PostNL Aktie

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the PostNL Half Year 2026 Results Call. [Operator Instructions]

Now I would like to hand over the conference call to Ms. Inge Laudy, Manager, Investor Relations. Please go ahead, madam.

Thank you, operator, and welcome to you all. We have published our results over the first half of '26 this morning. With me in the room are Pim Berendsen, our CEO; and Linde Jansen, our CFO. I will guide you through a short presentation to explain the results, and we'll then take your questions.

Thank you, Inge, and good morning to all of you. Thanks for joining this half year results update. I'll start with talking you through some key takeaways and then some strategy slides, and Linda will then take over to go in more depth towards the financial performance. So on Slide 5, the highlights, resilient performance in challenging markets, revenue numbers of EUR 1.6 billion, closely and almost in line with last year, slightly improved normalized EBIT, significantly improved free cash flow. And what is important strategically is that we see the volume to value strategy gaining traction and that, for instance, also can be seen in the average price per parcel that is up with 5%.

We consistently see higher growth in European e-commerce activities and obviously declining volumes from Asian web shops predominantly also influenced by the introduction of the custom duties as per January -- July 1 of this year. Crucial step has been the successful implementation of the shift of standard mail to standard mail delivery within 2 days. We obviously prepared for that change for the last 6 to 9 months, a huge effort for all the people involved both in the Mail segment as well in the e-commerce segment, and that implementation has gone very well indeed. So we have confirmed our 2026 outlook. And basically, there's 2 additions to the strategy or attention points that are noteworthy.

We have launched an initiative that will bring us EUR 75 million of additional cost savings, mainly in e-commerce as an answer to the slightly unfavorable market circumstances in the e-commerce domain. And those savings are aimed to reduce the cost price per parcel, which allows us a bit more room on the commercial side of things to optimize the volume to value strategy in the e-commerce segment. And the second point is that we have completely redefined our out-of-home strategy to strengthen the long-term competitive position on the out-of-home domain as well.

On the nonfinancial KPIs, good progress has been made on the share of emission-free last-mile delivery from 32% to 39%. We've maintained our average #1 position in relevant markets in terms of NPS and an improvement of absenteeism that still needs to come down a bit more, but at least it's trending in the right direction. So all in all, a resilient performance in challenging markets. If we then move to Slide 6, 7 or 6 or 8, I should say, just to summarize the key elements of the strategy before we dive into those segments. As you know, we've presented this strategy in September in our Capital Markets Day. At the very top, you find our purpose, connected to deliver all forward. And that is basically what holds everything together.

Just below our strategic intent, we grow our business, create sustainable value, lead through innovation and make impact that matters. And that is basically the lens through which we make our choices. Then one step down, we translate this into ambitions for our 3 business segments. For e-commerce, it's about shifting from value -- volume to value through a differentiated approach and smarter network utilization. For platforms, it's all about capturing international growth asset-light models for mail, it's really transforming towards a future-proof mail service.

We make those transitions by strategic portfolio priorities through which we manage the transition that we're looking for and that leads to 4 concrete objectives on financial KPIs, NPS, carbon efficiency and employee engagement. So that's basically the North Star that guides all our decisions.

If we then go to e-commerce on Slide 8, we clearly have been executing on the volume strategy in intensifying external challenge surroundings. Geopolitical uncertainty has impacted consumer spending, bringing down confidence of consumers down that has also ended up with market growth below our earlier expectations. Furthermore, we see intensifying competition from new market entrants that quite often are tied or somehow related to the Asian platforms. And of course, there's a shift in market dynamics followed by the introduction of the import duty and handling fees for July 1 and still a bit to come by November 1.

At the same time, in terms of execution on our strategy, we're happy with the progress we're making, much more sharper customer segmentation, more differentiated propositions and better and more disciplined volume steering have led to better utilization of networks and margin improvements there. So those yield measures are gaining traction. momentum protects profitability even though we look at lower volumes than last year and also slightly lower than we anticipated in the beginning of the year, but we managed to compensate that by the measures we just discussed. Important from a competitive position is that we keep our high NPS scores as being the #1 for both receiving and sending e-commerce clients. And as said, we have introduced a program that will lead to EUR 75 million of additional cost savings for '27 and '28.

So on Slide 9, we follow up with clear progress monetizing capacity by optimizing customer mix and product mix. Contract renewals have been secured that bring a better balance between volume and margin development. Important negotiations predominantly also in relation to Asian operations have been concluded in the second quarter. And I think you can see in the half year results that kind of capacity management and more operational steering also on best day and network utilization have improved operational efficiency.

The expected cost savings for '26 are according to plan. We aim to get EUR 40 million to EUR 50 million halfway through the year '24. And of course, we want to maintain to be distinctive where it matters. And that's also why we offer smart delivery suggestions in checkout and focus on best day delivery as well. Then on TEN, it's in more detail the kind of the protective measures that strengthen our competitive position going forward, and that will be there to support the path towards our breakthrough 2028 ambitions in a market which is significantly challenging and competitive positions are intensifying. That's why we've launched the cost savings program.

And I think the prerequisites to be able to do so now, we've worked on over the last year or so, and that will allow us now to further simplify the e-commerce organization to even focus more in operational processes to take out costs. A few examples maybe artificial intelligence technology allows us now even a better fill rate of raw cages that, of course, limits the transport capacity that you need, better planning and collection also takes out routes. Those are examples of areas where we can take cost out next to procurement initiatives around big spend categories like IT will contribute to the EUR 75 million of savings, which will bring the total cost savings to EUR 170 million to EUR 180 million for this period.

And of course, in that market space where it is quite challenging, being able to reduce the cost price per parcel is important and creates a bit more flexibility in that market to make the right choices in terms of volume versus value. That's obviously helped by a reduction in the cost price per parcel. And that's why we've launched this additional EUR 75 million of cost savings initiatives. On the other hand, we have fundamentally revisited and redefined our out-of-home strategy. It is increasingly an important differentiator in the e-commerce space.

And we really have changed it completely by taking a different view on the role of out-of-home, having a different proposition in terms of how the network setup should be, how UX/CX needs to be and also will require a step-up in the number of parcel lockers to 7,500 by 2031. So it's really an integrated platform that seamlessly combines merchant checkout, digital customer journeys and high-density network to accelerate the out-of-home adoption against cost price points that are attractive and will push some of the volumes towards the out-of-home network more quickly than with the current proposition.

I think what we've communicated also in the press release is that given the magnitude of messages, we'll have a deep dive on this new strategy around October time to give a bit more insight as to what we're aiming for and how the proposition has been developed going forward. If we then move to platforms, as I said, platforms is all about capturing the international growth through asset-light models. We invest, as you know, in 2026 in improving and expanding the workforce that will allow us in different countries to attract more clients. We have been investing in the IT landscape. The ease of use for asset-light platforms is, of course, crucial, and that gives us competitive edge as well.

We've been expanding the network and predominantly the line haul network, and we've seen double-digit growth of e-commerce volumes in Mainland Europe in the first half year. And of course, we're strengthening our position in Asia beyond our position in China. to further derisk the business and unlock new markets there. That is what we're strategically aiming for. If you talk about progress in 2026, as said, intensifying external challenges, of course, we have seen a shift in market dynamics as Asian web shops redefine their commercial proposition and processes following the introduction of the import duty, and we see them behaving quite differently.

If you compare them that has already in anticipation of July 1 that has impacted volume flows and is continuing to do so quickly after July 1, and we're adjusting the propositions towards that. Of course, we're investing like in other areas in the elements we just discussed to expand our e-commerce base in Europe. And the performance includes those start-up costs as well as start-up costs in fulfillment activities that we also guided in the beginning of the year will be a negative impact for 2026. Then let's move to mail. Although as I just said in the beginning, we're very positive about the implementation to the D+ 2 network. It should be clear for all that urgent political decision is still necessary because the transition to D+2 is by far not enough to get to a sustainable, affordable mail delivery in the Netherlands that is also economically viable, and it would take significantly more than this step to get there.

And that's why we continue to push for the necessary changes in law to be able to move to a within 3-day delivery network later. We're still continuing discussions and legal proceedings around net costs. As you know, the transition up to the point that we have a real full functioning D+3 delivery model are quite substantial, and we believe it's unfair that the company needs to pay for those transitional costs because they really relate to the obligation that is put forth to us in terms of the universal service. So we have the '25 and '26 submissions already done, and we are currently preparing the application for net cost contribution over 2027.

And without quick and decisive action in the political domain, it stays a very, very uncertain period for our employees, our consumers that uses Mail and customers alike. And so it's really crucial that as quickly as possible after recess, discussions in parliament will continue to get to a decision that gets us to an economically viable universal service. On Slide 14, it's the summary of the successful transition to B+ delivery as of July 12 and the implication for the segment performance that we also guided for in the beginning of the year. It's really been a major transformation both in terms of network redesign in the side, but of course, also at the same moment in time, the letter box parcels for D+1 delivery moved from mail to the e-commerce network.

We've introduced a new tariff model to accommodate those changes for our delivery partners. And so far, we are happy with the implementation on both sides. you talk about the cost savings that are in the middle. And in the beginning of the year, we said, of course, there will be cost savings for half year. On the mail side, there will be also additional costs in relation to the implement, but also more importantly, additional costs related to the transfer of the letter box parcels through the e-commerce network.

So the impact in the year of this change will be around EUR 12 million negative for [indiscernible] prerequisite to be able to move to a change later on. On the e-commerce side, full year, we expect EUR 50 million to EUR 60 million extra items, EUR 30 million basically around EUR 30 million for half year. And also within the e-commerce segment, it will be negative -- on that note, it's more detail on the financial performance in total and Linda handle.

Let's move to Slide 16. Let me start with this slide showing an overview of the key reported figures per segment. For Q2, it shows revenue for we also show normalized EBIT. Just to note in the remainder of the presentation, I will focus on the developments on the first half year. For total PostNL, so for the group as a whole, we saw, as Tim just mentioned, stable revenues and a resilient normalized EBIT in challenging markets. But let's have a look at how that looks like per segment, starting with e-commerce on the next slide.

Overall, starting with revenue, we see in e-commerce good progress on our targeted yield measures. This is demonstrated by 5% increase in the average price per parcel despite the challenging external environment, which Tim also just referred to. The revenue amounted to 937 million compared to EUR 961 million last year, a decrease of 2.4% with volumes declining by 6.4%. If you only take the volume-related revenue, the decline was only minus 1.8%. Let's dive a bit deeper into the drivers for this, starting with domestic.

Domestic volumes declined by 4.2% due to weaker market growth, weaker than expected and a limited market share loss, which was in line with our expects following our strategy. Good to see, of course, that the decline in the second quarter was less than in the first quarter. If you then look at our international volumes, those declined by 15%, mainly coming from our Asian web shops. This reflects weaker market conditions our volume to value strategy as well and the new low-cost entrants being mentioned earlier. And very important, we also see first impact especially of the large Asian players to prepare for the introduction of the import duty on the 1st of July.

The volume decline overall was partly offset by a positive price/mix impact of EUR 36 million. I mean, that follows our further progress on our strategic yield measures, so that sticky price increase. The EUR 36 million includes EUR 5 million from fuel surcharges. These kicked in, in the second quarter and we are able to pass through the higher fuel prices, although with a small time left. The yield measures developed in line with plan and were supported by a very limited unfavorable shift in mix. As said, overall, the average price per parcel increased by 5% compared to half year 2025. In the last column, you see the step down in the bucket other, and that is predominantly explained by the sale of PS NO distribution in Q2 last year.

Let's move on to the normalized EBIT bridge for e-commerce on Slide 18. This shows the reconciliation from EUR 15 million in half year 2025 to EUR 12 million in current half year. As just explained on the revenue slide, the decline in volumes driven by weaker market growth, the impact of our volume to value strategy and first effects from the introduction of import duty and handling fees. and a positive price mix effect that was predominantly driven by price increases and including the EUR 5 million fuel charges just mentioned. The organic cost increases amounted to EUR 38 million, including EUR 7 million related to higher fuel costs.

So in the first half year, a EUR 2 million negative gap on fuel exists. But as said before, the surcharges have a time lag, which is a common mechanism in the industry for pass-through of higher fuel prices. Overall, PostNL achieved EUR 24 million in cost saving in the first half year, for example, through a leaner and more efficient operating model in first and middle mile and the shift to out-of-home delivery. These cost savings were partly offset by, for example, higher costs related to sustainability and equipment designed to reduce physical workload. And remember that we expect to overall achieve EUR 40 million to EUR 50 million in cost savings in 2026 for e-commerce.

Let's move on to platforms on Slide 19 with the revenue bridge. And yes, as known, there is some overlap with the e-commerce story I just explained as part of the spring volumes are in our e-commerce network. Overall, revenue was up 1% to EUR 379 million compared to EUR 375 million last half year, with volumes down minus 7.1%. Please note that at constant currencies, the revenue increased by 2.7% instead of 1%. In line with our strategy, European e-commerce volumes continued to grow strongly by 28% in the first half of the year and were offset by declining low-margin traditional mail items, which was predominantly visible in the second quarter due to phasing and the general declining trend in mail. Please note that we already transitioned to become an e-commerce player in the European market with roughly 75% of revenue in Europe currently derived from e-commerce.

Looking at volumes, the split is a bit different. Around 40% of volumes is e-commerce. But in short, so the demand dynamics here are growth in e-commerce and a decline in traditional mail. Looking at the Asian volumes, the Asian volumes, as mentioned earlier, declined and reflect the weaker market conditions. And we see here also the impact from our volume to value strategy and the preparations that were initiated by the Asian web shops for the introduction of the import duty on non-EU parcels for the 1st of July.

Looking at price/mix, we see a very positive delta here. Prices were up in Europe approximately 4%. And obviously, the mix effect is favorable, particularly in Europe, explained by the strong growth in e-commerce volumes versus the declining mail and of course, also the shift in mix between European and Asian volumes play a role. Looking at other revenue that showed a decline and includes My Parcel other services as, for example, fulfillment and some intra-segment eliminations.

Let's move to Slide 20, showing the normalized EBIT bridge for platforms, showing the reconciliation from EUR 3 million in half year 2025 to minus EUR 3 million this half year. And that the root cause, therefore, is mainly related to our strategy to invest in international expansion. The revenue drivers I just explained, so I won't repeat that, but let's look at the cost. The organic costs for platforms increased by EUR 9 million, and that is mainly related to increasing third-party costs for international transport and distribution.

PostNL continues to invest, as mentioned, in the expansion of its intra-European activities, My Parcel and other services. That means more marketing efforts, expansion of staff and investing in IT, as Ping also earlier on referred to. For our fulfillment activities, we have opened a center in Germany this year. So in the bucket other results, you also see the impact of the start-up cost thereof. Good to mention that the overall net FX impact on normalized EBIT was 0.

And then moving to the last and third segment, Mail. Starting with the revenue bridge on Slide 28 -- 21, apologies. Revenue rose by 0.5% to EUR 623 million compared to EUR 620 million last year. This is mainly explained by the combined impact from volume development and tariff increases. The mail volumes were down only 5.3% in the first half year. The main reason for this limited decline are the elections in the first quarter of 2026 of around EUR 90 million items. If you adjust for this election mail, volume decline was 7.9%, evidencing the continuation of the underlying trend of structurally declining mail volumes. The impact from volume decline was more than offset by a positive price/mix effect. Stamp prices were up 6.9% as of the 1st of January of this year and 8.3% as of mid-2025.

In the bucket other, you see an EUR 8 million decline, and that is amongst others, related to international mail. Then moving to the bridge, the normalized EBIT bridge for Mail on Slide 20, 22. The volume decline and price mix effects I just explained. Looking then at the cost, the organic cost increases of EUR 15 million are mainly due to wage increases and other inflationary pressures. And then you see the cost savings of EUR 12 million, of which the majority is related to adjustments in sorting and delivery processes. And we also see that cost for IT, partly related to the transition to D+2, which we just completed and transport costs increased. That's about the segments.

Let's now have a look at the free cash flow. I'm really pleased with the development that we report over the first half year of 2026. We see the free cash flow coming in at EUR 70 million minus, which is a significant improvement compared with last year. The strong improvement reflects our continued focus on proactive working capital management and also partly relates to prior year phasing effects. Thanks to our well-executed cash and balance sheet management, we are on track to deliver full year free cash flow within our outlook range. let's wrap up at Slide 24 and look at our outlook.

We confirm, as said by Pim, we confirm our outlook for the full year 2026 and which was shared with you on the 23rd of February. For normalized EBIT, our outlook is between EUR 40 million and EUR 70 million, and we expect that to translate into a free cash flow of somewhere between 0 and minus EUR 30 million. The outlook is based on an assumed total revenue growth of between 5% and 7%, where it's obviously fair to assume that we will end up closer to the lower end of the range, taking the volume development in the first half of the year into account. As just explained, despite the volume decline, the bottom line result was resilient, where we expect further momentum in operational efficiency going forward.

2, we continue to invest in our strategic focus areas with CapEx expected to be around EUR 125 million while lease payments will be at the same level as in 2025. Expected organic cost increases remain high around EUR 140 million, mainly labor and other inflationary pressures. But price increases are expected to be more than sufficient to mitigate this. Our focus will continue to be on strong cost control and further efficiency improvements, building on our proven efforts to reduce cost. Please note that the outlook 2026 assumes limited impact from changes in treatment of the de minimis threshold in the EU and in the U.S. or in related handling and clear could evolve during the year and could therefore impact performance. In the past half year, we have implemented and working solutions for handling and clearance fees as of 1 July and later on also in November.

Further, the outlook excludes the prolonged geopolitical uncertainty may increase inflation pressure and impact consumer spending. I will now hand back to Linde.

[Operator Instructions] Question comes from the line of Frank Claassen from Banque Degroof.

A question on the e-commerce volumes. If I recall well, you started the year with an assumption of 1% to 3% volume growth, yet we're now at minus 6.4% for the first half. So what is fair to assume for the full year? What is currently reflected in your guidance on volume growth? That is my first question. And a bit related to that on the pricing, the average price per parcel went up 5%. Is it fair to assume that it will go up even further in the second half given the lag in the fuel price surcharges? Any comments on that would be helpful.

Thanks, Frank, for your questions. Regarding your first question on the 1% to 3% e-commerce volume growth, you are correct as the developments in market growth were lower than we anticipated at the beginning of the year. It is fair to assume that the volumes for full year will not meet the 1% to 3% mentioned earlier. At the same time, as you see in our current performance, the drivers underlying price mix, our operational efficiency are gaining traction and are showing also bottom line results, and we expect further momentum there in the second half of the year. And then on your second question on the price per parcel, well, yes, of course, you can also given our seasonal pattern, you can expect with pricing with peak charges, et cetera, that trend will accelerate in the remainder of the year.

And our next question comes from the line of Marco Limite from Barclays Bank.

I got a few. So first question is on your statement that some important contracts have been concluded in Q2. What does that mean for the second half? I think you just mentioned that pricing should further accelerate in the second half. But should we also expect an improvement in volumes on a year-over-year basis versus the first half? I guess that will be the first question. My second question is on the platform business. So in Q2, we have seen a proper slowdown of volumes versus Q1.

Now in the slides, you mentioned there was already some impact from the Din guidance, you don't expect any impact in the second half. So if you can clarify this point, what is the expectation for the volumes in the platform business and why we should expect any impact if -- I mean there are already some data out there showing some slowdown of growth from Asia to Europe.

And the third question is on your business. mentioned before that you're working on submitting a request for the cost of USO '27, but you are still, let's say, fighting for the '25 and -- so at the same time, you received a fine for quality of service a couple of years ago. So the backdrop quite challenging in terms of negotiations. Any color you can give that any progress you've made sort of confidence that...

Okay. Let's go one by one. Yes, I think as part of the volume to value strategy and as you know, not all contracts at the same date, there has been a lot of negotiations concluded within Asian web shops into and throughout Q2. Those contracts have now been secured and we know against which conditions, which rates, which volume we expect to carry for them. will go a long way in continuing the strategy from volume to value.

Of course, overall volume that we get is a function of how they commercially perform themselves. But those contracts in volume. So if they are below a certain threshold, then the price will move up even more than the base volumes that we contracted them on. So I think important keynotisforce our conviction that we're on the right path in terms of volume to value strategy. I think the second question in relation or the follow-up question in relation to, do you expect improvement of volumes in the second part of the year, overall, we do expect an improvement from the minus 6.4% a year based on the answer just gave on the question I'll take question 3 and then I question at the same time, we feel strongly that it cannot be our problem that we need to pay for the transition cost that we pay for that are out there as a function of an obligation that we action the outlook...

Yes. So on your question with the volumes amongst others for platform and Asia, et cetera, we say in our outlook that we assume limited impact. Obviously, that is still the case. So we, of course, face ourselves now, as also mentioned by impact thereof. However, these are the first weeks. Those parties are now also well, trying to organize themselves and make sure how their new logistics model. And well, we assume overall in the long term, no structural impact for the longer term. And therefore, we hold on to our performance. And in addition to that, also good to note, as you also see in our current performance that given our -- this time, volume decline, we are adapting well to that to scale down and adjust our cost accordingly.

Okay. And if I may, just a quick follow-up on this. So you are saying that some of the international clients are adjusting the business model the examples of what has been made so far are we seeing clients building more warehouses or in Europe? And what does that mean for you? So are you...

I think there you need to be very precise. I think [indiscernible] make different choices as how they handle distant market situation. Thus, platforms and basically say we will manage value on a basket size basis and we will own that basket to [indiscernible] the vast majority and then maybe slightly push a bit of the external cost up through the price points of the basket, that one options. So basically [indiscernible that isn't really thinking about a new logistical process because they think they can offset the value of the split between what the consumer will pay and what they will take additional cost on their side.

Others take a different view and want to move to higher value product categories that those and move away from the really, really low and very cheap products where a EUR 3 increase in cost is still material. And you will probably see others that will continue down the road of low-value goods through European warehousing solution. So increasing warehousing capacity in Europe, flying it in or cargo it in bulk, so not at a 2C delivery parcel, but in bulk to circumvent the handling fees and duties and then pick them back from there and distribute it through various carriers towards the final consumer.

So there's different parties taking different the end of the day, yes, it's all about where will the volume go, it will be shifting in competitive landscape between those Asian platforms. There will probably be new entrants taking the lower end of the value chain and there will potentially also be competitive implications for the European web shops where some of the Asian players really intend to move up to higher value products in which they will then subsequently compete with the current existing European platforms in those spaces. there we, of course, follow this closely. It's important that we maintain a good share of wallet in the most important clients that are willing to pay for service. That is what we secured throughout the contracts that I've given you answer on one of your earlier questions. So that's how the market evolves at this point in...

Next question comes from Henk Slotboom from The Idea.

All the degree of disclosure of numbers, which very happy. But I have a couple of questions. First of all, you talk a lot about the business and about the Chinese business. But last week, I listened into the CPT conference call, they said that C suffered because a lot of volume was now flowing to the Belux countries of Madrid, for example, into the Central Eastern Europe [indiscernible] what am I missing in the case because we see a quite clear in the Asian volumes in Spring. Is that pure value over volume? Or is it something else? And what is triggering the European volume so much? Does it have to do with the opening of the fulfillment center in Germany, I believe it's one of the Sanish second question I have is on e-commerce and about domestic volumes in particular.

You've been giving deliberately up some market share by means of the value over volume strategy. And if I look at the average value per parcel, if I look at quite clearly visible that improves your yield. But how far can you go in giving up volume because at the same time, you see doing a lot of work for the Chinese handling for Amazon. We have Express, a new name has 85% nationwide coverage at least that's what they plan traditional players stepping up import has entered the market as well. How do you deal with that?

Is it the cost savings element and reducing the cost per item is, of course, one part of the story, but what can you do to make the volumes grow again? And then the final question I have is on Mail the basically to deal with situation right now develop on that front? Those are my questions.

First question had correct me if not, let's say, answered them. I think there's a couple of elements that I want to single out. I think Spring Europe e-commerce volume is double-digit number that Linde talked about and that is a function of expanding the pan from Italy to Spain, from Spain to Germany by attracting local clients that fill those trade lanes and bring us in a more competitive position, not necessarily always, but there also the fulfillment proposition comes into play and that really not capital intensive fulfillment activities where we also manage warehouses and fulfillment activities for bigger clients that want to ship throughout Europe.

I think there, the growth is as we would like it to be is a function of the growth plan that we launched in September and is going according to plan. The overall spring volumes are depressed by the development in quarter by phasing on the European international mail volumes that don't contribute that much. So in terms of revenue, not that significant, but in terms of volume that makes a very good 8% e-commerce volume growth diluted.

On the Asian side, I don't see more volume coming to Amsterdam or what we do see is that our clearance solution is working working from the get-go, which is, of course, important because that clarifies towards consumers under which conditions they can still buy from other parties and we're able to administer and also fulfill the custom duties in the chain. And I think there, of course, we already saw based on examples that we've had in Romania and Italy that goods in transit has been a big issue. In other words, how do we exactly know that a product that is bought just before July doesn't get any duty if it accesses the country on July 1 or July 2.

So that basically has led a lot of the parties to 3, 4 weeks in advance, stop marketing campaigns, not push more products towards Europe to avoid goods in transit being treated in a different way. And that has impacted Q2 numbers. We've, of course, seen the drops in volume. We also now see the Asian web shops adjusting their business model, adjusting their pricing strategies, reentering the marketing arena to do the marketing campaigns again and that's why we said that we don't expect a longer-term structural impact that is going to be material in terms of EBIT contribution from those changes. That could, in the meantime, still lead to very volatile volume developments.

We quite often have share of wallet arrangements with those parties. So although there are new entrants, they sometimes forced by our volume-to-value strategy, have kicked out other carriers. And now our share is just a function basically on how successful they are to adjust their commercial models after the July 1 implementation. I think that is the answer on the first set of questions. If you then go to the e-commerce domestic volume, yes, it is a delicate balance between volume development, yield and market share. I think the market share loss is within the boundaries of what we find acceptable.

