PVA TePla Aktie

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the earnings call of PVA TePla AG for Q1 2026. My name is Sebastian Gonsior, and I'll be moderating today's call. And as usual, CEO, Jalin Ketter; and CFO, Markus Gross, will first walk you through the results for Q1 and share the outlook on the rest of the year before we will then open the floor for your questions.

And a quick housekeeping note before we start. This call is being recorded, and a replay will be made available on our website within the day. And with that, let's get started. And Jalin, over to you.

Thank you, Sebastian. And I have to say this time, not good morning rather than good evening as I'm joining this call from the U.S. this time. Last week would be -- would have been more comfortable when I would have been able to join from Asia. And I hope the line will be stable. Otherwise, the colleagues in Wettenberg have to continue with the presentation. And you see we are very busy to execute our strategy.

With having said that, it is even more exciting for me for [Technical Difficulty] our orders. With inspection tools for HBM, for advanced logic, we stepped into the next level of semiconductor industry and achieved an order volume of EUR 60 million. And in Material Solutions, R&D-related activities around compound semiconductor materials significantly start to contribute as well. With that, we achieved a record order intake of EUR 121.6 million during the first quarter.

And what makes it important to say is that it's not one order that's related to that order intake. It's different customers, different technologies, which are included in that development. And so a broader base of orders that we are handling with now. As expected, we started the year with a lower level of revenue and also earnings caused by strategic investments in our sales and service infrastructure in the organization, but also a lower order momentum from 2025, which is now starting to run through our books.

And these investments in our strategy will continue this year. And also, we will have included some further one-off effects during the year, which will phase out until year-end, so we will have a fresh start into 2027. With the higher order momentum that we are seeing at the first quarter, we further underline our guidance that we gave to you at the beginning of the year, and we are very confident that we will achieve that guidance.

Starting with the first quarter, we also changed our segment structure. So far, it was Semiconductor Systems and Industrial Systems and a very market-oriented approach that we have been running with that structure. So each entity in the group was assigned to a segment. And with the strategic development of our metrology business, which is more and more growing, we changed the focus from a very market-oriented approach to a technology-oriented approach.

And this also finally reflects how we are managing the company today. So it's also -- it's not only giving transparency to you, it's also how we are seeing the company and how we are managing the company that is showing in that segment structure now.

On the Material Solutions side, our systems are used for the production of advanced materials in the aerospace market for the production of high-performance components used to build up the grid infrastructure and most important today in the semiconductor market to produce bulk materials such as indium phosphide, for example, which is important for the communication between data centers. It's also including the production of semi-grade graphite and faster solutions for back-end-oriented applications such like a level packaging.

On the metrology side, we provide a broad product portfolio to the semiconductor industry. And most important there is today tools for the inspection of 2.5 and 3D structures in advanced logic and memory. With that, I wanted to bring everyone on the same level. So this earnings call is really focusing on the financials of the first quarter and our new segment structure.

So I'm happy to hand over to Markus now, who will show you how these segments are reflecting in our numbers.

Thank you very much, Jalin, and good morning from my side. Before we start with the financials as regular, I would like to take the chance to point also out some specific characteristics of our new segments and how these are affecting our financials.

In Materials Solutions, the system lead times with 12 to 18 months are way longer of those in metrology with 4 to 8 months. Reason being here is that in Materials Solutions, our systems are tailored to the specific needs of our customers. And this means there is an engineering phase, then custom fabricated parts are ordered and received. The assembly can start afterwards. And finally, the installment on the customer side happens. This whole process takes usually 12 to 18 months.

On the other side, in metrology, the systems are way more standardized, so lead times are way shorter with 4 to 8 months. This high degree of customization also reflects in the revenue recognition. In Material Solutions, often the revenue is recognized over time. And this is not happening in a linear fashion over the time. It's based on a cost to cost measurement, which means that the engineering and the assembly phase only contribute proportionally less than when -- to phases where the parts are received. So it's usually an S curve we are seeing in the pattern how the revenue is recognized.

On the other hand, in metrology, revenue is recognized at a specific point in time, which means when the system is delivered or when it's installed at the customer site. Payment terms are also different. In Materials Solutions, we are receiving prepayments usually in a structure of 30, 60 [indiscernible] or similar. But if it's a larger project, then the prepayments are tailored to the project to ensure we are always financed.

And metrology, there are prepayments very uncommon, so it's usually not what we are seeing here. What both segments have in common is that the service revenue is around 15% of the total revenue. With this in mind, let's start immediately with our group revenue.

So we're seeing a slight overall decrease year-over-year of around 6.6% -- 6.7% sorry, from EUR 59 million to EUR 55 million. And the picture in both segments is a little bit mixed. In Materials Solutions, we're seeing a decrease of EUR 10 million or 24%. And this is primarily caused by what I just explained. The order intake end of '24 and in the first half of '25 was rather low, which means we're currently with the order intake from Q3 and Q4 in the engineering phase, which is only contributing in a lower degree to the revenue, but this will change in the upcoming quarters.

In metrology, revenue is up EUR 6.4 million or almost 39%. This is driven especially by the acoustic metrology. Q1 will be the low point of our revenue in 2026. Looking at the order intake, we are very happy to report our second strongest quarter in company history. And what also makes us very proud is that it's not depending on a single customer or technology, and we're seeing more or less a 50-50 split between the segments.

In Materials Solutions, synthesis for compound materials played an important role. And in metrology, the order intake is acoustic driven. Here, we are seeing some catch-up effects from Q4 '25, but also first orders for HBM. But as we pointed out in the last call, delivery here is agreed for '27. So the usual pattern of 4 to 8 months in metrology doesn't apply to these orders.

Taking a look at the development of the order intake, we see the very strong increase from Q1 '25 to Q1 '26 with an average rate of 27.5%. And quarter-over-quarter, it's an increase of 33%. As we said, in metrology, there are some catch-up effects on 2027 deliveries. This is important to keep in mind. For Q2, in Materials Solutions, we already secured additional orders for compound materials in the semiconductor industry, which includes further orders for indium phosphide.

But here, we would like to point out that Materials Solutions is a project business, which depends on their important investment decisions. And so it's more lumpy and doesn't show a regular run rate like we're expecting in metrology, which is also expected to return to a level of around EUR 30 million with a pickup in the orders in late H2 2026 onwards.

Coming to the group profit. Our gross profit decreased from EUR 19.5 million to EUR 15.6 million, which is primarily caused by the lower level of revenue. And as we said, this is a temporary effect, and this is also affected due to a lower absorption of our fixed cost, a slight decrease in the gross profit margin from 33% down to 28.5%. And due to the high degree of fixed costs in our overheads, this immediately affects our EBITDA, which reduced from EUR 8.2 million down to EUR 1.4 million.

So the overhead levels were around what we have seen in Q3 and Q4. So there is no big change here. But with the reduction in the gross profit of EUR 3.9 million and additional EUR 2 million in the sales and administrative costs, which makes the FTE buildup we have seen in '25 fully visible. We have an immediate impact here. And also included are one-off items. We explained those in the last call of around EUR 1.3 million, where the largest portion is coming from the restructuring due to the closure of our site in Coburg.

Coming to the individual segments. Materials Solutions, the revenue is especially affected by the order intake in late '24 and early '25. As we said, this is a temporary effect, but is also affected based on the lower gross profit and an increase in the overhead or EBITDA, which reduced from EUR 6.6 million down to EUR 1 million. At the same time, the order intake more than doubled from EUR 24.8 million to EUR 59 million, which gives us great confidence that we are here seeing only a temporary effect. And based on the order book coming from Q3, Q4 and also Q1, this is -- will turn around.

In metrology, we're seeing an increase in the revenue of 38.2% from EUR 16.6 million to EUR 23 million. The EBITDA decreased at the same time from EUR 3.4 million down to EUR 2.2 million. Here, the scale-up of the organization and especially one-offs from the restructuring played an important role. Looking at the order intake, we can see that this almost tripled from EUR 21.3 million to EUR 62.7 million.

So I would like to close the financials with an outlook on Q2. Here, we are expecting that the order intake in Metrology will return to the regular run rate of roughly EUR 30 million. And in Materials Solutions, the order momentum will continue. But as I said, due to the characteristics of the segment, we are seeing a higher volatility here, which will be visible in the order intake.

Group revenue is based on the conversion of our order book expected to grow substantially quarter-over-quarter and year-over-year. And with the higher volume of revenues, profitability is expected to improve on all levels quarter-over-quarter. For the full year, we guided EUR 255 million to EUR 275 million in revenue and an EBITDA between EUR 26 million and EUR 31 million. We're confirming this guidance.

And based on the order intake we received in Q1, and as a side note, most of these orders were -- or projects were already discussed when we published our guidance. So they have been factored in. It gives us great confidence to achieve our goals for '26, but also gives us great visibility for '26 -- beyond '26. So that's from the financials, and we're happy to head into the Q&A together with you now.

Okay. Thank you, Markus and Jalin. And so now we are going to the questions. And Constantin Hesse is first.

Can you hear me?

Yes.

The first one is just on the cadence of the order intake. So I think it's clear Q2 metrology returns to that level that we had spoken about before. And then as we go into Q3, Q4, should that be a sustainable acceleration? Or should the acceleration only really come in Q4? And then in Materials Solutions, I'm just trying to piece together what exactly you mean by the momentum continues, but expect volatility. So maybe you can comment a little bit about what the underlying momentum is just so I -- just for a better understanding of how to model order intake for Material Solutions going forward, right? Just to basically trying to understand that. That's the first question.

Yes. So for Material Solutions, maybe just let's start with this. So based on the discussions we're having with customers, et cetera, we are very confident that we'll stay here on an elevated level. But looking at Q4 and Q1, these were very good quarters, and there is -- the higher volatility is coming from there. There are larger projects included and these are -- it's difficult to guide will they be in Q2 or Q3, et cetera, and this makes it a little bit more volatility or lumpy as we say. Makes sense?

Okay. Understood. So elevated levels basically below Q4, below Q1, but then higher than obviously Q2 last year?

Yes, yes, absolutely.

Yes. Okay. Fine. And then just on metrology, it runs at about $30 million for Q2, Q3 and then a big acceleration in Q4? Or should we already expect an acceleration in Q3?

Yes, we are looking more at Q4 than Q3 for the acceleration.

Okay. Understood. And just lastly, on the investments for growth. I mean, clearly, those are still hindering profitability improvement this year. But looking into -- and Jalin, I think you already commented on that on the last call. So just really a homework question. We should start seeing some proper operating leverage hitting the business in '27, right?

Yes, yes, absolutely.

Hartmut Moers is next.

Can you hear me now?

Yes.

I would also like to start with the order intake. Can you give us a feel of -- I mean, you should have an order book by now if you didn't have any cancellation, which I don't expect of around EUR 245 million. How much of that roughly is related to the '27 and beyond?

Yes. So we are very confident that we will achieve our guidance for '26 with EUR 255 million to EUR 275 million. And there are -- all orders we are seeing now will contribute more and more for our goals to '27. And this is also the case with the orders we received in Q1 that they will already give us great confidence for a good start into '27.

Let me rephrase it probably a little bit. I mean, last quarter, you gave us the indication that roughly 50% of your -- the high end of your guidance was already in the book. Can you give a similar indication this quarter as well?

Yes, it's increasing substantially with the order intake of Q1, and we're very confident here for our guidance.

Okay. Good. Then let's probably come to the composition of the order intake. So you're saying in metrology, you're back to -- or you will come back to a normal run rate of EUR 30 million next quarter. Is it fair to assume that you deem roughly EUR 30 million of the order intake that came in Q1 as, let's say, extraordinary? And where would that come from? Or give us a feel for the additional volume that you now pick in, in that particular quarter?

Yes, I wouldn't say it's extraordinary. So there are some catch-up effects coming from Q4 where the order intake was a bit lower. Then we have the orders with delivery in '27 and then the run rate of EUR 30 million should be more seen than an average over the quarters than a hard value. So there are some -- always some kind of fluctuations here, but it's nothing out of the ordinary.

And probably a final one with regard to the profitability. I was wondering a bit about the rather high impact you had on the gross margin side. You showed the EUR 3.9 million year-on-year down. You're roughly at EUR 28 million. If we look at the divisional development, you had a rather strong increase in the Material Solutions side, which I suppose has an even higher gross margin than the Material Solutions part. So you should have a positive mix effect from that on the gross margin side, which should have a compensatory effect. So could you please go a bit more into detail on that side?

Yes. So the gross margin on the product side is very well intact, and there is no issue. What we are seeing here is a combination of low volume and low fixed cost degradation or absorption. So this will be here at the low point and with the increase in the revenues, this will change. So for the moment, we're seeing under utilization in the assembly part of the Projects and Material Solutions, as I explained, we're currently more in the engineering phase and this will change and then also the margins will improve here.

Yes. And with regard to the metrology side, did you also experience a decline in gross margin? Or has gross margin increased with the rather strong increase in sales?

So no, the margins are on a regular level here. We are seeing that they are where we would expect them. There is no degradation or reduction at that point.

All right. Bastian Brach is next.

It's one for me, and it's about the North American market and the development there. We had order intake at 10% in Q1 in 2025, a little bit over 10%. In the past, you talked about increasing the share of the U.S. business in your group expand partnerships, et cetera. How do you see the current development there and going forward also into 2027?

Yes. So that's a good question because I'm already -- I'm actually on site. This is the reason why -- so we want to further strategically open the market for us. We already made a lot of progress on semiconductor market to increase activities on the metrology side, on the Material Solutions side, and we are working also on other fields. So that takes time to further identify the customers to open the doors at customers and get qualified with our technology. But we are awaiting a steady increase in that market, which will contribute to the order book. Also in 2026, we will see a higher portion from the U.S. already.

All right. Edwin de Jong, please.

All right. Can you hear me?

Yes.

Maybe on the metrology side, we talked a lot about qualification and first orders in metrology for you guys. And how is the situation at the moment that you're qualified in the U.S., you're qualified in Taiwan, I guess, and then also in Korea. The orders that are coming now, are they more for the pilot production? And when would you really expect the high-volume orders? Or are they already in there?

In the first quarter, we already had orders which are not on the pilot production anymore. So this is already reaching into that in-line inspection where we are moving into the fab, especially on the HBM side where we had some nice orders in the first quarter, which are reaching into 2027. And also in the logic side, we are starting to get orders which are also in the fab. And in Korea, we are making further progress with bringing systems in, yes. So first system has been finally delivered to customer and is moved into the fab. So steady positive contribution on that level as well.

And I guess that, that acceleration is continuing in that part, right?

Yes.

In metrology, yes. Okay. Then on the Material Solutions side, maybe starting with the order intake. So the orders were really strong Q1, of course. Can you give a little bit of an idea of what the composition is? What part is, let's say, really the [ synthesis of ] silicon carbide silicon? And what part is more the fusion bond racing business, that kind of stuff? Can you give a little bit of color on that?

Yes. Most activities are coming from material synthesis and compound semiconductor solutions. And it's a mixture between them.

Yes. And then the silicon carbide silicon is within the -- within the synthesis is more or less 50-50 or is it more silicon carbide at the moment?

So it's compound semiconductors, which means the compound semiconductors, silicon carbide, indium phosphide, calcium fluoride, these are the activities where we are in.

And great to see that you have already won orders for indium phosphide. I guess that's really a market that should pick up. The orders that you have, are they for delivery already in 2026 or 2027?

So a small portion in 2026 and most of it in 2027.

Okay. Great. That's clear. And finally, on the material side, I guess the Q4 acceleration in the expected order intake, does that have something to do with your largest customer there in silicon? Or should I see that in a different way?

You mean 2026?

Yes, exactly, in Q4 2026.

So what we expect in Q4 2026 is a larger contribution on the metrology side as the investment phase that we are expecting and that we are getting forecasted from our customers is starting to support the developments and the move in 2027.

Okay. And then finally, and I'll leave the floor to other questions. I'm seeing at the moment a big movement also into power chips. And I say, of course, for you guys, that's also a big business, especially with aluminum nitride, indium phosphide, silicon carbide. Can you give a little bit of an idea of how your interactions are with, let's say, the data center side versus the automotive side in that development?

So the activities that we lately into get into the books from silicon carbide sales have been more related to that already established market. But what we are in discussion with different customers and different locations is that new applications, which are also going into the direction that you mentioned. So it's nothing there yet, but it's something that we are in discussion with.

You're seeing a lot of traction in the market, I guess. So in that part.

Maissa Keskes, please.

So a bit on the discussion that you have with your customers so far, do you still expect some orders that will be recorded in Q2 and Q3 in metrology will be delivered in '27? I mean, do you still expect customers to further secure capacity for '27 in the upcoming quarters?

Yes, there is a different approach between the customers. So several -- we are getting reliable forecasts where we are working with and orders when we are adding to move in the systems. And on other sites, we are working with already orders that we are receiving. So this is a very diverse field, where customers are handling the situation differently. Of course, there can be more orders in 2026, which are related to 2027 again, yes.

Okay. And regarding the indium phosphide, how many equipment have been recorded in the orders in Q1 '26? And do you still expect more orders to come in the course of the year?

We already have a smaller amount of orders for indium phosphide, which is related in Q1, and we expect further traction in the order book during the year.

Okay. And what kind of customer are you addressing in indium phosphide?

So it's related to the activities due to the communication of data centers -- between data centers, but we cannot disclose on single customers in that case.

Okay. And regarding the OpEx, how do you see the OpEx development going forward? Still some restructuring costs expected for the upcoming quarter? Do you see maybe the EBIT that will be another time negative in Q2 before a gradual increase in H2?

So in general, we are seeing that our OpEx are now at the level we deem as given for the year. So there will be no sharp increases or anything further. And we don't expect negative EBITDA in the upcoming quarters. We're seeing that we are well on track to fulfill our guidance of EUR 26 million to EUR 31 million in EBITDA, and this will become visible in the next quarters.

Then we have a question from Apus Capital, which I assume is Johannes Ries, correct?

Yes, that's right, Johannes. Three questions from my side. If you're looking to the news flow of the latest months, your potential customer in semiconductors clearly maybe raised their expectation because their customers, especially from the [ AI ] side has heavily raised their CapEx plans, especially at the advanced packaging take TSMC with CoWoS, but also Intel with their solution increasing heavily their forecast and investments.

And at HBM on the other side, at the memory side, it's the same. I think this expectation has not been maybe the base for your original plan. If all these things are happening and you are coming with your metrology solutions in these new fabs and new lines, could it be maybe that the demand could be even higher than you originally thought as you build this plan with the EUR 500 million?

Okay. So we already mentioned in the first quarter that we see that the market is bigger than we originally expected, but we will stay with that expectation of a market share of 30% to 40% in that regard. Of course, we did not include yet that further announcements of capacity needs, which is not included in that yet. It can be higher than we expect, but we for now stay with the targets that we set.

As you always said in the past, the year '28 is not maybe the final point. There could be further growth beyond this year.

Yes. So we want to participate on that market on a long run, not only until that date. So we are happy when the market is steadily increasing, and we also can move in our system after 2028, of course.

Yes. Maybe I think I asked it, but I have not in my head 100%, your solution is independent if it's used for level-based or panel level based advanced packaging?

Yes. It's both. It's front-end related, it's wafer level related, and it's also panel level related. So we are active in all the 3 areas.

So not in the back end also in the front-end space with ultrasonic, okay. Also, you have 2 other smaller solutions. One is optical for maybe very early to make the inspection for the wafer. And you're also working on a new radiology solution. Then we could expect maybe a ramp-up of these 2 solutions, and they are also maybe ice on the cake compared to your expectations you published. Is that right?

Yes. On the optical side, we are on an earlier stage than on the ultrasound side. So this is something where we will this year already see first contracts with customers. We are, at the moment, moving in systems to R&D centers and are getting first signs on reflection from the market, and we expect that they will contribute more significant in 2027.

Super. Finally, on the indium phosphide, can you give us a feeling one solution or one machine, how you call it, what is the average price? Is it higher than maybe a solution for silicon carbide?

Yes, it's more in the direction of silicon.

Okay. That means around EUR 10 million or what?

That's too high. One digit million, a low digit million.

All right. And then we have Michael Kuhn.

Essentially, one follow-up. Do you have any silicon crystal growth order in the backlog currently?

Of course, we are still executing silicon crystal orders.

All right. Thank you so much, everyone, for joining. And before we close the call, I would now still like to hand over to Jalin for some closing remarks.

Thanks, everyone, for your questions and for participating in that call. And as you saw with these orders we received, we are achieving a new milestone again. And this is the result of the effort of the strategic development over the last 2 years that we have done with the company and which was caused by the work of the whole team and the whole team will further continue with that execution. So thanks for listening today and your interest in PVA. I'm looking forward for the next call. And I can say now good night.

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to PVA TePla AG's Earnings Call for the Full Year 2025. My name is Sebastian Gonsior, and I'll be moderating today's call. And in a second, CEO, Jalin Ketter; and CFO, Markus Groß, will walk you through the results for the fiscal year 2025 and share their outlook. After the presentation, we'll open the floor for your questions. A quick housekeeping note before we start. This call is being recorded, and a replay will be made available on our website within the day.

And with that being said, let's get started.

And Jalin, over to you.

Good morning, and thanks, Sebastian. 2025 was a challenging year for PVA TePla, operating in a very cautious market environment. But at the same time, we used that period to prepare the company for growth in both segments, Metrology and Material Solutions.

Over the last 2 years, PVA has developed from supplying highly specialized solutions with small volumes to now significantly targeting global high-volume markets, which means that we are addressing the world's largest chip producers now. This transformation requires a fundamental transformation of our organization, and this is something that is still ongoing.

Further to this, we have had a strong order momentum, which especially took place in the second half of 2025. Both product lines developed very positively. Aiming for growth also requires the right fundament to build on. We did set up an investment plan to support this, which was executed in 2025. This also caused higher operational expenses for investments in technology and sales and service infrastructure and our organization in general. And these investments also include some project costs, which are having short-term effects on our overhead costs, 2025 and 2026, but will not be recurring. Markus will explain a little bit deeper what it is about.

Our gross margin development were stable with 32% and yes, also was coming with a lower revenue volume in a positive development. Efficiency projects, which we already have started, contribute to the gross margin development already starting from 2026 and onwards. And we started to focus our activities in the Industrial segment to new high-volume markets. With this, we already have started to increase our share in the energy market. For example, R&D projects with customers to produce advanced anode materials for battery technology. But also, we increased our share in aerospace in North America and Europe.

Within 2025, we expected our portfolio with -- we extended our portfolio with cooperations and acquisitions. And we started with a vertical integration of a supplier of us. This was supporting a faster production increase in our Metrology business. And further, we strengthened our optical metrology with new patented technology that we took over and a strategic partnership. And the positive about that, I would like to mention is that there is already an outcome of that project. So we started to produce first R&D systems, which will be delivered to institutes in the first half of 2026.

Most excitingly, we stepped into high-volume business with our acoustic metrology. But this is something that I would like to keep for a deep dive later.

Let's first look to the financials with our CFO, Markus Groß.

Good morning, and welcome to today's earnings call. I'm happy to guide you now through our financials. And we're immediately starting with our group revenue. Q4 was our strongest quarter in 2025 with almost EUR 69 million. And for the Semiconductor Systems, it was a good quarter. And for the Industrial Systems segment, it was a quite strong quarter. Overall, we completed the year with a revenue of EUR 244 million. And here are 2 key takeaways.

First of all, we are pretty close to the midpoint of our updated guidance from October between EUR 235 million and EUR 255 million, but we are also almost 10% below the previous year. When we started into 2025, we guided for EUR 260 million to EUR 280 million. And during H1, we had to realize that there are delays in the order intake, which led us to guide with H1 to the lower end of the bandwidth. In H2, project timing shifts affected our revenue recognition across several markets and product groups. And in this context, it's very important for us, there are no cancellations and projects were and are expected to convert in 2026.

Looking at our product groups. Metrology is with 40% contributing to our revenue mix. And in revenues, high-volume customers have a growing share. Looking at the regional split, Europe is our strongest market in 2025 with 43%, closely followed by Asia. And there's always a back and forth between these 2 markets. We will see in 2 slides ahead that this is about to change here.

Coming to the order intake. We see a very strong development over the year with an almost doubled order intake from Q1 with EUR 46 million, up to EUR 91 million in Q4, which also means that there is an average growth rate per quarter of more than 25%. Demand was supported by both product groups with especially strong contributions from Material Solutions in Q3 and even more in Q4. Here, semiconductor-related investments played an important role.

Metrology showed normal quarterly volatility in Q4. And we're seeing already in 2026, a catch-up with a very strong order momentum with orders as of today around EUR 50 million, but some of these orders have agreed delivery for 2027. So more generally speaking, the Metrology order run rate is only expected to accelerate from late H2 2026 onwards. And we're also seeing an increasing demand in Material Solutions for crystal growth for high-end semi applications. Jalin will give you additional information here in a couple of minutes.

The order intake for the full year increased by almost 78% from EUR 151 million to EUR 268 million. Demand was supported from both segments, especially in the Semiconductor Systems segment. And our book-to-bill ratio is now again above 1.

Looking at the product groups, Metrology has also more than 41%, and it highlights the growing importance of our inspection technologies. Looking at the regional split, we can see that Asia is accounting for more or almost 50% of our order intake and that the U.S. or North America increased in comparison with the revenue from 15% to 20%. Both markets are driven by semiconductor investments.

Coming to the group profit. And looking first at the gross margin, which developed quite stable, from 32.6% to 31.9%. So we're seeing a reduction of 0.7 percentage points. But this is despite a challenging environment with weak order intakes in 2024 and the first half of '25, which is a clear indication for us that there is no price pressure in our product mix and strength -- it shows the strength of our group's business model.

Revenue was at the same time down by 10%, which means that also there are capacity underutilizations in comparison to 2024. This adds another pressure on the gross margin. So all in all, we are satisfied with the development of the gross margin in 2025.

Looking at EBITDA and its margin, we're seeing a quite dramatic reduction of EUR 22.5 million, or 47%. I would like to break this down for you to give you a little bit better understanding here. Due to the lower sales volume, we lost around EUR 10 million in the gross profit. And the remaining EUR 12.5 million can be more or less broken down into the scaling up of our R&D, sales and service activities, with EUR 9 million as recurring costs and another EUR 4 million of nonrecurring strategy and related one-off items, both in the light of our strategic initiatives.

So taking a closer look at our Semiconductor Systems segment. We already discussed the revenue development. And here, once again, the delayed projects are expected to convert into revenue in the coming periods. Looking at the EBITDA and the EBITDA margin. It's important here despite the effects I just explained that the gross profit margin developed positively from 37.3% to 37.7%. The R&D increase we're seeing in the P&L is especially attributable to the segment, Semiconductor Systems, and is around EUR 6 million, and the other operational expenditures increased by EUR 2 million, which translates to around 5 percentage points of margin.

In the Industrial Systems segment, revenue and order intake both increased, order intake, especially. Both developments can be attributed to a stable demand coming from the energy and aerospace sector. Looking at the EBITDA in Q4, we see a quite dramatic reduction, which is related to consolidation-related one-off effects. So looking at the full year, it gives you the better picture. The gross margin developed from 23% to 25% during the year 2025. But at the same time, due to strategic initiatives, the operational expenditure increased by EUR 4 million, which is more or less the effect you see in the EBITDA.

Coming to the cash development. