricio. We have 100 hypothesis, and we test all of them, some of them work, and that's what we scale. It doesn't matter -- it's not a top-down thing. It's great hypothesis. We test fast, we scale what works. The iFood culture on that is very aggressive, generate a lot of results. We believe Just Eat Takeaway can learn from iFood on that. For example, you can -- also on AI, there is a 10% increase on conversion. I'm going to show more details about that because of AI.

Our loyalty program is very successful. There's a lot of learnings here. Our offer quality helping the restaurants through information. It's a competitive advantage and also reducing delivery cost and using AI to deliver. All of that are things that we clearly can see that we can share important things to Just Eat Takeaways. So this was just a summary slide and I don't want to stay on this summary, let's go to the other more detailed slides.

So first area is tech and product a few good things to share how we see the tech and product culture. We run a lot. You can see here, hundreds and hundreds of tests with restaurants, 600 meeting hours, listen to the restaurants, creating hypothesis, testing hundreds of them scaling what worked. You could say fine, so what -- sorry, 20% improvement in restaurant churn over, I think, 1 or 2 years because of the improvements that we are doing in restaurants. On clients, customers, the same thing. 42 sessions -- tests in one session. It doesn't matter who had the idea. It doesn't matter what Fabricio thinks or Diego. What matter is create hypothesis, test one-week, if it works, scale. 64% conversion, much better than the industry standards.

And the same thing with drivers, lots of meetings improvements, very high app approval score. During the lunch today, someone asked me the following question, how much many months I need to put this product in Just Eat Takeaway? That's not how I see it. This is not like you just take our product and you put in another country. If you do that, I think you would be replicating a mistake that many other companies did that is just replicating products. What we can do is share learnings and culture and sharing technology, not like a ready products. I think Just Eat Takeaway has to reposition itself to say, "I'm ready to win again. I'm here to win, to be the #1 in Europe, then the #1 in the awards". We can invest for that. We can help on that.

We can share the knowledge. We have to make this Just Eat Takeaway to iterate, learn and innovate as the best-in-class in the awards. Then there will be things we have just moved from Brazil to here. But that's not the most important question. The most important question is, are we moving fast enough to create a leader -- global leader company? That's the challenge I have to do, and this tech products, if I can do that on tech and product, Just Eat Takeaway will turn around and start to grow again quite fast. So that's our biggest challenge.

Second area is customer journey. You have a few examples here, too. Discovery, 50% of the traffic is originated from a fully personalized home. We're also doing the due diligence. We don't operate Just Eat Takeaway. I want to remind you all. So how Just Eat Takeaway those that. This is substantially better than what we see in Just Eat Takeaway today, fully personalized using LCM or using AI to define everything and improve conversions.

Same thing with merchants, same thing with support. Support is an example that I think Diego showed 65% of tickets are resolved by AI chat with bigger customer satisfaction than done by real person. So we have substantially smaller costs and better customer satisfaction at 65% of the tickets. There is a lot to share and hopefully, to work together with Just Eat Takeaway to improve within these areas.

Third area, I think is the most important for this presentation, loyalty program. The loyalty program for iFood, it's not written here. I think Diego talked about it briefly. Today, we have 36, 37, it was March, I think today is more than 42 million, 43 million orders per month, and millions of customers, customers are out here, using our loyalty program. This is profitable. Customers are happy. It incentivizes cross-sell aggressively. So it starts in food delivery, then it goes to pharmacy, to grocery. Now we are sending trips and events, all of that in a profitable loyalty program.

How we got that there? Maybe you can think, yes, Amazon did it with Prime, so we did it in iFood. That was the most absurd thing I said in the whole day here. Loyalty program is extremely complex. There is a presentation we have internally that we did 1,200 tests on loyalty program before we get to dynamics where the customer is happy and it's profitable. Because look, if you think loyalty program, free delivery, I just saw Amazon Prime, you charge $9 and you get free delivery. It's like a machine to destroy money in an unbelievable speed. Doesn't pay off.

So lots a problem we have to understand what should we offer, what is the benefit, what's the profile, how the customer enter, how it evolves, how they perceive the offer, use a lot of data on that. You have to make money on the average. So you know these outliers. You have to control these outliers. We work on that for 3 years until we said, I was in iFood already yet by the time. And Prosus always said, well, the program is fine. But if you scale the thing, it's a bump because you cannot scale that before you have the right economics. Now we have the same margins per customer in the loyalty program than outside loyalty program, but customers using much more here. This experience of running that for 5 years with these numbers, for sure, can make Just Eat Takeaway move faster, 100% sure, there's a lot of value here. Obviously, we use a lot of AI to do that.

And also delivery costs, not only costs but quality, delivery time, we deliver in less than 30 minutes on average, driver productivity, what means drivers are making more money, delivering more things with a lower cost. So we are very good on that, and that is an area that we see lots of upsides on Just Eat Takeaway. So I didn't want to make this presentation. I don't know what you show any Just Eat Takeaway number. We haven't completed the transaction. We have to wait a little more. I want you just to see that there are areas that we are global class. We really believe Just Eat Takeaway can benefit from that.

I will be back here to Q&A in a few, I think, in 1 hour. So please write down your questions and I can answer many questions on Just Eat Takeaway. But I cannot answer questions related to the regulatory approval. So we have this nice slide made by our legal team. So the legal team said, many regulatory approvals were already obtained like U.K. and Canada and a few other countries. We filed this week, I think on Monday or Saturday, the document with the formal approval request. It is ahead of the target that we planned with the lawyers and everyone else. So I'm very happy that we are moving faster and ahead of the time.

That said, Europe Commission will take the time they want, and we will talk a lot about that as soon as they answer our official filing over the next few months. The offer period, we always said we expected to close inside this year. Obviously, we keep this expectation. As a good Brazilian tech founder, I am optimistic we can do more than what we originally promised. But I will not comment more on that today.

My biggest priority move fast. The faster I can move here, the more I can create competitive advantage, and I can execute well on Just Eat Takeaway. So we are confident we are doing well. We have lots of knowledge. Now let's wait for the European Commission, but they have been fast lately. So I am optimistic.

I think this is the last one. As I told you, this is our plan. Someone made the question during the results day on Monday. Do you have plans to do more here? Probably yes. Let's be honest. Can I comment on that today? No. I cannot say who I want to invest or buy or integrate or merge because my big priority Just Eat Takeaway for 2 reasons. One, I want the European Commission has to talk first. It's not my time to talk, it's time to listen from then. But there's a second reason, Just Eat Takeaway is the foundation. If I have a company with 70 million customers that are used many times, we have a very good technology.

I can expand this ecosystem not only investing in someone, but creating value faster. So that's my big priority. I'm going to do that. And then next time we meet, I'm going to talk more, hopefully, we'll be able to talk more about that.

That's what I could share about Just Eat Takeaway today, open for questions. However, we have a start today here that we hope you enjoy. So I'd like to ask here, let me see, yes, OLX. A lot of our growth in terms of EBIT came in from OLX. We have Christian here today. Hope you enjoy his presentation. So Christian, please come here.

[Presentation]

Hello, everybody. Thank you for having me here. And obviously, Fabricio introduced me. So thank you very much, Fabricio. So my name is Christian. I joined OLX about 15 months ago, and I have the pleasure of presenting you OLX today.

OLX is a leasing business with 9 markets which we are in, most of them, we are a market leader. We have 9 brands that we are entertaining in different categories. And we have been able to grow across the last couple of years, as you can see, from about USD 485 million to this year USD 777 million. We have been able to do this also by scaling our profitability to now 35% EBITDA margin, which means that our business is not only a business that grows fast, but it's also a business that obviously with the scalability is able to continue to drive the margin.

On the back of our very clear strategy, and I'll come to that in a second. We have also raised our ambition level. The ambition level as you've seen in the video, means that we are expecting ourselves to grow in the near future and also in the longer-term future by 20-plus percent per year in terms of revenue growth. And we're expecting also to reach a EBIT margins of 50% plus across the next couple of years on the back of the scalability.

So now let me give you a better understanding of what the group looks like and also what our focus is. We are focusing on 3 categories, 3 main categories, which is Jobs, Motors and Real Estate. Obviously, verticals that are very well known to most of you who have been following classifieds for a while. We are doing so by now also pivoting away from what we call C2C, which used to be general classifieds towards more a B2C-driven business because it allows a far better monetization.

If you look into the slides, you will see that the core categories have been growing much stronger than the noncore categories, namely 22% for the core and 10% for the noncore. And what you can also see is that the core categories are delivering far higher EBIT margins than the noncore are delivering. This is clearly depicted from the fact that the monetization of the B2C customer is something that helps very much not only the growth, but obviously also the margins.

The second thing that we are entertaining which you can't see on this slide is that within the clear strategy and within the move of B2C, we have also started to align our platforms. We are running in certain countries or in most of our countries, we're running a horizontal distribution channel, as I call it, and we're also running a vertical distribution channel. And what we're doing now is we are aligning the horizontal with a vertical to make sure that the content, the inventory on both sides, that the customers on both sides are having the best and beneficial experience, which on the user side helps obviously for lead generation and traffic. And on the customer side, obviously, the lead delivery and obviously, the faster and the better sale of cars, houses and obviously also finding new jobs.

Now let me go one deeper into the different categories, starting with Motors. Motors is our largest and obviously more successful categories -- category that we're having. We have been growing, as you can see, Motors across the last couple of years on a very successful level in the general around mid-20s, which is something that we want to continue going forward. It is a leading destination on the verticals as well on the horizontal in most of our countries. And this is something that we are not only keeping, but that's exactly where we have this end-to-end accountability where we make sure that the person who runs motors has clear accountability for the overall product and also on tech stacks that we're having on the verticals and on the horizontals.

The way we drive it is obviously, we are very much focused towards business customers, but also we are also very much focused on to our user experience. The business customers, just to give you a bit of an example, obviously, we are a product and we are a customer company. So the products that we're introducing to the market is something that we have either the user to better choose and transact. And obviously, the dealer in this case, to turn his inventory faster because inventory fast turn means that they have less on their lot. And obviously, less on the lot means they have less working capital, which allows them to also show greater profit margins, which obviously, we then can monetize.

So on the one hand, you have a dealer tool. And as you can see, the product that we are delivering allows for higher weekly adoptions. It also creates a multi-use account for large dealers, which is for them a big help because it allows them to monitor their overall inventory, which is something that we have just created. And as you can see, this has been rising by 10x just in 1 year, given the fact that the large dealers like to adopt these sort of products.

On the buyer side, on the user side, the ad to AI posting is something that has become very popular. So that means that basically, the user can from the ads create and own AI video which obviously gives them another way of looking at the car. So those are just 2 products that we have launched. There's car history report for users. We are getting far deeper into the CRM tools also for dealers. So we are working a lot on product to basically make sure that our customers on the one hand, but also our users are not only more engaged, but also are returning to us more often.

The second largest category with us is real estate. Real estate, again, we are, in most of our countries, the market leader in terms of the horizontal, but also in terms of the vertical. And we are doing this with a numerous number of brands. As you can see, real estate has been growing across the last couple of years with somewhere averaging high teens. And this is a category where we believe we can do more and where we are expecting growth to exceed 20% again across the next couple of years.

So this is something where we are on the path of growth acceleration. And we have since about 6 to 9 months started with monetization initiatives. I'd like to call out that one of the monetization initiatives, as you can see, has led to an ARPI increase of 44% from March to May 2025. That means that basically the way we have been offering agents, the way they can present themselves and the way that we have monetized led to a 44% increase in the average revenue that we are deriving from insertions.

On the other side, we have also started to work on message inbox revamp. And I think the most important element there is the 40% seller reply rate that is up. And on the other side, also becoming far more efficient, namely, the reply time is down. So this, again, is something that we are working constantly on and as you can see, there are a couple of more initiatives that are coming like the geo-based offering, the new value-added services product to it. So we are, at the moment, revamping the whole real estate with new products, with new offerings that are fitting the users and are fitting our business customers. And therefore, we are very hopeful of increasing our revenues across the next couple of years by more than 20%.

Jobs is the youngest category that we're having and Jobs is something that we are aware of the cyclicality of the category, but this is something where the AI and you've heard a lot of AI that Euro has presented, and we are working very closely with Euro and the iFood team on this overall AI topic and AI is something that we will be very much using in the jobs category going forward.

The Jobs category is something, as you can see, which on the right-hand side, we are very much reshaping the Jobs market. It's about matchmaking. It's about creating far more efficiency on the employer side. It's helping our blue collar worker because the blue collar is a space where we are to do CV passing. So we are helping them to basically present themselves to the employer in a much better way. And that's where the AI is helping quite a lot.

We have now started also to extend ourselves more into other industries, which are more getting us into gray and white which, as you can see, is banking and insurance. And this is something which is very promising and where we also see as a category is growing very strongly going forward.

If I wrap this all up, we have a significant room to continue to grow our revenues and also of the profitability. The 3 main pillars on which we are basing this which is nothing unknown for the classified that's clearly pricing. The second is volume. Volume means that our agents, we are acquiring more agents, more dealers and more employers, they will put also more inventory on us. So this is the second pillar. And the third pillar is the product enhancement. With all the products that we are referring to, will allow to also monetize and create new packages, which again will help us to continue to drive revenues by 20% plus across next couple of years, reaching an EBIT margin of 50% plus across the next couple of years.

One of the things that I think needs to be mentioned because it's something that will also continue to support us, is what we believe we can also extract from the ecosystem synergies, which are certainly lying very much on the general classifieds in the goods and the services space. And we will, on the panel talk about it, but we are already entertaining with eMAG certain ideas of what we can exchange to try to make this ecosystem work much better because we having used goods, they having new goods. So the question is, can we inject goods into each other and then see how the consumer is reacting to it. So those are lot of elements that we're going to test.

We have already started the electronics refurbishment with Flip, which is a daughter of eMAG where we are already introducing ourselves and introducing this to our customers with a little test in Romania, which is going very nicely. And obviously, together with Europe, we are very much working on the large commerce model and seeing what from -- especially from the horizontal, we can deliver to make the large commerce model also in that space, far more vibrant. Thank you.

Now we have a panel, and let me welcome very much [ Monique ], who is going to moderate the panel. Thank you very much for being with us. And obviously, my fellow colleagues Tudor and Orkun, the CEO of eMAG and the CEO of iyzico.

Perfect. Excellent. Well, thank you, Christian and thank you Fabricio for the bigger overview on building the European ecosystem. I think given we've just heard from you, Christian, and we haven't heard as much in the past on both the iyzico business and the eMAG business. Maybe we can kick off with a few questions for Tudor and Orkun, and we'll then hand it over to questions from the floor.

So Tudor, maybe if I can start with you, the eMAG business had a really exciting year. 2025 inflected to profitability with strong growth. Maybe you can talk a bit about some of the key drivers and what's in store for '26?

Yes, FY '25 was a very good year for us. Basically, what we did is look at our portfolio because we've made a lot of investments post pandemic and we decided to accelerate what really works and divest from the areas that we figure they will not produce long-term profitability and growth.

So we accelerated a lot on the marketplace model, the regional marketplace. And here, especially, we accelerated the fulfilled marketplace where the business doubled year-over-year. Then we accelerated a lot our loyalty program called Genius. Here, the number of paid subscribers grew by 50%.

And last but not least, we accelerated a lot out-of-home network. We built an out-of-home local network, which we grew by 40% last year. We grew from something like to -- from 5,000 points to 7,000 out-of-home points. Looking to the future, we feel that next year, in FY '26 to these 3 pillars, we will also add the Fintech arm, which should boost a lot of the marketplace GMV.

Excellent. So as you mentioned, next year, you're going to be working on the fintech arm. And given we're talking about the European ecosystem, Will there be an opportunity for you to work with Orkun. Are there learnings you can take from the iyzico business that will help you with your FinTech journey?

We've been working a lot with Orkun and also with Anirban from PayU. What we've learned from them until now is how to set up a business in a regulated environment like payments and credit. We also took from them a lot of insights related to how to structure the technology for such a different product. And last but not least, in terms of user experience, how to present the BNPL product or payments of wallet product to the consumers.

Excellent. And Orkun, maybe if we turn to you in the iyzico business. Given this sort of wealth of opportunity, I would imagine that you see available in your home market of Turkey, whether that's the size of the population, the online penetration in a market like Turkey, how do you balance sort of growth in the home market against thinking about growth opportunities within the broader European ecosystem potentially starting with Central and Eastern Europe?

Thank you, [ Monique ]. First of all, we would like to continue, of course, our growth pace in our home market, Turkey. Last year, we could grow our business revenues, 87% in local currency. And how we will continue this pace. We will continue to nurture our ecosystem, e-commerce ecosystem by serving our merchants but also our consumers.

Right now, our consumer base, too, is using iyzico digital wallet in Turkey and iyzico as a payment method reached to 7 million, is reaching nowadays to 7 million. So right now, we are not only proposing our merchants accepting payments, but managing their financial services via iyzico also doing campaigns, cashback campaigns, but cashback campaigns like Diego explained this morning in a very smart way, but also helping our consumers not only to pay with credit card, but with different other methods in a secure way, in a protected way or also using some other alternative payment methods or open banking technologies.

Also this year, last year, we could test our in-store solutions. We won't be only on online, but we'll also follow our merchants who has off-line presence to help them increase their sales in their stores. So I think that it will be a scale-up year for especially in-store for Turkey.

On the other hand, thanks to Prosus European ecosystem, we are also -- we are always discussing, but we will continue to discuss how to maybe to use our existing iyzico products like issuing white label wallet, digital wallet, e-money capabilities outside of Turkey on different group companies or group ecosystems to better serve our ecosystem.

Great. And so when you think about that and you make the parallel to some of the things Diego was talking about earlier with iFood. So do you see there's a big potential if the Just Eat -- when the Just Eat Takeaway transaction closes to work with them as well?

I see as -- after the regulatory approvals, I think that as they have a very strong ecosystem, I think that we can learn from each other, and we can share some of the best practices that we are using at iyzico, even some products that we have already built at iyzico in order to serve their ecosystem. They have 3 parties, consumers, restaurants, riders, ecosystem. And I think that we have the different product sets, financial product sets in order to help them to nurture this ecosystem. The discussions are ongoing in the discovery phase.

Understood. And Tudor, maybe if we come back to that loyalty scheme that you have, the Genius loyalty scheme. So I think you've got now 1 million paid subscribers in Romania and that you're trialing it, you're doing free trials in some other markets. So just wondering what you're finding the Genius loyalty customers, what they like, what they don't like, if there have been learnings from the iFood Club program that you've been able to bring across.

Yes. So we built -- we started Genius, I think, 4 years ago, and it started as basically a prepayment for free delivery. And in time, it grew to an ecosystem loyalty scheme like Fabricio showed earlier on stage. So basically, now a user receives delivery returns, priority in customer care, he receives dedicated offers from all the businesses within eMAG Group.

Looking to the collaboration with iFood, what we learned from them were some very good tactics in customer acquisition. So from the learnings we've had, we will grow our targets for new customers in FY '26 compared with what we delivered in FY '25. And also, now we are working on some insights related to personalization. Also like what Fabricio showed earlier, the personalization, which is done for a loyalty user, it's very interesting what was built in iFood, and we will adopt this within eMAG through the LCM.

Excellent. And maybe one for you, Christian. Earlier in the year when we had the deep dive on OLX. You talked -- or you hinted at the opportunities of some learnings you could take from the eMAG business when it came to your Pay & Ship and sort of capitalizing on the goods opportunity. So just wondered if there had been more collaboration since then between OLX and eMAG or if that was more sort of slated for 2026?

So we started and what we're doing at the moment is we are aligning on the same day because of the lockers is something that is of high interest to us. We had to postpone a bit because on both sides, there are other things that we were prioritizing, but this is one of the things that we are working on.

But I think the more important thing as well is, I think, is getting more understanding around the listings. So how can we sort of share inventory? Because again, we are C2C and is more B2C. So the question is, can we inject stuff into each other. We need to understand what is the customer overlap. And this is something that we need to work on and that we have decided to work on to make sure that we're really capturing what is really important in the ecosystem because I think this is going to drive really revenue. This will help us in the margin. And the logistics is something that basically to me, sits behind, which will help us to basically be more better deliverer to our customers.

Excellent. Okay. So I think we're happy to take some questions from the floor if people have questions for.

Nadim Mohamed from Standard Bank Securities. Just a question for Christian. It seems like you've deprioritized Pay & Ship and it looks like deprioritized horizontal platforms in general. Just would like to understand what the future is of that business and how you're thinking about it going forward?

Yes. So I think -- so to come back, we have not deprioritized, but we have started to focus on what we are really good at. And I think Pay & Ship is nothing we're good at. That's the reason why I think cooperation with eMAG and others, iyzico and others around payment makes a lot of sense. When you get to the horizontal, there's not the prioritization.

What we are using now the horizontal is, obviously, we have very strong elements being real estate, motors and jobs, which we want to keep and we want to use the traffic in a much better way than we did. So we need -- that's the reason why we are aligning the whole product and tech stack across the vertical and horizontal. So there's no deprioritization of that at all. It's just making more use and better use of the traffic because that's a lead generator that we can monetize.

Marcus, yes.

Marcus Diebel from JPMorgan. Two questions for Christian on Classifieds. The first one, is on M&A. Clearly, I mean, there's a lot of talk about Food Delivery and the synergies that you have. Clearly not asking sort of like what targets are, but it feels like there's at least big opportunity in Europe. A lot of assets are up for sale, different size, different holders. What would be sort of like your idea? Is it really that you can bring a high degree of synergies even in new markets? Or is it that you maybe a bit more cautious given where valuations are? I just want to get a bit more feeling what Prosus currently thinks about M&A in classifieds? And then I have one more question.

So the first what we have seen is it is built on organic. So our whole plan is built on organic growth. Obviously, as always, if M&A comes up, it's something that we'll look at. What I always say is big is not a quality in itself. It only makes sense if there is top line synergies they can derived.

This morning, it was already said that, Diego said, we don't think about cost synergies, which is right. Our businesses are growth businesses, and you only do a transaction if you see top line synergies. So if there would be some and valuation would also be, let's say, adequate, maybe our shareholder would allow us to do a transaction.

Perfect. And then second question is just on investments, organic on the assets that you have. Where are we in terms of investments? I mean in Classified, it's obvious that there's a period of investments and hopefully, you harvest a bit later when margins go up. Where are we in the process portfolio? Do you feel that there are still meaningful investments coming? Or is it now the time that we should also get even more excited about the classifieds margins going forward?

But the way I was presenting it is that there's a lot of scalability. And if there is scalability means that basically, we have investments, but we are able to monetize those investments at a higher rate. So therefore, I would suggest that the investment that we have done are some that we are catching up in terms of value and others where we are investing right now will allow us to continue to monetize. That's the reason why you see that margin expansion from now roughly 35% towards 50 and more.

It's Will Packer from BNP Paribas Exane. Just following up on the Pay & Ship comments. Is it right to think that Pay & Ship penetration of your horizontal businesses declined and stalled? And has that been an important driver of the margin expansion? A bit more color there would be helpful.

So it isn't stalled. It was a conscious decision ourselves to deprioritize to make sure that we are driving profits because Pay & Ship in the end of the day is a subsidizing business, at least in our case. So we came very clearly to the conclusion that it's better to keep it, and we are doing it, but at a much lower level because we don't need to subsidize that appraise. And that's the reason why you probably -- you are hinting towards the growth on the noncore categories, which has to do with the fact that we have deprioritized Pay & Ship.

And in that context, how is traffic holding up versus your competitors? Is it having an impact?

It doesn't have any impact because those are the things that we're monitoring. So before we did it, we obviously did certain tests because I had certain -- or we had certain ideas around it. And we can -- we saw very clearly that there is no traffic loss that we are incurring in the space. The traffic to us is not on the Pay & Ship. The traffic to us is the 64 million daily listings, the inventory, the freshness of the inventory. That is what really matters on the general Classifieds if you think about the horizontal.

Giles Thorne from Jefferies. A question for Tudor. If the power of the ecosystem is so strong, why did you sell Tazz?

Yes, good question. So Tazz for us, it was subscale. So it was from a technology standpoint, the investment that needed to be done there were huge but important for us was the ecosystem. And we sold it in a manner in which the current owner is still part of the ecosystem for the foreseeable future. So the Genius customer still benefit from the Tazz now Wolt offering. And we don't get to -- let's say, to pay the bill for it.

It's Andrew Ross from Barclays. One more question. Just to put some context around the 20% revenue growth you're talking about going forward. Can you just remind us what the take rate is in your markets, I guess, if you think about it as a percentage of gross profits or commission pool. Are we kind of talking about monetization gap compared to Western Europe, that's easy to close or just kind of put some context around what drives that 20% growth?

Andrew, it's a take rate conversation as always. I mean if you look into the market who we are, those are markets that are developing. So the take rate today compared to what you would see in, let's say, Western part of Europe is still low. But the margins and the money the dealers and agents are making in those countries is still large. So it's on a one end, it's a catch-up. It's surprising. Then obviously, the volume, as I was saying. So we don't have all the dealers and all the agents albeit we are the #1. So there's a lot of inventory that we can still get on which we will be monetizing.

And the third one is obviously the product enhancement, which will allow us to tap more into the commission pool and all the gross profit margin of the dealer.

Robert Vink from Kepler Cheuvreux. First, I have a question for Iyzico. Could you give us a bit more color on the merchant mix on the types of payments that you're processing, so like large tech platforms or digital versus in-person? And what are kind of the key growth drivers in growth areas in your company. If you could give some more color on that?

And then a question for eMag. Of course, a strong position in Romania. But what is kind of the international expansion strategy. I think you're expanding into Bulgaria, into Hungary, and do you have maybe plans in the future to expand it to more markets? So what is kind of the long-term gain there?

Thank you. First of all, for the merchant mix, just to give you the magnitude, we are -- we processed last year, more than $7 billion volume in our platform. Our merchant mix is like all the global brands who are operating e-commerce in Turkey, large marketplaces, from East and West from China and U.S. operating in Turkey, they are all working with us.

If we are buying a T-shirt in e-commerce in Turkey, there is a 90% chance that you are paying with iyzico. If you are buying a sneaker in Turkey, there is 100% chance that you are buying -- you are paying with iyzico with all the sneaker brands that you all know they are working with us, but not only global or large Turkish brands, we have more than 120,000 merchants in our platform, which means that 99% of our base is small and medium enterprises in Turkey who are doing online commerce.

The key pillars today, it was growing e-commerce in Turkey and also our growing merchant base, also more global brands coming to Turkey, for example, last 3 years, all international car dealers in Turkey, they are accepting in advanced payments when you reserve a car, and almost all of them are working with iyzico electrical cars or classical cars. For the future, what we are looking, we are now, as I said, we are discovering -- we discovered especially. We are following our merchants. Most of our merchants, they have offline presences too. Last year, we tested lots of off-line payment products. We have partnership or some of them are own. We have now presence in their stores, and we will scale this presence to help our merchants on this one.

So we have a strong presence in Romania, where within our ecosystem, there are, let's say, 6 businesses, offering value to consumers. While in Bulgaria and in Hungary, we have 2 businesses, so we have eMag and same day, the courier business offering value to the ecosystem. Soon, we will start with Vault in food delivery in Bulgaria and in Hungary. And related to expansion, we see that the ecosystem, all 6 businesses and adding more will create value for the consumer. So on the very, let's say, short to medium term, the priorities for us is to enhance the value that the ecosystem brings in Bulgaria and Hungary. And related to other markets we are constantly looking, and if opportunities will arise, yes, we will take them.

Perfect. I think in the interest of time, we're going to have to leave it there. But thank you very much, Christian, Orkun and Tudor for that overview of the European eco system.

Thank you, Monique.

Thank you very much.

[Presentation]

Good afternoon, everybody. I really trust that you've had an enjoyable day so far and that it's been most insightful. I've been with the group for yes, more than 26 years. And during which time, we've transformed into the global e-commerce technology company that we are today.

The pace of change that we've seen has never been faster than in the last year. Fabricio, Diego, Ashu, they all talked about our strategy to build out ecosystems in the key geographies that we're covering. My goal today is to tie it all together with the financials and to show you how we expect to continue to scale the business profitably and not just incrementally but to accelerate. We've moved from deep losses just 2 years ago to more than $400 million in e-commerce profitability today.

And as Fabricio outlined, we will be in the billions in just a couple of years. And as you've just heard from the intro video, me and my finance team, we're not just here to count the beans. We are here to enable growth of the group, but we want to do that with discipline. And in doing so, we need to create real value for you, our shareholders. I know I'm talking to an audience of numbers people. So I hope you'll be as excited as I am. So let's get started.

I think a good place to start is what are my priorities? And where will I be focusing my attention and energy and effort. As the results have shown, we are fully committed to sustained and profitable growth. We will look to invest and to fund our growth, and we will do that with the necessary discipline required. That's what we've done over the last couple of years, and you've seen some of that results, that continues.

I will ensure that we maintain an optimal capital structure. And we'll have to sometimes make the necessary trade-offs to do that, but I can assure you we'll do that with discipline. We're here to deliver value to you as shareholders. So increasing our free cash flow and sharing more with that with you over time is going to be very important.

And then in discussion with many of you, you've highlighted the difficulty that you sometimes have in valuing us. My goal is to achieve the valuation that we deserve. And to do that, to ensure that our financials and the disclosures are aligned with this goal. I will come back to that in more detail.

So please be in no doubt, we are committed to this peer-leading profitable growth. You've heard from the team today about all the various excellent opportunities that our businesses and our investments have -- and by connecting that together in the regional ecosystems and how that can drive value for us all. And our vision here is not just to take part, but actually lead and create that. The good news is we're well on our way.

Today, we are growing faster or double the pace than most of our peers, and that's primarily driven by the excellent growth coming out of OLX as well as iFood and our payments platforms. You've seen today that the runway for growth at iFood specifically is substantial. Diego showed that excellent slide showing how they've layered new opportunities on top of others. And so on building the business. You've seen iFood Pago, Maquinona and its dine-in offering, all of those things driving incremental value for the business. And you've seen some of that coming through strongly in our FY '25 financials. This will continue to add more and more value to that ecosystem.

And likewise, Christian has just shown with his team at OLX, how they're rolling out new products and offerings to our partners across the key verticals of real estate, hotels and jobs. These offerings have been a major contributor, not only to the revenue growth, but a substantial margin enhancement that you've seen at OLX. PayU has now fulfilled all the complex regulatory requirements of -- in India that had to go through. And the team is now fully focused and aligned and can concentrate on growth and profitability. It's a real priority for us in an important region and there's much potential, as Ashu outlined. So I'm confident we will continue to grow strongly and reach our ambition of doubling our revenue by 2028, as Fabricio outlined earlier, that includes the JET acquisition from FY '27 onwards.

With revenue nicely on track, we've established now a 3-year track record of improving our profitability. And we have the full intention to continue on that curve. In 3 years, we've improved our e-commerce profitability by more than $800 million, bringing us to $655 million on an adjusted EBITDA basis for 2025. And this speaks really to the operating leverage and efficiencies that drove the product expansion across the portfolio. And we're not resting at this point, and we'll do more as the teams have shown throughout the day to expand margins further from here.

On the next slide, you can see that we've already improved margins by 15 percentage points over the last 3 years. While our revenue growth is outpacing our peers, margins remain lower, and that's the opportunity that we now see in the next 3 years ahead of us to really step that up. Let me give you a couple of examples.

The core food delivery margin for iFood is 28% on an adjusted EBIT basis. If you look at the iFood business on its consolidated level, it's about 17%. Why? We're still investing in a fintech and iFood Pago initiatives, as well as meal vouchers and a number of other things. That can clearly only grow from this point forward. Similarly, with OLX, it's gone from 25% on an adjusted EBITDA basis to 35%. And Christian showed you that his ambition is 50% in the next few years. And I will take you through how we see that unfolding in a few minutes.

So the teams have taken you through some of the individual plans throughout the day that will help to improve and drive the growth and margin expansion I'm talking about. So rolling it all up from a financial standpoint, I see 3 areas for us to focus and hit our goals. First, we need to continue to invest in the businesses that are front runners and winners to date. iFood, OLX and iyzico, all have funded plans and have the ambition to do a lot more.

Secondly, we will continue to support those businesses with that have unrealized potential or have experienced some challenges of late. eMAG and PayU are very much on the right track at the moment. I have strong and solid plans in place to improve from here. and I expect meaningful results in the next 3 years.

And finally, we will continue to invest in building the ecosystems. You've seen that we've closed the Despegar transaction and we showcased how we already are working fast to integrate and just make that business better. And of course, we're seeking to bring Just Eat Takeaway into the family. Just Eat has leading and profitable assets in significant markets. And you've heard from Fabricio about our plans to reignite some of the graph in there.

So moving on very importantly, with improved profitability and growth and margins, we need to deliver cash flow. So that's a real true driver for me of value. We've increased our free cash flow over the last 3 years by more than $1 billion. And we've reached an important milestone that Prosus reached ex Tencent its first positive free cash flow in the past financial year. So it's another example of the Prosus of today is quite fundamentally a different company from just a few years ago. And as we continue to scale, the cash flow should grow with the profitability.

Ecosystems will drive that, and that also obviously enable us to share more of that with you as shareholders. I mentioned upfront that we look to invest and fund our future growth, and we will need to do that with a necessary discipline. That's an easy word to just say but it's a core principle for me, and I do believe, we can do both. As a follow-on, the group has a strong foundation in the current capital structure that we have. And we'll make certain trade-offs. But I think as you can see from the next slide, we have a long-dated profile in our debt. And our cash position remains very healthy despite the funds that's already been reserved for the JET transaction.

Turning to the next slide. And I know there's probably some debt investors in the audience. You can see the -- firstly, we remain committed to our investment grade rating. And our operating businesses continue to perform well. So improving the quality of our debt profile as our dividend stream from our businesses up to the center will improve, will just further enhance our debt capacity and debt profile. We have some upcoming maturities. These are, as you can see on the previous slide, very manageable. And we have options at our disposal to sort of refinance and enhance our profile from here on.

Let's now look at the area that receives rightly a lot of attention from the investment community, capital allocation. We have been clear that our priority is to deploy our capital in the ecosystems, focusing on generating strong returns.

Our capital allocation matrix looks as follows: firstly, we will invest behind our ecosystems, making both big and small checks to optimize returns. If we can find assets in the regions that will further strengthen these ecosystems, offering scale, improving technologies and obviously, it needs to come at a reasonable valuation. As has been the case with both Despegar and Just Eat Takeaway.

Similarly, we will invest in frontier technologies and innovative companies with product services or technologies that can -- that we can deploy across our regional ecosystems. That will help us run faster and better. These are actually ought to be smaller check sizes. And importantly, we will continue to invest in ourselves through the open-ended share buyback. That has meaningfully also impacted and helped narrowing our discount.

Just to remind you, this locks in value actually on a daily basis as we increase our exposure, not just the Tencent, but also to the rest of the underlying portfolio.

In the next slide, we show our capital allocation at work. And we've deployed almost $8 billion of cash in the last 12 months, investing mainly in enhancing the ecosystem through the JET and Despegar transactions. But also, we've also backed innovation that can actually accelerate some of these aspects. And 2 examples of that is, one, Anirban spoke about the Mindgate acquisition in India, and we also did Paynet in iyzico in Turkey.

So we've actually done quite a bit here and have done it in a disciplined and thoughtful manner as I've just outlined. And while we've added to our portfolio through the acquisitions that we've made, I think we've also been quite disciplined in the last 12 months. We have reduced our exposure in various other areas. We've taken some decisive actions to actually dispose of businesses that either don't fit within the portfolio or doesn't meet actually a returns profile. And in total, we've crystallized $2.6 billion of value.

On this slide, I'm showing you that whilst the group have made significant investments, we have -- we actually believe that returning capital to our shareholders is as important. And this is the trend over the last 7 years. Over this time frame, our open-ended share buyback as well as the cash buybacks that we've done before that returned more than $50 billion of capital to shareholders and reduced the process free float by 36%. To put the $50 billion in context, just a few weeks ago, that was almost half our market cap. This is a significant sum. And our current program remains one of the largest in the tech space as a percentage of shares outstanding.

Similarly, then as part of our ongoing journey of capital returns, we obviously need to look at dividends. And given our strengthening free cash flow position, we are able to share more with shareholders. We've doubled our dividend this year coming from a historically low base, but we clearly have the ambition as our free cash flow grow to share more with shareholders and enhance your returns through dividends that we will declare.

So now let's turn to the discount, and I will start by saying that this reducing the discount is -- has been and remains a key priority. And we seek to address that really in 3 ways. The first one, which I think is very important, probably the most important one is that we need to continue to scale these businesses within the ecosystems that we're back in, growing revenue ahead of our peers, expanding the margins, as I've spoken about and generating free cash flow. That is what will make -- get us to a position where we're really into [Prosus] plus situation like Fabricio outlined this morning in his slides.

Secondly, we will continue to highlight the value in our portfolio for increased disclosures and telling and sharing more with the investment community like we started recently with some of the deep dives that our IR team has done and through days like this. And thirdly, we will continue to optimize the value and create NAV for shareholders through the share repurchase program and other forms of capital return as I present themselves.

So let me dig a little bit deeper into these buckets. Let's talk very specifically about the first one. And you've heard Fabricio talking about his desire to double revenue by 2028. And throughout the day, you've heard from the teams talking about the drivers of growth.

And I'm actually just recapping it all here. This implies that we will more than double our revenue by '28, and it essentially then accounts to an organic growth rate of between 15% and 20%. And just to be clear, this includes Despegar from June 2025. And we've assumed just an assumption at this stage. Just Eat Takeaway, we've only included it from FY '27 onwards. And here, you can see the revenue contribution from the various regions as we see it in. And all the regions with LatAm and Europe expecting to grow more than 2x. And on India, PayU, we've been appropriately more conservative as the business stands itself around.

You've heard from Diego, LatAm growth for the next 3 years will really be driven by all the various growth initiatives that he's highlighted. And in Europe, a lot of it will come through OLX and hopefully JET from 2027.

And then lastly, I think we're optimistic about the measures and changes that's been put in place at PayU India as Anirban described, and we expect a significant improvement and growth.

Looking then at the profitability. Here, our intention is actually to triple our EBITDA in the same period. That will again require iFood, OLX and other business like eMag and PayU to start making meaningful contributions, right? That profitability, here's, again, just the regional expectations. You can see that LatAm Europe and, by far, the leading contributions and India, we forecasted more modestly. We've given ourselves ambitious, but what we think are achievable targets. And Fabricio will say, we ought to aim for a lot more and he's right. And we're doing this so that I think you can hold us accountable as we aim to deliver on our commitment of profitable growth.

We're not just doing that, but I think -- to give you the understanding that process in our business will evolve quite substantially over the next few years and that is more an investment in Tencent. And that the rest of our e-commerce portfolio can create real value for you. So talking about valuations.

Moving then to the second bucket, I think we are committed to also make the business simpler and easier to understand and value. And sharing information like today is part of that process. It's a request that I often hear from investors as well, and I'm committed to actually help you on that journey. So to help shed more light on evaluations of our businesses, on this slide, I've shared with you what the analysts ranges are of the various businesses.

I've shown iFood and OLX as the 2 largest ones and then the rest of our nonlisted e-commerce businesses in the third bucket. And what you can see from this slide is that the valuations of our 2 largest owned investments, they're actually valued far below where many of the listed peers trade. In some cases, like iFood, this is despite having industry-leading revenue growth as well as margins. And OLX margins are actually showing, they're growing ahead of most peers and their margins are catching up rapidly, as you've seen from the presentation that Christian gave. So in our view, these seem to be very conservatively valued by the market.

Now I hope that by sharing more information we can have constructive conversations about our businesses and assist them you to value them better and for us to make it simpler and easier for you to understand the value.

And lastly, the buyback. The share buyback has had a significant impact over the last 3 years. I've shared with you how that has enhanced NAV by 15%. It's put more than $15 billion back in the hands of our shareholders, and we will continue the buyback. That is our intention. So I started a day with my priorities. And hopefully, you can see how those priorities hopefully will translate into us achieving many of our objectives.

I hope you feel that you have a clear view of how we shall achieve the ambitious targets and accelerating revenue growth and improved profitability that we are aiming for. And thank you for coming, and thank you for listening, and I look forward to answering your questions in the Q&A session.

All right. We are going to switch now to the Q&A section. So could I have all of our leaders up and let's get this done. It's the last of the day and the thing in between the cocktails and us.

Joe you had your hand up nice and quickly. So let's get this started. Is everybody ready? Last part of the day?

It's Joe Barnet-Lamb from UBS. I've got a couple. My first one, you spoke about food and payments as the foundational layer of the ecosystem strategy due to frequency of purchase. In Lat Am, you obviously have incredibly strong assets in those areas in Brazil, but less so outside. How important is food or payments to that foundational layer can it work without them? And if not, what are your ambitions in LatAm beyond Brazil?

We have very good assets in Brazil, as you said. In India, we have Swiggy that is a very good asset. And we have PayU is the clear leader as you saw today. In Europe, we expect to close a very good asset that is just that we just did, it has very good foundation. So we have some payment business in India, but in very specific locations, for example, iyzico in Turkey only. But to my point, I don't think we are -- in Brazil, it is stronger. I think we will have a stronger position around over the next 1 year too.

Sorry, just to clarify, sorry, I mean in LatAm, outside of Brazil, i.e., you've got food and payments in Brazil. You've now got a whole lot of other ecosystem stuff like outside of Brazil, but that foundational layer you don't have outside of Brazil.

Yes, yes, good. Now I got your question. I preferred when I didn't want before.

You asked for a hard question. I'm here for it.

You are right. Our first goal, I think, is to execute that with exceptionally well in Brazil. To remind you, Despegar has a very strong position outside Brazil too. We don't have food delivery out to Brazil, you're right. So good question. Yes, good question.

That's it. Nothing to add. I mean, priority now is Brazil. If we crack Brazil, we have the playbook to go to the other countries.

Got it. Then second question, you talked about ramping dividends and obviously having increased them 100% this year. Now e-commerce obviously is not a drain. What's dictating the rate of dividend ramp? Is there any specific ambition to pass through the $0.10 dividend? Or do you just look at it each year based on the priorities of that year? I'm just thinking like yes, why 100% this year? Why not more, why not less?

Why do you think so small? Just the Tencent. We're going to be much more than Tencent. Prosus plus Tencent. But what dictates the reason is our strategic priorities is the opportunities that are available for us. And the Board should say that's the way we want to keep expanding our dividend. So I don't think -- many of you suggest that we should have like a playbook on how we do capital allocation for the next 5 years. I think this would reduce our strategic flexibility substantially. I think the real thing behind that is there is a lack of trust that we can take the decisions with discipline. We're not going to have like a playbook. That's how we do.

We distribute 100% of [indiscernible], 40 or 50 or 60. We are going to keep looking to the opportunities. We postponed, for example, some decisions for 6 months. So we could analyze better the environment. It was quite good. Many of you suggested we should distribute the cash we had 6 months ago. I think we used it in 2 transactions that I'm quite confident are going to have a very good IRR, you have to keep assessing that. I think you should give us a little credit because now it's 100%. So it's good, let's celebrate for like at least 1 week. And then we will hopefully we will increase our EBITDA a lot, as you saw. Tencent is going to keep growing a lot. We reduce our costs, and we will check if we should invest it somehow growing, we would. If you can distribute more in terms of dividends or buybacks, we would.

But I think -- and that's the way the Board sees that if you take a decision like that 1 to 3 years in advance, it's not smart, in a normal world. In our current word, it's impossible. Like no one can predict what's going to happen next week. We're talking about the news this week. No one can predict what is happening right now. If you refresh our news, you don't know what's happening in the world right now.

It doesn't make sense to us, say, this is our capital allocation for 3 years and lack this capability. I understand there is lack of trust for now. We are going to keep showing results. And I think if you look at the last 1 year, we took good decisions in terms of distributing results, increasing dividends, reducing costs, if you keep doing that for some time, thinking only about Tencent is going to be small.

George Wood from United First Partners. I was hoping that you could answer this quick question about the EC's recent developments of -- well, I'll get straight to the question. If the EC requires you to divest your delivery here stake, will you be happy to do that? And have you thought about how you will do that if that is the requirement that they make to completely Just Eat Takeaway?

The lawyers, they are great to run away, take you out and throw you away from here. So beware of this kind of question.

That's why he wore a tie.

He tried to sneak it, prepare for everything. We can't comment on that. That's all. We feel that everything ahead of time. They're going to answer in a few weeks. We are confident we are going to create a bigger European leader. I know that's what's written. I should keep on the written thing until European Commission says something. Sorry, next time, I will talk more. Sorry who are you?

It's Will Packer from BNP Paribas. So a couple of quick ones. So Tencent your most important asset and the stake is now below 25%, you're committed to the discount, which is now per share accretive. On the other hand, as your stake shrinks, your influence at Tencent could fall and it's an overhang for Tencent and its shareholders. You're committed to the buyback while the discount is elevated. Could you remind us what that means?

And then the second question is, you've got $11 billion to spend. Can you give us color on the priority areas by geography and segment, having given us so much detail today.

This is an easy question. I could answer, but because it's Nico's birthday. Maybe Nico you can answer this question.

I'll start with your second question. I think as I've covered on a capital allocation perspective, the focus for larger checks will be within the ecosystems that we discussed. Now that can make that is not just better, smaller checks, frontier technologies and so that's the focus. Longer term, but for now, we need to settle Despegar and we actually need to complete the Jet Eat Takeaway transaction as well. So that's a more short-term focus.

In terms of the discount element, look, we think the discount is still too high. There's more we can do. And I think I've outlined the 3 things around that, that we want to focus on to do that. And it starts with building the ecosystems, the profits and making the e-commerce side of our business a lot more valuable. I think the market ought to then give us credit for that if we deliver on that. Spoken about valuation aspects and sharing more with the market. And then we can enhance that with the buyback and to continue with that. But it requires all 3 of those things. I don't think -- I don't see it just as, oh it's a buyback as a solution to improving the discount.

I think part of this question on the regions was, do you have a region that needs to have more of the capital allocated to it? Or is it just a pure opportunity base? Is that...

I think Diego think it is Latin America. For sure.

We can have a good debate.

We'll decide, we'll let you know.

Yes. So we really don't have it. And I think this is part of the strategic flexibility we have. Well, I think it's good. Some people ask, like, what do you have to invest, what is your budget per region? I think we can be flexible. I think this is good.

I think we had one over there, and then we have Tim here. Actually one behind you and then Tim. Go ahead.

[indiscernible] investments. I just have 2 questions. First, the discount, is it a problem or is it an opportunity? That's my first question.

It's both because I think we want it to be lower, it ought to be lower. And whilst it's there, obviously, that's what allows us to put in a share buyback program that as we executed, we increased the per share value of Tencent as well as our other assets.

But longer term, I think we would like to get to a position where we get to the Tencent Plus position where our e-commerce businesses generate the profits and the growth that we're aiming for. And at that point, yes, this probably will still be a discount as there's many other investment holding companies that have that. But you don't then need to use that to actually to create underlying NAV, you can do that by operating and building great businesses.

My second question is on -- basically it's very simple. What do you think is the probability that those demand synergies from building ecosystems don't materialize? And in light of that, how do you justify these bid premiums for buying control of assets that you're going to build this ecosystem on? Because in my view, it seems like, at least I'm not aware of super apps that have been developed through M&A. So I'm just like in your eyes, like what is the probability that this will fail? And then you're still paying these big bid premiums and building them out.

It's 8.7%.

No, no, but qualitatively just hearing your thoughts around that...

can I just jump in to say one thing. I don't think we're talking about super apps here, definitely. It's an ecosystem strategy, which means that each asset has to generate its own value. And on top of this, there are integrations that we will generate an alpha on top of this. This is not a super app. I don't expect necessarily to have all the assets in Latin America at iFood app. Which ones will be there? The ones that make sense. I show you an example of this Despegar at iFood app. If the results are not good, I turn off, and that's not a problem at all. Anyway, Gonzalo needs to perform the Despegar and make that asset great.

And also, if you think about the user experience, there is other ways to integrate users between apps. Even the conversation of interface can create eventually some interactions that make sense. For example, the super app big play, it is in China. And also, they have a conversational interface through WeChat that was important to create their big ecosystem there. So it's not like we have to develop a super app, is that we have synergies between our offerings. And we're not saying that we are going to invest -- you said something, how do you justify -- it's 8.7%? You can update your model, but how to justify the big premiums. Despegar is a company generating $118 million in EBITDA.

So we are talking about less about 10x EBITDA, less than that, right? Yes, 10x EBITDA. Just Eat Takeaway take is $400 million this year, EUR 380 million. So we are talking a little more than 10x EBITDA too. So I know in the past, we did some transactions that you made critics, I understand, the critics, we lost some money in some transactions. But we are talking about 10, 20x revenues. Now we're talking about 10x EBITDA. The level of discipline is bigger, the connection to our core is much bigger, like we operate a similar company with bigger volumes, the synergies we are talking about not like magic, what Euro demonstrated, its magic.

But the synergy we said, it's not magic. It's like we know how to do it. In Brazil, in Despegar, iFood has 70 million customers, 15x more than the 4 million customers that Despegar have. So we said, how to justify this overprice? Look, I don't think there was -- that's over price? And I don't think that's justifying. That is like a magical thing I think, if we do poorly, it has a good ROI. We expected to do exceptional. So come back to the next CMD, and we are going to look for you to show the exactly probability it was 0. It was not 8.7%. Senior gentlemen? No? No question?

Well, I'm following on from all the questions on the discount to NAV. Yes, the CFO, I think, agreed or conceded that buying back shares is not necessarily the only route to -- I mean to narrow the discount to NAV because we've started this buying back program, say, 2, 3 years ago. And I don't think the discount has narrowed materially after spending $50 million or is it euros, right?

So now that you are very confident in your e-commerce strategy, and we can see the energy that Fabricio and team are bringing. Why don't you focus on investing more into the business or returning money back to the shareholders. Let us decide what to do with that money then, you buying back your own shares. That's just an observation from my side.

Just in terms of the -- I agree with you. There's other things that clearly will move the discount as well. I've highlighted those. Just to remind you, though, that when we started the open-ended share buyback program, the Prosus's discount was in the mid-50s. It's now 28%. So I do think it has had a significant impact of the buyback. But your point about investing in the business, well, that's what today was about. That's what Just Eat and Despegar is about. So I think that -- we're not misaligned.

If I may add one more observation from my side. I think when I look at the discount to NAV, whenever Tencent runs away, the discounted NAV widens. And when it's flat or going down, it narrows just an observation. So...

Clearly, there's a -- I agree with you, there is a market element of capital that maybe moved out of China, towards China. And we're impacted by that. But I don't think that's the only thing.

I think hopefully, the things are peer-leading growth, the profitability that we're creating. The fact that we're now free cash flow positive ex Tencent. The clear strategy that we've outlined here today in terms of pursuing the various ecosystems, I think that, at least an element of the discount reduction that we've seen should be attributable to our efforts.

Yes. I think I agree 100% with Nico. I think the direction is positive of discount is narrowing, not because of the buyback, but because I think the company is making progress. So I think it's a good direction. You just said you spent $50 billion, I don't think we spent $50 billion because -- we are buying back shares. What's making the shares of everyone that this year as our shareholders more valuable, what is good. It is good because it is an opportunity. So we are just investing in ourselves, so what makes sense now. I think for lots of time for some time at least you think this is the best way for Prosus to generate value. I think we are showing that we have other ways to generate value, and we are very confident on that.

So good news. Let's just generate more value. That's why we are here and we are going to keep returning capital, not with a formal capital allocation like table for the next 3 years. But really executing well, increasing the numbers and finding ways to give the money back.

Andrew and then over here.

All right. Just 2 one quick ones from me. If I look at just on, Just Eat for Fabricio, if I look at the development of the U.K. and the German consumer Internet market, it looks a lot like a lot more like the U.S. than China and LatAm in that you have more established verticals and not sort of big ecosystems. I mean, are you confident that you can sort of break the norm and build Just Eat into a broader ecosystem in these markets?

Just Eat, it's Prosus. Prosus is going to be to use Just Eat another Prosus company plus technology plus to have a stronger B2C company, I think so. But look, I think we can do amazing things, not in one month. Sometimes, I talk to investors say, why don't you fix all the problems next month because then you create other problems and probably it's just like a fixed solution. We have to first complete the Just Eat deal. Then we have to make Just Eat to operate exceptionally well. Then, we can do what you are doing. But if you look today as a photography, then you say, I don't believe in that, you are right, today.

But if you look many months ahead, I don't know how many months, but if you had -- look, you wouldn't do this question on iFood. You say, ah, but iFood is different. Today, it was not 4 years, 5 years ago. We built it. Lots of work, Diego worked a lot, lots of people working a lot, we but it. Prosus is here to build. We will build into this position over the next, I don't know, 1 year, 1.5 years.

And fabricio, if I can jump here. I think -- we should think this question from an innovation perspective. So you are right. When you look to the best, that's how you define the market. But the question is, if there is still people eating at home or going way much more to the physical space to the dining, how do I change this behavior?

So it's very difficult. That's why you have to test 100 times. Make [errors] 99, find one and then scale. So you can change. And that's why, again, we come back to the discussion of culture.

Let me -- since you raised this point, we are ahead of so much transformation. There's so much transformation ahead of us. Like the investment companies, your ones are going to change how they work in the next 2, 3 years and the food companies and the grocery companies and the travel companies and the Internet companies and the search companies and the ad companies. That's why I started talking about the Prosus way.

Look, our competitive advantages have passionate people with lots of grit, moving fast and capacity to innovate because the change is going to be massive. If I am in Germany operating with the assets I have, let's say, Just Eat, if we close the deal, plus other things around during this transformation, and we are aggressive innovative company, we are going to win, I believe.

If you are not an aggressive innovative company, we are going to lose anyway. We, you, everyone. So that's why I start this culture. Can we play to win in this high -- the world that changed so fast? Yes. Then Prosus is amazing. We have 2 billion customers, innovation capacity, 40,000 people and cash. If we can't play to win, then we are going to lose. So I think we can win if we deliver what I started...

And let me materialize with 2 examples that we did at iFood, just for you to understand the concept. Back in 2018, we said at a certain point, we're going to acquire everybody. We need to increase frequency, how we do that. We need to do a loyalty program. So you saw the numbers today. Beautiful right, we started in 2018 failed, '19 failed, '20 failed, '21 failed, '22 failed, '23 found the first sign. And then it's as important as were. And let me give a second one. When we were in 2023, and we were going out of COVID, people were going back home and orders were going down.

Fabricio came to us and said, we need to grow. It doesn't matter how. We need to grow. Don't come with COVID excuse. You know what happened? We found a business called WhatsApp that currently represents 25% of our orders, 2.5 years after this. Why? Because somebody came and said, we need to keep growing, don't come with the COVID answer to me. And then the culture of innovation has to come, test a lot of things and find a solution.

In 2017, '18, '19, what we heard in Brazil again was, how do you think you can build a big food delivery business if you're competing against a global leader in America and a very capitalized Japan capitalized player. It's impossible to win on these markets. And we are doing well. So the point is, okay, the picture, there is a problem. Our job is just overcome it. We will fail for sure. If you have the right culture and right people, we will also win.

And if I may just ask a quick one to Nico, happy birthday, by the way. Just on the -- given the strategic focus on ecosystems and so on, how are you thinking about the other listed e-commerce assets? I've got a disparate group of investments there. Are you looking to maybe crystallize value and monetize some of those to fund some of the other ambitions?

Yes. Like I said, in my presentation, discipline in terms of the portfolio is important. We did sell 2.6 billion, and there's internal targets to continue on that path, and we will do more in the year ahead.

Andrew?

It's Andrew from Barclays. The slide you put up earlier where you highlighted that the analyst valuations are conservative in your opinion. And then combined with the slides you've given the point of e-commerce portfolio generating a lot of EBITDA and cash flow kind of 3 years out, which if you do it, it should create a lot of fundamental value.

I guess, if we get to that time and that fundamental value was not being reflected in sell-side valuations or, I guess, more importantly, the share price. How does that kind of change your thinking about then the future structure of the group? And I guess what I'm asking, does it make sense for Tencent to be part of the holdco when everything else can stand on its own 2 feet, if you want everything else to get valued properly?

Well, firstly, I'm quite confident that if we actually achieve that, that -- the markets may be wrong in a point in time. But in the long run, they tend to get it right. So my expectation would firstly be that if we deliver cash flow, cash flow can't be ignored. I don't think so. So -- but in the unlikely situation that we get into a position where -- because essentially, what you're describing is that we will be successful of executing this market won't describe value to it. The discount, therefore, will then remain high. That would be quite a disappointing outcome at that point. That's not what we're aiming for.

There is two ways to look at the world. That is the way the half is -- the glass is half empty. I know, I know you like some time to make this question. There is the other way, the glass is half full. We have created a lot of value. We are moving faster. We are innovating. We are winning. We promised a lot of things. You criticize the promise. We delivered everything we promised.

So I would tell you the half full. People are trusting more in what we are delivering. You saw today why I'm trusting more in what we are delivering. Maybe in 1 year, people are going to say, s***, I should have bought this company when the discount was 28 because now it's a 9% premium just like Berkshire Hathaway.

I don't know. I don't know. But let's keep the hope on the half full glass. If you just look to the -- everything is going to explode, you are going to be wrong because we do things right. And we are going to keep doing a few things right.

All right. Tim, if you a question about the discount you're in trouble.

Tim Acker from Allen Gray. So the first one, just a comment, there was an earlier question on is the buyback, the right idea? So just my humble opinion, and I think many shareholders would agree. We think it's a great use of capital and it enhances NAV per share. So that's just my opinion.

So the question is on Tencent. So currently, you've only been selling Tencent shares to fund the buyback. Is that still the intention to continue that way? Or would you consider selling Tencent to fund other M&A?

That is the current intention to continue the way we are.

All right. Quickly to Cesar, then to Sylvia, then to Robert.

Yes. Cesar from Bank of America. So I have two questions. The first one is, do you think it's always possible to fix culture in companies that you think about acquiring? And the second one, linked to the buyback question. Do you think it's -- could be a good idea to slow down the funding of the buyback from selling Tencent shares? And maybe as you increase your free cash flow, you use your own free cash flow to fund the buyback.

Well, I think you can do whatever you want with culture. It depends on leadership. You have the right person with the right culture that you want this person will make the changes that will be necessary. Sometimes in a hard way, sometimes not soft way, sometimes in a month, sometimes in a year. So it depends a lot on the context, but you can fix and how you fix that. You set the right vision, you make the contract with the people saying, that's how we're going to behave and then you never negotiate our culture.

You say if you're not behaving as we agree, if you are not following the vision that we are setting, you should not be here. But if you're doing, if you're changing, if you're starting this, you will stay with us. The more people start to change for all the time, the more the company will start to materialize that culture. So it's possible. Time depends on context.

A funny story. I arrived here 1 year ago. And people said, you have this funny English, looks like Brazilian, this Brazilian thing. I don't know if they're Netherlands -- the Dutch people will talk about this culture, et cetera. And it was funny. The first meeting I said, I want to get feedback from everyone, please talk, give me your feedback. It was absolutely silence. So please say something. I talk here for 1 hour, no will give any feedback.

One year later, we are much more aggressive. We are communicating much more. So you build culture. I learned more about Dutch, about our culture in Prosus, we changed the way we behave. So it's possible.

On the -- yes, your question -- as the free cash flow improves, whether we can allocate some of that also to a buyback, that can be a possibility. I think, obviously, we want to share operational cash flow through dividends and enhancing that. But if buybacks is a more efficient way to actually return capital to shareholders, then we can look at that.

All right. Quickly, Silvie?

Yes. I have a high-level question. When I think about the move to ecosystems, remind me of how info delivery, there was a move from marketplace to delivery to other categories. So the question is, is this where the industry is going you think or do you see like still a place for single vertical players or given the network effects from ecosystems, do you also see food delivery or in classified other players potentially in the competitive landscape moving to an ecosystem model? So is this the direction for the industry as a whole in your view?

And then thinking about the disclosure, as Nico mentioned, we're going to get some data. How do you think we should assess the success of the ecosystem? Should we look for frequency of usage of existing users? Or is it going to be in terms of cost efficiencies, for example?

Was Silvie that won the Brazilian shirt last...

Yes.

Silvi, there, you got my Brazilian shirt last time, and I gave a prediction last time. Brazil is going to win the World Cup. Oh my god, we lost the next game. So my predictions now are much better. This time is it's going to work. I say this, Silvie, see I forgot...

The first one was about the ecosystem, the verticals. I can take you if you want. So let me tell you one thing. The PowerPoint will tell that you can like just build a big business and then it's easy to roll out to other verticals. That's the worst thing that you can hear from somebody.

It's very difficult to do this. very difficult. Remember how many times, we discussed it for all the time. It's vertical. The main point here is to understand what's our -- what are the great assets that you built that really impact the next vertical that you have. So let me give one example. I told you that we are scaling fast pharmacy in Brazil.

Why? We have pharmacy for like 3, 4 years, and we didn't grow like this. But now we are doing. Why? Among other things, we understood that delivering in 10 to 15 minutes, changes everything. Changes everything. Why I can do that because I have a logistic asset that gives me this capability. So see it's not about just having the vertical. We had the vertical 4 years ago, and we didn't -- we're not able to grow fast. So what I'm trying to say you is, you need to be very sure that we have the right asset for what changes the game when you go to the other vertical?

And how you discover that? It's tough. You need to test a lot of things and understand because you think you know which is the asset, but you don't know which is the asset. So in the end, my main point here is everybody can become an ecosystem or a super app, yes. But executing it, it's very, very difficult.

The easiest way to destroy $1 billion. You create a super app and you put all the verticals and you just subsidize everything. The pharmacy thing. We are talking about that for 4 years. Much before I left iFood, we are trying every month to change new hypothesis. Now we are growing a lot profitably. So it's very difficult to do it profitably. That's why we have to test 100 things.

Someone -- I was reading Twitter before I -- X before I come here. And someone, David. David, I think you are there in the streaming. And he said, I think Euro just took all the data about the users, sent to LLM and the LLM wrote something. And I said, no, my god. No, we are working 6 months to fine-tuning a model, 60 models different, tested 100 times. So sometimes you see a slide and you say, no, you just go there and do it, yes, then you lose a lot of money.

Why we are being profitable growing? Because you have to do the technology right, until you create competitive advantage, then you can scale. That's what we are trying to do. And your question -- other part of the question was, is everyone going to do it? It's very difficult to do it because sometimes there are different companies, I think Prosus is well positioned to that. What we built in Latin America is very difficult to replicate. It's very difficult to replicate the Chinese ecosystem where for example, in WeChat you have so many players. So maybe because it's very difficult to do, we will have a competitive advantage and we will play better than other companies. That's our bet. I think we have much more than 8.7% chance of succeeding.

You also asked how to measure? I forgot to answer this. It's very difficult to tell you an average KPI. Why? Because an ecosystem is very different. So I mean how do you measure the impact that the food delivery business has on my fintech business. You cannot get that through frequency. We have to get a very specific thing. So the best thing for me, it's difficult for you that are in the public market is to look at the impact on cohorts. If you take the frequency of iFood, it didn't change because of pharmacy. Why? Because food deliveries this size and pharmacies this size.

But if you get this cohort, you're going to see a bump in terms of increase. So it's difficult for you to see from the outside. But I will always look the cohort and how this cohort can be replicable.

We will share data. The one data for me is growth. We should grow faster. Otherwise, it is only PowerPoint. So we hope to come back here in the future and say we are growing faster, let me show you the data that proves this growth because of what we are doing. So if you're not growing faster, it's not working, but you come here and say, this is not working. This part is work, this is not working. That's how life is.

Okay. So we are very close to time. Robert, do you want to take us home? You better...

Can I do a question or...

Can you do it for the last point, like it's got to be a good question if it's the last one.

Yes. I have a question for Nico about the capital returns, of course, over the last few years, Prosus has accelerated its capital returns for buybacks and dividends. If I look at the buybacks, of course, you're limited because of the daily volume on the Euronext Stock Exchange in the amount of buybacks that you can do.

And on the dividend policy, if you look at the buyback tax exemption that requires a consistent dividend policy. So yes, these limitations, how does that impact kind of your long-term capital return program? Do you, for example, foresee consistent dividend policy? Yes. So how does that kind of work?

And maybe, yes, a quick question about the India ecosystem. We already had a couple of questions before about the India ecosystem, which is, of course, a bit different but instead of the European ecosystem and the LatAm ecosystem, because it's a minority stake, small stakes where, of course, Fabricio in his strategy is really focused on being an operator. So for me, it's not fully clear. How does that work in India?

Maybe I can start, Nico, and then. Or Nico start...

Ashu said, he was going to start and then you...

Look, I completely concede that the starting point in India is different from what it is from LatAm. But if building this ecosystem realizing synergies was illogical, then I need to own. Hey, I own you, you do this. I'm telling you.

But if building an ecosystem, connecting companies, realizing synergies is logical then I don't need to have that influence to make that happen. So -- that's the approach we're taking in India. And over time, of course, like as we see opportunities to strengthen it further, we'll keep on investing in acquiring.

Let me add to Ashu points. You are right on your comments and on your concern. But again, try to see that as a movie, not as a picture. We changed the whole strategy that we are seeing today, I think, internally, maybe 3 months ago. We are going in that direction. So the starting point is what you're seeing because that was just previous strategy. We have 10% in many companies. We did it.

Over time, we will have a stronger local ecosystem Why? I know that because we have exceptional people there like Ashu that has the goal to have a very strong ecosystem. So we are going to keep saying, Ashu deliver that to us. We are going to get there, but the starting point is a little different. We are going to change over time.

You clearly know your Dutch tax regulation quite well. So it's a little bit of a technical thing, but I'll try and be as clear as possible with it because the 2 things are quite different. But it is a very important element and advantage that we as Prosus have. When we created the Prosus listed vehicle, we're actually through the Tencent stake. We're able to create the very sizable call it, taxable capital base of more than 120 billion. Now that base helps us in 2 ways.

Firstly, from a dividend perspective, we can distribute dividends, essentially, well, dividends, we do it through capital reductions and effectively do that very efficiently then for shareholders that elects that way. And we've done that over the last few years.

So 120 billion.

120 billion of...

A few years at least, 3, 4, 5, okay, okay -- let's keep working on that.

The second part relates to specifically the buyback elements. Now the Dutch tax fiscal environment is actually quite punitive for companies that actually make share buybacks. We've actually been actually well shielded by that because of this higher tax base that we have. So our sort of, call it, capital element of -- on a per share basis that we buy back that effectively does not create any profit. So actually very high. It's into the 40s per share.

And then, we further then qualify for certain exemptions based on the size of the dividend, and I think that's what you were alluding to that comes on top of that. And clearly, as we grow our dividend elements, that's just going to be enhanced. So my answer to you is despite the Dutch environment, that's a little bit anti-share buyback and distribution because of how we've set up the company and the big 120 billion shield that we have, we're actually distributing the cash and doing the buyback in a highly tax-efficient way for our shareholders.

Okay. We just have time -- there is one more...

My version for that is, wow, we have a lot of tax benefits, why there is a discount. So update your model, lots of tax shields here.

Maddy from HSBC again. You're building a great AI for your own usage it seems. But do you have any plans to monetize that outside of Prosus at all? And if yes, in what ways can you do that?

So we -- that was the initial idea that we decided that the biggest impact we can have is internally. So that's what we decided to first of all, enable all our companies to do the best we can and try to do it as fast as possible in the most impactful way as possible.

Having said that, this is new technology, technology that we own. We can do whatever we want with that, and we are very confident we can use it to create the next wave of AI employment, which means not hiring people, but hiring agents to do the work of people. This might have opportunities outside.

We have never made after the decision to use internally, we have not made the call whether this is going to be commercial or not. So for us, for now, we just focus internally.

Because our scale is big. So we should first use internally have a lot of benefits then also sell externally. I think that we might get there. It's just not the focus today. But maybe next Capital Markets Day, next Nico birthday, we talk about that.

All right. Well, we've got to leave it there and we...

So a few final words. I lost my mobile phone, very strange when you lose your mobile phone. Final words. First, I'd like to say thank you all for coming for staying a full day with us. We try to share a lot. Some people gave me the feedback that it's nice because we were very open. That's the way we operate. Being open and sharing everything, bad news, good news, sharing what we are learning. We hope we increased the trust. We hope you decided to be a shareholder for the long term for us. So thank you for coming.

But I'd like also before we finish to say the people from Prosus there, rocks, and everyone else, please stand up. You saw that we spent a lot of time -- please stand up. And I ask you to say thank you for our CEOs, and everyone else. Thank you for organizing. I think they spent a lot of time in creating a very nice day to share with you.

Thank you, the CEOs, the Heads, and everyone else from Prosus, one more step to increased transparency. I enjoyed a lot. I hope you enjoyed. And hope we are going to see again soon to keep sharing about our stories.

My last note, we have a video to say goodbye, good bye not so long. But we will have drinks for the next 1 hour. So I invite you all. If you don't have to go home now, get there, let's get some drinks together and let's celebrate the last 1 year, but even better dream about the next 1 year. Thank you. See you next time.

[Presentation]

[Presentation]

Good evening, good afternoon, and good morning to you all, and thank you for joining the results call for Prosus. We're delighted to have you here. We are coming to you live from our backyard in the London office. And we've put all of our results on the website this morning. We've put a video on there with an extensive presentation. So hopefully, you have gone through those already because we're not going to spend too much time on that today. We're going to get straight into Q&A.

And Abigail, would you mind taking the audience through the instructions for Q&A, please?

[Operator Instructions]

I will now hand over to Fabricio Bloisi.

Hello, everyone. Welcome to our results call. I'm happy to be here with you sharing a little more about what we are doing. That is exactly 1 year, a little less to complete the first 1 year as Prosus CEO. I'm very excited about the moment now. I'm excited because of the results that you saw today. I'm happy that I promised you $400 million and delivered $443 million. So it's a good start. I'm happy with the increase of dividends of 100%. It's a good start.

My opinion, there are still small numbers. They are going to grow a lot, but it's a good start. But I'm more excited about the momentum of the company, about how the company is behaving. I told you 6 months and 1 year ago about the importance of the culture, what means people being more entrepreneur, solving problems faster, communicating inside the company faster. So the company today is moving in a speed that is very exciting.

We are solving problems faster. We are innovating more in thinking about the future. So I'm really excited about the next 2 or 3 years. Unfortunately, talk about the next 2 or 3 years is going to be in our Capital Markets Day in today. So hope to see you there and hope to answer all the questions we have for today. So let's go.

I would say it's fortunately, it's going to be there in 2 days at the Capital Markets Day. So look forward to see you there. So thanks for laying the groundwork there for us. I'm going to ask a couple of questions before we kick it off to the group.

Nico, I'm going to start with you. So it's great to see that we've had a focus on growing profitably, driving revenue and having that fall to the bottom line. What do you see as the opportunity for some efficiencies to drive profitably on the cost side?

Thank you for that question. I think growth has been very important to us, and we've delivered by growing 21% in the last year, 2x faster than most of our peers. But most importantly, that has translated into some excellent operating leverage for most of our businesses. Two examples that I can give. One is if I look at our iFood business, especially the core restaurant delivery business, now achieved an adjusted EBIT margin of 28% on the back of the 50% revenue growth that we've seen in that business.

Likewise, OLX, our online classifieds business, that has grown its top line by 18%, but profits by 61% over the period. So clearly showing that we have efficiencies and scale in this business that allows us to grow both profitability, but as well as free cash flow, which is very important. Also on the corporate side, we -- 1.5 years ago, have moved away from our old segment structures. And through that, we've -- able to maintain and manage our corporate cost well. That has declined by 1% over the last year.

So I think if I look forward, there's significant opportunities for us to grow. And as we've illustrated in the past year, we can still improve margins and there's some additional operating leverage to come through for most of our businesses. So that quite excites me about the future.

Great. Great.

Let me shed based on what Nico just said. When we talk about AI disruption, we are also talking about increasing efficiency of operations. And I think a lot of the increase in our results is related to strong innovation. And just to complement, you said we reduce it by 1%. I think no -- I intend to reduce 10x more our corporate costs and our costs. We have to keep being a very, how can I say, aggressive company in terms of being the cost -- have the cost -- the central costs very control.

Great. Look, I think certainly for people internally, unless you've been sleeping under a rock, there's been a clear pivot in the strategy. We're now focused on having Prosus become the #1 lifestyle e-commerce brands in LatAm, Europe and India. Fabricio, as you think about that and you look at 3 years out, what defines success for you?

Great. First, I think we start in a nice position. For example, in Latin America, what we have now is iFood, leveraging iFood Pago or fintech business, these 2 foundational business with high frequency, helping commerce with OLX, travel with Despegar that we completed the acquisition and events with Sympla. This is a very nice flywheel where we have -- we share knowledge, we share customers, we share growth. It's starting really to work in Latin America.

So when I look a few years ahead, we have an amazing benchmark in Latin America that is Mercado Libre. I think we have to have the size of half of Mercado Libre, at least I think thinking big is to have another Mercado Libre, not in terms of competing with their products because we are more focused in lifestyle, e-commerce, not real box delivery. But that's the size of the opportunity, I believe we can build in Latin America.

If we look here in India, the big thing today is integrating more our investments. We have PayU the foundation. We have Swiggy also, as I just said, high-frequency payment and food delivery of the foundation. But we have many other amazing business on top of that like Meesho or Urban Company. I believe in a few years, we are going to be generating a lot of synergies between those business. We are already generating [indiscernible] to talk more about that, but there will be much, much, much more to create a real big tech group and ecosystem in India.

And in Europe, we are just getting started. Obviously, we have good business on OLX and eMAG on eastern Europe. But I think in 3 years, we are going to be strong in all Europe with a very strong ecosystem where we have customers all around Europe using all our applications. Today, hopefully, it will be not only these 3 businesses, but other business that we may add to our flywheel. Because we are moving very fast, innovating a lot with a great culture of execution and entrepreneurship, I'm quite confident we are going to build that. Let's go for that.

Look, I think one of the things that's been most apparent at the company is a change in the culture, right? It's a focus on impact. You see today results, innovation. And Nico, maybe this one to you. I think there's definitely more increased transparency, right? And we're seeing a discussion of EBIT and EBITDA. So maybe if you could give us a little bit more like what's driving that?

So just on our key financial metrics, just to remind everybody, the key things that we focus on revenue growth, obviously, very important. Adjusted EBIT in our key profit metric for a long time. And then core headline earnings, which captures everything that we have in the group, including our key associates, like Tencent, in terms of the bottom line operational performance.

And then lastly, our focus specifically also on free cash flow generation. So those metrics remains unchanged, and we'll continue to focus on them and drive them forward to improve them. In order to improve just comparability with many of our peers and also focus from mostly the analyst community on adjusted EBITDA, we have also provided that information to the market with a clear reconciliation between adjusted EBITDA and adjusted EBIT.

Great. I just got a text from my wife who said, I'm making this call about me for asking too much questions. So I'm going to open it up to the audience right now.

First, we have Cesar.

Can you hear me?

Yes.

Congrats on the results. I have 2 questions, if that's okay. One for Nico and one for Fabricio. The first one for Nico, I'd like a clarification on your M&A firepower. How much do you have today in terms of M&A firepower, assuming Tencent stock price is HKD 500 and unchanged commitment to your investment-grade policy? That's the first one.

And then for Fabricio, you've talked a little bit about it, but I wanted to understand a little bit better what are the 3 biggest changes you've made to the organization since you assumed this role as a CEO?

Cesar, thank you. Let me take the first one. So we ended the financial year at the center, about $17 billion of cash. As you know, we have the commitments relating to the Despegar transaction, which we closed in May, therefore, subsequent to our year-end as well as the Just Eat acquisition that's still being executed. So that's a commitment of about $7 billion. If you knock that off, it leaves us about $10 billion. We've received about $1 billion, just $1.2 billion actually from Tencent as a dividend in early June. That leaves us with on a pro forma basis at about $11 billion of cash that's available for -- to be used.

You ask in relation to our investment-grade rating. At the current HKD 500, so it's a snapshot in time view at the current HKD 500 share price, essentially, there's no offset against that relating to our credit metrics. So the full amount is in theory available. I think we've also been clear that currently, we focused on -- we've just completed the Despegar transaction to make that better, bring it to support that business, bring it into our LatAm ecosystem. And then the focus will obviously also shift to the Just Eat acquisition. So those are our key priorities that we focus in the short to medium term.

Three things that changes in the company. Thank you for the question, Cesar. Look, the first thing is culture. And it's a funny thing I go to meetings with investors. Many investors doesn't like to talk so much about culture or these funny things. I think you are wrong, you should spend more time talking about that. We became a tech company and tech company has one big asset, these people. So when I talk about changing culture, we are talking about moving faster, communicating more openly, dream big and communicate the dream with everyone.

Some of you can think, okay, so you're nice to make this motivational speech, what's the impact in the company. Actually, the increasing results that you are seeing is the impact in the company because I have now 30,000 people going in the same direction, people collaborating more and being more aggressive on what they should do, when they should do, why they go -- they should deliver things very fast, why they have to play to win in what we are doing. So I think we have a more aggressive culture to create and build the future, and this makes all the difference. I will tell you one more thing, $443 million is a good start.

Yes, come on, it is small. It's going to be much bigger, because of the change in culture, because I have now 30,000 people that says that believe we are going to do much better in the next 1 year, and we will. I hope I share much more with you on Wednesday. So the culture is a big change, the momentum and how people see the company is very big, a big change. Two other things to reinforce is a change in terms of innovation and ecosystem. So first, innovation. I don't think there is over hype on AI. I think that is under hype on AI, innovation with discipline. I hate to overpay because you saw a nice PowerPoint on AI.

But there will be so much transformation. There will be trillion companies that are going to use AI to redo every segment from your segments of investing from how we do travel and food and everything else. We have to lead on that, probably the leaders in this area are going to be in Silicon Valley, yes, but we can create global leaders in Latin America, in Europe, in India. And I believe we can create as big as company if you are winning on these 3 areas than the Silicon Valley company. So this is a big, big, big opportunity. And the company is really talking about innovation every day, how we are going to be the best in the world. On Wednesday, we talk about large commerce model, how we train AI models.

We use open source reasoning models to fine-tune open source models to insert in a model all the knowledge of the company. Very few companies in the world are doing that, very few. That is 5 or 10, that is, but we are in the cutting edge of the innovation, doing that in Amsterdam in Brazil and sharing that with all our companies. And the third one is talking about ecosystem. We talk about ecosystem. If we want to invest, does this investment helps our ecosystem? We share information internally all the time. So the company is more efficient, is moving fast and innovating more. That's why I'm confident in the next 6 months are going to be better than the last ones.

One of the best examples, I think, of culture driving results and growth is the story you tell that iFood when below 10 million orders, you said we're going to 100 million. And most companies, [indiscernible] well, how would we do that, but there's an expectation of success that's driven by the culture, which I think is really interesting.

The culture define big goals and run for that. The big goals we are discussing here are bigger than everything that you are seeing from outside. It's funny some people say, it's good. It's good to grow many times, many, many, many times. We are going to show about that on Wednesday. So we are playing for win. We are aggressively playing for win. And the results of that are improving the results that you are seeing.

Great. All right. Let's go to Will Packer, please.

Firstly, could you -- good to see you. Could you update us where we stand on the JET regulatory review and whether there are any indications of complexities around your ownership of a large stake with [indiscernible] of Delivery Hero? And could you share us with the perspectives of your advisers and how they see that risk?

And then secondly, a kind of more wide-ranging question. So we've heard a lot about how generative AI can boost processes growth outlook. Within Tencent -- from Tencent, we've heard about ad targeting boosting ad revenue in the short term, then agentic AI and WeChat or faster content creation driving more engagement and monetization. In terms of tangible benefits for your ecosystem, is it that -- and the integration and synergy between them, is it improved targeting and monetization of consumers to use the data lake? For example, classifieds and food delivery typically haven't been considered synergistic? Or do I have to wait till Wednesday and I hear about it?

You have to wait Wednesday.

Yes for both.

Just kidding, the first one, let me tell you good news first, not good news only, but say, compliments. I complained a lot about European Union in the past. I told them that they have the wrong way to look at tech. I think they are trying to avoid big tech at all cost and preventing everything. And I think this view that was there for the last 10 years is completely wrong because they avoid companies to grow in Europe, but then Europe is consuming the technology done in California in U.S. and the world is decoupling now. So I think it was a quite bad strategy. You heard me many times about that.

But what we interacted with the European Union for the last 1, 2 months in the first phase of the discussions. And I want to make a compliment that they were very fast. They asked a lot of data, but they answer -- they ask for more data, they process the data very fast. So things moving fast. I was very happy about that because everyone without exception said we were doing a mistake to invest in Europe is a mistake because it will take 2 years to answer you. That's not what happened. We spent -- we are talking very fast all the time. But I think it's an amazing signal.

I think Europe, the last 5 -- 4 months was very different than the Europe 1, 2, 3, 4 years ago. Therefore, I am very optimistic as I usually am, but I have this data point -- this new data point. Because we moved very fast in this first share of data, we filed today, our formal request for moving on with the Just Eat approval to [indiscernible]. This is substantially ahead of the original time line that most of lawyers thought we would go. That's great news.

That said, we filed it today, we are in the middle of an official process. I obviously will not comment anything related to Delivery Hero process because today, we started an official process. The great news, in my opinion, is Europe knows that they need to move faster in tech, and I'm still confident that we are going to have this deal approved fast because it is very good for Europe to have a bigger tech player, European tech player investing in European companies. So I'm confident we are going to keep moving fast.

And the second question was on the role of AI and propelling our ecosystem. You said from the outset, it doesn't look like a finance company and a class company would necessarily be in the same ecosystem.

Yes. And he gave us an example of someone doing that. I don't know. Okay. So answering this question, we will talk a lot about that on Wednesday. So don't miss our Wednesday event. What we are doing exactly is creating new ways to predict behavior for the customers. When you talk about large commerce model, it's exactly what you just asked about. Can we use the new technology approach of using a reasoning model, train this reasoning model, fine-tune this model to understand behavior. The answer is yes. We are doing that.

We take unstructured data from different companies, and we can train a model that can talk -- he doesn't know the name of the customer, but he takes 1 trillion transactions for all the customers. And you can say, I know this about this customer. When I say 1 trillion transactions, it's everything from customer support to interactions, what they bought, what they don't bought, what time they enter, what message we received, what [indiscernible] everything. You see before the current technology with language models, it's very difficult to integrate, very difficult to integrate a food delivery company and [indiscernible] travel.

But now we can integrate because the language models, they integrate everything. So we integrate reasoning language models, all our data, and we have something that is proprietary because it's using all our data and we can predict better demands from the customers. That's what we are doing. We are going to share a few results and demos on Wednesday, and we are confident that this is one more competitive advantage. And I think we are ahead of many people in moving competitive advantage. If some of you think, so that's what I think is going to move us to create the next $100 billion. Yes and no. Yes, this is going -- I think we are ahead, we are going to be ahead for some time.

But even more important, we have a company that is moving fast on innovation, much faster innovation. We have 30,000 people that are creating new models and technology faster. To win as a tech company, we have to do that over time because reasoning models is a big thing today. It will be a different thing in 1 year. And I have -- we have now at Prosus created a culture where we are always moving faster and using new technology. So Wednesday, we show some examples. And I'm confident that we are going to use the ecosystem we have in Brazil and in India, and in future in Europe as a competitive advantage because of our data and our forward-looking AI approach.

Yes. I'm going to hear a lot from you on that on Wednesday. Great. Thanks, Will.

And over to you, Andrew, from Barclays.

Two for me as well, please. The first one is on the dividend coming in from Tencent and your attitude towards that. So now that the business, excluding Tencent is free cash flow positive and self-funding. How do you think about using that cash inflow from Tencent dividends going forward? Do you see that as something that you will invest back into the non-Tencent assets? Or is something that could be distributed back to Prosus shareholders over time?

And then the second question is on the Meituan stake. Interesting situation, I guess, now with Meituan competing with Delivery Hero in a few markets and now directly with you in Brazil. Just kind of update us your thinking behind that stake.

Okay. So...

Do you want me to take that?

Yes, please.

Thank you, Andrew, for the question. I'll take the first one on the dividend. I think, firstly, in the last few years, our overall free cash flow generation, if you look at it, it was actually in the aggregate, less than a Tencent dividend that we've received. So this financial year, although it's a fairly small number at this point in time still, I think it's an important milestone, as you pointed out, that essentially our total free cash flow number is a Tencent dividend plus the contribution from our e-commerce businesses. And then if we look forward, clearly, our ambition is to continue to grow and then generate even more profits and cash flow.

That will allow us to also share that more with our shareholders. And we've taken some steps relating to that by increasing our dividend by 100% or doubling it at the Prosus level. And as we go forward, we clearly will become less dependent on just one underlying free cash flow source. Our ambition is to have significant cash flows from our ecosystems that we're going to build, most notably from Latin America and Europe and India over time. And we'll share that with shareholders.

Yes. Andrew, I hope you are happy. We increased the dividends by 100%. So I think it's a good start. We don't think it well, Andrew. We are going to generate billions of dollars of results outside Tencent, beyond. So today, Tencent is $1.2 billion. You can clearly see that my expectation is to generate more outside Tencent. I think Wednesday will share some numbers about the future, but the direction is billions of our e-commerce operations. It's not like a dream result. We are going to -- we have clear plans to get there on a few billions of results outside Tencent. So don't think small, don't think only in the Tencent dividend. We will have built much more than that.

Your second question was Meituan is entering in some areas that is competing. That was the question, I think.

And Brazil.

And Brazil, yes, I heard about that too, Andrew. Look, our big strategy is to invest more in companies that can reinforce our ecosystem, and we are going to keep doing that aggressively. So I think Meituan has less probability of winning internationally, considering the last announced international expansion. They are going to face some tough competition. I would say as a Meituan shareholder, I'm disappointed because I think the risk of failing increase. And therefore, we are -- we might sell part of the Meituan shares if you want to invest more in other areas with more connection to our ecosystems.

So for example, if we let's invest more in some business in Latin America that we believe reinforce our ecosystem. We could sell part of Meituan shares or everything that we think is reasonable to invest more in business that reinforce our ecosystem. And we are going to do that looking to our shareholders. If we have opportunities to grow faster and better than Meituan in some of our ecosystems, we will do it.

And it's been precedent for that in the past where we've invested in iFood to save off some competition...

So we -- I think they are growing -- the risk of Meituan now in our opinion is over extent -- over reach their international expansion. They did well in Hong Kong and their first Middle East investment, but now they are trying a second Middle East expansion, and they are also trying Latin America at the same time. Let's see, but we are less confident in the international expansion strategy today than in the past.

Okay. Now let's go to Silvia from Deutsche.

Can you hear me?

Yes.

I'll also ask a couple of questions. So the first one is referring to one of the slides that you presented on the website showing the ecosystem flywheel with the key categories being food, fintech, commerce and experience. And I noticed that in Latin America and India, the experience slice of the pie looks to be already served by Despegar and Urban Company. But in Europe, that appears to still be vacant.

So I wanted to ask if you could comment on whether filling this gap is a key area of priority for future M&A activity in Europe? Or do you envision launching experiences organically? And what specific advantages or challenges do you see with each approach?

And then the second question is now that the Despegar acquisition has closed, can you elaborate a little bit on the integration plans you have in place for the first few months? I appreciate this might be something you discuss maybe on Wednesday, but if you could identify some low-hanging fruit that you have, I mean, identified for now? And will you be carving out a new segment for experiences similarly to what you did for EdTech once the segment itself became large enough in the past?

Okay. So first, you said, can you elaborate how we are going to fulfill the experience goal in Europe? No. Sorry, Silvia. We are going to do things organically for sure. We are going to do investments on this area for sure. But I don't want you to tell much more what we are going to do because it will make our next moves a little more difficult. What I can tell you on that is I think the big focus on experience now is Latin America. It is the Despegar move. We are going to announce lots of things on Wednesday, not one, but a lot. We closed the deal just 1 month ago.

I think iFood is -- I think they are showing 3 to 5 connections already between iFood and Despegar. So I think for a few customers, you can already enter, you can get discounts, buy things inside the iFood. The large commerce model also integrates both of them. We are starting to run the models now. There is 3 or 4 specific cases where obviously, I think we already talked about that. On the loyalty club, we have high expectations of offering travel to our current users. So we are going to get on details on that on Wednesday.

And then on experiences also, if we're a successful ecosystem, it's going to be a combination of owned and operated investment and partnerships, right?

Yes. For example, in Brazil, we made a partnership with Uber. So we are keeping the food delivery in many offers, but not the mobility. Uber is doing mobility and not the food delivery. So I think it's the combination of the 3, Silvia. I think the idea behind that is there are ecosystem benefits when we use a high-frequency platform like Just Eat takeaway where people buy many times per month to cross-sell to other services, specifically if you are very good in technology. So our expectation is we have a good expectation that we are going to implement that in Europe.

But just before getting back to the next question, my big priority now is to close the Just Eat takeaway deal. So as I told you before, we closed Despegar, very good. I hope you are happy. We did it very fast. I cannot like to do 5 big and complex deals without closing the first one and showing results. Hopefully, we're going to show the first results of Despegar on Wednesday. We will show for sure, but of integration, at least, not numbers yet because it's too new. My next step now is close Just Eat, and then we are going to, after that, look for other adjacencies, but that's not the biggest priority today.

Great. And then Nico, she asked a little bit about whether experiences might become a segment that sell became big enough versus the regions?

Yes. I think that clearly, we will disclose that separately going forward, so people can track the progress of especially Despegar. And also, I think we will start to share more about how the numbers relating to the various ecosystems are coming together. So we will continue to improve and share more as we go forward.

Yes. I hope you appreciate it. We are trying to share more. We are doing more letters with news. We are putting more data in the site. We create a new site with more info. Wednesday, there will be all info possible release it to you. So our intention is we will give you the data and you do whatever you want with that. So I hope you appreciate and we are going to keep that on the Despegar.

And we're doing it -- regard here. So a lot more transparency face-to-face.

Looks like [indiscernible].

You are pruning the hedges a little earlier, right? So let's go to the next question from Marcus at JPMorgan.

Maybe just one question for Nico. I mean, clearly, we highlighted this very impressive result in terms of the bottom line, $440 million of EBIT, about $800 million-ish in '26 and then you talk about billions thereafter. So clearly, a strong performance in terms of EBIT. How should we think about the free cash flow? Do you think also then the free cash flow will grow pretty much conceptually at least, pretty much in line with that EBIT number? Or is it -- I mean, it's obviously ex Tencent, which I guess will obviously have its own dynamics. But ex Tencent, can we assume free cash flow follows EBIT very much or even potentially outperforming? That's the question.

Marcus, thank you for that question. It's an important question. I think, firstly, just to point something out technically. And obviously, the EBIT number is a before tax number. So free cash flow is somewhat depressed because as we get profitable, we do need to pay the government their due as well. But I think if you look at the progression, we improved our adjusted EBIT by just more than $400 million in the year past. We saw very much a similar improvement in free cash flow. Yes, it got to marginally positive, but it's more than $300 million improvement in free cash flow year-over-year for our e-commerce businesses.

For that, if you consider the that's an after-tax number as well as sort of working capital elements, you can see that the profitability is very much translating into cash generation. And we expect that to continue. So you point out to our ambition in terms of FY '26, $800 million, which is -- which we'll also talk more about and give more details on Wednesday...

More than $800 million.

More than -- we'll talk more about that, but definitely, free cash flow needs to follow that same trajectory.

Thanks, Marcus. Now we're going to go to Lisa from Goldman.

Can you hear me?

Yes.

Two questions, please. So firstly, the -- on iFood, obviously, given significant investor concerns around the Meituan entry, could you maybe confirm how much reinvestment into iFood is sort of baked into especially FY '26 and outer years as well? And do you still think margin can improve from here, obviously, in '25, the margin was quite impressive, but obviously, there is significant competition going ahead. So any color would be very helpful in terms of the trajectory of that margin going forward?

And the second one is, could you maybe just comment on the top line growth that you expect for FY '26, so that $800 million plus of EBIT, what is the sort of top line growth assumption behind basically to achieve that?

And if you can also comment on maybe the latest environment, latest current trading? Are you seeing any impact especially on the macro environment in areas like OLX, for instance, or eMAG, that would be helpful.

Okay. Good. We have to divide here because you make so complex questions in many parts. Margins on iFood. Let me give you a few sense on how things are doing in iFood. iFood was -- had just a food delivery business first. Then we got like -- just a 3P and 1P. First, just the 3P were profitable, now 1P is profitable. The budget for the next year already includes a reasonable number to increase in competition. So we are confident that we are already investing to keep our competitive position. But I want to give you another perspective.

There is many other business inside iFood. For example, our fintech business, I think when you are analyzing the company, you don't understand well these numbers yet. I don't know if you're going to share much more details on it. So maybe it's our fault. But we are giving credit to hundreds of thousands of customers. We have a new voucher business with close to 1 million customers now. Both of them are growing. Both of them -- we have the payment business also. So our fintech area is profitable and growing a lot.

We are going to launch a few -- we are already testing, but I don't think I could announce it yet, but our fintech area is expanding and the profitability is going to keep expanding a lot. So my point to you is that the adjacencies in iFood are also maturing and our profitability level are increasing because the core food and because the other business around that. If we expect to keep increasing the profitability, I think we will keep growing a lot the profitability margins of iFood. I don't know if we are growing that number or the margin [indiscernible].

Maybe I need to put some numbers to it. So Lisa, just to help you, in terms of the core restaurant food delivery business, we've already achieved a 28% adjusted EBIT margin. Overall, the iFood business is at 17%, which means we're still investing in areas like the meal voucher, the grocery business, some of the fintech elements, although that has improved significantly. So -- that means that as those businesses get to profitability, there's still significant opportunity for us in the years ahead to improve that overall margin for the iFood business. So I hope that helps you to conceptualize that.

Just to get to your other 2 questions, you asked in terms of the revenue sort of expectations that we have that underpins the sort of the profit expectations for next year. And I think we plan to continue to grow at a healthy rate. And I think longer term, we'll talk about those ambitions more as well on Wednesday. But our internal targets are on a blended basis, all between roughly 15% and 20% for the various e-commerce businesses. And then you ask, well, how are we tracking that sort of in the first couple of months of the year? What do we see? I see our business has been ahead of our own internal plans at this stage. We are still showing good growth and the profitability improvements in the first while has continued.

I think we shared a quarter by -- half year by half year profitability. Have you shared that yet?

We have shared half year...

So you can see the growth is like very strong if you look every half year. So sometimes people -- many times to say, you did that. So now we're going to be flat or reduced. It is growing like that. 3 months after, it is bigger, and we are ahead of the plan that we had. So we are confident. And I think we are confident because we are executing very well. The level of innovation is great. You asked about competition in Brazil. I want to remind you, iFood compete against other global players with very good results in the past because the service is excellent, the customers love it. The quality of the product is very good. So our plan is to keep playing and keep winning.

I find it's interesting. We get this question quite a lot to Investor Relations, and it's almost as though it starts next year, whereas this is a company that has been playing offense for many years, right? To your point, they build the marketplace, they're building [indiscernible]. Now they're going offline. So it is very much -- they say offense is the best defense. So it's not starting from next year investment. It's been started for many, many years before.

I think a few companies has -- is winning as iFood is winning, they become a little complacent because they become like a company that just likes to profit. The level of speed in terms of new product innovation, as I said, the adjacencies related to fintech. iFood is innovating to create the next $10 billion in transactions. What we are doing now in online travel agency. So this is a company playing to be or keep being one of the best operations in terms of stacking in the world, one of the best in Latin America for sure. So having competition is part of life, we expected to keep good margins beside of that. And we already have in our budget some money to this kind of competition.

And Lisa, probably we can invest more in adjacency business that can create even more profit around iFood. So we are open to keep looking for opportunities on that. And as I told you, Prosus has more $11 billion to invest. We have more -- many billion dollars in companies that we are invested and we can sell to invest more in adjacency business. So we are going to keep playing for win.

All right. Thank you, Lisa. And then we'll go to Laura from Morgan Stanley.

Can you hear me?

Yes.

Perfect. Two questions, please. The first one is a follow-up on the question on Despegar. What is the biggest type of synergy you expect to have between Despegar and iFood?

And then secondly, any insights you can give us on the potential crystallization of some of your assets? Obviously, Swiggy IPO-ed recently, what's likely to be next?

Okay. On Despegar, I will answer in 30 seconds just because this is like a 20-minute section on Wednesday. So we listed many options. Today, we are running around 5 experiments on creating cross synergies. A few examples, we have a loyalty program with millions and millions of customers, and we are offering discounts on those customers to travel and hotels. But remember, we are not just saying this is a discount. We understand the customer behavior. We have a large commerce model to help to say who is that customer, what they look for. And we are confident we will move on to have good numbers on this kind of integration.

There is 5 cases like that, that we are already running that was launched in the last 1 to 2 weeks, but for parts of the base, and we are going to open all of that on Wednesday. So I can reinforce, we are quite confident we have close to 70 million customers in iFood. Despegar is around 6 million in total. So we are very confident we can increase Despegar size because of iFood. But one more thing, we are confident we can increase retention and frequency in iFood because of Despegar, because customers appreciate having benefits in travel and experiences and events. Then I forgot the second question because...

I'd add also to that having more interactions with the consumers is always a good thing, particularly in an ecosystem, which is similar to the partnership with Uber as well, where you get more access to more consumers in our core market.

The second question was on our thoughts on crystallization.

Okay. I told 7 months ago that we would have around 5 IPOs in the next 1 year to 1.5 years by the end of this year, by the end of this fiscal year, so until March next year. I think our expectation is more or less the same that we already have the IPO, that will be more 3, maybe 4 in the next 9 months. So there will be more public companies. We will have our share part of that because some of them are already filing and already preparing the IPO, I got a strong recommendation, don't say the names of the company and I just check the public market reports from India.

But I think -- so I'm not going to say the names of the company. But even beside -- before that, I think we had a thesis we invested in India 5, 7 years ago. And the India thesis is maturing. We have a few winners, not only Swiggy that is public, but the other ones. And we are going to keep updating the list of our listed company that we invested much earlier for sure this year, a few more of them. But I will not comment specifically on any one of them.

Great. Thanks, Laura. And then we'll go over to Nadim.

Just one question from me. I'd like to double-click on the topic of cultural change again. I mean, in my experience, this kind of change can take many, many years, especially when you're also moving from a holding company structure to an operating structure and you've got many different opcos all over the world. So I'd just like to understand like is there more to come in terms of the cultural transformation?

And secondly, with the acquisitions that are going on, I mean, how do you integrate them into that culture? It seems like culture is a big driver of your operational turnaround.

Nadim, where are you based?

I'm based in Johannesburg.

Johannesburg, good. I have to send you some gift for Youth Day. It was the first question on culture ever amazing, Nadim. You just won the prize. [indiscernible].

I think you are right, usually it takes a lot of time. When I arrived, I said this is my biggest priority because you can think Fabricio is doing things. Fabricio is pushing to change the culture. But what makes products move faster is 30,000 people moving in the same direction more aggressively. So I was -- we were very aggressive on this change. We are pushing a lot to everyone to say, look, this is a new company. This is the future. This is where we are going. I hope you love it. Many people say, I love it. Maybe you don't love it and you say, okay, part of life, just move on because we are going to be that company very fast.

I think I've been very aggressive in this cultural change. I expected to have full results in 6 months. I am a little -- I say, too aggressive. But I think 1 year, I didn't get full results in 6 months. But 1 year after, we are having strong, strong, strong results. We just published last week, I think, a new part -- a new page in our website called the Prosus way. So go there, check the video. We have a half an hour session also main [indiscernible] culture. So I know some analysts doesn't like to see culture in the presentation. There will be half an hour on that, and it is the best part.

So, Nadim, I think you are right. It usually takes 2, 3, 4 years. We don't have 2, 3, 4 years. So we're giving much less time. And it's a different company how people look to challenge and move faster every day, everyone. And that's where the results come from. Then you asked how is integration on that. Managing that well is a very important thing for the company. So we invest a lot of time. I wouldn't say integration, sharing the best practice, sharing what is nonnegotiable. So entrepreneurship, moving obsession about results, innovation to create the future and take risk and test things are nonnegotiable. If someone doesn't think that this is amazing, you should leave the company or you should leave the company anyway, one way or the other.

But we don't try to say you company being integrated, I don't like the word integration. We don't try to say this is the Prosus, just come here and do the same as we are saying. We needed the entrepreneurial behavior. So instead of integrating, we share amazing practice. We show how -- what is the most amazing results on earth. And people that are entrepreneurs, they say, I'm going to do as good as or better. And that's where it comes the force to keep the company moving faster.

So it's not like an integration. It's more like this is what exceptional look like. We expect better than that for everyone else and people are responding. So it's their merit. And that's why I'm confident that the results in the next 1 year is going to be better because the company is moving much faster. Check the page and come back to Lisa about culture. We're going to talk to them about more details on Wednesday.

I think also when you talk about rituals internally, they -- as time goes by, you have more opportunities to talk about the successes you've had and to get together and to reinforce the messages. And I think that builds the culture very well as well.

Okay. So we're running out of time here. We have one last question that's written in, and it's about kind of broader international expansion. And they asked specifically whether you would be interested in branching out to the Middle East or Kuwait? But also maybe answer that in the context of kind of prioritization and where we are prioritized and perhaps why we're prioritized there.

Let me tell you a few things. We have opportunities in Middle East, lots of them. We have opportunities in Africa. We started in Africa, and we have many business there. We have opportunities in Southeast Asia. So in U.S. So there are many possibilities to invest around the world. What I didn't like 6 months ago is that we are looking to all of them without putting 90% of our energy in some focus where we should be the best in the world and the best in that region. I think we are doing that different today. Our focus in Latin America, India and Europe.

And 95% of the energy and capital of the company is to win on these 3 areas. We are going to win in the 3 areas. Then in the future, for sure, we are going to have a fourth area. Maybe when we win the 4 areas, we're going to have a fifth area. Until there, so our focus is aggressively on these 3 areas. We have legacy investments on all other areas, and we keep people doing experiments outside. So it's very different than doing like $1 billion check is to do a $5 million experiment on some of those areas. And we keep doing specifically in Middle East, for example, to learn, understand, start developing something. So in the future, we may prioritize that.

So it's not our priority today, and we are aggressive -- we aggressively say this is our priority, let's focus on that. At the same time, this is ambidextrous behavior. We know that in the future, we have more things, and we keep experimenting very amount of resources, very entrepreneur behavior to test, to start to learn where is our next big bet. We are experimenting other things, but I think we should not talk about that today because we have our focus, and we have to win on those 3 areas.

That's great. I think I'm worried about it beginning to rain, so we should -- so why don't we close if you want to...

Look, today was the day to talk about numbers. I hope you enjoyed talking about numbers. Wednesday, we talk more about the ecosystem, innovation, strategy, culture. Many of your questions was related to that. Merchandise, don't miss Wednesday, I hope to see you all there personally.

And my closing remarks, I'm very excited about the company now. I know I'm naturally optimistic. Some of you thought that I was when I joined it 1 year ago. I'm optimistic and then look to bottom line and results and discipline. So the good news is I look to bottom line results discipline, and I'm optimistic, and I am even more now because of the quality of the execution of the company today. So hope to have much bigger and better results to share with you in the future.

Fabricio, we will talk about numbers on Wednesday.

All right. Numbers too. [indiscernible]. You cannot miss it.

All right. Thank you very much, everybody.

Good to see you. See you Wednesday. Bye-bye.

This concludes today's call. Thank you, everyone, for joining. You may now disconnect.