Domestic volume development has obviously also impacted by lower consumer spending. So I think the flywheel of yield improvement could have worked even better with a bit more consumer spending as we also anticipated in the beginning of the year. But to -- well, to alleviate or to compensate or to derisk on this dilemma or these commercial game plans, it's obviously helpful to reduce your cost price per parcel. And that's why we introduced the 75 additional costs. Another point in competitive landscape is our redefined out-of-home strategy will also be significantly better equipped to compete with some of the other players you mentioned. That also strengthens our competitive position and over time, will also strengthen the domestic volume development. So far, not unsatisfied with the domestic performance, but a close monitoring of market share development and yield and volume increases remains crucial, and that's what we do on a daily basis.

And that's also why it's important to look at the answers that Linda gave that we have been able to adjust the network and create efficiencies in the network utilization so that yield isn't suffering that much with lower volume than anticipated. third point, yes, this is sensitive. I don't think that ACM got it right. They said something about the permit on 2018 basis. So it's up to ACM to do their research. Of course, we feel that there is no need at all to amend anything. We've adhered to the conditions of the permit. The permit was there at the day that we acquired and was there when we integrated the business but let's say I don't have clarity right now as to where AM is in their research or their investigation. So I cannot tell you more about it right now.

And our next question comes from the line of Marc Zwartsenburg from ING.

Cost savings in the driver of the...

Thanks Mark. Well, as mentioned, so it is mainly within ecommerce, but also in the related support function, so HR, finance, IT. And, well, we refer to the phasing for the total whole year, so 2027 and 2028. And I would say you can calculate with approximately 50-50 over this both years.

And our final question comes from the line of Marco Limite from Barclays.

I could just go one again on the business model of the platform business because you were mentioning before noncapital-intensive fulfillment activities. You are making the example of Italian volumes into Spain, Germany and so on. So can you just explain to us really what is the activity here? And what -- I mean how you are offering noncapital-intensive fulfillment center activities? And is this the business model doing more of that in the next year?

It is really what it is. So if there's clients that say we're happy with the logistical solution, but can you also help me out with fulfillment activities, we, in conjunction with that client, think about the best way to do so. So quite often, it's, for instance, a lease obligation the client takes and we just operate the location. Sometimes it's us taking the leasehold back-to-back commitments from the client to compensate for that. But given the type of business we're in, given the type of clients the country support, it's not highly a fulfillment activities. It's for the efficiency improvements there and that's why it is less capital intensive than other segments...

Got it. And is the plan to, let's say, build up a fulfillment business, which is related to...

In relation to our European growth business and only in relation to the type of customers that Spring serve that will not lead to big investments in fulfillment centers. So it's an organically developing model only to the extent that it helps us creating more density in the pan-European trade lanes to make even more...

Maybe ask one. When we think about the new 75 million cost savings, should we think about those cost savings as an offset to maybe lower volume decline or a way to protect your margins? Or this is actually in your business plan offers further upside to where you think you are?

As I said, it's really derisking created room to maneuver in slightly more competitive market circumstances. So don't add this just to the ambitions of 2028. It will derisk the plan. If that comes with slightly better volume development, then performance will accelerate beyond the ambition, but let's get first to ambition that all we set for 2028 and this [indiscernible] for the combination of the factors that she has had, so [indiscernible] derisking slightly lower volume development being more precise at to which price points or value points penetrates if you want to entertain, it helps maintain the market share at the level we think to maintain for and it actually derisks the commercial elements of e-commerce plan and gives us more confidence so that we can get through them, through the 2028 objectives.

Okay. And when you say that [indiscernible] EUR 170 to EUR 180 million, you're being this cost to the sort of [indiscernible] I mean, the cost on this group cost savings, so specifically e-commerce or...

It's mainly e-commerce because we do this to derisk for the comp e-commerce. But as Linda said, it also involves some functions that are also working on behalf of e-commerce. So it aims to impact the e-commerce phase.

There are no further questions at this time. So I'll hand the call back to Inge for closing remarks.

Thank you all for joining today. If you have any questions, you know how to reach us. Thank you and speak to you in October.

This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect. Speakers, please

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the PostNL trading update Q1 2026 results. [Operator Instructions] Now I would like to hand over the conference call to Ms. Inge Laudy, Manager, Investor Relations. Please go ahead, madam.

Thank you, operator, and to you all. We have published our Q1 '26 trading update this morning. It is the first time that we chat to you in this format and we will explain the highlights of Q1 in this analyst call.

With me in the room is Linde Jansen, our CFO. She will guide you through a short presentation, and we'll then take your questions. Please go ahead, Linde.

Thank you, Inge. Well, let's start this first trading update by giving you a short and factual overview on the first quarter. I will then give more color on relevant developments in a minute.

Revenue came in at EUR 781 million, which is about flat compared to previous quarter last year. Although we will not quantify normalized EBIT and free cash flows in the quarters that we provide a trading update, I can mention that these metrics developed in line with expectations and followed the usual seasonal pattern.

With that, we confirm the outlook for 2026 as we have shared with you on 23rd of February 2026 when presenting our full year 2025 results. I would also like to mention here that for Mail, as of mid-July, we will shift towards a standard delivery framework within 2 business days. a major operational shift that requires careful preparations.

We are on track to go live on 12th of July. Obviously, there is more to tell on the path to a future proof postal surface, which I will do a bit later.

To summarize the first quarter of 2026 for PostNL, I would phrase it as disciplined execution of our new strategy while navigating growing geopolitical uncertainty. The current tension and uncertainty in the Middle East weighs on consumer confidence, domestic consumption and fuel costs.

With regard to fuel, it's good to mention that the direct financial impact of increasing fuel prices is mitigated by fuel surcharges as is usual in the transport sector. Though the current geopolitical situation is certainly an explanation for weaker growth of the e-commerce market, that entails sharper customer segmentation, differentiated propositions and disciplined volume steering.

We see that our targeted measures gained traction and are expected to build further momentum during 2026. [Audio Gap] with temporary pressure on volumes, an effect that will fade out over time and is taken into account in our projections.

At platforms, the strategic aim is to accelerate international growth via our asset-light models, Spring and MyParcel, with European e-commerce driving volume and revenue growth. For our Asian e-commerce activities, we apply the value-focused approach, as just explained.

As you know, an important pillar of our strategy is our commitment to securing a sustainable postal service. We are currently preparing for a major operational transition and are on track to switch to a standard framework for all mail, including USO mail of delivery within 2 business days as of mid-July, an important but intermediate step towards a future-proof postal service.

To reach a long-term viable postal service, there are more conditions that have to be met. First, an extension of the delivery framework to within 3 business days is necessary to allow for further cost savings potential. Furthermore, clear and timely political decisions to amend the Postal Act are crucial to avoid further delays.

But also compensation for net USO costs in traditional years is needed. In this quarter, legal proceedings regarding compensation for the net USO costs and withdrawal of current designation were formally initiated, and last but not least, a timely completion of tender process for government mail under appropriate conditions is really key for the longer-term perspective of the postal market.

Then we move to our key reported figure for the first quarter of 2026 summarized in the table you see on this slide, with volume and revenue shown per segment. It follows the new segments as presented to you at our Capital Markets Day last September.

In the back slides of this presentation, you will find a reconciliation to help you. Again, this is a high-level summary. And on the next slide, I will guide you to more details at segment level.

Bottom line, revenue for the group in the first quarter of this year amounted to EUR 781 million, which is in line with last year.

Let's move to the segments and starting with e-commerce. Overall, we see good progress of the targeted yield measures demonstrated by 4.1% increase in the average price per parcel, however, in a more challenging external environment. Revenue amounted to EUR 451 million compared to last year EUR 473 million, down 4.5% with volumes declining minus 7.1%.

If you would look only at the volume-related revenue, the 7.1% volume decline resulted in 3.3% decline in revenue instead of the 4.5% I just mentioned. Let's dive a bit deeper into the key drivers.

Domestic volumes were down 5.5% primarily reflecting weaker market growth related to lower consumer spending compared with last year. Market share was slightly down and developed as expected following targeted yield measures.

International volumes, mainly from Asian web shops were down 13.2%, reflecting the weaker market growth and temporary pressure related to the deliberate contract negotiations under PostNL's volume-to-value strategy. The volume decline was partly offset by a positive price/mix impact of EUR 14 million, predominantly driven by price, evidencing further progress on our targeted yield measures.

The yield measures came in according to plan and were supported by a minor favorable shift in mix. The average price per parcel was up 4.1% compared to Q1 2025. The step down that you see in the bucket other is predominantly explained by the sale of PS Nachtdistributie in Q2 2025, which means that in Q1 2025, it still contained revenue from the former subsidiary.

Let's move to platforms. Revenue was up 2.6% to EUR 185 million, with volumes up 1.2% [Audio Gap] at constant currencies, reflecting underlying business performance, revenue increased 5.9%.

In line with our strategy to expand our intra-European business, European volumes were growing by 9.6%, while volumes from Asia declined double digits, reflecting weaker market growth and temporary pressure related to the deliberate contract negotiations under PostNL's volume-to-value strategy. Also, at platforms, prices increased and were supported by a favorable mix effect.

Other revenues showed a slight decline. And then the third and last segment, Mill. Revenue rose by 2.1% to EUR 316 million versus EUR 309 million in the quarter last year. mainly explained by the impact from volume development and tariff increases. Adjusted for election mail, volume decline was 8%, showing the continuation of the underlying trend of structurally declining mail volumes.

Overall, mail volumes were down 2.8% this quarter, supported by EUR 90.4 million items related to elections. The impact from the volume decline was more than offset by a positive price/mix effect. Stamp prices were up 6.9% as of the 1st of January of this year. and 8.3% as per mid-2025.

I already told a lot about the preparations towards the standard mail delivery framework of D+2 that involves major adjustments in routes and working schedules. The social plan is applicable, and we have established an implementation organization to safeguard a disciplined execution of the change program.

To wrap up, we confirm our outlook for 2026 as on 2023 of February communicated. For normalized EBIT, our outlook is between EUR 40 million and EUR 70 million, and we expect that to translate into a free cash flow of between 0 and minus EUR 30 million. That outlook is based on the assumption of an expected total revenue growth of between 5% and 7%. And in 2026, we continue to invest in our strategic focus areas, with CapEx expected to be around EUR 125 million, while the lease payments will be at the same level as in 2025.

The expected organic cost increases remain high, around EUR 140 million expected, mainly labor related, and other inflationary pressure. But price increases are expected to be more than sufficient to mitigate this. Our focus will continue to be on strong cost control and further efficiency improvements. building on our proven efforts to reduce costs.

The graph on the left side indicates the assumed development of normalized EBIT on a segment level. Please note that the outlook of 2026 assumes limited impact from changes in the treatment of the de minimis thresholds in the EU and the U.S. or in related customs handling and clearance fee structures.

The scope and timing could evolve during the year and could impact performance. We are ready to implement a valid operational solution for customs handling and clearing fees in the course of the year. Furthermore, the outlook excludes the risk that prolonged geopolitical uncertainty may increase inflationary pressure and impact consumer spending.

So to conclude this presentation, 2026 will be the year to reach the inflection point in the execution of our strategy. With an outlook for normalized EBIT of between EUR 40 million and EUR 70 million and free cash flow of between 0 and minus EUR 30 million.

For e-commerce, the focus is on a continued and disciplined path towards sustainable value creation. At platforms, the focus will be at further investments to capture international growth, and at Mail, 2026 will be really a transitional year towards a future-proof postal network with impact for people and processes. As of mid-July, we will shift to a delivery framework of D+2, an important step forward.

Thank you.

Thank you, Linde. So time to open up for Q&A. Right now, operator, can you please explain?

[Operator Instructions] And our first question today comes from the line of Michiel Declercq from KBC Securities.

I understand, of course, that you don't give any numbers more on the EBIT in the trading updates. But I was just wondering, you mentioned that you remain on track with the typical seasonality, of course, in mind. But if you look at the top line updates, both in e-commerce and platform, it looks like you're trending a bit -- well below the guidance for the full year. So minus 7% domestic -- or minus 7% e-commerce volumes versus a guidance of plus 1% to 3% for the full year. At platforms, you are also a bit trading below the top line.

So I'm just trying to understand how the EBIT can be in line, whereas the top line is clearly lagging a bit. And then also I understand, of course, the geopolitical situation might play an impact. Can you give some color on the phasing here, the difference that you've seen between the January and February months versus March and then also exiting in the month of April, to help us understand a bit? So that would be my first question.

And then secondly, also, we have seen in Belgium that there has been a prolonged strike at one of your key competitors there. Should we expect any positive volumes from that in the second quarter at your end? And then maybe because you are also in, let's say, negotiations with the unions following the shift to D+2, how are negotiations going there? And how are the suggested changes being perceived by the unions. Those will be my questions, please.

Yes. Thank you, Michiel. Well, let's start with your first question on the top line development versus our -- versus the statement that normalized EBIT is expected to develop in line with expectations and follows the usual pattern.

Yes, indeed, I can imagine this is a new setup of our trading update and the way we present it. But to comment on your question, it's, of course, to start with our revenue, that's what we see. We see proof coming from our yield measures. And that is what we see in -- also what you see in the performance as reflected in the press release, where you see that our revenue impact is significantly better than the impact on the volumes.

So that is, of course, a driving element. It's not just volumes, what you see in revenues, but also yields and mix, which have an overall impact. And of course, overall, we are very disciplined and continue to be disciplined on our strong and a decent cost savings measures, which are fully on track. And as such, we can confirm that the normalized EBIT development is in line with our expectations and the usual seasonal pattern.

And maybe lastly, of course, you know that the first quarter is overall, in the end, not the biggest contributor to the full year performance. And that all together brings us that we can confirm our normalized EBIT development in line with our expectations.

Then on your second question on the geopolitical implications. Well, we cannot detail out on the exact January, February, March, but of course, what you do see is, if you look at, for instance, the figures and the steps from CBS, you that there is a -- if you look at the domestic consumption of goods, you see in -- for January and February, you see the months over time deteriorating. So that is the implications for the weaker market growth, which we also observed from these external sources.

And of course, yes, we don't have that glass ball for the future, and that's why we also -- we monitor the uncertainty, we monitor what's out there, and we adapt to whatever we can control and make sure that we are prepared to the best we know.

Then your question on Belgium. Well, to start with Belgium, as you know, the strikes only started near the end of March. So of course, only a minor part of this quarter. And secondly, overall, Belgium volumes are rather limited or small part of our total volumes. Of course, we monitor and closely follow the developments. And of course, the strikes over there are helpful to us.

And then regarding your last question. Well, overall, we do not have any discussions on D+2 with the unions or the CLA postal deliverers. We have clearly been in close contact with them with the transition to D+2. We have involved them in all our steps which we have taken very close collaboration with them to take them on board when the first signs of these [Audio Gap] them to be able to make these transitions.

And overall, so the preparations are fully on track and as said, what is very important is that we constantly are in alignment with the unions and also the people itself, the people involved to take them along this transition because, well, you can imagine this is really changing for approximately 50,000 deliverers.

The daily routes, their daily ways to work. So it's very important that we put the right attention and effort, but also financial safety for them with the social plan to have that covered up. So I hope that answered your 4 questions.

The next question comes from the line of Marco Limite from Barclays.

I've got a follow-up question on the parcel volume growth. Clearly, Q1 was a slow start of the year. Now I understand the price/mix was positive, but you still have got a guidance out there of volume growth within 1% to 3%. So are you still committed to that guidance? And if so, does that mean that we should see volume growth stepping up to a larger number in Q2 already?

And then when you mentioned temporary headwinds to volume growth, what kind of visibility do you have that these are temporary and therefore, you will be able to, let's say, gain these volumes back?

And then maybe a final question on your statement that you're waiting for a tender process for government mail. So can you just clarify what this tender process means and the timing of it?

Yes. Thank you, Marco. On your first question on the volume growth assumptions. Well, let me start that looking at our outlook, it's good to make a clear distinction between assumptions and the real outlook. And 1% to 3% volume growth is our assumptions next to a few others.

And I said also in my reply to Michiel, overall, when looking at revenue development, there are many, many drivers to revenue development. And of course, well, as said, we cannot look into the future and determine how market growth will develop.

But overall, we see that what we are -- we see that with the fact that we have such a disciplined execution of our volume to value strategy and that we see the proof points thereof, we are confident in our strategy and also confirm the outlook which we provide. And that's also why we confirm that today in our press release.

If you then look at the -- your second question on the temporary negotiations. Well, of course, these are very careful contract negotiations with several customers. And well, why are we confident that it is or consider it temporary because we are really in the middle of those negotiations.

And we really believe in our strategy as such and also in the way that we deliver and continue to deliver strong NPS, which also for these parties is a very valid element, and as such, given where we are, we believe that we will bring that to the end and that this is part of the game we and they are playing.

Of course, I cannot comment now because we don't have fixed conclusion dates and they all have different start and end dates. But of course, that's relating to those temporary pressures. And as said, the temporary pressure is not just the only one driving the volume decline. As just also mentioned, the market -- the weaker market growth is also -- the general market conditions are also playing here.

And then the last question, let me remind that this was on the tender process. Yes, let me give some color to you on that. So how that normally works. So the tender has been set out. There was already an earlier tender set out by the government, though that tender was canceled eventually or not called official and was as such had to be renewed.

And the current tender is out there to have start for the 1st of July and refereeing to under appropriate conditions is the fact that in the former tender one of the elements which was contradicting in the tender was relating to the surface quality loans.

So in the former tender, you still had the old quality levels or old -- the service levels of 95% while we are now moving officially to service level requirements of 90% when we transition to D+2. So actually, they were not communicating with each other. So if you have a tender for 95%, but our network will be set up for 90%, we cannot help it.

But we expect to have the new tender being finalized in the coming months and then to be ready by the 1st of -- or we aim to have it ready by the 1st of January 2027. And that, of course, depends not just on us, but it's really the government who controls it, and we really urge for that timely completion.

If I may, a quick follow-up question. So on your contract negotiation, especially with international volumes, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but you're basically trying to push through higher prices. So I mean, these clients are generally very price sensitive. So let's say, can you give just some color why you think these international volumes or clients will be willing to set higher prices and not, let's say, go with a competitor? I guess, at the moment, if they're not using PostNL as volumes are dropping, they are using someone else. So how do you win them back with higher prices as well?

Well, let me start by saying that yield measures are not just price increases. So yield measures contain also measures in the area of efficiency and equal flow agreements. So it's not just pricing, but it's a combination of pricing and the efficiency elements I just referred to.

And in addition to that, what is important is also the factor of quality. So we are strong in our NPS, and that is also well noted by these type of clients. So it is a combination of those factors, which makes us the move and have the negotiation discussions with them.

Your next question today comes from the line of Marc Zwartsenburg from ING.

A follow-up on the temporariness of the impact of the negotiations. Can you give us a bit of a time line when you think these contracts are renewed or renegotiated because we have 1 quarter, if you say you're halfway, basically means that also Q2 will see the impact and maybe even a bit worse. How should I look at the volume development going into Q2 from this temporary weakness?

Yes. Thanks, Marc, for your question. Yes, on that temporariness of those negotiations. Well, I cannot really give fixed dates or conclusion dates for that as it's, of course, a combination of more clients and they have different dates and also different negotiation paths. So I cannot give you that specific answer as such.

But how can you then guide for your full year on volumes and the outcome of yield plus volume because that's a bit what you tried to say on Marco's question, yes, maybe it's a combination of the both. But how do you then know what the impact will be?

Well, I should say it's a combination of both. And of course, we have -- as I said, it's not just one client or one customer, right? This is at hand. So it's a combination of many. And of course, well, that's the balance of when a few of them are close to finalization and the ones to start. So that mix is obviously what we take into account into our forward-looking statement, and that's what we confirm in our outlook as still applicable.

And if you then look at your volume, your volume decline of minus 7.1%. You also mentioned that consumer spending data as deteriorating in Q1. Well, we now have the full impact from energy prices on probably consumer spending, so things might get worse.

How should I look then to that trend of minus 7%? Was that starting January with a small minus and ending with a double-digit decline now in April? Because you gave this outlook somewhere mid, end Feb. So you basically didn't see a minus 7% already in January to give such an outlook. So can you give me a bit of feel how that works and how you see that trend going into Q2?

Well, so when we provided the outlook in mid Feb, of course, we introduced that one month but also, it is you have several assumptions underlying that. And secondly, with that geopolitical uncertainty, we also don't know how that will develop and that's also why we explicitly refer to that in our outlook and refer to that as a comment to our outlook.

And last but not least, of course, it's not for nothing that we always include the range in our outlook. And that is something which is connecting to that because you cannot -- well, we also don't know precisely how that will -- I wish it was true, we could determine it like that.

But necessarily saying, yes, it was mid of Feb, we saw January and then you draw a conclusion for the rest of the year. Well, that's quite too soon to tell, I would say. So it is not something static as such.

Just looking at actuals over a monthly basis, you have almost 4 months in the back. Could you give us a bit more color on how that trend is -- what the trend is looking like? Is it rather stable? Or is it something starting high and now at almost double-digit decline or any color on that, that gives us a bit more feel on how we should model it?

Yes. Well, of course, for P4 it's not locked. So I cannot comment on that. The only thing I can confirm is the fact that we confirm our outlook and also that we stick to that. So more color on that, I cannot give to you. Sorry.

All right. Basically, if the volumes are a bit behind, then there must be something more positive in your expectations. That is a bit what I'm looking for maybe on the cost side or the yield side or a combination of those, that would be...

Yes, but as I said, so revenues and EBIT development are not just driven by volume. And as I said before also in the comment to Michiel, we are very capable and strong in our disciplined cost management and efficiency measures. As such, that's a combination together with the yield measures which are also part of that performance. So it's not just volume.

Got it. That is something I was looking for. And then lastly, with the Mail going to D+2 negotiation with the unions, is there any social plan, will that have a big impact on the cash flow? Can you give us any feel for that?

Yes. Well, indeed, there is a social plan, but it is limited impact.

And that's already included and anticipated in the outlook...

Yes, of course, yes.

[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from the line of Henk Slotboom from The Idea.

I hope you don't mind me telling you a little bit more on the volume decrease we see in international parcels, both in platforms and in e-commerce. If I look at what happened in the first quarter, then France has already introduced the EUR 2 per parcel or per product line surcharge on parcels that were not coming from the EU.

And the result was that a lot of the traffic was diverted to Liege and to Amsterdam Schiphol Airport. What I'm struggling with is it shows that the Chinese are very much oriented on price. If they can avoid euro, then they bring their stuff elsewhere.

Is that part of the reason why Europe has done so well in the case of Spring? Intra-Europe traffic was up by 9.6%. It has to come from somewhere, but there appears to be a mismatch with the double-digit decline from Asia. So perhaps you can shed some light on it. And then I have some follow-up questions as well. But perhaps let's take this one first, I would suppose.

Yes. Well, regarding your comment on the France situation, yes, of course, we also know that those movements are happening. However, there are more parties and brokers over there. And what we see is that the brokers over there and sure it still ends up again in France. As such, we don't see that movement you are describing as such in the market.

And then on the question of -- or on your note, so how does it -- is it also impacting those, let's say, the France situation specifically the inter-European volumes. I think what is driving the intra-European growth is actually our execution of the strategy.

So we have really been investing a lot in that international expansion and in that intra-European expansion also already last year and also with the required investments in marketing and new line walls, and that is what you see now is that we see traction on that -- those volumes. And that is not necessarily driven by the France situation you are referring to.

Well, in connection with my previous question, you've already said that it's not only about price negotiations that are taking place now with the Asian web shops. It's also about equal flow. If I refer back to the EUR 2 in France, doesn't that show that there's more opportunity for you in creating more equal flow from the Chinese.

I know that in the old situation, you were stuck to certain arrangements and that was not automatically -- that did not automatically mean that you could deliver the Chinese goods on the days that you prefer on the low days, let me put it in those phases. Is there more for you to gain in the equal flow element and in the pricing elements when it comes to Asian volumes?

Yes. Well, maybe specifically on that question with equal flow. That is equal flow really where we still applies to our own network. And here, it is specifically not necessarily only our own network.

And secondly on that, where we can -- where we have an opportunity, let's put it like that, is, of course, we have a lot of experience with customs and all that situation in the way we have built up that knowledge over years. And that's also why with all these changes in handling fees and in de minimis thresholds, for us, it is key to make sure and we are sure that we are ready for the right operational solution to cater for those complex regulations and that we are already there to serve our customers as they are used to from us.

Then 2 further questions, if I may. One is on MyParcel. It says MyParcel and other services, and then I see a revenue figure. How is MyParcel doing? They are about to open a franchise in Italy, I understood. But the underlying trend there in the case of Spring, we see a clear growth. How is MyParcel doing?

Yes. Well, overall, underlying for MyParcel, of course, well, they are progressing well also in their strategy. Of course, they are like what we see in the other e-commerce streams. Also noting, of course, the market developments or at least that is what they are also facing. So that on the MyParcel, yes.

And then my final question, you already referred to the Mail and what is necessary to make Mail mill yes, let's say, healthy again. Any progress in the discussions you have with SGM. SGM announced their intention to do an investigation on the back of complaints they had from the. Has there been any progress in -- can imagine that there's still a lot going on with economic affairs to change things. Are there any developments in that respect? .

No. Well, the ACM announced that investigation and the investigation started, and we are cooperating but no further developments there. It's too soon to tell.

Okay. And with these economic affairs, no news.

No, not on the ACM. What we can confirmed or didn't have any objections or comments on the D+2 and D+3 change. So that was confirmed and published this morning at them. So that is at least now formally done.

Thank you. There are currently no further questions. I will hand the call back for closing remarks.

Thanks for listening in. Thanks for your questions. If you have any more questions, please reach out. And for now, have a nice day.

Thank you. This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the PostNL Q4 Full Year 2025 Results Call. [Operator Instructions] And after presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions.

Now I would like to hand over the conference call to Ms. Inge Laudy Manager, investor Relations. Please go ahead, madam.

Thank you, operator, and welcome to you all in today's conference call. We have published our Q4 and Full Year '25 results and the annual report earlier this morning, and we'll explain the set of results to you in this analyst call. With me in the room are Pim Berendsen, our CEO; and Linde Jansen, our CFO. After that presentation, Pim and Linde will take your questions. Pim, over to you.

Thank you, Inge, and good morning to you all. I would like to start with a summary of the new strategy that we've presented to you on our Capital Markets Day last September. That's on Page 5. And at the top, you see our purpose, connected to deliver what drives us all forward. That is what holds everything together. Just below the purpose, you see our strategic intent. We grow our business, create sustainable value, lead through innovation and make impact that matters. Then moving from the cascade one step down again, you see the strategic objectives and ambitions of the 3 business segments.

For E-commerce, it's all about shifting from volume to value through differentiated approach and smarter network utilization. For platforms, capturing international growth with asset-light models and for Mail transforming towards a future-proof postal service. We'll make these changes and those ambitions through 10 strategic priorities, ranging from compliance and workforce to network efficiency and international growth.

And this should all lead to the required outcomes on 4 goals that we've set, being financial KPIs, Net Promoter Score, carbon efficiency and employee engagement. And for 2025, we've reached the objectives for all 4. Then if you look at the key takeaways for 2025, it's all about progress towards our Breakthrough 2028 ambitions that we shared with you in September too. So we're positive to be able to say that our financial and nonfinancial targets are achieved. We've reset the organizational structure and made changes in the teams. We've now reporting segments aligned with the strategy. Of course, we have secured the refinancing required to bring us to 2028, and we see early telltale that the targeted yield measures are contributing to performance and that momentum will further build into 2026.

Furthermore, crucial progress has been made in the political process towards future-proof mail service. Thursday, 2 weeks ago, in Parliament, the changes are approved to get us to a D+2 by mid-2026 and a D+3 delivery for Universal Service by July 2027 at quality levels that we now deem to be feasible. So far, there's no solution for the net cost during the transition period up to the point that we are beyond the D+3 delivery, and that's why we will continue with the legal proceedings on net costs.

Targeted yield measures have more than offset the organic cost increases in 2025. And overall, given performance and leverage based on dividend policy, we're able to propose a dividend per share of EUR 0.04 per share and to be proposed to the AGM in April. If we then zoom into the segments and the fourth quarter, in particular, we've seen at Parcels a very well-executed peak period underpinned by very good NPS scores, both on the consumer and on the sending customer side. Revenues up by 3.2% at flat volume development with a positive price/mix impact. And we see that the propositions that we're looking for in contract renewals are progressing as we've planned. In other words, the differentiating commercial approach is helping us to create a better value over volume, and that's what we obviously seek.

We've said that it will take some time to materialize fully, but we're on the trajectory of the path that we sketched for you when we've communicated our Capital Markets Day objectives. If we then look at Mail in the Netherlands in the fourth quarter, we've seen some exceptional volume in the last part of the year, driven by pension communication as part of the pension transition in the Netherlands and some special safety kit communication from the [indiscernible] and that has led to a very robust December performance that altogether with a very successful Christmas card campaign offset the year-to-date November negative result that at that point was close to EUR 35 million and changed it to a slight positive number of EUR 2 million at full year 2025.

Of course, the underlying trend of volume decline and organic cost increases is continuing. The cost savings, we have achieved what we expected to achieve. Of course, due to adjustments in the business model, the business mail is already moved to within 2 days delivery window, and that helped us save costs. There are no further options for future cost savings within the current regulatory framework, and that's why it's so important that we're now allowed to go to within 2 and later on within 3 days delivery for the universal service against reasonable quality levels later this year. Then I hand over to Linde for now. I'll be back later, and then Linde takes you through the more detailed financial performance of each segment.

Yes. Thank you, Pim. As mentioned already by Pim, the fourth quarter was a good quarter with our revenues up to EUR 973 million and normalized EBIT of EUR 79 million, which is 27% compared to the quarter last year. This means that we have delivered on our full year 2025 outlook for normalized EBIT of EUR 53 million, exactly in line with 2024. Free cash flow came in at minus EUR 25 million, also midpoint of our outlook.

Also, good to mention that normalized comprehensive income for the year was EUR 21 million, a base for the determination of the proposed dividend per share. Our adjusted debt is up to EUR 501 million. Not on this slide, but good to mention that the leverage ratio at year-end was 1.99x, properly financed so we can propose to the AGM the EUR 0.04 dividends per share, as mentioned.

We also delivered on the targets for the key nonfinancial KPIs and made good progress on further reducing on our environmental footprint. The 50% improvement in carbon efficiency and the share of emission-free last mile delivery increased to 33% from 28% in 2024. Looking at NPS, we maintained our average #1 position in relevant markets, an important achievement in a competitive marketplace. And also employee engagement was up compared to last year.

Let's move to the financial details of Parcels in the fourth quarter. Revenue amounted to EUR 691 million, which is 3.2% above last year, following volume development, price increases and mix effects. Overall, volumes were flat with a slow start of the quarter followed by increasing volumes in the peak period. Market share was slightly down as anticipated following our yield measures. With that in mind, it's good to see that the total price/mix impact was positive this quarter.

Of course, this is also visible in the average price per parcel, up by EUR 0.11, supported by targeted yield measures and regular price increases. Price increases have been implemented according to plan and were only slightly offset by negative mix effects. Furthermore, it's also positive that our cross-border activities continued the trend we have been seeing for several quarters with revenues at Spring up this quarter most strongly in our intra-European activities, a promising development as international expansion is one of our strategic initiatives. In this part of our business, we see a less favorable mix.

When looking at costs, it should not be a surprise that in this quarter we saw significant organic cost increases, which is mainly labor related. However, we also see EUR 14 million in cost savings in the fourth quarter, and these were delivered according to plan. To be more specific, these came from ongoing adaptive measures like, for example, rationalization of services because we stopped parcel delivery on Sunday.

Next to that, our flexible operational setup proved our agility and made us achieve additional efficiency improvements in our network, so in depots, supply chain and transport to mitigate the adverse mix effects. In Spring, planned investments to capture intra-European growth put pressure on the margin. This brings us to the Parcels bridge, which shows the reconciliation of the EBIT from EUR 36 million in the fourth quarter last year to EUR 41 million in this year. Asset volumes were flat. So the revenue growth in the volume-related part of this segment is fully attributable to price and mix. To be more precise, EUR 15 million from pricing and yields, offset by only EUR 4 million due to a less favorable product and customer mix.

Organic cost increases amounted to EUR 14 million following wage increases according to PostNL and sector collective labor agreements and indexation for delivery partners. Other costs were EUR 8 million better, mainly as a result of the combination of cost savings and additional efficiency improvements in depots, supply chain and transport, partly offset by higher costs related to investments in reduction of physical workforce and sustainability.

In other results, I want to highlight that this is mainly applicable to Spring, where we see revenue growth being offset by mix effects. Furthermore, we again invested in international expansion, one of our strategic initiatives of the intra-European activities in Spring. We also continue to focus on further growth in Belgium.

Let's move over to the results of our segment, Mail, in the Netherlands. Revenue amounted to EUR 406 million, which is EUR 18 million above last year's quarter. Volume development was almost flat, supported by election mail and other partly nonrecurring non-24-hour mail from, for example, the pension funds and governments, which Pim just mentioned. I would also like to mention the successful campaign for our December stamps and, at the same time, the underlying trend of structural volume decline continues.

Also, part of revenue are price increases, and these were partly offset by an unfavorable shift in mix. Obviously, the share of non-24-hour business within the total of Mail volume increased due to the extra volumes from government and pension funds. And the shift of business mail to D+2 delivery is also part of the explanation.

Looking at costs. Labor costs were up following the CLA for PostNL and the mail deliverers. When looking at illness rates, we see again an improvement compared to previous year. These cost increases were mitigated by cost savings of EUR 10 million according to plan, coming from further adjustments in our current business model such as the transition of business mail towards a standard service framework of delivery within 2 days.

Altogether, this resulted in normalized EBIT of EUR 45 million. The robust December performance more than offset a deeply negative year-to-date November results. Remember that the year-to-date Q3 normalized EBIT was minus EUR 43 million, and the last quarter brought us at the full year result of just EUR 2 million, which equals a margin of 0.2%.

The elements of Mail in the Netherlands I just discussed are reflected in the EBIT bridge on this slide. As said, almost flat volumes, also, of course, reflected in flat volume-dependent costs. Price increase partly offsets the less favorable mix, as just explained. Organic cost increases of EUR 10 million were due to wage increases and other inflationary pressures. And then we have the cost savings of EUR 10 million and a bit lower labor costs related to sick leave. They were more than offset by lower bilateral results, staff-related costs and one-off cost to prepare for the future Mail structure. We will tell a bit more on that in a minute.

Then over to our free cash flow. Free cash flow was EUR 73 million in the fourth quarter, down compared to Q4 2025, while normalized EBIT was up. This is mainly explained by working capital development where, as expected, we see phasing with the previous year. Furthermore, interest paid is up following the changes in our debt structure. Thanks to well-executed cash and balance sheet management, full year free cash flow came in, in line with our outlook.

This altogether winds up the 2025 financials. I now hand back to Pim for our strategic story going forward.

Thank you, Linde. By now, we're on Slide 16. And this slide brings together the strategic objectives of each of our business segments as well as the enablers that support them. So for E-commerce, the ambition is to shift from volume to value through a differentiated approach and smart network utilization; for platforms to capture international growth through asset-light models; and for Mail to transform towards a future-proof postal service.

Around them are enablers that cut across the businesses, for instance, ESG, where we take care of our people, our environment and our society; data and tech to simplify and to accelerate by embracing data and AI; and innovation beyond delivery, where we explore new opportunities by stretching our core businesses. Together, this framework connects our ambitions to the actions that will deliver Breakthrough 2028 results.

If we then look at the E-commerce story, then you all know it's all about moving from volume to value. And we do that through 4 levers on our margin engine. First, we are strengthening our commercial engine. That means a more differentiated customer approach, tiered propositions and moving slightly away from next day only to also best day delivery options to smooth flows and to reduce costs. That doesn't take huge changes, but just gradual moving a bit of the volume towards best day helps to create better network utilization and, through leverage, creates material impact on margin.

Secondly, we aim to be distinctive where it matters most, giving consumers control, improving the critical I receive journeys and deploying digital tools to enhance their experience. And that's also why we're very happy about the fact that Net Promoter Scores on the consumer side have been increased also during the peak period last year.

Thirdly, we stay comparative on cost. Smarter depot operations, better alignment of resources and targeted investments in technology will help us to run the network even more efficiently and will reduce the cost price per item, which strengthens our competitive position as well.

And finally, we do take a step-up in steering and teaming, active revenue capacity management in new departments that we've introduced, supported by a strong organizational foundation, for which we've made changes in the beginning of this year, gives us even better control about customer value, yields and margins. And this is how we build a more balanced, more profitable, more value-enhancing e-commerce business.

If we then look at the actions that we've planned for 2026. It's really about monetizing capacity by optimizing customer and product mix better. Contract renewals that have been agreed bring a better balance between margin and volume already. Focus on cost control, so we plan to take out EUR 40 million to EUR 50 million of costs in the e-commerce space, partially because of the benefit from implementation of our out-of-home strategy, but also lean on more efficient operating model in our first and middle-mile operations.

Further optimization and digitalization, robotics and planning optimization tools helped by AI developments will help realize those savings as part of a program that we've launched to reduce the cost price per item. And as said, that will help to strengthen our competitive position even more. Clearly, to be distinctive where it matters, we just discussed why that's so important.

Then maybe to our assumptions for 2026. We do assume continuous growth of Dutch households consumption of around 2.2% to 2.4%. And with an online penetration of 0.5% increase, we still assume because of our push for value, that we'll continue to lose a little bit of market share. And that's why, at the end of the day, we expect volume growth to be 1% to 3% for 2026.

If we then move over to platforms. And Linde already talked about the investments that we are making there impacting the 2025 results and will continue to impact 2026 results too. There, we invest in the acceleration of international flows, and the asset-light models will allow us to expand routes quickly and capture new customer portfolios without heavy investments. Secondly, we strengthened our Dutch domestic leadership by keeping export flows and international volume in PostNL's network and by improving customer stickiness and to protect our own market.

Thirdly, we build a smarter, leaner network, a shared platform infrastructure, strong partner models, and automation through APIs drive efficiency and scalability in that platform space. In short, these asset models give us the flexibility, the option to scale and to gradually, over time, improve profitability on the back of that revenue growth that we seek.

If we then look at the actions for platforms in 2026, then it's really about empowering that European sales function. We have been investing in expanding that sales function, including the intelligence tools that it needs. We are growing the network. So we've added many different trade lanes and line haul expansion to the European business. And we're gradually filling that network capacity that will, over time, then will result in an increase in marginality on the platform side of things.

Of course, we have for quite a while already a very strong market position in Hong Kong, China. And we're expanding that base to also other areas within Asia that can also fuel the import flows to Europe.

If we then go to the Mail side. There's, of course, been very relevant developments over the last couple of weeks. So the adjustments of the universal service are approved by the House of Representatives 2 weeks ago, which is a crucial step towards future-proof postal service. So we'll go to a within 2 days delivery model for the USO for July 2026 and to within 3 days for July 2027, which is a deviation from the trajectory that we've painted on the Capital Markets Day because there only D+3 was expected to be there for January 1, 2028.

The quality requirements have also come down to 90% for 2026, D+2 and 92% for a within 3-day delivery. So far, there's no solution yet for the remaining substantial net costs on universal service. And that's also why we'll continue with the legal steps to go after that net cost compensation. Because as we estimated in the beginning of the year, we did expect roughly EUR 30 million of net cost related to the USO obligations. I think it will be slightly more than EUR 30 million.

And of course, also in '26 and '27, we will still be looking at material net costs that impact the profitability of the company that does impact the competitiveness of the group and limits our ability to invest in innovation, in new propositions, in labor conditions and labor circumstances. And that's why we'll continue to push for compensation or to be relieved from the obligations that drive those net costs.

What you cannot underestimate is the impact these changes will have on our organization. And that's why we're really committed and busy with the preparation of those changes for July, which basically means that on the delivery and preparation side, a lot of the schedules need to change. All the delivery routes will be redefined. And we're taking those changes step by step. That also means that we'll deliver the letterbox parcels that are required to be delivered next day through the e-commerce infrastructure. That also impacts Mail's result in 2026 quite significantly, but also impacts the Parcels bridge. And Linde will talk you through those elements a little bit later on.

So yes, I think great progress on Mail for 2025. But still a lot to do to make it happen operationally and a lot to continue to discuss with the new Minister of Economic Affairs as to how we want to organize mail delivery in the Netherlands going forward and also in relation to the question, who should pick up the bill for the net costs related to the universal service obligation.

Slide 22 basically paints the picture as to why we believe that, over time, we're able to manage the Mail business within a bandwidth of results to give you a bit of predictability as to how we can do this. These lines are, with the exception of 2025, the lines that we've presented also at Capital Markets Day. So later on, you'll see that the 2026 expectations for Mail will not be as low as the orange line, but it indicates roughly the phasing of those steps over time. And the blue line also includes potential upsides on financial contribution that, of course, so far, we've not been taking into account in our outlook.

But it's still reinforcing the message that we expect to be able to manage the Mail business with those changes within this bandwidth of results. And of course, there are some sensitivities around it that relate to the volume decline expectations and the timeliness of the execution of the steps that we plan to make in this road map. That is the Mail side of things.

Then if we go to our enablers. The first one is ESG. That is clearly not a separate track but a foundation for everything we do, taking care of our people, environment and society. Further reductions of emissions to improve our footprint is high on our agenda. That's also why we expand our own fleet of electric vans by 50% last year, and we'll continue to stimulate delivery partners to switch to electric vans as well. As shared, emission-free kilometers was up and is now at 33%. With that, we also had a positive impact on urban liveability.

On the right-hand side, you see our efforts to invest in engaged and healthy workforce because that will also drive employee engagement, will also drive Net Promoter Scores. We've introduced programs to reduce the absenteeism and invested quite materially in innovation to reduce the physical workload in our depots.

And the examples that you see there is the implementation of tilters to reduce manual lifting in the depots, the use of smart electronic tugs for internal transport of roll cages, but also adjusted customer requirements for how they fill the roll cages before they're dropped off at our depots. So serious investments are being undertaken to improve the workplace safety to unlock cost efficiency and to create a better environment for our staff.

Then if we talk to the other enablers, data tech and innovation beyond delivery. We're simplifying and accelerating by embracing data and AI, both in our meta channel contact strategies of our digital and human interactions, but as well on our supply chain and commercial engines, where we do apply AI as much as we can to drive NPS and improve efficiency and will contribute to the execution of our strategy.

We keep on exploring new opportunities by stretching our core and are investigating the development of charging hubs for truck transport, where we aim to develop charging hubs initially for our own trucks, but over time, also make these hubs accessible for other carriers.

Then let's go to the financial paragraph of 2026 and look at the outlook that we've set for this year. Linde, back to you.

Yes. Thank you, Pim. So then we are on Slide 26, and let me start with a recap of our capital allocation. First and foremost, we will invest in our organic growth, including investments in our network, our out-of-home ambition and IT capabilities.

Next, we will invest in inorganic growth opportunities in line with our strategic criteria. The focus for this will be on partnerships in our growth areas rather than acquisitions to limit the size of the required capital. The remaining cash flow should be sufficient to pay dividend in line with our business performance and dividend policy and to optimize our financing structure.

For 2025, as said, we will propose a dividend of EUR 0.04 per share to the AGM -- at the AGM to be held in April. To be clear, this is based on the old dividend policy that was applicable for book year 2025. The payout ratio is 80% of normalized comprehensive income. As communicated during the Capital Markets Day in September 2025, as of 2026, we will slightly adjust this policy. Dividends will be based on normalized profit instead of normalized comprehensive income, and we will no longer have interim dividend. So the full dividend is to be paid in one payment in May.

Let's move to Slide 27. This slide is in the deck to help you to reconcile the 2025 actuals to the new reporting structure that is aligned with this new strategy and as explained by Pim. As of January 1, 2026, we will report along the segments E-commerce, Platforms and Mail. In short, in E-commerce, we will report all parcel activities in, from and to the Netherlands and Belgium, including internal revenue from platforms and a transfer from PostNL Other being the digital activities. Platform comprises Spring and MyParcel and other international activities. Mail does not need further explanation.

Let's have a look forward to our full year expectations for 2026, which will be the year of inflection in the execution of our strategy. I will start with sharing our outlook for the main financial KPIs and will then dive a bit deeper to the drivers and assume development per segment. For normalized EBIT, our outlook is between EUR 40 million and EUR 70 million, and we expect that to translate into a free cash flow of between 0 and minus EUR 30 million. That outlook is based on an expected total revenue growth of between 5% and 7%. And I will come back to that on the next slide.

In 2026, we continue to invest in our strategic focus areas with CapEx expected to be up to around EUR 125 million while lease payments will be at the same level as in 2025. Organic cost increases remain high. We expect around EUR 140 million cost increases, mainly labor-related, following wage inflation and other inflationary pressure. Price increase will be more than sufficient to mitigate this. And our focus will continue to be on strong cost control and further efficiency improvements, building on our proven efforts to reduce costs.

Please note that the outlook of 2026 assumes limited impact from changes in treatment of de minimis thresholds in the EU and U.S. or in related customs handling and clearance fee structures. The scope and timing could evolve during the year and could impact performance.

The graph on the left side indicates the assumed development of normalized EBIT per segment, but let me explain a bit more on that. This Slide 29 shows the assumptions for the drivers of the expected 5% to 7% revenue growth. At the segment E-commerce, revenue will grow on the back of 1% to 3% volume growth compared to the number of parcels as shown in the segment Parcels for full year 2025, which is EUR 376 million.

As targeted yield measures will come into effect gradually, these will also contribute to revenue growth. And then in the E-commerce segment, you see the impact of the transfer of letterbox parcels of D+1 to the network of e-commerce. Pim already touched on this. And on the next slide, I will show you more background. Good to keep in mind that this letterbox parcel revenue in E-commerce is internal revenue and, as such, will be eliminated at group level.

Looking at Platforms. For Platforms, it's expected to show double-digit revenue, accelerating its speed of growth following our strategic initiatives to expand our intra-European growth at Spring and MyParcel and growth from the Asian platforms. For Mail, the main drivers are the continuation of the structural decline in volumes between 8% and 10% assumed for 2026 and price increases. Altogether, that brings us to the assumed revenue growth of between 5% and 7%.

As said, let me provide a bit more background on the letterbox parcels. So as of mid-2026, we will start delivering the letterbox parcels D+1 through our e-commerce network, so no longer through the Mail network. As Pim explained, this is a necessary step to enable the transition to D+3 for all mail in 2027 and results in a step-up in costs for 2026, in line with the road map towards a future-proof postal service. Apart from the extensive impact on processes and people, it will also bring some financial consequences for segment reporting.

These are summarized on this slide to help you understand the development in performance. Let me start with E-commerce. The transfer will bring between 50 million and 60 million items in the network, so around 30 million in 2026. As shown on the previous slide, this adds revenue for the E-commerce segment. Again, this is internal revenue. Good to understand that the price of letterbox parcels is below the current average price per parcel, which is visible in the price/mix development in the e-commerce performance.

Extra volumes, of course, bring extra volume-dependent costs and, for 2026, limited one-off transition costs. Overall, the impact from the transfer on normalized EBIT for e-commerce is limited and then expected to become margin accretive as of 2027.

Then moving to the Mail side. At Mail, you see some additional revenue as delivery of the letterbox parcels via the E-commerce network comes with better service and quality. It also brings cost savings as we can adjust the prices in Mail. Around EUR 20 million of the cost savings for 2026 relates to the transfer. On the other side, the transfer comes with additional cost as, in the end, the infrastructure of e-commerce is more expensive than the Mail structure. Combined, this leads for the Mail segment an expected net negative impact of around EUR 12 million, fully in line with the road map towards a future-proof postal service.

Let's move over to the e-commerce bridge. On this slide, you see the main drivers and its contribution to the assumed step-up in e-commerce performance in 2026, a step-up in revenue from a 1% to 3% underlying volume growth and the impact from the transfer of letterbox parcels. For price/mix, I want to emphasize that regular price increases and the targeted yield measures are more than offsetting organic cost increases. And yes, in the bridge, we will see negative mix effects, but these are almost fully related to the transfer of letterbox parcels.

As explained on the previous slide, the price for letterbox parcels is below the average price for parcel, and that is driving the majority of the negative mix effect. Remaining mix effects within and between channels and countries is expected to be in line with Q4 2025 performance. Then you see indicatively an increase in volume-dependent costs as we have more volume and organic cost increases. We expect to achieve the EUR 40 million to EUR 50 million in cost savings, investments in our out-of-home sustainability and reduction of physical workload and the earlier mentioned one-off costs to enable the transfer of letterbox parcels to e-commerce.

Then moving on to Platforms. The bridge clearly shows the impact from the assumed double-digit revenue growth, predominantly attributable to the expansion of activities. Positive pricing sufficient to cover organic cost increases, though offset by negative mix effects coming from a less favorable mix of destination and weight. Again, additional volumes come with additional costs, and that's also shown in the volume-dependent costs. And of course, specifically in this asset-light segment, on the cost side, you see the impact of investments in international expansion, for example, due to a step-up in costs related to sales and marketing and IT. So really investing in future growth.

And then moving over to the last segment, the Mail segment. The impact from organic cost increases and an assumed 8% to 10% volume decline is mitigated by price increases and a favorable mix effect and the decline in volume-dependent costs. And then we expect to achieve EUR 30 million to EUR 40 million in cost savings, largely related to the transfer of letterbox parcels to e-commerce, offset by higher costs as explained and cost increase mainly related to preparations for the future-proof postal networks.

Please take in mind that this bridge represents the full segment Mail, which is more than the USO. As mentioned by Pim, without any doubt, also in 2026, there will be net cost for the USO. In that regard, let me reiterate that we will continue our legal proceedings.

That being said, let me hand over back to Pim to close the presentation with the concluding.

Thank you, Linde. Well, if we look at 2026, that will be the year in which we expect to reach the inflection point in the execution of our strategy towards our Breakthrough 2028 ambitions. The outlook that we've said of normalized EBIT between EUR 40 million and EUR 70 million and free cash flow between 0 and minus EUR 30 million is in line with the trajectory that we need to get to the 2028 results.

For E-commerce, we'll focus on a continued and disciplined path towards sustainable value creation. At Platforms, we'll focus at further investments to capture and to facilitate to accelerate international growth. And in Mail, it will be a very heavy transitional year in which we need to make the changes for a D+2 USO delivery network and to continue to work on the future-proof postal network that we need as well.

So all in all, satisfied with the 2025 results, particularly in the fourth quarter. We're on track towards our Breakthrough 2028 ambitions. And we're connected to deliver what drives us all forward.

So thank you for now, and let's open up for questions.

Operator, could you please explain the procedure to ask questions, please.

[Operator Instructions] We will take our first question. Your question comes from Michiel Declercq from KBCS.

My first question would be on Mail, where you reported very nice results. Could you maybe remind me on the fourth quarter what the impact was of the nonrecurring elements? And then if I adjust for that, I would assume that the Mail volumes, they were also quite strong. You mentioned the positive impact from the holiday cards. Is that what has mainly been driving the strong margin?

And then also looking a bit into 2026, the revenue bridge that you show on Slide 29. You basically expect the full volume to be offset by price increases and mix effect. Can you maybe elaborate a bit more on this, I mean, the price increases for USO have been announced? But yes, maybe diving a bit deeper into these mix effects as well. Is that maybe the absence of the government and the election mail? So that would be my first question.

And then secondly -- second, on the CapEx, you guide for EUR 125 million this year, which is a bit lower than what you shared during the Capital Markets Day. Is this mainly a timing effect? Or is this the new run rate also for 2027? Or how should we look at this?

Yes. Thanks, Michiel, for your questions. Let me start with the first question on the volume development of Mail in the last quarter. Yes. So indeed, the volume in the last quarter has been impacted or positively impacted by those nonrecurring volumes coming from governmental side. So the pension funds, which had a special communication on changes in pension funds, but also the emergency kit, which was distributed in the last quarter. And of course, you had the election mail. Those -- that volume is not recurring because we will not have that every year.

And looking at the campaign, the campaign for the Christmas stamps, which this year we did together with the Efteling cooperation and that was successfully perceived by the consumers as such, that was contributing to the positive volume development as well. Then the revenue bridge mix effect, you were referring to the revenue bridge you were referring to the Mail specifically, right?

Yes. Yes, correct, the Mail only.

Yes. What you see there is that the underlying volume trend, which we actually also have this year, the 8% to 10%, that is on the volume side. And on the other side, you will see also that from a price increases point of view, we will increase our prices also to ensure that we outweigh or more than outweigh our organic cost increases. And that is contributing to the overall performance in the revenue side.

Then on your last question on CapEx of EUR 125 million. Well, I'm not saying is it timing, yes or no. I think over time, yes, we will expand our CapEx to further invest in the growth areas. For now, we have targeted at EUR 125 million. It's mostly important that we continue our trajectory on the growth initiatives, which is obviously out-of-home, but also investments in ESG and in our IT capabilities. And that is with EUR 125 million on trajectory towards our 2028 ambition as well.

One addition, Michiel, from my side, just to clarify a point. In the volume development of the fourth quarter, where kind of the total volumes for Mail were roughly flat, you still have double-digit volume decline in single items and Christmas cards compared to last year, but then made up by slightly more bulk Mail volume than the same quarter last year, driven by the elements that Linde just explained.

Okay. That's clear. If I could maybe ask a small follow-up about the margins in Mail in the fourth quarter. Is it possible to quantify roughly what the EBIT impact was of these nonrecurring items? I know it's low margin, but is it -- can you give us some degree of what the margin impact was from this?

Not per line item. What I've indicated in my story is that as of -- well, you know the year-to-date performance at the end of Q3, I've kind of given you a marker where we were at the end of [ P 11 ] being still significantly down roughly around the EUR 35 million loss, and it turned into a EUR 2 million positive for the full year. So then you have the contribution of the combination of the additional volume in December as well as the contribution of the Christmas card campaign that has, let's say, in those last weeks of the year, turned a significant loss into a slightly positive profit for the entire year.

Your next question comes from the line of Frank Claassen from Degroof Petercam.

Two questions, please. First of all, on your growth assumption for the parcels or e-commerce, roughly 1% to 3% for '26. Could you roughly indicate how much you think it will be from the domestic side and how much from international? So will international still be growing much faster in your assumption? That's my first question.

And then secondly, you're targeting quite a few cost savings in '26. Do you also expect to see restructuring charges related to these cost savings?

Yes. Thanks, Frank. Regarding your first questions on the 1% to 3%, no, we cannot comment on the specific division between domestic versus international. What is important that we will -- that this growth is, of course, continued and based on our targeted yield measures and change from volume to value strategy. So as said, the pattern which we were on for 2025 is also what we will continue for 2026. Though, of course, for the international growth, there, we had a different base to grow from.

On the cost savings side and the potential redundancies, what you're referring to, no, this is really a cost savings program where we want to significantly reduce the cost price per parcel. We do not, at forehand, have predefined or planned layoffs. It's really an integral part to make sure that the commercial initiatives, the elements we take into commercial initiatives, we also derisk on the side on the competitiveness of our cost price per parcel so that we ensure that on both angles, we steer for the next.

[Operator Instructions] Your next question comes from the line of Marco Limite from Barclays.

I've got three questions. So the first one is on the recent news flow we have heard last week on Sandd, where again, ACM looks to be -- well, the court seems to be against the Sandd acquisition. So yes, if you could clarify what's your view there, what's happening? It feels like, yes, quite a few years have passed now.

Second question is on your Slide 31, where you are showing the expected margin evolution throughout the years until 2028. And I mean, in 2027, according to your chart, we should expect a big step-up in margins. In my view, looks a bit -- the step-up in '27 looks a bit higher compared to what you showed the CMD in September. So can you just remind us what is going to drive this fairly big jump in margins in '27 in the E-commerce division?

And then maybe my third question, just a clarification on the letterbox parcels slide, so Slide 30. Just a clarification there. So you're saying that in '26, you don't expect any impact on your E-commerce EBIT. But then in Mail, you're saying minus EUR 12 million. So can you just confirm that this is going to be net negative at group level? -- between Mail and E-commerce? Or I'm getting that wrong? And if you could also clarify, you're mentioning EUR 50 million to EUR 60 million extra volumes on a full run rate. Can you quantify that also in terms of revenues? So it's easier for us to model that?

Thank you, Marco. I'll take the first and third question and leave the second one for Linde to clarify. I think you're referring on point one to the conclusion of what the -- say we felt about the acquisition of Sandd. Clearly, our view there is that we've done that acquisition on the back of a permit that was given. And since that time, we've adhered to the conditions of that permit. So we really believe there's no legal obligation nor a necessity at the level of PostNL to mitigate anything here. So that is our position. Of course, we've seen that ACM plans or intends to start an investigation. We're uncertain about the scope, the approach or the legal grounds for that investigation. So we'll just wait and see there.

The more general point that we make there is that over the last couple of years, there have been numerous investigations and research done also by external parties on how the mail market should develop. All of those led to the same conclusion being it's a market in structural decline and the current set of regulatory constraints are not fit for purpose anymore. So we'll wait and see, but I don't expect material outcome from those elements. And as I said, it's now 6 years, 7 years after the integration of Sandd that cannot be revoked, although we continue to adhere to the conditions of the permit. So that is point one.

And three, I think there's a couple of elements to your question. So if you talk about EUR 50 million to EUR 60 million, that's a full year number, not a half year number because we only migrate those parcels, letterbox parcels halfway through the year. And yes, net for the group, this is a negative. Linde said that it will not have a material impact within the E-commerce space, but it will have an impact of a couple of million negative for 2026 within E-commerce being a function of the transition cost, the implementation cost to make this work and will be accretive as of 2027.

And within Mail, we indeed expect a net of minus EUR 12 million. So in excess of the minus EUR 12 million, you've got a couple of million more that makes it the net consequence of this change in 2026. And then you could argue why doing this, in the first place with this negative impact on 2026. And that's because it's necessary to be able to make the move towards delivery within 3 days to take out the letterbox parcels within the mail network. So it's a fundamental step that we have to take to be able to make the changes halfway 2027 to go to a D+3 model.

Linde, can you take the second question of Marco?

Yes. Well, as you refer to the Slide 31 and your question on the margin. So actually, the 2026 margin development and also towards 2027 margin development is in line with what we have said during the Capital Markets Day, also starting with current year with our 2025 story year. We will see a step-up in margin versus 2025 performance, and that further increases over time to 2027. And in that sense, it's not different from the story which we explained during the Capital Markets Day.

But as also explained by Pim, we -- clearly the plan for 2025 and 2026, you see now also investments being made or, for instance, this step-up or change of the letterbox parcels. Those elements are all contributing and ensuring future growth, and that is why you see those effects as expected in 2025 and 2026, not only in E-commerce, but also in Mail, and that is on the trajectory towards our ambition of 2028.

Okay. And if you could help us quantifying the revenues shipped from Mail into Parcels coming from...

No, we can't give you that specification.

[Operator Instructions] We will take our next question, and the question comes from the line of Henk Slotboom from The Idea.

I've got three questions equally divided on the Mail, E-commerce and on Platforms. First one is an easy one. On your guidance with regard to mail volumes, 8% to 10% expected drop in volumes in this year. It seems a little bit conservative in my view. If I look at the first 3 quarters of this year, it was minus 6.9%, minus 8.3%, minus 5.0%. And then in the last quarter, there was, of course, the elections. We had the government bill, the emergency package, which is maybe 8 million or so, the number of households in the Netherlands. And the pensions reform is still taking place. So I expect that you will have extra mailings on pensions again by the end of this year. As far as the election is concerned, we have municipal elections in the first quarter. So there's a bit of a timing difference. What exactly makes you so, call it, conservative when it comes to Mail volumes?

Do you want to take them one by one, Henk, or do you want to share your other questions already?

No, no. Can we do it one by one?

Yes, that's fine. That's fine. Look, here, we've just taken the longer-term view that we've consistently seen in the market. Those volume expectations are also clearly a function of the conversations that we've had with our bigger customers, including [ SDN ] [Foreign Language] and the renewal of a few bigger customers as well. So on the back of those insights, we have set the expectation around that 8% to 10% mark. Well, let's wait and see. It could be on the conservative side. But that's based on the insights that we've gotten from the conversations around those bigger senders of mail, whilst renegotiating the terms for 2026.

Okay. And the second one is on Platforms. If I look at the pro forma divisional breakdown you gave at the Capital Markets Day, I see revenue of EUR 724 million in 2024 with a profit normalized EBIT of EUR 19 million, EUR 19 million. '25, we see a nice growth in the revenue line to EUR 786 million, but a steep fall in the normalized EBIT. Can you explain what exactly is this? It's an asset-light model. I understand that if you want to grow in this business, you need to invest upfront.

And if I look at the chart at Slide 32, your main goal in E-commerce is from volume to value. If I look at Platforms, then I see volume, but the volume in terms of price/mix is 0. How can I connect this? Is this the way to get into this market? Or maybe you can give some more -- shed some more light on this, please?

Yes. Of course. Clearly, we've set different strategic objectives for the business segments. So here, particularly in '25, '26, you see materially investments in the Platforms space in terms of building line haul capacity That is not fully utilized at day 1. It is expanding our sales capability throughout Europe. It's investing in some IT functionalities that will allow you to be competitive on that asset-light playing field. Those elements together -- also, if you were to look at 2026, really are already clarifying, I would say, around EUR 5 million to EUR 10 million of additional costs in the P&L that over time will turn into a contribution.

Second part is that, as said -- so also, if you look at the last quarter of 2025, we did have more volume than we originally expected in Europe, which caused us to take additional line haul carriers in. And we've decided to prioritize customer experience over short-term margins here, because we truly believe it will help our competitive position and will accelerate the flywheel going forward. Next to that, this is also the domain. where you will see the consequences of tariffs, particularly also from the U.S. trade lane side also in 2025. And also the uncertainty about the implications on what handling fees will do with consumer spending and choices consumers will make in 2026 is in part, an explanation also for the 2026 development because -- although Linde has said that we've taken into limited sensitivities that still millions and millions of lower profits based on the assumed scenarios that we've taken as the baseline for the handling fee situation. So those 3 elements explain the temporary step down in margin profile within Platforms.

Okay. And then my final question is that, well, bridges basically a little bit Platforms with the E-commerce division. We've seen quite a lot of noise from the Chinese CRO is active in -- on the intercontinental routes from China to, for example, the EU, they have a close cooperation with GOFO, which has become active in the Netherlands. Earlier last week, we saw reports about JD.com, which is becoming active in the last mile as well, and they do it in a slightly different way with [ Chinese ] [ Winkler.org ] guarantees and selling real products like Apple and that sort of things. How do you look at this development? Because it looks as if the Chinese logistics companies are piggybacking on what we see from the side of the Chinese platforms, which are coming to Europe. What's your view on that?

Well, as you know, I've said before, it was already quite a competitive marketplace to begin with. And we certainly see those new models and new businesses coming up. It's not that difficult to sort 100,000 parcels or sort a couple of million. But this is, of course, can you do this at a convenience level, at a quality level structurally throughout the year so that you can accommodate your clients to facilitate their growth ambitions. And I think there, our view on strategy is exactly the same as prior to those. We need to be best in the customer journeys that matter most. We need to be best in terms of Net Promoter Score, and we need to stick to a model where we strive to get value from volume and not volume per se.

And we see the right telltales there. We also see slight indications that other marketplaces are at least following suit in terms of trying to get value distribution more equally divided within the chain. And that's what we'll continue to push for. And we'll follow and monitor these parties closely. They have different operating models. They have so far not agreed any working conditions or collective labor agreements. So the question is also going to be how will they develop their business model to make it sustainable going forward. We talk with them, but we stick to the strategy that I've just explained.

Is labor a constraint for them? We heard you in the past mentioning before, there's a high churn amongst parcel deliveries and that sort of thing. It's difficult to get enough people there. Would it hypothetically mean an additional push towards out-of-home? And if so, could you benefit from it because you already have how many 1,200, 1,300 of these locations?

Yes, and accelerating. So that's kind of more the general development there where we truly believe that a bigger portion of parcels will go to out-of-home delivery towards lockers and still the vast majority will go at home. I will definitely expect those other players to also -- it will kind of -- the labor market is the labor market in the Netherlands. It stands anyway. Their model is much more focused on pay per item, where also different parties might have their own view on. I would say all regulatory elements that relate to safe working conditions apply to all in the Netherlands, so also to them.

So yes, there are some limitations to, I would say, their ability to scale this existing model. In the meantime, of course, they can make choices against price points that could lead to some volume going their way. But as I said, we will stick to the plan to create value from volume. And that's also still why we do expect a little bit of market share loss in 2026. We're happy with the progress that we're making on the rollout of our out-of-home network. We're accelerating there, not only in the number of locations, but also on the number of lockers per location. Of course, we truly believe that, that acceleration can help us on both sides to create competitive edge, to create best possible consumer experiences and will make the network more efficient.

Thank you. This concludes today's question-and-answer session. I will now hand back for closing remarks.

Thank you all for joining this call, and speak to you on April 28. Thanks.

Thank you.

Thank you all.

This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.

"

"

"

" KBC Securities NV, Research Division

" Barclays Bank PLC, Research Division

" ING Groep N.V., Research Division

"

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the PostNL Q3 2025 results. [Operator Instructions]. [Audio Gap]. 

[Break]

Good morning, and welcome to you all. We have published our Q3 '25 results earlier this morning. Unfortunately, CEO, Pim Berendsen, cannot join in this meeting due to personal circumstances today. So Linde will do the presentation. And after that, we will open up for Q&A.

With that, Linde, I hand over to you.

Thank you, Inge, and welcome to you all. Let me start with what highlights for this quarter.

Let me start with our Capital Markets Day, which we held on 17th of September. There, we presented our new strategy and transition program, Breakthrough 2028, with the related ambitions. We launched our new purpose, connected to deliver what drives us all forward. And we launched our new strategic intent, being to grow our business, create sustainable value, lead through innovation, and make impact that matters. This is based on 4 pillars: Growth, Value, Innovation, And Impact. 

I will repeat our 2028 ambitions on the next slide, but let me first share the key takeaways for this quarter. The Q3 results came in as anticipated and landed below last year's results. At Parcels, volumes were up 1%. And this quarter, again, volume growth from international customers outpaced domestic growth. The Mail volumes declined by almost 5%, mainly due to ongoing regular substitution, but this quarter was supported by the first batch of the election mail and some other one-off names. 

The decline in normalized EBIT at Mail led to a year-to-date normalized EBIT of minus EUR 43 million, and this reinforces the urgent need for adjustments in the postal regulation. Good to mention that our cost savings are well executed and bring savings according to plan, both at Parcels and for Mail in the Netherlands. 

Furthermore, additional efficiency improvements at Parcels contributed to our performance. And emission-free last-mile delivery increased to 33%, which is 5 percentage points better than last year. The last thing to mention on this slide is the reiteration of our outlook for 2025. 

Before moving on to more details on this Q3 performance, let's do a quick recap of our Breakthrough 2028 program. 

Our strategy aims at delivering sustainable returns for our shareholders and value for customers, employees, and society as a whole. We truly launched a strategic turning point with our new transformation program, Breakthrough 2028, that drives our financial ambition. 

A short summary of the strategic objectives of our 3 business segments, which we will create as of 2026:

First, E-commerce, where we will grow from volume to value through a differentiated approach and smart network utilization;

secondly, platforms, where we capture international growth through asset-light models;

and lastly, our Mail segment, where we want to transform to a future-proof postal service. 

Driven by the e-commerce market growth and our commercial initiatives, we aim to achieve GDP plus revenue growth, targeting at over EUR 4 billion in 2028 with a step-up in normalized EBIT to over EUR 175 million in 2028. 

A disciplined investment approach will drive incremental return on invested capital with an increase in Return On Invested Capital (ROIC) from 3.4% in 2024 towards our ambition of over 12% by 2028. And our approach towards dividends remains the same, in line with business performance, with 70% to 90% payout ratio while holding on to our aim to be properly financed.

That's about a short recap of our Breakthrough 2028 program. Let's now move to the strategic attention points for Mail and Parcels, before I will explain the detailed Q3 financial results. 

Let me start with Mail. Early October, a next step towards a viable and future-proof postal service in the Netherlands was proposed by the minister. The following adjustments for the USO were proposed:

D+2 at 90% quality as of 1 July 2026

D+3 at 92% quality as of July 2027

The consultation period closed last Friday. Without doubt, these adjustments are much appreciated. But at the same time, this proposal is still insufficient to cover the net cost. And therefore, it remains necessary to find a solution, therefore. And we have to keep in mind that the uncertainty in the timelines of the political process persists. 

In the coming weeks, we are expecting a decision on our appeal on the rejection of our request for financial contribution for 2025 and 2026, and also a reaction of the minister on our request for withdrawal of the USO designation. 

Together, these will determine our next steps towards a sustainable future of postal service on its path to reach the ambition as set out in our Breakthrough 2028 program. We will continue to make every possible effort to maintain reliable service and remain committed to accessible and financially viable postal service.

Then to Parcels.

As announced during the Capital Markets Day, that segment will be split in e-commerce and platforms as of 2026. And we will focus on the respective strategies as announced on the Capital Markets Day. The strategic initiatives already started and are progressing according to plan. 

In Q3, we see for Parcels a continuation of the trends as we have seen in the first half of this year. The price/mix effect was positive. Strong price increases were delivered according to plan. These are largely offset by less favorable mix effects that are more negative than we had anticipated. And that is mainly explained by the increased client concentration within our domestic volumes.

With regard to the targeted yield measures, it is important to emphasize that these will come into effect gradually and confirm the strategic validity of our focus on consumer value, while also resulting in a slight loss in market share as anticipated. 

What is also important to mention that to date, we have been able to mitigate the adverse development in mix effect by own actions. Our flexible operational setup proved our agility and enabled additional efficiency improvements in our network and supply chain that contributes to our performance, on top of the ongoing planned cost savings program.

Another focus area is our international expansion, especially in intra-European activities, where we are investing to capture future growth. In Q3, this resulted in the continuation of revenue growth at Spring, with some impact on the performance following our strategic investments. We are ready for the ramp-up in our operations for the peak season that is about to come.  Together with our customers, we are putting all efforts in striking the optimal balance between volume, value and capacity utilization.

Over to our key metrics. Let's start with the financial KPIs.

Revenue in the quarter amounted to EUR 762 million, which is slightly above last year. And we see normalized EBIT at minus EUR 21 million, in line with our expectations.

Looking at free cash flow, we see minus EUR 18 million in this quarter, bringing the year-to-date at EUR 98 million comparable with last year.

And normalized comprehensive income that includes, for example, tax effects amounted to EUR 23 million minus. I will discuss these results of Parcels and Mail in a bit more detail in a bit. 

Then the nonfinancial highlights for this quarter. The share of emission-free last mile delivery improved by 5 percentage points to 33%. We have recently started the rollout of over 40 electrical vans in our transport services, so in the first and middle mile.

Looking at NPS, we keep our average #1 position in relevant markets and see an improving NPS for the important ‘I receive journey’. And to evidence our innovative power, we have recently concluded successful experiments to explore how robotics can contribute to future parcel delivery, building on the knowledge and experience about the way we have implemented robotics in our sorting centers. 

Then our out-of-home strategy. That is continuing to gain momentum and the utilization rate being defined as the total amount of parcels, both to consumers and returns, during the week as a function of locker capacity is increasing and is now at 50%, while NPS scores for APL services remain high.

Let's move to the financial details of Parcels. Revenue amounted to EUR 581 million, which is EUR 6 million above last year, following volume growth, price increases and mix effects. Overall, our volumes grew by 1%. Volumes from international customers continued its growth and were up 5% compared to last year and domestic volumes were flat. 

Overall, market share was slightly down as anticipated following our yield measures. We do see further client concentration with increasing share of volume from large players, domestic as well as international, but also platforms and marketplaces. In this quarter, the top 20 accounted for 57% of volume.

With that in mind, it's good to see that the total price/mix impact was positive this quarter. Average price per parcel was up by $0.02, supported by targeted yield measures and regular price increases. Price increases have been implemented according to plan. But definitely, the mix effects are more negative than anticipated, driven by client concentration, predominantly within our domestic customer base. 

Furthermore, it is positive that our cross-border activities continued the trend. We have been seeing for several quarters with revenues at Spring up this quarter, most strongly in our intra-European activities, a promising development as international expansion is one of our strategic initiatives.

When looking at costs, it should not be a surprise that in this quarter, we saw a significant organic cost increase. This is mainly labor related. However, we also see EUR 9 million in cost savings in Q3, and they were delivered according to plan. To be more specific, they came from ongoing adaptive measures like, for example, rationalization of services because we stopped parcel delivery on Sunday. 

Next to that, our flexible operational setup proved our agility and made us achieve additional efficiency improvements in our network, so in depots, supply chain and transport, to mitigate the adverse mix effects.

In Spring, revenue growth was more than offset by the mix effects and the planned investments in international expansion. In the quarter, the financial impact from the implementation of U.S. trade barriers was limited, though we do expect some adverse effects in Q4. This brings us to the Parcels bridge, showing the reconciliation of the normalized EBIT from EUR 6 million in Q3 last year to EUR 4 million in Q3 this year. 

The volume growth contributed to our results, though was more than fully offset by the less favorable product customer mix effects, mainly within domestic. Organic cost increases amounted to EUR 70 million, following wage increases according to PostNL and sector collective labor agreements and indexation for delivery partners. As you can see, the impact from our price increases was EUR 30 million and came in according to plan. 

Other costs were EUR 11 million better, mainly as a result of the combination of cost savings and additional efficiency improvements in depots, supply chain, and transport, which we managed to deliver to mitigate the negative mix effects. In other results, I want to highlight that this is mainly applicable to Spring, where we see revenue growth being offset by mix effects. 

Furthermore, we again invested in international expansion, one of our strategic initiatives, which was approximately EUR 1 million this quarter for the expansion of the intra-European activities in Spring. Also good to note is that we continue to focus on further growth in Belgium. There, we also invested further. We invested in our distribution network, also amounting to EUR 1 million this quarter. 

Moving over to the results of our segment Mail in the Netherlands. There, the revenue amounted to EUR 289 million, exactly the same as last year. The volume decline of 5% this quarter was mainly related to substitution, a structural trend which you are seeing for a long time now but supported by the first batch of election mail and other one-off mailings. Furthermore, revenue was supported by 2 stamp price increases in January and in July of this year. 

Looking at costs, labor costs were up following the CLAs for PostNL and mail deliverers. However, when looking at sick leave rates, we see a first improvement compared to last year. These cost increases were mitigated by cost savings of EUR 10 million according to plan, coming from further adjustments in our current business model, such as the transition of business mail towards a standard service framework of delivery within 2 days. 

Altogether, this resulted in normalized EBIT of minus EUR 23 million and year-to-date minus EUR 43 million, as mentioned earlier, evidencing that the current business model for Mail is not sustainable. That brings me to the bridge of Mail in the Netherlands. 

Here, you see the elements of Mail I just discussed. Starting at the top, you see the stamp prices I referred to added EUR 9 million to revenue. The organic cost increases of EUR 10 million due to wage increases and other inflationary pressures are also visible. And finally, the cost savings of EUR 10 million and a bit lower labor costs related to sick leave were partly offset by lower bilateral results. 

Let's move over to the free cash flow. Free cash flow was minus EUR 18 million in this quarter compared to minus EUR 68 million in the same quarter last year and in line with our expectations. The delta versus last year is mainly explained by the working capital development coming from anticipated phasing effects and a nonrecurring tax settlement for prior years, including interest, which we paid in the third quarter of previous year. 

This brings us to the next slide, where you find our balance sheet and development of the adjusted net debt position. 

Of course, here you see the impact from the impairment in Q2 on our financial position, which in the end is impacting our equity. In the short and long-term debt, you see the EUR 100 million from the Schuldschein placed in June. So that was already the case in Q2, but obviously, you still see there. Movements in Q3 were limited. We ended the quarter at an adjusted net debt position of EUR 572 million. 

Recently, we launched a new bond with face value of EUR 300 million, a term of 5 years, and an annual coupon of 4%, and we tendered on the outstanding 0.625 percentage notes due September 26. EUR 195 million was accepted for repurchase. Please note that these related recordings and cash flows will materialize in Q4. 

We continue to manage our cash flow, balance sheet, and net position carefully following our aim to be properly financed. And as a reminder, we reclassified in Q2 part of cash and cash equivalents to short-term investments and adjusted comparatives. It has no impact on adjusted net debt or any other key metric.

Then over to the split of normalized EBIT over the quarters. 

As mentioned before, in 2025, normalized EBIT has to be earned in Q4 even more than in 2024. We are ready for our peak season. Please keep in mind that the impact of pricing will be larger in Q4 than in the other quarters, which also implies that in Q4, pricing will exceed the impact from organic cost increases. 

When looking at year-to-date results, overall results came in, in line with expectation. For the remainder of the year, for Parcels, you should take into account that announced yield measures are expected to come into effect gradually. And for Mail in the Netherlands, we will see the majority of the election mail coming in, in Q4. 

In the right graph, you can see the indicative phasing for the savings is not fully divided evenly over the year, with a larger part of savings expected in Q4. Obviously, that is related to timing of some of the underlying measures. Please note that some of the savings are a bit more tied to the absolute volumes, which also explains why the amount of savings is, as usual, expected to be slightly higher in Q4. 

Then over to the outlook. Of course, we have to acknowledge that the external environment remains challenging and volatile. And as said before, the pace of client concentration due to changing consumer behavior is difficult to predict. 

We reiterate our outlook for 2025. We expect normalized EBIT to be in line with 2024 performance. Free cash flow is expected to be negative as, for example, CapEx will be above the level of 2024, including around EUR 15 million cash outflows related to the strategic initiatives.

I repeat our intention to pay a dividend over 2025. We hold on to our aim to be properly financed, taking into consideration the anticipated improvement in the performance going forward and the progress towards a future-proof postal service. And good to add that normalized comprehensive income, which is, of course, the base for the amount of dividend is expected to follow a pattern that is more or less in line with 2023. In 2024, this includes some incidental positive effects.

Well, this concludes my explanation of the Q3 results, and I would now like to hand back to Inge.

Thank you, Linde, for your presentation. We will now open up for Q&A, and I ask you to limit your questions to two questions per person to set. So, operator, could you please explain the procedure for questions via the lines.

[Operator Instructions] Your first question comes from the line of Michiel Declercq from KBC Securities.

I have two, please. The first one would be on the impact of the trade barriers. You mentioned that you expect a bit more impact of that in Q4. Can you give some color on this? Or can, is there some quantification that you can give to this?

And the second question would be on Parcels on the price/mix effect. How I understood it at the beginning of the year was that the impact from the yield measures should gradually step in. Now if we look at the first three quarters, we actually see that the average pricing has actually come down. You're quite confident in the fourth quarter that you will see the biggest impact from the pricing.

Can you maybe elaborate a bit on why the impact here should be the largest? Is there a big difference compared to last year in terms of surcharges or maybe penalties to your customers if their predicted volumes don't match with the actual volumes? Just why the impact of the pricing should be that much higher in Q4? And if you can quantify what you're looking at?

Sure. And thanks, Michiel, for your questions. Let me take them one by one. Starting with trade barriers. Well, as I mentioned, so this quarter, we had limited impact. Of course, we do see more uncertainty and increasing volatility in the context of the U.S. trade policy and the responses from the counterparties. Well, it's not a surprise that tariff changes increase volatility and could slow down GDP growth, but could also generate opportunities on the other side, looking, for instance, at our knowledge with regard to customs.

But it's, of course, too soon to tell and to say what is the exact impact for Q4. But what we see is that from a materiality point of view, we do not expect the impact to be material. It will be limited also in Q4.

And to give some context on it, the direct exposure will be less than, is expected to be less than 1% of our revenue.

Then that's on the first question. Then on your second question with regards to pricing for Parcels. I would not say the pricing, what you mentioned, pricing has come down year-to-date. That's actually not the case. What we see is that we, that our pricing has passed as we anticipated. What you see overall is that with the yield measures which we are taking, so we say, and we see that, that's gradually coming in. Obviously, that depends also on when new contracts are being renewed. Not every contract has the same starting date or duration of the contract where we can change that.

But clearly, looking at the fourth quarter, also, of course, depending on volumes, when you see when you have made price increases, that obviously has a larger effect in the Q4 with peak periods. And there, wherever we have been introducing higher prices, yes, that obviously then also will have a higher effect, larger effect in Q4 than we have seen in the past quarters, because we have started with that gradually as of Q2.

So that is why we expect the Q4 price increases for PostNL to be larger than the organic cost increases for the year. I hope that provides an answer to both your questions.

Your next question comes from the line of Marco Limite from Barclays.

My first question is on the USO. Clearly, you set some scenarios back at the CMD in September, but we have had some more news in October. So, you're increasing prices by a lot as of 1st of Jan '26 on a year-over-year basis. And you're now implementing D+2 from early Jan '26. So my question to you is, do we think that this is enough for you to be breakeven in 2026?

Yes, to start with, first of all, on the start day of D+2, that's not the 1st of January 2026, but 1 July 2026. And on your question on the developments of the breakeven point, what we highlighted in during the Capital Markets Day is that we had, we would lead to breakeven as of 2028 because that is the point where we move to D+3.

At that time, the proposal from the minister was the 1st of January 2028 if a certain quality measure was achieved. That was the point of breakeven, so not 2026. So to respond to your question, we still will not be breakeven in 2026 for the Mail division given the developments, which we've had in the beginning of October because the main change over there was regarding the timing of the move to D+3, which was from 1st of January '28, he moved it more to the front 1 July 2027.

And secondly, there were, he proposed reliefs on the quality levels, which were in the earlier proposal 95%. However, it's good to mention that this are just proposals from the minister and really uncertainty around the time lines and the political process really persists. Well, as you know, we've had the recent elections last week. So as I said, these are just proposals from the minister and not yet law, so to say.

Okay. And what is the time line for a possible response on the cash compensation?

For the cash compensation, well, as you know, is that this proposal from the minister, it is a solution on the, it is a move or a first step towards a more future-proof situation. However, it does not serve or a solution yet for our net cost compensation. And as you may know or remember, we are, of course, still in proceedings on our financial contribution for 2025 and 2026. And there, we have appealed.

And yes, we are waiting for the outcome of that. And as I said, on top of that, in the proposal from the minister, we also are looking still for a solution of our net costs in general. Yes. That is now not in our control, but we are awaiting a response on that from our appeal as well as the next steps from the minister.

Okay. And second question very quickly. So, once you achieve breakeven first half '27, sorry, 1st July '27 or '28. But then I mean, if we think about more longer term, once you achieve the breakeven, you raised the bar to the breakeven situation, but then we are once again in a situation where we will be, we have cost inflation, let the volume decline. So on the long-term, let's say, over the next 10 years, once you move to D+3, how can you make sure that the USO is, let's say, forever breakeven at least?

Well, I think that is, of course, ongoing, what we are doing in Mail is trying to get an optimal network to ensure we are, well, let's say, organized as efficient as possible. I mean we don't have a glass ball, but we will make sure that we will do everything, put all our efforts to make it a future-proof situation. And as I said before, the, let's say, regulation or a solution for net costs is in the end, fundamental for a future viable situation. And that's why these first steps are welcome, but it's not yet enough to cover the full problem.

We will take our next question. Your next question comes from the line of Marc Zwartsenburg from ING.

First question is just a check because I think can you remind us on when the D+3 would kick in? Was it on the 1st of July '27? Or is it 1st of January '27?

Yes. The proposal from the minister, which was done in the beginning of October was for the 1st of July 2027. So that is six months earlier than in the previous proposal from the minister.

Yes. And then the quality has moved from 95% to 92%. That’s correct?

Yes, correct. Yes.

Then your Mail volumes, the minus 5% in Q3, there was a little bit of election in there. But as I remind from the earnings call, it was only a few days and not so much volumes. Most of it would be in Q4. So, if you exclude, let's say, the slight tailwind from the election in Q3, but what would have been then the underlying mail volume decline in Q3 would have been something like minus 5%, or minus 6% something like that?

5.6%, Marc.

Sorry, I didn't get that.

5.6%, it would have been. So, looking at the impact from election mail, you see that in quarter three, the impact was EUR 2 million of pieces for this quarter and the remainder of it for the fourth quarter.

And why is it only minus 5.6%? Is that just seasonality? Or is it just quite different from the normal trend of minus 8% to minus 10%?

Yes. I think it's indeed seasonality phasing that is playing part.

Okay. So in Q4, we should just assume the normalized, let's say, minus 8%, minus 10% and then add the support from the election. Is that correct? Or is there something seasonal there as well?

Yes, more or less, yes, that's correct.

Okay. And a question on the Amazon news last week for the investments in the Netherlands. Can you share your view on what they're saying because they want to tie their volumes in with what they have when this world wake ups. I know it's sizable client, but the other ones are bigger clients for you. So if volume shifts from your biggest client to your smaller clients and they also have a bit of a policy to do it themselves for a part. Can you show us your view what will be the impact on your Parcel volumes?

Well, obviously, we are closely monitoring these developments in the market. And well, at this point in time, it's too soon to give some color on the exact implications. But what we see more and more increasingly is we see online stores expanding and getting more and more, which is also happening now with Amazon or they are testing new services and investing in the e-commerce market. And that's obviously also what we are doing.

We continue to innovate in e-commerce and expanding our delivery preferences and really carefully look at consumer preferences, for instance, what we do with our out-of-home network. And with that, yes, okay, this is, of course, an event and a news which we closely monitor. And on the other side, it is still volume in the market, and we are just making sure that we continue our strategic intent and moves, which we mentioned during the Capital Markets Day to also reflect on any new or extended customers and platforms. But too soon to tell, too soon to give exact implications for that.

Maybe a bit more detail on Amazon, how big is that client for you at the moment in terms of volumes?

Well, I cannot give their exact color, but it's, as you say, not the largest client.

It's a top 5 client, I believe.

No, no, no. No.

Okay. Okay. And then my last question, if I may. You mentioned that there will be more positive impact from price in Q4. You have taken some additional efficiency measures. Is it correct that the efficiency measures, the extra, if I take the flow chart, the now from the original plan and then the bridge to the EUR 11 million, which is showing there as other cost as a positive then the EUR 2 million is then from the efficiency improvements? Is that the additional ones you mentioned? Is that the correct one?

Well, of course, it consists of pluses and minus. So that's not the, you cannot simply subtract the 11% from the 9% because there are, of course, pluses and minus in there. But what we see is that we have been or are able to put additional efficiency measures in our depots, transport.

And there, we see that to counter our mix effects. And that is also something which we will obviously continue for our fourth quarter, which will come on top of the ongoing adaptive measures.

Because if I compare the mix effect and the price effect, basically, they are a bit similar to what we've seen in Q2. Yes, shift yet feeding through while it was supposed to yield higher price and a better price/mix on balance, and that's not showing. So I'm just curious how you see that for Q4 because if it only, if the mix effect becomes bigger and the price becomes a little bit bigger, then you still have only a very mild positive price/mix effect, then you should have quite some additional efficiency improvements in Q4 to make your outlook. That's a bit where I'm puzzled. Yes.

No. Well, yes. Maybe to explain is, as said, so our price increases and yield measures, they are, we are delivering them according to plan. So that is basically what we have, let's say, in control. Looking at the mix effect, where you see that's really depending on consumer behavior, that effect, that mix effect is bigger than we, more negative than we anticipated and to counter that and mitigate that. And obviously, also inherently in yield measures is also part of moving to efficient operations. There, we see the counter effect where we can control or can mitigate that negative mix effect.

So yes, correct, the mix effect we anticipated is more. So larger clients getting faster big, so to say, than we had anticipated. And to counter that, we are ensuring that we put additional efficiency measures in place to mitigate that.

And to your point on the yield measures coming in, that's really gradually. It's not that from one day to the other, it all hits in. That takes a bit of time. And clearly, also this quarter is, let's say, a mild quarter in the sense that not a lot is happening. So that also is, therefore, the effect of yield measures is gradually coming in and then also, of course, more heavily as such in Q4.

[Operator Instructions] We will take our next question, and the question comes from the line of, please stand by, [Indiscernible]

I have a couple of questions. And I'm afraid the first one is a bit of a long one because I think it's important to understand the right context.

Last year, around this time last year, you warned us for the fact that Black Friday and Cyber Monday were so close to Sinterklaas . I think you've learned a lot from last year or you got to mention it, but I'm sure that this year it plays as well because Black Friday is on the 28th of November. Cyber Monday is on the 1st of December. Sinterklaas is on the 5th of December. With the improving consumer confidence data we've seen in recent months, this could really be a challenge.

How are you dealing with it? Do you see any prebuying that as we saw last year that people try to avoid Black Friday and Cyber Monday and that sort of thing. So my key question is, how do you manage it? And are you seeing prebuying already? For example, what can you share with us in relation to the volumes in Parcels you've seen in October?

Well, of course, on October, I cannot comment. That's too soon to tell. But on your question with the, let's say, the density of those Black Friday and Sinterklaas , et cetera. Well, I think that's not something new. We have been, we have had this for more years where we experienced this type of density in the holiday or in the peak season, sorry.

And so, what you see is that overall, those peaks get more peaky, so to say. So that is not just something for PostNL but is a general market trend. 

And we are in very close contact with our customers to ensure that we really optimize knowing that these days will be in the way these days will be; that we optimize volume, value and capacity utilization for this peak period, and also take into account, of course, our experiences, which we've had previous year to ensure that we streamline that peak period as good as we can. 

And clearly, we are very well on time with preparing for that and are really in close contact because with our customers because it's not just PostNL who needs to have that optimal utilization in the peak period, but it's actually for the whole ecosystem. So, all players in the ecosystem benefit from that. 

And that's why we are in close contact with them and also clearly communicate also to consumers around this. So yes, I can't say anything different that we are fully prepared for it and ready to have this organized in the most optimal way.

Have you seen any prebuying activity? Anything noteworthy that the trend was different at the end of the third quarter, for example?

No, no, I haven't seen that. No.

My second question is around international volumes. If I look at the first quarter of this year, then we saw plus 15%, second quarter, plus 10% year-on-year. Now we see plus 5% I can interpret it in 2 different ways. One is that indeed, the value over volume strategy is beginning to show. 

But I've also heard that new parties have come to the market like Cainiao and Dragonfly, which are especially aiming cheap Chinese volumes as long as well, they are a party in the market. One of your competitors even described them as gold diggers. What is happening there? What is it exactly? Are you indeed more cautious taking on more volume from China? Or is it the competitive environment that is changing?

Well, I would say, first of all, it's good to note that I think comparing by heart versus the growth of previous year, we already had a higher base. So, the first 2 quarters are not your starting point is different. Secondly, yes, our volume value strategy is clearly something which is what we aim for, and that is also for both domestic and international playing out there. So yes, that is, I think, the combination.

Okay. And then connected to that, there have been talks about implementing handling fees on Chinese Parcels. France was the first to announce that they were considering imposing a EUR 2 per item handling fee. And I recently read something that the Dutch are intending to do the same thing, if the French do it as of the 1st of January. Any news there? And how could it impact your business because [Schiphol] is one of the main hubs?

Yes. Well, let me start. It's too early to provide you with a concrete statement on the impact. But in general, PostNL is supportive of a level playing field in the different European countries. However, well, as you already mentioned, the 1st of January, such a potential additional tax would really result for us in an operational challenge. 

It's not feasible to implement this well, we are talking about already the busiest period in the year, and it's a very short time frame to implement such a system. And it also can be, of course, disruptive, I should say. So, like with the U.S. trade barriers, where also international postal traffic to the U.S. was on hold for a bit. So that's why we are in conversations with the government on that as well. 

And so, we would really plea, if it's being implemented for a careful implementation, so to involve all parties and with equal timing for all the EU countries and not to diversify between the different European countries. So that being said, too soon to give a statement on that, and we are actively in conversation to align on the best approach to make this work.

And then my final question, that's an easy one, sorry for making your life so hard, nothing personal. But on the APMs, I understood that you're currently at around 1,250 APMs, APLs, you call.

Yes, that's correct.

You were at around 1,100 at year-end last year. When I look back in the annual report, the intention was to increase that number by 500 to 600 a year. I can't imagine that during the peak period, all of a sudden, you're placing 400, 500 or so of the APLs. You have better things to do, I guess. 

What is the time path going forward? Because at the Capital Markets Day, also you highlighted the importance of APLs just the background of efficiency and that sort of things. Why am I not seeing a stronger pickup? The DHL, for example, is north of 2,000 already. It will be more and more difficult to find the right locations at the longer you wait.

Yes. Well, we indeed clearly have our ambition towards over 3,000 in 2028. And what we see is that it's also about the size of the lockers which you place. So, amount of lockers is one thing, but size, how many of these lockers are in one APL is we are placing bigger sizes than initially planned. 

And yes, we are progressing on that. And clearly, you have to deal as well with all the governmental regulations with that, and we are clearly on top of it to deliver towards our ambition for the long term. And as said, we see positive developments in the utilization of the lockers which we place and as said, which are bigger lockers than we initially placed. So yes, that is basically where we stand.

So basically, what you're saying is there will be a catch-up in the years ahead.

Yes. Yes.

Okay. Then we have one last one, a follow-up from Mark, if I'm correct. So that will be then the last one for today.

Yes, that's correct. 

A quick one. You issued a press release on the 5th of September that is asking the minister to withdraw the obligation of the USO. That's 2 days away that the 2 months are done. Should we expect some news flow in the next few days? Or can you help me with the timelines?

Well, indeed, correct, we asked for within 2 months. But obviously, that is not in our control. So yes, I would say expecting it this month, but depending obviously on the time lines on the side of the government, and that is not something we can control.

So could be any 6 months basically or without a date that's how.

Yes, exactly, exactly. they don't confirm by then and then you get the answer. That's not how it works.

And on the appeal of the cost compensation, is there.

It's the same. It's also depending on there. So yes, you are just basically depending on their side and also on the legal system. So yes.

Yes, I thought it was more like a court case thing that at some point, you need an outcome or is it not the case?

No, no, we haven't received any guidance on when we can expect it. No, not at this point in time.

Well, then we conclude our Q3 '25 results for now. Thank you all for participating and speak to you soon. Thank you all.

Good afternoon and a very warm welcome at PostNL's Capital Markets Day. It's great to see you with us in the room. And I also would like to say welcome to the ones who are joining us online.

Today is an important day for PostNL, and I'm really glad that we are all here. We are hosting this Capital Markets Day at a special location, our small parcel sorting center in Nieuwegein. This state-of-the-art sorting center was opened in 2021 and is fully robotized.

I am Inge Laudy, Manager, Investor Relations. And our speakers for today are at my left, Pim Berendsen, our CEO; and Linde Jansen, our CFO. Let me briefly walk you through the agenda for this afternoon. Pim will start by unveiling our new strategy. Then Pim and Linde together will talk you through the business segments. Along the way, you will be entertained by some small movies that bring our strategy to life. After that, Linde will take over for the financial ambition. And after a short break then, we will come back to you for a Q&A session.

And with that, I'd like to hand over to Pim to get started.

Thank you, Inge, and good afternoon to everyone. It's great to see you all here and we're excited to share with you our new strategy. And before we go into that new strategy, I'd like to start with a short movie that kind of captures who we are in a few minutes, how we make connections with the society and the world around us. And it will explain what drives us all forward. So let's go to the movie first.

[Presentation]

I think this movie really shows where we stand for, our heritage, our people, our ambition and how we want to move forward. It's just a movie that just gives you a bit of a feeling. But obviously, to steer a company, you need a bit more. You need a clear direction. And that's why we redefined our North Star, which is our lens in which we bring our strategy into focus and will guide us towards the future.

That is exactly what our North Star tries to capture. It's our compass that guides our choices and sets the direction for the years ahead. Now let's look at it. On the top, you see our purpose, connected to deliver what drives us all forward. And within the lens, the 4 strategic pillars are visible, growth, value, innovation and impact that together define our strategic intent.

We grow our business, create sustainable value, lead through innovation and make impact that matters. Each of those 4 pillars that we've made tangible. On growth, we want to accelerate growth beyond boundaries together with our customers. We unlock value by optimizing consumer experiences, margin and better utilization of assets.

We drive bold innovation with data technology and intelligence. And obviously, we want to create impact that matters for our people, for society and driving a positive transformation. That's built on our foundation, our strong heritage, our drive for change, serving the society and sustainability at our core. And of course, our values, connecting personal, resourceful and dedicated play an important role here.

For us, today is really a mark of a new chapter. For decades, we have been a trusted company, connecting people, businesses and society. That foundation remains strong, but what is different now is the energy and the momentum in which we want to bring it forward. We're not adapting to change. We're shaping it. What feels different today is this momentum.

We are stepping up our efforts in every area from keeping the pace to setting the pace from a heritage to breakthrough performance. This is not business as usual for us. It's a deliberate step change, a breakthrough in how we lead our company forward, and our heritage gives us strength, but our ambition will set us apart.

We are convinced that PostNL will again shape transformation in our industry. We're ready to lead that change, not just to keep the pace, but to define it from complexity to clarity through speed to scale and from challenge to solution. That is our momentum that we'll bring into this new strategy. From that purpose and that strategic intent, we go to the strategic objectives of the 3 business segments that we will use now going forward.

In e-commerce, we'll go from a volume to value strategy through a much more differentiated segmented commercial approach and better and smarter network utilization. In platforms, we really see great organic growth opportunities through our asset-light business models. And in mail, obviously, we need to transform the mail service to a future-proof postal service that can be sustainable going forward.

We manage those transformational elements through 10 strategic projects, portfolio priorities. I'll come back to those later on, but that's how we manage the change. So 3 segments, 3 strategic objectives run through 10 portfolio priorities under which there are initiatives, ethics, features by which we drive the change, leading towards 4 goals, our financial KPIs, Net Promoter Score ambition, carbon efficiency targets and employee engagement.

This also gives you the structure of what we will be discussing today. And this is how we will cascade our strategy down from purpose to goals and everything in between, we'll touch upon in the next segments to clarify why we believe we can go there and how we plan to do so.

This slide clearly indicates that we can build on our strong heritage. We've seen many transformations in the past before. We quite often play a leading role in those transformations and we can really leverage on that heritage and our transformational mindset. We've been at the heart of society for over 225 years, have been at the forefront of transformation, trusted by and through generations. We're there every day in every street. We lead with purpose. We foster our people, and we want to make change and not just following, but leading.

Well, you all know a bit about us, but just a few key elements. On the left-hand side, you see the various networks that we operate in. On the right-hand side, our key figures, EUR 3.3 billion of revenue, EUR 53 million normalized EBIT more than 32,000 employees that currently are working for us. Certainly, we have to define this new strategy on a quite demanding market backdrop with a lot of developments around the sector, but also the world at large.

So we've taken into account the general economic conditions and global trade elements, labor shortages, higher inflation levels, trade policies impacting certain trade lanes. We do see, obviously, consolidation in the e-commerce market where platformization and rise of marketplaces lead to bigger clients becoming even bigger. There has been and will continue to be great competition in the markets in which we operate.

At the same time, consumer expectations are shifting, demanding more control better ease of use, stronger digital connections that has driven the digital transformation of PostNL. We're making the next steps from digital transformation to an AI-first strategy. I will come to that later. And of course, we're in discussions on the universal service regulation changes that we seek to get to a sustainable Mail business.

If we then go to our ambitions and redefining our future is really driven by the breakthrough 2028, as we call it, with the ambition to get to a normalized EBIT of more than EUR 175 million by 2028. How do we get there? On e-commerce from volume to value, more segmented customer approach, differentiated and tiered propositions from next day to best day, we'll explain that later on a bit more, smart steering of those volumes to make use of the network capacity even better and share those capabilities across the teams to consistently work on better yield and yield management.

Platforms, we see growth opportunities, expanding digital first and asset-light platform, Spring and MyParcel, predominantly focused on intra-Europe growth. And in Mail, we're taking all necessary steps to create a future-proof Mail business. Of course, leveraging on our brand, our capabilities, our customer-facing platforms, using what we already have and accelerating in the space of data and AI-first.

We're going to put a bit more spotlight on our innovation efforts in a minute because that is another area where I think there's great opportunities for us going forward. And to drive this strategy towards execution, we, of course, will work on the performance management culture. We'll make some changes in the structure, and we'll assist the senior management teams to cascade this down to shop floor so that everybody truly understands how they can contribute to the strategy that we've just said.

And as indicated already before, we will be reporting over 3 business segments as of January 1, being e-commerce platforms and Mail as of January 2026. This slide captures the 6 strategic objectives for our business segments and for our enablers. The 3 in the middle we already discussed for e-commerce Platforms and Mail. The 3 on the right are what we call the enablers. So ESG take care of our people, environment and society. Data and Tech simplifying and accelerating our data and AI. And innovation beyond delivery, exploring new opportunities by stretching our core.

And the color coding on the right-hand side, you will see back in the slides going forward because we'll now discuss a bit more of the enablers and then go to the business segments a little later. On ESG, it's, of course, not something separate, but ingrained in our strategy and a foundation for everything we do.

The 3 icons on the left hand side are the sustainable development goals that are relevant for us, climate action, responsible consumption and production and decent work and economic growth. And of course, we want to improve our environmental footprint by reducing emissions. The targets we've set will follow on the next slide. We want to create positive impact on the people across the value chain and drive long-term sustainable business value going forward.

Clearly, and that's also what the movie said, everything starts with our men and women on the streets, 32,000 colleagues. We're really proud to be a responsible employer, providing opportunities for all and ensuring that people can thrive. It's their commitment that really powers our success, which also means that we'll need to keep an eye on healthy and safe working environment, we will continue to invest in to improve that.

And of course, it's important to attract and retain the right talent to make this transformation happen. That's also why we're proud to still be ranked as a top 15 employer in the Netherlands. Then on the ESG target side, on the right-hand side, you see our SBTi validated targets to get to net zero by 2040. We want to go to a 45% reduction of Scope 3 emissions by 2030 compared to 2021, which is a 90% reduction on the elements of Scope 1 and 2 that we control much more ourselves.

So those are kind of the validated targets by SBTi that are ingrained in this entire strategy. Data and tech have been crucial, and we try to simplify and accelerate by using the data and AI capabilities that we have. This slide shows the journey that we've been on, and very many of you have seen parts of that. Quite early on, we started to migrate to the cloud then transform to a self engineering organization, embedded agile, agile ways of working in how we run the change.

Our DevOps teams are crucial there that increases the flexibility at the pace in which we can deploy new solutions. Last year, as we've been exploring AI on very many different elements, and we are now accelerating towards an AI-first strategy, and we're also committing a couple of million to that change because we truly believe we can accelerate and simplify on key business drivers through this technology shift.

And that's basically also on this slide. So we've embedded this in business domains. We've created a center of excellence that defines and drives very many different use cases. It's around 4 transformational streams. Of course, you need to do foundational work to be able to apply algorithms in your business. It requires AI governance and digital ethics, but also a partner ecosystem, you are not able to develop all those tools yourself. So with whom do you want to cooperate and how do you structure those business models.

Value execution, we've been using by now, I would say, a couple of hundred use cases. We learned what works and doesn't work. So from testing and doing those use cases, we're now scaling them to make the impact on our primary and secondary business processes. And it also requires you to train your key people to be able to use these new technology developments, and that's what we're doing as well. Then a theme that has not been so much in the spotlight over the last year or so, but we've been working on quite extensively is our innovation and innovation beyond delivery. And we're looking always for new opportunities stretching our core. So not walking away from our core, but seeing what kind of capabilities we have.

We could stretch to different marketplaces. We innovate with intention to make every step faster, smarter and more meaningful. Our platform never stands still and evolves with the needs of today and the vision of tomorrow. That leads to various innovation propositions in the 3 icons that you see are either e-commerce, AI and tech and neighborhoods. So it's not that we're just responding to the rise of online shoppers. We are redefining how e-commerce works.

We collaborate with partners and platforms to build smarter, more sustainable e-commerce solutions. From sales to checkout and returns, we're defining new propositions. We put intelligence at the heart of everything, not just to move faster, but to move smarter, working with colleagues and experts to develop smarter operations, personalized services to create new value to serve our clients better today and help them grow tomorrow.

We're not entering the market to follow, but to change it, building the new ecosystems with leading partners to create smart, profitable solutions for neighborhoods, for people and for us. We've defined 6 domains or areas of development to help shape our future, where we see great opportunities for innovation. Identity wallet, digital identity propositions, social commerce, how will that evolve? What does it take? On the AI side, we're building new products with AI, but also testing Agentic AI, not only for our own processes, but also how we can use our data and our insights to create agents that could help our clients.

And on the neighborhood side of things, being where we are, Nummernul is a cooperation that we have with communities that really start to create nice or better communities around energy, mobility and increasing the real spending power of those neighborhoods by working together. And we see various propositions that we're testing there around energy, around mobility, where we will also partner and co-create with others to see what we can do there.

Let's see why it doesn't move. So I can't get to the next slide. Here we are. And this is a movie that will start to give a sense of what we can do with AI.

[Presentation]

Well, as you saw in this movie, which was completely AI generated, there are still a few errors and bloopers in it, we will continue to, here we go, continue to learn. A bit too quick there, but there are still plenty to learn also on the AI side, which clearly is the same if we talk about us as an organization. And the important thing is that we just keep moving forward with the right mindset, becoming performance-driven while embracing that transformation. And that starts with strategic performance management.

An instrument for agile strategy execution, that's also why those 10 strategic priorities are so important because through those 10, we drive the change through initiatives, ethics and features. We'll focus on simplification, delayering, accountability, matching incentives to key priorities and to continue to invest in that transformational capability. Of course, that requires focused leadership that know what to do, but also how they do and do not contribute to the elements of the North Star.

And we're working to get to an even better performance management culture by making sure that there's true ownership and a drive to deliver the tangible results that we're looking for. And really through empowerment of the teams with full end-to-end responsibility. That also will require us to adapt structure and process based on the strategic priorities that we've set. And that's what we will be doing in the near future as well.

These are then those 10 strategic portfolio priorities. I will not go in that much detail, but they cover the 3 strategic ambitions of both e-commerce Platforms and Mail. So for instance, seamless services is really about easy onboarding of customers, right information at the right time to reduce churn. Really, this is where we make a distinction and commercial success is driven through it. E-commerce portfolio drives the change towards which propositions do we need to offer to which type of clients, optimizing the yield and margin profiles.

Network efficiency is obviously a combination of initiatives that want to reduce the cost base of the parcel. And so we've got 10 of those that all have their own objectives, and you can drill down towards the various initiatives that contribute to the change that will then subsequently help us to get to the financial ambition that we've set at more than EUR 175 million by 2028. And that is this slide. So we believe with everything that we've looked at, the people that are around us, we can get to EUR 4 billion of revenue by 2028, and normalized EBIT beyond EUR 175 million, translating to a free cash flow of more than EUR 75 million and a return on invested capital that covers the average cost of capital by getting to more than 12%.

On NPS, we want to remain the #1 party, both at customers and consumers preference and carbon efficiency goals reducing the Scope 1, 2 and 3 by 20% to 25% by 2028, which is, of course, another horizon than on the ESG slide because there we were looking at 2030 and 2040 objectives based on our SBTi objectives. We want to improve the employee engagement by 5 percentage points in the next 2.5 years. That basically covers the strategy at group level and all elements that together need to get us to the financial objectives that we've set. And then we go to the various segments, and we start with e-commerce, where the strategic intent is to go from a volume to value through a differentiated approach and smart network utilization.

The topics that we will be discussing in this segment are, of course, looking back to the market dynamics, the leading position that we have, how we expect the market to develop, how we think our customer base will develop over time, what role consumers do play in this marketplace and how we adapt to that evolving market. And of course, we'll also look into Belgium because what we mean by domestic, our e-commerce business encompasses also our Belgium propositions.

We have a leadership position, which is built on a few very strong assets. We have the highest customer experience with a strong brand. We're the favorite deliverer for consumers with a distinctive distance to the #2 player of 18 points. We're the most reliable deliver, 89% of parcels delivered on time and a trusted brand. If you think -- talk about our omnichannel offerings, we've got top-rated consumer app, more than 9 million accounts.

The most dense largest 2C network in the Netherlands, which serves more than 100,000 clients, 370 million parcels delivered last year. Clearly, the #1 in the Netherlands and the #2 player in Belgium. Scale and sustainability as competitive differentiators to 5,600 retail locations, currently 1,200 APLs, striving to get to 1,600 by the end of the year. And obviously, something we're very proud of is that we are the most sustainable e-commerce delivery company in the world according to the Dow Jones Sustainability Index.

The market in which e-commerce operates is still a market that is expected to grow. From left to right, what drives the growth. The most important growth driver is online penetration, assumed to increase by 0.4% to 0.7% through consumer behavior, market players, marketplaces social platforms, plus the retail market growth that will be a function of GDP growth in the Netherlands, more or less. That gives you the addressable Dutch market expected to grow by roughly 5% per year.

We maintain a leading market share position, although we might lose a bit of share given our shift from volume to value. And then on top of that, we've got the Belgium and C2X flows that gets us to an average volume growth of roughly 5% per year as a key assumption that drives the e-commerce business going forward. And certainly, we've seen changing market dynamics in this sector, where, let's say, a decade ago, market growth was hyper growth. The source of growth was really retail shoppers getting online, not so much competition yet and also where our clients were focused on growth, growth, growth. That has now changed.

Money is not cheap anymore. So they need to translate that also to earnings growth, EBITDA. So it's about margin, it's about retention, it's about cross-selling, it's about differentiating more and less relevant type of consumers that you serve and the market has changed through those increasing client concentrations. The bigger clients, the Asian giants have taken market share and growing faster than others. The importance of consumer experience, where do you buy is a function of how much do you control, where do you find your delivery preferences, what's the ease of use, how friendly is the checkout process.

And those have also led to changing consumer behavior. What we really see is that the ordering moments have become much more concentrated. Of course, we always had the end of year peak around Black Friday in the class. But now we also see those moments being much more concentrated around the dates on which the salary has been received, much more spend in the weekends, leading to unequal flows on Monday, Tuesday and of course, a rise in cross-border shopping that has accelerated that profile.

And that's then the picture of that results. So if you look at the left-hand side, so by 2019, the development of the client concentration where, obviously, the top 50 has gained market share. Marketplaces have become more important at the expense of other, mainly SME type of customers in that space. If you then compare the client concentration in the Netherlands with other countries, it's still at the lower end, now 34% of top 3 players, whilst China is 73%. We do expect this to evolve to somewhere in the middle of this graph, around 45% to 50%. We would expect the top 3 to gain from others.

Of course, that also leads to pressure on the profit pool, where you see the margin per parcel, platformization of SME because they lack the reach to sell, they move to the marketplaces. They will accelerate the growth of marketplaces even further. Those customer segments have been the segments with the margin profile as being the most positive. The marketplaces and Asian platforms have been growing with a lower contribution and the other platforms a bit in between. That growth or that development is expected to continue. And that's also why it's so important not to chase just volume, but to differentiate. Otherwise, you will erode profitability quite quickly.

So the strategy must focus on capturing value, segmenting customers effectively and aligning propositions with where margins can be created. That's the essence of moving from volume to value. Then let's step away from the web shops and then go to the consumers, the shoppers and the receivers of the parcels that we deliver. And consumers are increasingly at the center of the e-commerce chain. And their expectations are shifting, and this shapes our web shops and logistical providers must respond. And you see there is a significant difference in a happy shopper and unhappy shopper in terms of lifetime value, 5x more.

You also see that delivery drives customer experience because those are key drivers of consumer experience. The biggest categories are shipping costs, product quality, shipping speed and returns policies. And you also see that basically 20% of web shop buyers drive 80% of their value. So there's more than enough room to differentiate your propositions. Next to that, although for years, next day delivery has been the standard. This slide shows that consumer behavior is shifting here, too.

On the left, you see delivery speed expectations as delivery takes more days, satisfaction gradually declines. But importantly, many consumers remain satisfied for up to 3 days, willing to wait 3 days before becoming impatient. If you talk about receiver needs, they just want to be in control through the e-tailer checkout. It's not necessarily next day that is determined. Flexibility, flexibility in delivery options at checkout that allow platforms to share benefit with longer windows to consumers are viable.

Delivery providers benefit through better network utilization and can incentivize platform to lower delivery costs as well. We've done that research, and we truly see clear indications that there is room to move from next day to best day. That doesn't mean that we'll not have next-day delivery, but it allows you to give more flexibility in checkout to create more equal flow which leads to an even more efficient e-commerce value chain that also can lead to different value distribution along that chain, a crucial change towards in our strategy.

So that's what consumers think is important. On the customer segments, there are certainly different delivery needs, too. From simple, straightforward to premium services to even beyond that propositions that create stickiness and create advocacy on unique offerings. And we really want to show with this picture that for a while, this industry has been focused on almost one size fits all.

Next day, this is the proposition, this is the price. This picture indicates that there's truly different needs in different e-commerce companies depending on where they play, how they play, whether or not they are marketplaces or smaller e-tailers. And we believe we can better differentiate our service offerings to them to make them more successful, whilst at the same time, creating a better margin profile for us, too.

So this e-commerce market continues to grow, but in a different way and with evolving market dynamics. Our customer base has matured, shifting focus to consumer retention and profitability. The emphasis has been on speed, no longer aligned to demand. Most purchases are not that urgent that next day is required. Purchasing mainly in the weekend, combined with next-day delivery puts unnecessary network pressures on network and also not the most sustainable way to deliver parcels.

Delivery experience remains a critical factor in which you can differentiate yourself from other carriers. So our customers ideally choose between customer experience depending on the shipment and what it is that they want to receive. Consumers are open to the shift from next day to best day, provided that benefits are shared and they are in control. So that is why we say this is good news and our aim to get to a much more differentiated approach, both in terms of customers as consumers and create tiered propositions based on much more rigid segmented customer demands will allow us to improve the margins in the e-commerce space.

This is altogether what we call yield management, and we've got a video that shows how the market evolved over time and what we now believe the yield management approach to be. Let's take a look.

[Presentation]

So for us its really clear. We believe that joint supply chain to create that sustainable e-commerce feature. We will clearly take the lead and make the changes we believe we need to make and some of them we already discussed, some others will follow later. Of course, we call and lead the others to make the same changes in that marketplace. We believe the time to act and to change those dynamics is now. We've got a clear plan that we will subsequently execute.

And with that, I hand over to Linde, and she will take us through the remaining elements of e-commerce.

Thank you, Pim. And before moving on, also a warm welcome on my behalf for the people over here, of course, and also for the people online. So looking forward to today's presentation. As mentioned by Pim, we are facing challenges in the e-commerce market. And I will talk you through today how we are going to tackle that. So really, the action plan. And that is what we are calling our margin engine. That are 4 pillars where we drive action to get to the volume -- from volume to value strategy.

Here, just an overview one by one in the next slides, I will go through this margin engine. The first pillar is stronger -- is a stronger commercial engine. Like Pim mentioned, this is about segmenting our customers more clearly and offering tiered value propositions. I will talk you through a bit later how. Secondly, is delivering a distinctive experience when and where it matters most. We want to remain the most trusted and preferred logistics provider, and we will tell you how we are going to leverage on that.

The third pillar is being competitive at cost, leveraging on our strategic assets. That can be in the area of our out-of-home strategy but also in reducing our network costs and rebalancing our cost structure. The last pillar is about stepping up in steering and teaming capabilities. So how we are going to drive this change with our teams and people that's data-driven and also with the right tools available for our salespeople.

Let's move one by one to the different pillars. Starting with the stronger commercial engine. This slide shows how we put that into practice. Of course, like Pim said, it is not a one size fits all. We are moving to a tiered value propositions that reflect both customer needs and commercial needs. How we do that? At the base level, you see we offer simple and reliable service with fixed in-feed times with standard delivery hours full range of delivery options and track and trace. This covers the essentials at low cost.

On top of that, we have our premium bar. And what does that include? It's the premium tier, more flexible in-feed, a dedicated support team, higher priorities at peaks and high-performance integrations. Here, we want to monetize that customers pay for the extras they get. And the last on the top that are adding our digital services. Here, we want to differentiate cost segments such as checkout solutions and value-adding insights. By proactively including these services, we create more stickiness for customers and more profitability for us. And this is how we strengthen the commercial engine by tailoring value to segments and strengthening each customers contribute fairly.

A second important element of the first pillar is how we utilize our network. This slide shows the challenge clearly for the day, for the week and for the year. We see that the peaks get more frequent and get higher, like Pim also mentioned earlier on, while at other times, capacity is underutilized. And when capacity drops below a certain level, the margin gets negative. To address this, we are building a more agile, data-driven distribution model, supported with capacity-based incentives.

How does that work? Well, starting with the day level. Looking at the day, our objective is to capture more volumes with early feed-in and applying a premium for later injections during the day. We established this via pricing and contractual agreements.

Then moving on to the week level. We use flexible propositions to spread volumes more evenly balancing between early and late in the week. For example, by steering towards delivery day choice and promoting our out-of-home network. And then the year level. Here, we apply price mechanisms to manage seasonality and increase utilization during low-volume periods. This approach helps us run a healthier network, better balanced, more efficient and ultimately more sustainable.

And as addressed by Pim, this is not just for us, but for the whole ecosystem of e-commerce. But a key element to make this happen is obviously to make sure that we move from best day -- from next day to best day. The idea is simple. Instead of only offering next-day delivery, consumers are giving an additional option in the checkout for more an extended delivery window at a different price. That creates choice for the consumer and more flexibility in our network. As I just showed, the unequal flow puts a lot of pressure on our network and shifting from next day to best day is helping that.

By the way, good to know that the change from next day to best day does apply for the consumer, not for us as PostNL. We still get our in-feed during a certain day of the week and we deliver next day. It's more a different date that we get the products delivered to us. But how are we going to do that? Of course, that may be your question. We are going to run pilots together with our customers, where we are trying to test certain hypothesis. And we are checking with different customers, different segments, what is working? What are certain price to check certain price elasticity? Or is something working in a specific product category? Well, it's not working with others.

And that we are doing together with our customers. And we do that via pilots, which run in 3 different phases. We start with validating proof points. We scale up our learning. And lastly, we gain value and not just for us, as said, but for the whole e-commerce ecosystem. And by running these pilots, we get answers to those specific questions. And we learn along the way to optimize this model of best moving to best day.

So in short, we want to be the market shaper here in this area of moving to best Day. And here, we shape it for the whole ecosystem as it is a win-win for everyone. Consumers are more happy. Web shops also get better eco flow. And for us, we get less turbulence in our flow and also more profitability in the end. Then moving on to the second pillar, which is the consumer experience. As Pim mentioned, we have a very strong position here on our consumer experience, and we want to leverage on that.

We drive value for our customers by explaining the value we bring to our consumers. When we have happy consumers, they order more and that will also give value to our customers. How do we do that? Digital roles -- digital tools play a key role here. By integrating conversational AI, we are creating fast, digital and seamless I get help journey for our consumers. And on the left, you see the different phases of the consumer journey. From I manage my account, I buy, I follow, and I change. But the most important one is I receive. That's where expectations are highest and where we can create the difference and leverage on our strong position over here.

At the same time, we are also more personalizing the consumer experience for the I receive journey, making it easier and more flexible. A central enabler here is the PostNL ID, which allows us to use our large account base to create personal and efficient delivery experience. This is how we set the standard in consumer experience. The third pillar is on being competitive at cost. This slide shows how we prepare our network for volume growth without significant CapEx until 2028.

On the left side, you see the developments over 2028 from a volume point of view. From 2026 onwards, additional measures come here into play. New distribution centers, optimization of the small parcel center, where we are today, extra measures in sorting centers, and we continue to improve the eco flow to avoid overcapacity at peaks. The foundation, however, remains our strong infrastructure. On the right, you see the map showing this strong infrastructure.

Our current footprint in the Netherlands and Belgium consists of, amongst others, 29 automated sorting centers. So in short, what are we doing here? We stretch and optimize what we already have so we can grow volume without heavy investments. Another important pillar of being competitive at cost is our out-of-home strategy. We have a clear ambition here for our out-of-home. We want to grow our out-of-home delivery from 12.5% in 2024 to over 20% to around 20% in 2028. And the flywheel on this slide shows clearly the whole value across the ecosystem.

And let me start on the right with the growing adoption. As adoption is growing quickly, more and more consumers are actively choosing an out-of-home option in the app and large web shops integrate lockers into their checkout. Then moving on to the consumers. Also for the consumers, this is a win-win. Consumers are highly satisfied with our out-of-home options reflected in a very strong NPS. That satisfaction translates into loyalty, and they return more often to the web shops, which in turn drives revenue for our customers.

So as I said, a win-win. And then moving on the left side, our side. For us, out-of-home is a very efficient delivery model. It means fewer stops, better utilization of our network and a lower carbon footprint. And importantly, the cost for locker delivery are roughly 30% lower versus delivery at home. And good to know that PuDos also benefit because parcel handling becomes simpler and less labor-intensive.

And that brings me to the last number four, accelerating our investments. So it's clear why we invest in our out-of-home strategy. We want to add over 600 APLs towards 3,600 in 2028, which is quite a step-up. But this is alongside a stable PuDo network which together creates a strong network, ensuring flexibility and creates an efficient capacity management.

So in short, our out-of-home network ticks all the boxes, is absolutely a win-win for our e-commerce system. It meets consumer demands and build one of the key pillars of our e-commerce strategy. It works again, sorry. Then moving on to another element of our cost being competitive at cost, namely our organic costs. On the left side, you see clearly our challenge. The orange line assumes an increase in total of your total cost per parcels over the years, growing up to 5% to 10%.

Without organic cost increases, all our cost savings measures and efficiency improvements would have led to a decline in our cost per parcel by 10% to 15%, and that is reflected by the blue line. So significant cost increases on your organic costs mean that efficiency gains are essential, which we address by strong and strict cost control.

On the slide, we have highlighted some examples. We have a very strong record of achieving cost saving initiatives. And that is something which we will continue to do over the coming years. That ranges from changing our operating model to further automating and digitizing. And we will continue these cost savings along the coming years to '28 as well. Then addressing the labor force, building on what Pim mentioned on earlier.

Our biggest challenge in the sector is labor. It's tight competition for people is high and costs for flexible labor are rising. At the same time, compliance demands are heavily increasing. This creates pressure on both stability and affordability to our people. And that's why we have a strong focus on working conditions and a stable workforce. Our people are at the heart of our operations, investing in them is crucial to run the business and keep costs under control.

On this slide, we have highlighted some examples of what we are doing in this area. From implementing new technologies, think of the tilters we have implemented over the past year. up until new in-feed or adjusted in-feed requirements to improve the workload and the heaviness of the workload for our people. These steps strengthen safety, engagement and efficiency and making our workforce more future proof.

Then moving on to our last -- to our last pillar of our margin engine, which is a super important one. That is how we make the system work with our people and with our capabilities. This slide shows the whole framework from our strategic goals up until execution.

Actually, the idea behind this are the exact usual -- exact broad and actionable insights, which drives our behavior and at the same time, strict steering mechanisms from the both commercial and operational side, which help us to execute our goals and deliver on our goals. And most important to highlight here on the slide is a strong organizational foundation. The right structure, governance, culture, processes and the data and tools to steer it all effectively. And that is what we are heavily investing also with the programs like Pim explained, our 10 SPM programs, but that is driving the culture change, which is needed to bring this strategy to life. And the last and a very important part of our action on the margin engine is our yield management toolbox.

The previous slide covered our overall framework from steering and to the right organizational mindset. But this slide zooms in the exact tools we have at hand to make it happen. The objective is clear. We should monetize capacity by optimizing our customer and product mix. And by structural programs, we move towards really revenue management. And the toolbox consists of 4 elements: First of all, general price increases and indexation. This is to mitigate the inflationary pressures.

Secondly, we are strict on contractual clauses to protect pricing, where actual volumes differ from predicted volumes, but also stricter adherence to our contract conditions. A third element are surcharges. These are applied for peak volumes, oversized items or shipments that are less suitable for sorting. These ensure incremental costs are covered by the client. And lastly, our differentiated commercial propositions and prices. Tailored modular offers supported by granular cost driver insights. That together allows us to set the right price for the right customer segment, including optimizing the overall e-commerce chain with a better eco flow, building on what Pim explained before. And all that together in our yield management toolbox is what we apply to make our margin engine work. And that brings me to the end of our margin engine.

But like Pim said, we have more. Part of our e-commerce is Belgium. Belgium is our second home market and a super important growth market for us. On the left side, you see the parcel market in Belgium, where you see volumes ranging from EUR 360 million in 2022 towards EUR 381 million in 2024. And we expect it to further grow 4% to 5% towards 2028. Belgium is still highly denominated by non-Belgium players with imports taking larger share of the market.

Domestic and export volumes are roughly equal with exports slightly ahead. The pie on the left bottom shows the split of our volume in Belgium, which is mostly import, and that means import for Belgium. So that means that Dutch platforms where it's ordered and where we deliver at Belgium homes. And then in the middle, you see our assets and networks, how we make that happen. We already have achieved a significant increase in NPS scores. And as just explained, a high NPS score is a very strong asset to build on, and that brings -- gives us a lot of leverage to further expand our growth in Belgium.

Our networks consist of 2 fully automated sorting centers, and we have 6 distribution only centers as well. This means there is room to optimize infrastructure to accommodate further growth. And what and how are we going to accelerate the growth? We want to accelerate to outperform the market growth in Belgium through amongst others, strengthening export into Europe via our Spring operation and pushing our out-of-home strategy in Belgium as well.

The execution of that is shown by the 6 pillars at the right bottom. That is our, I would say, toolkit to make it happen. Together, this results in growth and value capturing in the second home market for us. And that brings me to the end slide of the e-commerce business segment.

Let me wrap up our e-commerce story. Our strategy is clearly to move from volume to value. We do that via 4 pillars of our margin engine that is strengthening our commercial engine. So a more differentiated customer approach, tiered propositions, moving from next day to best day and to smoothly flows and reduce costs. Secondly, we want to be distinctive when and where it matters most, giving consumers control by improving the critical I receive journey and deploying digital tools to enhance experience. And thirdly, being competitive on costs. Smart assorting operations, better alignment of resources and targeted investments in technology will help us run more efficiently -- will help us run the network more efficiently.

Then lastly, the step-up in steering and teaming. Active revenue and capacity management, as just explained, supported by a strong organic foundation with a transformational mindset will help us give more control over our yield and margin. This is how we build a more profitable and resilient e-commerce business. With that, I have covered what we are reshaping and where we are the market shaper for our e-commerce. But PostNL obviously has much more than our e-commerce segment, and we want to explore our international growth opportunities via the asset-light platform business.

So let me hand over to Pim to talk you through the platforms segment.

So having covered e-commerce and shown you how we are reshaping this domestic model from volume to value. It's now time to look at our other exciting part being our platform business, around asset-light business models that we have.

Platforms are a natural extension of our strategy. They connect merchants to carriers, to consumers, cross-border, scalable, flexible, digitally enabled, and they complement our asset-heavy networks while opening up new opportunities for organic growth. I will take you through the first part of this story, explaining the market dynamics and the different models. And Tijs Reumerman, my colleague, Managing Director of Cross-Border will then show you how this works in practice a little while later.

So if we go to the markets that define these, then obviously, e-commerce is by nature, digital and cross-border. It's blurring the traditional lines between domestic and international logistics. Customers now need access to delivery solutions that are internationally integrated and competitive. They don't think about borders. They expect European or even global reach. As a standard. At the same time, merchant expectations have shifted. Shipping must be simple, scalable, flexible, multi-carrier, has to be API first, real-time data, full visibility in the chain where your parcel is -- and e-commerce growth across Europe clearly continues.

Whilst cross-border growth is much faster 1.5x faster than domestic growth in these markets. So that's really where the acceleration is happening. And that's also why -- given these changing demands and changing market dynamics, logistic models need to evolve. And that's what we go and talk about on this slide. We've got 2 distinctive business models that we'll detail out for you.

Spring delivers end-to-end cross-border logistics, using local presence, leveraging flexible partner networks for first, middle and last mile delivery. It enables merchants to scale, capturing intra-growth e-commerce growth. Asia and America unlock growth by feeding into the European network, broadening the services, diversifying origins, customers and destinations.

MyParcel is 100% digital merchant platform. It connects carriers, shop systems, marketplaces, all through one interface. It scales fast with very low CapEx and strong unit economics, 2 business models, both built for digital e-commerce, both designed for scale. It's a model with clearly distinctive valuation characteristics. Why do those asset-light platforms scale differently from our asset-heavy businesses. It connects merchants through technology, API first, choice, scalability, adaptability. It's asset light.

So the only real assets are the digital attributes that are required to make those connections. It allows you for rapid market entry at relatively low capital intensity. It actually offers the orchestration of the logistical flows by using assets and capabilities of others. It gives an end-to-end digital solution from order management through fulfillment to delivery, and the margins develop while scaling volume with limited operational risk.

And if you look at valuations of various platforms, they significantly vary, of course, from the more asset-heavy business models that are being valued. Those asset-light models are quite often valued on revenue or gross profit multiples, emphasizing growth and margin leverage. Asset heavy carriers are obviously valued on EBITDA or EBIT multiples.

Those digital brokers achieve higher valuations due to the scalability, marginal costs that are being low and the ecosystem effects as a consequence of growth and revenue gross and profit multiples allow for higher valuations at growth states without immediate higher profit margins.

They reward scalability, growth potential and margin upside in capital-light models. So not only allow these business models extra growth opportunities in Europe, in Asia to Europe for PostNL, we also believe they drive part of the equity story in terms of valuation dynamics. Tijs will now explain to you in more detail how those business models work in practice.

Welcome at IMEC, our international Mail and e-commerce center, the heart of our cross-border network. This is where international parcels from around the world enter PostNL's eco system. From here, we process clear and drive them into Europe. If you closely look at how our models Spring and MyParcel connect merchants and carriers worldwide. Let's watch the following animation.

[Presentation]

That's the animation video showed, our platform business has grown into a truly global operation. We now run 20 distributions hubs across 3 continents, as we are connected to more than 230 partner carriers serving 190 destinations. Merchants can access over 120,000 drop-off points to our network globally. And this scale translates into strong commercial traction. Revenue in 2024 was more than EUR 700 million. On top of that, we see clear momentum in our local platform activity with strong recurring revenues and over 25,000 e-commerce customers and more than 50 integrated carriers are already connected.

This is powered by a dedicated team of around 750 colleagues worldwide. So while our reach is global, our strength comes from local expertise, combining international skill with strong on-the-ground presence in Europe, the Americas and Asia. This combination of global scale and local presence gives us the ability to serve merchants of every size, wherever they are and wherever they want to grow. Let me zoom in, in our first platform, Spring.

Its strength lies in its hybrid model, combining asset-light partnerships, physical hubs and local sales teams. This gives us the best of both worlds. Partnerships keeps us flexible. We can scale up or down, open or close trade lanes and adapt quickly to regulations, for example. Our hubs provide consolidation, efficiency, quality control and customer expertise, solving pain points pure digital brokers cannot cover. And with local sales teams, we help merchants navigate through customs, VAT and delivery choices with real hands on the ground. That is the sweet spot where Spring differentiates itself, digital skill, physical reliability and local expertise.

In the Americas, we are capturing growing e-commerce flows from North America into Europe and from Canada into the U.S. We build partnerships, strengthen lanes and provide custom solutions that give merchants easier access to cross-border trade. In Asia, our focus is to feed our domestic NL and Belgium network, but also our European network. We broadened the origin base beyond China, develop new commercial lanes and invest in customs proposition. This positions Spring as the go-to partner for platform-driven volume.

And in Europe, we are expanding our network with more hubs and line hauls, strengthening our footprint in Central and Eastern Europe and supporting MyParcels growth through smart routing and APIs. Here, we also combine the local presence with proactive customs handling and targeted commercial expansion. The result as a unified platform, operating globally with local debt where it matters most. To capture the growth in intra-European e-commerce, we're accelerating our expansion. On the commercial side, we are broadening our customer base with stronger propositions and also a reliable service.

We are expanding our sales footprint and stepping up marketing activities as we are investing in tooling and AI to make our offering even more competitive. At the same time, we are expanding our European network. We are increasing line haul frequency, rolling out new hubs across Europe and adding new capabilities. Through procurement efficiencies and better asset utilization, we're also driving costs down significantly.

And finally, we are aligning our IT capabilities, building digital-first solutions and embedding AI tooling to support smarter operation. All of this fuels our flywheel of growth. Better propositions lead to more customers, which means more volume, better efficiency and the ability to reinvest in growth. The market for shipping platforms has changed dramatically. Traditionally, players were segmented. Some focus purely on consolidation and rates, other offers control tower functions for large merchants and other specialize in customer-facing experience.

Today, these models are converging. Leading platforms now offer integrated propositions, combining consolidation, control and experience into a single solution. This is exactly where MyParcel is positioning itself. Our ambition is to occupy the sweet spot where these models converge. We're building a hybrid approach that blends skill, depth of service and customer experience. And importantly, our model is designed to be replicated across markets, giving us a foundation for international expansion.

Strategically, our focus is clear. We aim to capture small, medium enterprises and scale-ups. These merchants seek cost efficiency, but also need premium functionality as they grow. By adapting to diverse European markets, we can deliver both. Our strength set us apart, multi-carrier Software as-a-Service functionality and modular services that span the entire e-commerce value chain. And by leveraging Spring's international network and rates, we add even more competitive advantage.

So MyParcels edge lies in occupying the convergence point, offering skill, service and customer experience in one powerful platform. Spring and MyParcel are 2 engines with ecosystem. Together, they cover the full growth curve from a merchant's very first shipment to international scale. MyParcel unlocks small, medium enterprises and niche segments where traditional logistics often underperform and it attracts merchants early in their life cycle with fast onboarding, plug-and-play integrations and immediate access to both domestic and cross-border delivery.

When those businesses grow internationally, Spring takes over with scale, providing cost efficiency, broader delivery reach and additional services such as customs. And Spring also accelerated MyParcel international expansion by leveraging Spring's infrastructure, rates and hubs, we can roll out MyParcel into new European markets quickly and efficiently.

So while each model has a clear role and value proposition, together, they reinforce each other, creating one ecosystem. flexible at the start, scalable at the next stage and reliable all the way through. Our platform strategy is delivering strong traction with clear economics. Revenues are growing at a healthy pace with a year-on-year growth of 12% and customer satisfaction is rising fast. Spring's NPS has more than doubled in 2 years, reaching 51 by 2025.

We are accelerating merchant onboarding on MyParcel and extending our international footprint with new line hauls and new countries. We help merchants scale internationally through Spring, creating strong upsell and cross-sell momentum. Our data-driven approach gives merchants greater visibility and control from tracking and rates to carbon reporting. And by deepening integrations with marketplaces and shop systems, we strengthen stickiness and retention.

All of this runs on an asset-light model. Low CapEx, scalable margins and limited operational risk. And we are pushing this proven model harder into the market, supported by investment in sales and marketing to capture share. Our platforms models are designed for profitable international growth. Firstly, we would accelerate international flows. Asset-light models allow us to expand routes quickly and capture new customer portfolios without heavy investment.

Secondly, we strengthen our Dutch domestic leadership by keeping export flows and international volume in PostNL's network. We improve customer stickiness and protect our home markets. Thirdly, we build a smarter, leaner network, shared platforms, infrastructure, strong partner models and automation through API drive efficiency and scalability. And finally, we fuel platform-based growth. With digital onboarding, plug-and-play tools and scalable IT, we create network effects that reinforce growth and enable new propositions.

In short, asset-light models give us flexibility, scale and profitability. They position us to capture international e-commerce growth while strengthening PostNL's domestic base. That concludes the platform section. Pim, back to you.

Thank you, Tijs. Well, look, this is in itself an exciting segment. But as Tijs said, it is also very important with the ties towards domestic network. So both facilitating the growth and network utilization in the domestic whilst growing these international businesses is a double-edge part that both in terms of revenue and margin expansion gives us great opportunities.

Now let's go to our third segment, which is obviously Mail. There, the ambition is quite simple by the looks of this one sentence, but quite complicated in real life. We're trying to transform towards a future proof postal service. As you know, we're committed to secure that sustainable postal service. And we've got a clear road map. We've scenario planned all the way through. We know what we'll do at what action from the other side, so to speak. But it is a process that is not completely in our own hands.

So we can plan for it. We can think about it, we can mitigate. When we are in a political process where kind of the current proposal already from the 30th of June of the minister is not economically viable and not feasible for us. That's why we've requested for net cost coverage. That was rejected based on European legislation, a provider of public service entitled to compensation if those obligations impose a disproportionate financial burden, which in our view is clearly the case. We've appealed against that rejection for net cost compensation and that is expected to lead to a decision on appeal in early November.

What we've done so is a couple of weeks ago, we sent the next letter to the minister on the response of the preliminary hearings on the net cost to basically ask for a relief on the USO obligations, and we have yet to wait his response to that. We've set a 2-month deadline on the 5th of September. So that brings us to early November where we would have the outcome of the appeal and ultimately the view of the minister on the request to be released from that universal service obligation.

In the meantime, we're continuing with our own action plan. It's obviously important that we're ready to make the transformation to D+2 in July 2026, but also already prepare for D+3 by 2028. That gives us potential for further cost saving and/or net compensation needed to get to a future-proof postal service. The request to relief has been done. And of course, if possible, we have a great preference to find a solution here in constructive dialogue.

Whilst at the same time, if we can't get there through dialogue, we will take mitigating measures ourselves as we believe we can no longer absorb those net costs that do relate to the USO obligation. This is a crucial slide, not only for Mail business, but also for the entire equity story of PostNL because this indicates how we believe we can get to that future proof postal service and how we can mitigate -- take mitigating measures to safeguard Mail's performance and as such, also offer a floor behind underneath PostNL's equity story.

So what you see here is basically 2 dotted lines in which we believe we can manage the Mail business going forward on a normalized EBIT basis, which is obviously not the same as a universal service result. Our plan is based on a D+2 per the 1st of July 2026, moving to D+3 by 2028 with a 90% quality standard and a, well, partial step-down in 2026 due to lead time and implementation cost. That makes the orange curve go slightly below there, gradually improving towards a positive result in 2028. The downside, we can reach through either changes in postal law that allows us to make those changes or by at some point, taking net cost out in case no political progress or financial contribution is going to be given.

Without those mitigating actions, USO will remain to be loss-making until at least 2029. The downside case, so the minus 20 line is the scenario that we've taken into account in the outlook. The positive side of things would be if there is that financial compensation on net cost where we truly believe those net costs are, and we believe we are entitled to that net cost compensation, and we're still able to execute the road map that I set out on the left-hand side, then you get a positive outcome within the Mail business along the lines of the blue line.

As said, we've only taken as part of the financial ambition 2028, the lower end of this range into account. And as I said, even though you get to profitability at 2028 in the orange line, the USO will then still be loss-making. And that's why we will continue to push for changes that either alleviate the obligations that relate to the net cost or government should pay for it if from a political point of view, we don't want to surrender these type of obligations. But left or right, we believe we can manage the Mail business within this normalized EBIT bandwidth.

How do we then take cost out? It's an image that we shared before. That gives kind of the various stages of this game plan. It will be gradual with clear milestones. So this year, we already have migrated the non-USO, so the business Mail to D+2 already. That will deliver a saving of EUR 15 million in this year. That's already taking the lower cost per item, cost saving on the off-peak Mailbox collection during the day has contributed to that.

So EUR 40 million to EUR 45 million of cost savings in 2025 based on not the USO changes, but the changes we already made. If we go to D+2, also including the letterbox pocket products and migration of USO mid-2026, you will see that we'll eliminate an off-peak route. And off-peak route are clearly the most expensive ones because there's a lot to bike, there's only limited mail to deliver. So the cost price per item is pretty high.

So Mail delivery will then be concentrated on 3 days at every address. There is still the option for priority products that need to be there next day, 24-hour products. but those will go through the e-commerce network. And we will consistently optimize the network for further efficiency in mailbox collections. That gets us roughly EUR 35 million to EUR 40 million savings a year. Then if you make the change to 2028, you go to a D+3 for both USO and business Mail. And then you basically eliminate one delivery day to create economies of scale.

So the Saturday there is gone, which means that you can concentrate the sorting process during the day, get rid of night work, which is also helpful from an employee point of view. You'll then continue further with your centralization of sorting and preparation processes and to continuously optimize that network going forward that will lead to cost savings of EUR 50 million to EUR 60 million. And then you will get to the point based on the assumptions that I shared on the previous slide that at least your mail business is not loss-making anymore.

So those are the steps that we need to go through. There are various ways to get there, preferably through dialogue. But if not, we're not going to wait and see. The impact of net costs are too big on the company and we'll then take steps to mitigate those net costs ourselves. So this is what we're set out to do, maintain the relevance of Mail services. There are still a lot of people that want to receive mail. It's for some even the connection to others.

We really want to continue doing that, but on an economically viable way. So it requires stability, simplicity and predictability, gradual and social migration of delivery within 2 to within 3 days, which means that we can do that with natural attrition in the workforce that will get to more attractive working packages for our people and also taking out working at night shifts.

At this point in time, it's fair to say that there is no clear perspective coming from the Minister as to how to do this. The debate that was planned for in Parliament was taken out on the back of the postal dialogue on the 3rd of September. We truly believe the ball is in his court to now determine how he want to make the change in a structural and economically viable way.

As said, we're here for dialogue, but we're not able to do this and absorb the USO cost. It's not viable. It's irresponsible and as such, we'll make the changes if we believe we need to make them. So decisive actions, including mitigating measures are there to limit the downside risk, which results in an EBIT range of minus EUR 20 million to plus EUR 15 million towards positive results on EBIT level, not on USO in all scenarios, and we've taken the minus EUR 20 million as the baseline for the financial ambition that you've seen also before.

On that note, I think it's due time now that we step into that financial ambition and look at more in detail, how do we get from where we are today to the more than EUR 175 million of normalized EBIT in 2028, and Linde will gladly take you through those ingredients.

Yes. Well, the last part of today's presentation, and of course, as CFO, in my view, the best part of the presentation. No, just kidding. The financial ambition. We have heard today our different stories on our strategy for the different platforms for e-commerce Platforms and for Mail. And for these 3 segments, that combined brings us to our financial ambition.

So let me talk through those financial ambitions on total, but also per segment. But before doing that, good to mention, like highlighted in the beginning of the presentation, as of 2026, we are going to split the e-commerce -- the current Parcel segments into e-commerce and Platforms. And for your convenience in the appendix of the capital market slide deck, you will find a good reconciliation on revenue and normalized EBIT from old to the new structure.

So that could help you in your modeling. Lastly, in this chapter, we want to highlight some simplifications in dividend policy and in our reporting cycle. I will come back to that in a bit. Let me start with our overall PostNL ambition. Clearly, we have 4 domains where we want to express our ambition for 2028. To start with revenue. For revenue, we have, following our strategy, as we have outlined today, we have our ambition to get to over EUR 4 billion by 2028.

That brings us to a CAGR of 5% since 2024. This is driven by the e-commerce volume growth by our accelerating growth in the platform business, the ongoing decline in Mail, as Pim just outlined and obviously, overall price increases. When moving to normalized EBIT for 2028. We aim for a significant step-up towards EUR 175 million.

Of course, that is driven by the revenue as just explained, but I will show you later on the exact building blocks, how we get there. And then on the cash flow side, we aim for a cash flow -- free cash flow over EUR 75 million by 2028, whereby in the first year, so 2026, we expect it to still be negative and then starting to increase towards EUR 75 million in 2028. This obviously follows our increase in normalized EBIT, but also includes our CapEx or our continued CapEx investments in IT, in sustainability and our network at a level of approximately EUR 150 million per year as of 2026.

And lastly, going forward, we want to put more focus on our return on invested capital. Our ambition is to increase from a current ROIC of 3.4% per 2024 towards a ROIC of over 12%. Also here, this is a significant step-up and I will come back to that later as well.

Finally, good to mention that for the current year, for 2025, our outlook remains unchanged. Let me go through the segments one by one based on which this total ambition is built up. Starting with e-commerce. For e-commerce market, as mentioned, it's about from volume to value strategy. We assume the market growth to be 5% on an annual basis with a limited market share loss, as Pim also mentioned following our yield measures.

Looking at revenue and starting with that ambition over there, we aim for a mid-single-digit growth, showing our impact of our segmented customer approach as just outlined and, of course, general price increases here as well. Moving on to our normalized EBIT margin. There, we expect the normalized EBIT margin to grow from 2.5% in 2024 towards 6.5% in 2028, driven by the margin engine I've explained earlier on and how the exact building blocks from the 2.5% towards the 6.5%, are built up, I will come to in the next slide.

As you can see on the left chart, the margins increased gradually over time with the yield measures gradually kicking in over time. And finally, looking at the ROIC, with this performance improvement for e-commerce, this should result in a gradual increase towards double-digit ROIC for this segment. Of course, it's interesting to have a look how the 2.5% step -- how the step-up from 2.5% in 2024 to 6.5% is built up. Here on the slide, you see the bridge, how we get there, starting at the top with our positive contribution of our volume growth, both in domestic and international volume.

And then clearly, secondly, a very important contributor to the 6.5%, our yield measures. Like I explained earlier on with our toolbox and the margin engine elements. These are significant and are only partially offset by a negative mix effect being the mix between international and the domestic volumes. As said, this is a main driver for our step-up. Then the third building block are our operational costs. I referred to in the -- earlier on in the presentation on our cost savings initiatives and using our network optimally.

Cost-saving efforts in our network really contribute here. But also, we still have investments in sustainability, reduced physical labor and digital capabilities. as, of course, that will be offset that cost savings. And finally, we have, of course, a very important continued organic cost increase building block. We anticipate continuing inflationary pressure at the same level as 2024. This puts obviously significant pressure on our margin development.

Then moving to our Platform segment, where we aim to capture international growth through our asset-light model. Zooming here on our ambition for this segment, we start here with revenue as well. Our ambition on revenue growth for platforms is to become double-digit revenue growth. via our focus on accelerating intra-European growth as well as the growth of our Asian platforms and MyParcel.

Then moving on to the normalized EBIT margin. Here, our ambition is to restore from the current 2.6% in 2024 towards approximately 3% in 2028. As you can see on the chart on the left, there are investments in our network still needed from the sales and marketing capabilities, like just explained by Tijs, they will put pressure on the margin in 2025 and 2026, after which it will move up again.

Given the low level -- given the inherent nature of this business model of low level of invested capital, this is the segment with the highest ROIC by 2028. Then moving on to the Mail segment. Pim just extensively elaborated on our bandwidth on normalized EBIT for the downside and the upside. Good to reiterate that our overall ambition as well as the ambition here for the Mail segment is based on the downside scenario. Looking at our ambition for revenue, we expect a low single-digit revenue decline. This is based on a continued volume decline of approximately 7% in the years up to 2027, and a decline of 10% in 2028 coming from the move to D+3.

Combined with general price increases, the revenue is then expected to result in this low single-digit decline. Then moving on to the normalized EBIT margin. Margin is to be expected to be negative in 2025 to 2027, also, as you can see on the chart on the left. The execution of our road map will overall result in a return towards a margin of approximately close to zero, just above breakeven as of 2028.

With all of this performance for the Mail segment, this brings us to a ROIC of around 0% for the Mail segment. This is clearly below the WACC, and that is also supporting the story of a PIM, we just heard. Compensation for the net cost for the USO is necessary to get a return that covers at least the cost of capital, which is currently for the Mail segment, 6.5%. If we summarize these different ambitions per segment from a normalized EBIT perspective, you clearly see that the biggest step comes from e-commerce. And maybe good to add a few words on PostNL Other. To phrase that simple, that are the head office costs. There, we expect it to remain stable towards 2028, around a level of minus EUR 15 million to EUR 20 million.

Let's have a look at our CapEx and our strategic investments to drive this transformation. As said, we continue to invest in our network, in our IT, our digital capabilities and, of course, sustainability. Here on the chart, in the middle, you see the vast majority is invested from a CapEx point of view on IT, but also on other elements, as mentioned on the slide. Our CapEx, as said, is expected to increase towards EUR 150 million per year as of 2026.

Good to note that next to CapEx, we also have lease additions. That's what we use for our fleet and our buildings. So that is on top of the CapEx you see here on the slide. Let's have a look at the translation of our normalized EBIT into the free cash flow for 2028. Starting at the top with our ambition normalized EBIT of EUR 175 million. I won't go through them one by one, but let me highlight a few. To start with our depreciation and amortization.

Given our investments, continued investments, we expect the depreciation and amortization to increase with approximately EUR 10 million per year. Good to note that this excludes the one-off impairment, which we recognized in the second quarter of this year. Then you see, of course, the CapEx and lease, I just referred to the CapEx of the investments, which I showed on the earlier slide. And then we only see a limited additional investment in working capital coming from our step-up in revenue growth. And lastly, good to comment on the last line item, interest paid and income tax.

Our tax cash out is positively impacted, so less cash out in 2028 for around EUR 50 million coming from liquidation losses. And we projected to have these liquidation losses up until 2029. So even beyond the horizon of this ambition.

Let's have a look at the ROIC. As said in the beginning, we want to put more focus on our return on invested capital. And why? To drive efficient capital allocation and to ensure long-term value creation for our shareholders. We want to focus more on ROIC going forward. We target a significant improvement in our ROIC coming from 3.4% in 2024 towards over 12% in 2028. The 3.4% in 2024 is based on an invested capital of approximately EUR 800 million. Where does it come from? Obviously, the step-up comes from our ambition on normalized EBIT, combined with our strategic capital allocation.

Driven the step-up is obviously as explained earlier on, knowing that for the Mail segment, we have a 0% ROIC. The step-up is driven by e-commerce and platforms. Then zooming in on our capital allocation with our aim to holding on to be properly financed. We have a clear funnel. We start with investing first and foremost, always in our own organic growth, being investments in our network, but also our out-of-home strategy, as explained earlier on and very important, our IT capabilities.

After that, we explore inorganic growth opportunities, all in line with our strategic criteria. We focus here on partnerships in our growth domains rather than large acquisition given the -- to limit the size of the required capital. And the remaining cash flow, looking at 3 and 4 should be sufficient to pay out our dividends based on the performance -- based on our performance and to optimize our financing structure in the end.

Talking about that financing structure, let's have a look at that. Our financing structure is built to provide flexibility on our maturities on our instruments and on the fixed and floating interest rates. On the left side, you see our composition of our current debt profile. It consists of various lease liabilities, 2 bonds, 1 maturing in 2026 and 1 maturing in 2031, both with a face value of EUR 300 million. And you also see the most recent Schuldschein loan of EUR 100 million.

Secondly, you see our revolving credit facility is fully undrawn of EUR 200 million at the bottom. Important to understand the pillars of our financial framework. We aim for a leverage below 2.0 with positive consolidated equity and applying strict cash management. We assume that we can maintain an investment-grade credit rating. And lastly, good to mention that, obviously, we are continuously monitoring capital markets to assure optimal financing structure. And that brings me to the simplifications, which we intend to apply as of 2026.

Let me start with our dividend policy. We -- our intention is to change the methodology towards from other comprehensive income towards normalized profit. And why do we do that? Because our current pension plan, we no longer have significant pension implications on our other comprehensive income. And net profit is more in line with peers and a more simple metric to follow. In line with peers, we also decided to stop interim dividends going forward and apply a different dividend once per year, as said, in line with our peers.

This adjusted dividend policy will be tabled at the next AGM in April 2026 as a nonvoting item with the intention to apply it as of 2026. Then the second change we want to mention -- want to announce is our change on the reporting cycle. As of 2026, we are going to run a more lean reporting cycle, with the Q1 and Q3 trading update only and for the half year and full year, a full reporting like you are used today. And why do we do that? The vast majority of our performance is achieved in the fourth quarter and that explains for us a good reason to simplify and focus also internally on the right quarters and the right performance in the right time of the year.

With that, I've come to the end of this financial chapter. Let me now hand back to Pim to some closing remarks, I would say.

Yes. So one slide of closing remarks before we take a break and then get back to Q&A. I think for us, and thanks, Linde, for explaining the financials here. It's really a crucial step and a new chapter in PostNL's journey, this new breakthrough 2028 strategy. And of course, it will be all about execution. But for us, it's crucial to see that change in momentum to see the drive and the energy towards the strategic goals that we have set already. So really convinced that we can shape the future of PostNL in the direction that we just shared with you with all the people that are around us.

So a lot to do clearly, but I think the logic of what we try to do, the coherence of the strategy around the business segments, hopefully has been clear to all of you. What we then strive to do is, of course, to deliver sustainable returns for our shareholders and value for our customers, employees and society at large. We are a leading player, and we expect to remain a leading player that drives the change in this e-commerce space.

These new strategies for us is strategic turning point and the new program breakthrough '28 will give and drive the financial ambition that drives the significant improvements in our financial KPIs, as just explained by Linde. It's a market where there's GDP revenue plus revenue growth driven by e-commerce and commercial initiatives, we will get to the EUR 175 million by 2028. That step-up predominantly comes from the e-commerce segment, as you've seen, Platforms will drive growth and drive return on invested capital and is exciting from also a valuation point of view.

We have a clear road map on what to do with Mail whilst keeping a floor under the results of Mail, so that the equity story can be leveraged on the e-commerce and Platform growth segments. And as we've done before, and we'll continue to do so is to remain very disciplined in our investment approach, driving incremental returns on invested capital, whilst also putting effort on the innovation areas that we discussed in the beginning of the presentation.

So all in all, we're convinced that we will make the changes required to get to the breakthrough ambitions driven by the North Star that we've set -- we already build on the momentum on those strategic changes. So for now, thank you. Let's have a short break. And after the break, we've got all the time we need to follow up with Q&A.

So thanks so far.

Welcome back for the last part of today's Capital Markets Day. For the next around 45 minutes, Pim and Linde will be available to answer your questions. We will start with questions from the people with us in Nieuwegein and for analysts and investors that are with us online, please use the chat functionality in the webcast to ask your questions. We are happy to take them here as well.

So who is ready for the first question? I want to choose. Please go ahead.

[indiscernible] from KBC Securities. And thanks for taking my questions, and thanks for the nice presentation today. We'll try to limit myself to 2 and maybe a follow-up here. But the first question is on the -- what I now should call the e-commerce. You discussed, of course, a lot the yield measures that you try to do and the discussions that you have with your customers to kind of smooth this parcel volume pattern from next day to best day, as I could say.

You already kind of announced this at the beginning of this year that you were planning to do this, and you are already working on this. Can you maybe tell us how this is going and what the perception has been with some of your big customers, maybe also with different styles of customers and how they are looking at this? And then maybe following up on this also, we've seen the margin outlook and the phasing of the margin outlook for the e-commerce segment. It kind of grows steadily this year and next year, but then there is a big catch-up in 2027.

Can you maybe explain what drives this catch up? That would be a small follow-up. And then just on the USO, we, of course, have seen that you have requested to withdrawal from the USO after your request for remediation was denied. Can you maybe clarify how easy you can withdraw from this USO obligation or what the conditions are there or what they need to visit or -- that would be my questions, please.

Of course. Thank you. Shall I take the first one?

And second?

And the second, yes. sure. Yes, first of all, your question on the e-commerce and our, let's say, experiences so far with the yield measures. Yes, you're correct. We have started with that already earlier in the year. And the first experiences are positive. So far, we do not see large let's say, client attrition coming from these negotiations. And overall, this is also seen as a value driver as we tried to explain today for the whole e-commerce system. So also for the customers.

And with that story, so that it's a win-win for the whole ecosystem that is well received and something which we get back. And yes, of course, that brings us a bit -- or brings me a bit to your second question on the phasing for what you referred to the EBIT margin development for the e-commerce segment. Of course, this is something with the yield measures which we are taking, which is not something that happens from one day to the other.

Of course, you have contracts which have different durations. So that's not something which tomorrow is solved. So what you see in the gradual path towards the 6.5% is that step-by-step that happens in 2025 and 2026. And then you have more -- well, all these investments in this story from next day to best day to have all the checkouts like we discussed in the pilots, et cetera, and then you will get that kick in to make that happen. So it requires some investments and therefore, time to make that step up. And then the last...

Third question maybe on the USO to simplify it. How does that work, asking relief from USO? And how is the process then going? Look, the USO obligation is assigned to us in postal law. So it's not a specific contract. It is just PostNL will do this, and that's why we now ask for relief from that obligation. We've set a 2 months deadline for the minister to consider this, and he either can say yes or no. If he says yes, then there is a different landscape going forward. You should then start a tender process to see who is willing to do this universal service as it is defined in the marketplace.

In the meantime, PostNL will be required to continue doing the service. But through a tender process, you can obviously create a different setup of the universal service that could lead to a structural and good solution going forward. So it basically changes the approach from discussions in parliament to a discussion on tender specs, and that could help maybe changing the dynamics towards a USO that is financially economically viable. But in the meantime, we will have to do this under the conditions that are set.

To understand our view on game plan, I would say, look at the entire process from already 2, 3 years back and what we've done and taken all the steps in the sequence that we've taken them. And this one was clearly a big step. We've been doing the universal service for over 200 years. But we truly believe that what is currently on the table is just not possible, not feasible for us to continue. And that's why we've now taken that step to say relieve us of that obligation. And that's why we say the ball is really in the court of the minister now to say yes or no to this or to come up with a structural solution that makes the USO viable. And if not, then we'll take mitigating actions ourselves.

Okay. Then Michel, you choose. What do you want, left or right?

This is Frank Claassen of Degroof Petercam. I've got some financial questions. I will ask them one by one. First of all, on your leverage, you have the target to be below 2. But with the negative free cash flow for this and also next year, if I do some back of the envelope, you may be higher maybe than 2. So -- and how -- are you then looking at your dividend? Will you pay your dividend anyway if you are above 2? Or how are you -- what are your thoughts on that?

You want to do it one by one? Yes. Well, to answer to that, yes, so your back of the envelope calculation is correct in that sense. But our dividend policy is about our aim to be properly financed. So it's not the case that if it's a bit higher than 2.0 that we won't pay any dividends. It is about that we want to be properly financed and taking into considerations our business performance and also like we have just heard all the developments in the Mail segment that takes -- we look at it as a whole picture and not just in isolation for that. So we still have the intention to pay dividend for 2025.

Okay. Then on Mail, you have this plan of cost savings. My question is, do you also need to have restructuring costs to get to those savings?

No real restructuring cost. Of course, there are investments that make the changes that we need to make, and we are preparing for those. So that's in terms of preparation costs, some switching costs. But we believe by doing this gradually and preparing now for D+2 for July 2026 and over time to D+3 by 2028. We can use natural attrition and charge to change the working packages of our people in order to do so without big restructuring cash outs.

And then the costs related to the change are really the preparation, the switching, the time it will take you to get to the productivity levels in the new network. And those are, of course, taken into account in the margin profiles of the segments that Linde showed to you.

Okay. And final question on the CapEx. The step-up, I noticed that it was really mainly related to IT. IT is the biggest book. But what is exactly IT? What are you going to invest in? Is this AI tools? Or what should we think of?

Yes. So the vast majority is -- and also that came back in our story, our DevOps. So basically, all the different developments of certain digital tools, that is what we invest in our IT capabilities. So also towards that whole journey of our AI first, that are elements where you can think of our IT investments.

I think maybe in addition, if I may, if you look at those 10 strategic priorities, then those do require a fair amount of DevOps requirements. So if we want to be more differentiated, if you want to create tiered propositions, you need to be able to change your pricing strategies on customer segment levels. That requires change. Also, the new service offerings and propositions requires change to our touch points to our app, to our digital channels.

So those elements, we encompass all in that 10 strategic priorities program that leads to DevOps, that leads to initiatives features that will then help us to make the change on those commercial engines and network efficiencies that were discussed.

Marc?

[indiscernible] Maybe to come back on the USO thing that Michel also asked about. So the government has to then come up with the tender. In the meantime, you have to deliver. But what if nobody shows up, that can deliver the USO, which is quite logical. Can the tender then be ongoing, ongoing and you still have to get going on the Mail side? And linked to that you mentioned, yes. But in the meantime, you can already maybe drive the USO with a different setup.

Does it mean that if nothing happens, I think you already alluded to it in your press release that you can already make the changes as you proposed earlier this year. Is that indeed how we should look at it at the graph that you show with the minus 20 as a floor? Is that based on the government proposal or your own road map? Can you help me a bit with that?

Yes, of course. There's a few questions in this question, I think. So let's take it flex also. It's more than a relevant topic. So look, the tender approach, it's not been done before. So just to be clear, this is a process where we will need to figure out how it works. It's an obligation set in postal law. We asked to be relieved from that obligation, and now it's up to the minister to determine. If there's nobody willing to do it, it needs to be retendered. And indeed, if those conditions are not satisfying to the market players, you'll need to set up a different tender. But then that could also drive the discussion in parliament but what do we actually need from a universal service.

And how could that lead to a change in concept from what we are currently looking at. At some point, we truly believe that we cannot be held towards these obligations if we structurally move towards those steps. We have started this dialogue already years ago. The draft postal laws from 2020, the current postal laws from 2029, we've done proposals.

All the research has been done. ACM says this is unsustainable. Market players understand this needs to change. Consumers and customers alike, I think there is a logic to it. So at some point, if there's no change, we will then make the change ourselves with the expectations that we're allowed to make those changes even though the law has not been changed. But that depends on all the steps we've taken up to that point.

Well, hopefully, we won't get to that and get to a solution that works through the dialogue, but we're not going to do this against these obligations because the impact is just too big, which means that if we have to, we'll make decisions that reduce the net cost ourselves. We can get to the lower end of the mail bandwidth through various reasons.

So what we've done as a crucial step also before this Capital Markets Day is if we really want to get a PostNL equity story, of course, we need to improve our e-commerce proposition and expand margins there. We need to have attractive growth opportunities, which we have in the platform space, but we also need to secure a safe floor under the Mail business.

Otherwise, if that continues to go down, the other side can go up and you still have no story, right? So we looked at it, how can we get there various ways, either through postal law changes that work for us or by other scenarios. And that's all in all, why we say you can take that lower end as robust enough for your outlook because we believe we can get there through various potential scenarios. And also means, by the way, sorry, that on that note, the USO will still be negative. This is clearly not good enough. So we'll certainly strive for a better outcome than that orange line because we truly believe we should not be able to be forced to do this against negative net costs. But the baseline is the minus 20 line.

Yes. And also to make it very clear, then that is -- the scenarios without any subsidy or...

Yes. The lower end is with that. If you want to go to the blue line, kind of the upside, there we have assumed the net cost compensation for the net costs that are actually there. So we're not asking more, but just asking the net costs that are there to be compensated, then you are at the blue line.

Okay. That's also good to know, yes.

So the delta between those lines is then roughly the net cost.

Clear. And then maybe also linked to that, the ROCE story. On the Mail, you basically say the EBIT is 0, but there's a bit more to the ROCE than just in EBIT. So should we -- because I also saw, I think, the WACC of 6.5% you're using for the Mail business. Is that then the ROCE should be north of that if we assume the lines that you showed for the Mail business. Is that still the case? Or will the ROCE be no less than the 6.5%? And should you give it back to the government anyway?

Yes, I said, we cannot really give it back. But let's say, that's why we said, let's say, if we get to a 0 margin and a return on invested capital of 0, then at least we've secured the floor. But then still, it's economically, of course, nonviable. You're not making up your cost of capital. That's why we say we need to strive for more because you cannot really sustain this business if you're not able to at least cover your cost of capital, the 6.5% is what external parties have said as being the WACC of the Mail side of things. So if we end up with the orange line, we will economically be value destructive, although there is a floor to it. And then on PostNL level, you can look at the other elements to say it's value creating because there, we will exceed the cost of capital. If we were to use the blue line, including net cost compensation, then you will get to the level where our return on invested capital covers your WACC. And that should also be the ambition level, but for now, let's look at a floor being the orange line.

Okay. That's very helpful. Maybe because we only discuss Mail, can I drop one other question...

[indiscernible] and then we go back to my screen and then we'll go back to you again.

Yes, I want to go back to the e-commerce business. You mentioned from next day to best day and the different checkout options that you can pick and choose a day and maybe a discount or something else. Is that something that's easily implementable and does it really help in your yield discussion with your client? Because yes, they have the benefit maybe to get more volumes out. You have the benefit of more equally spread. But yes, I can imagine it's a discussion that maybe the benefit for you is a bit higher than for them. So does it, in the end, really lead to a higher yield? Is it something -- do you already have showcases that you did this with the client? Because I haven't seen it yet and check the stuff out, so maybe it's new.

Well, we wouldn't do this if this wouldn't work, of course. But maybe to explain a bit to you how it creates value for both parties. So it's not just for PostNL. So there, it is helping us in our yield measures. But in those conversations, and that is what we try to explain in our ecosystem by making it more from best day -- sorry, from next day to best day, it helps in our equal flow, but that's not just the equal flow on our side, on PostNL side, but that's also for our customer. And knowing that the consumer also is willing, as we have seen on the slides, is really accepting or seems to be open for best day delivery. That is an opportunity because that not just helps us, but also the customers.

So really, it's about telling that story and taking them along that, I would say, joint responsibility that we have the joint responsibility to change that ecosystem. And that is something, yes, that will take time. But yes, you see that customers are open to that as long as the combined story is clear and also the win-win in both situations is helpful. And yes, it helps because if you bring the volume to a better day, well, maybe not on the price, you may have, well, let's say, discount on your price, but it also lowers your costs. So the combination of price and the cost, what it takes to make it happen brings you to the yield measures, which helps in the margin development. So yes, if that gives a bit of color on your...

Okay. And I think I have a question of Henk from online. And that is a follow-up question on that one. And I read it for him. One of the key elements of the yield improvement ambition is the next day, best day initiative. A few questions on that. You are claiming your research shows that consumers are more prepared to wait for the delivery of their ordered goods than before. Have you also looked into what is driving that?

Yes, of course. Because otherwise, you don't know what type of solution you need. So it's all about consumer control. So they want to receive the parcel when it's convenient for them through the channel that is most convenient for them. And that is all about them having control from selection of products to checkout to delivery options. And we clearly can follow that and can test that also in our app. So we know it's all about first time right, not only for us, but also for them because, let's say, if we all start spending money in weekends for it to be delivered, whilst on Tuesday, the days are with the highest traffic jams and most people being in the office, it doesn't seem that logical. And that's also why consumers truly believe that it is also beneficial for them to be able to make those choices on a moment in time that fits them best, and that's what will drive the change.

And do you think that the marketplace or the web shop where consumers are ordering does make a difference in this preference?

I think there, it's important and the arguments that we believe we have towards them is that you can clearly see if you offer consumers better checkout options, your Net Promoter Score will increase. You'll get to the happier customer side of things, which are lifetime value 5x higher than others. So that's one. Clearly, they know, as we know, that not all of their customers are equally contributing to their margin profile. So why not making a segmentation there as well? And your consumer that spends 5 times a week where you make your most money from, it could be very logical to give him or her as preferred option next day.

But one that comes back every other month, you could say your standard will be best day being Wednesday, Tuesday, you can still change it, but then you get a different proposition with a different price point. So those elements we've seen in research. We have started the pilots that Linde talked about to make them also work in real life. Why is this quite easy to explain and not that easy in real life because you need to amend checkout. You need to change the data flows, you need to have the ability to redirect. That's also why some of the margin step-up elements take some time to mature. And that, again, is the answer to the 2027 step-up question.

Yes. And I do think that, that also answers the last part of Henk's question. He asked in your presentation, you also said that your clients may want something in return. And could this take a bite out of your margins or the expected savings more than compensating this? And I think you have just said that...

Of course, as we said, we want to create a different value distribution in the entire chain. So there where we can take cost out in the chain, everyone benefits, but it could also be a different split of price increases versus efficiency gains. So there will be definitely a value also for our clients. And of course, how we split the value that will be part of what we will do when we execute these plans. But we think we've taken realistic assumptions for the contribution of this yield management into the plans that we shared.

Okay. And then I think one last question on this topic from Henk on the concentration of the top 3 clients in Parcels in the Netherlands currently at 34%. You expect this to increase to maybe mid-40s, at least it will go up. How big is this threat for Parcels in your opinion?

Well, it's not necessarily a threat if you are able to differentiate propositions also with those bigger clients. And also those bigger clients need to recognize that they play a role in an ecosystem where we have the capacity. And they need to understand that they need to contribute to better working environment, investments in innovation and what have you. So they will need to understand that they need to contribute to higher yields as well. So let's do that smart and let's do that together, which creates a more efficient e-commerce chain. That's probably the most logical and rational way to look at this. So that's what we're also pursuing with them.

Okay. Henk, I hope this is sufficient for you at this moment in time. Let's go to Stefano now for the next question here.

Stefano Toffano, ABN AMRO ODDO. So first question, I hope this doesn't sound as too critical. But if we take -- if we look at where e-commerce and Platforms is guided or targeted at least normalized EBIT in 2028, and we compare that with, let's say, the past decade, excluding the 2 big COVID years, one might think this is, well, a very, very big transformation over the next few years. One might also think perhaps Parcels has been mismanaged a little bit in the past. So I guess the question is, why of some of these measures haven't we seen that before?

Well, I think that is not that difficult to explain. I think if you look at the margin profile that we want to get back to is a margin profile that we've had in the past before. What has changed is some of the elements in market circumstances that drive the change and also tech developments make some of the changes now easier than before.

So let's look at the elements that have deteriorated margin profile. That has been, first and foremost, significantly higher inflationary pressures than in the past decade as of 2022 at a point in time where price points for that year were already fixed. And as we shared with you, the delta between organic cost up and prices out has been cumulatively more than EUR 150 million negative impact. So for an industry to absorb this and to translate that to a different commercial strategy, it takes time specifically on the back of a black swan event like Ukraine war was with the impact that it had. So let's not forget those external market circumstances when you make that comparison.

Well, is there a point that we could have been better? Yes, maybe there is. And that's why we now say we step up the pace on performance management. We step up the pace on how to differentiate the sales approach much more than before, which was maybe a few years ago, not necessarily that important because the network was there, the unit economics were still at that pace that every other item led to more profitability given the capacity being there.

Next to that now, next to the inflationary pressure, you've seen that client concentration accelerate because of the introduction of the big Asian platforms. The platformization has led to a shift from SMEs to platforms to, and it is time now to adjust your commercial approaches to those changes. But if you've been successful in a next Olympic era by training methods that get you the gold, it will take a bit of time for you to say, okay, we really need to change this around to a different training style, a different approach to use and to work against the competition that will be there next time around. That just takes time. You could say too long. We will say we're stepping up the pace now that momentum is there and the capabilities are there now, and the conviction of the team and also of the clients is there to make those changes now. So that would be my answer on a very fair question. So don't worry about it.

Maybe another question on the value propositions per Customer segment. So I certainly understand quite a few of these, let's say, propositions that you have. But maybe, for example, the one on add-ons on digital services, what gives you the confidence that these do not get commoditized away in a few years' time? To give you an example, there are other countries where if you go on a marketplace and a checkout and they provide 15 different solutions. If you look at the prices that consumers pay for these solutions over the past 2, 3 years, they have dramatically dropped at the cost to the provider and to the benefit of the consumer. So my question here is, do you maybe assess also how sustainable these are over the next few years as competition increases?

Yes. Of course, we looked at those. I don't think these examples are because we expect consumers to pay more, but we truly can prove that by adjusting customer journeys, by using the data that we have and data flows, we can increase the Net Promoter Scores. We can increase the conversion of our clients' growth expectations. And that has a value, and that could be triggers that make us able to make the changes that we're just talking about. The biggest change will not become of the monetary element of those elements in and by itself. It will be by changing the propositions and leveraging what we see happening in the chain to make our customers more successful that leads to a different value proposition, but could distinguish us from others in this chain that might be less able to do so. So that's the way I would look at it. It's not individually the most important driver behind the step-up in margin profile.

If I can squeeze one last in regarding your dividend. Why hold -- I mean, your -- the way you phrase your dividend policy is very flexible. So I think that's a very smart move. But given all the process that PostNL is going through over the next few years, why hold on to the intention to pay out dividends anyways?

Well, yes, maybe, of course, well, thanks for considering that smart. But I think that is really how we look at it. So we really take all these elements, our current performance, the developments in the Mail segment, but also the change towards net profit. Yes, we still have the intention to continue to do that. And obviously, every year, we assess that whether it is feasible, but this is really how it works. And we will take a careful balance between the different elements in that to decide what to do or not. And that's why we keep on repeating that we have the intention to pay dividends also going forward.

Let's go to Wijnand, please.

Wijnand Heineken, Independent Minds. When you discussed the transformation of the normalized EBIT into free cash flow, you mentioned that there would be a positive impact from liquidation losses on the tax item. So I was wondering whether you could give a bit more color on that about the timing and how sizable that will be for the EUR 75 million or more than EUR 75 million you said within your ambition for 2028 because I got the impression that the main benefits would be back-end loaded into the time frame of your new ambition. And then maybe one just for me preventing misunderstanding things about Mail outlook well, the base scenario is clear. You came up with the orange line minus EUR 20 million, but also about 0 for '28. So I was wondering for the normalized EBIT in '28 over EUR 175 million. What is there anticipated for Mail? Is that the 0 or the minus EUR 20 million?

Yes. Let me start with your last question on the mail. As what you could see in the line, the red line and looking at 2028, you see that being above 0. So it's not 0, but it's slightly above 0. So that is a response to that. And for the liquidation losses, yes, I don't go into detail in that sense. But as mentioned, we have EUR 15 million impact by 2028 for that cash flow. And we also expect it to be applicable for 2029. So yes.

Those are the bigger years and depends a bit on where they originate from, and they still originate from, let's say, the way we exited German and Italian operations. And also, I think in the annual accounts, you can find something about the absolute size of those liquidation losses. And otherwise, we can follow up on that offline as well.

Okay. Then we go to Martin. Next to [ Rayna ].

Martin Plavec, [indiscernible]. Firstly, a couple of questions centered around platform. You've been pretty clear about your revenue growth going forward for e-commerce and for Mail, e-commerce mid-single digits, so let's say, 5% decline in Mail of minus 2%. More directional for platform of double digit. But then if I still end up with 5% overall growth, that indicates that platform is presumed to grow by 15%. And even if I take the 15%, I'm hardly reaching the EUR 4 billion. Is that more or less correct?

Well, the calculation you are doing obviously also depends on the weight of the different segments. So it's not exactly like that, I would say.

But it's definitely the case that, let's say, the pace of growth in platforms will significantly outpace the growth in the e-commerce space. And that's by different levers. So one we discussed being cross-border grows faster than domestic. That's one. Then we're opening up new line hauls, new trade lanes in Europe. That's what Tijs Reumerman explained from the [indiscernible]. So there's big growth opportunities in Europe that leads to that higher growth, also driven by the investments we'll make in those new line hauls in marketing and sales approaches.

Then we've got our expansion plan from Asia, where we're currently relying to a large extent from deal flows from China to Europe. We're opening up different countries as well in this model from different Asian countries to Europe. And those elements together accelerate the growth to beyond the 10%. So it's going to be double-digit growth on platforms. Likewise, on the -- MyParcel side, which is for now predominantly a Dutch operation, we expect to expand that to other European countries on the back of where Spring is already active and already have access to certain type of customers that fit well within the -- MyParcel proposition that will further accelerate growth.

You already answered half of my second question because what do you reckon is your added value in your Spring business? Because everybody is focusing on cross-border. I see...

The Ability to the IT network and the proximity towards the customers. So being present in 15 different countries and having the ability to create network solutions through supply chains by adding components of others in a smooth journey and giving the insights from the entire data flow to it. And that's been the success of Spring also over the past years. Let's not forget that Spring's growth rate on revenue has been already above 10% over the last periods in time, predominantly also in Europe. So their competitive edge is really in the proximity towards the customer, the ease of use and the insights that we have on the back of those 230 operators that we use to create the best possible supply chain solution for the type of clients that Spring serves. And that is what drives -- has driven the growth in the past and expected to drive future growth as well.

And then talking about MyParcel because you mentioned you are in the sweet spot of business. There's another name mentioned in the Sendcloud also in the sweet spot, but they are independent. They can even offer services from competitors like DHL or Geopost or whatever. What's your advantage over Sendcloud...

Doing the same. So they are multicarrier. They are offering solutions of our carriers. They just deliver the solution that is required by the SMEs that they serve. And they are independent. And they just help consumers or, I would say, SME customers to go cross-border, to go multi-carrier, to make a choice depending on the consignment that needs to be sent. Is it actually cargo? Is it something from the Netherlands to Germany? Who has the best proposition there? What are the API connections that they need to follow that throughout the journey? That's what they do. And they definitely do not push orange PostNL. They find a solution that works for the customer demand that they get. So in that sense, they're comparable to Sendcloud, I would say also comparable in terms of size, probably more profitable than Sendcloud, not probably.

And then lastly, regarding your APMs, you want to triple the number. Firstly, there was already a big fight about real estate places where you can install those APMs. So why do you think you can triple that amount? And secondly, can you also give a breakdown how many you will install in the Netherlands and how many you will install in Belgium?

I don't have -- the last part, I don't have the breakdown yet. So of course, we're more mature in the Netherlands right now, and we will go into Belgium. I don't know by part how much of the 3,600 will be in Belgium. The question is more about, okay, how much and how quick can you deploy those parcel lockers then. There, I think we have the benefit through our retail locations and through the fact that we are the ones that allocate postal codes that we know in communities where to go if we want to find place. Of course, there's a whole range of retailers that you can go to and make arrangements for under which conditions they are willing to give you the square meters to set up that.

So this is the way we planned it based on how many retailers are available, what is the closest proximity within 5 to 7 minutes driving a cycling distance for a consumer, how much do we need, how much reach would there be? How much can fall off of the funnel to get to the 3,600, and we think we can get there? But it's, let's say, the flywheel needs to work from a checkout to consumer point of view. And the other flywheel needs to work as well that is how can you accelerate the pace to deploy new APLs to get to the 20% of volume being delivered out of home, what we expect it will be in 2028. But there's also ways to look at partnership models, more open models, working together with retailers. So that is what we think we can get to.

Okay. I have one from online. And this is the last one from online that we will take. So for all the people online, I'm really afraid that we cannot answer all your questions, but we make sure we follow up. So one from here and then you guys can fight for the last one here. You can do that while I'm asking the question from Fahad from Jefferies. And that question is, are you concerned about your non-USO network in Mail being opened up to competition or potentially having price return caps on the non-USO side of the business?

No. It's a simple answer. If you look at the, let's say, -- we have one network that obviously sorts and distributes both USO and non-USO mail. And because that network is dimensioned because of the USO obligations and through net cost, we are where we are being negative. We don't need this network set up for our commercial clients, and that's also why we say either get rid of the obligation or pay for the net cost. Could there be -- there are already tariff regulations. Could there be a return on sales cap? Could be, we're at 0, and we're still making net cost. So yes, if somebody wants to set a returns cap on 8%, it's really not the real discussion that we should be having. The discussion is what type of universal service do you want who's to pay for it. And if you don't want to pay for it, reduce the obligations so that we can define the network that we need to service our commercial clients. That is the way to look at it. So I'm not worried about those type of consequences given where we are.

Thank you, Pim. Then I think we do 2 last questions from here. One for [ Sef ] now, one for Mark and...

And maybe one last one for Mark. So let let's round up just 3 questions.

Short questions, right?

Then I'll start -- because this is a rather -- that's a brief one, although it depends on the answer. You mentioned you have 10 strategic projects. Are there a few of which you call these are real must wins or which otherwise -- which do you regard to be the most important one?

Well, I think, quite frankly, they're all 10 are crucial. They all contribute to the strategic objectives of the 3 segments. And you cannot say, let's forget about compliance, let's focus on network efficiency. So they all need to drive the change hand-in-hand. And some have more impact on NPS. Some have more impact on profitability margin expansion. Others define your license to operate. So I cannot make a choice. They don't equally contribute to the 4 goals, but they contribute differently to the 4 goals. And that's why we run it as a big change program. And also that will enable us to drive performance management culture even better in the company as well by getting them on our desks on a highly frequent basis to understand are we taking the right initiatives, the right epics, right features? Can we see that we get to the results we need to get to? That is how we will manage those 10 as being equally important.

Sorry about the answer, but that's how we look at it.

Okay. Then my last question. I think on the Spring and the MyParcel business, you mentioned a margin of 3% for the combination, is that correct? That was still including the investments you need to make in building the platform. But maybe if things mature, what kind of margins should the business be able to make?

Well, I think in the end, for a business like that, approximately 3% margin is for such an asset-light model quite normal. Actually, the value is like we explained also in the ROIC, obviously, so that we have a high return on invested capital. So yes, we've seen the investments and you see the investments getting in 2025, 2026. And obviously, they will -- well, I would say, taper down as long as it matures. So that could give some direction. But it's in the basis already a healthy margin profile.

But it's maybe more for the Spring business, but if you look at the MyParcel marketplace business that could have a way higher margin. Could you maybe give a bit of an idea what we should think?

It is higher in that part than in Spring, but the blended answer is exactly the answer that Linde has given. And over time, we'll see whether or not there could be even more potential. Some of you already said it's quite ambitious. We believe we can get to the 3, and that is an interesting business model in itself, given the very, very low capital employed.

Yes, that's for '28, but I was thinking more maybe beyond that. Yes. And on the MyParcel, how big is that? Can you share us already the numbers? Because I think it's a bit new for everybody.

I would say it's a bit new. We'll be reporting from that segment as of January 2026. But to give you a sense, you need to think north of EUR 100 million revenues. Definitely.

Okay. Quite sizable.

Okay. Then [indiscernible] safe now for the last one.

This very easy ones. On your APLs, just wondering what is the average locker size of the APLs, if you know that? And the second one is by '28, the 3,600 APLs, do you have an estimate of how much volume you expect to go through your APL system?

Yes. I think on average, the current APL is, I would say, on average, I believe, 44 lockers. But over time, they will become bigger and have more lockers per machine. But right now, I think it's 44.

Sorry, the 600 per year, does that exclude any, let's say, locker that you make -- that you expand?

Yes. It is the number of machines. The number of lockers that we add is more than 600 times 44 exactly.

Yes. Exactly. So...

I don't know exactly how much -- there is a locker that you see it's very successful. You will know, double, triple it in size.

Yes. If it's a good location, then we extend it, yes, obviously. Yes.

Okay. Then I'll hand over to Linde for the last word.

Yes. Well, that brings us to the end of today's Capital Markets Day. Thanks a lot for being here today in the room. And of course, the participants online, also thanks for attending today. And well, on behalf of the 2 of us, we are looking forward to make this strategy alive. Thank you.

Thank you all. Thank you.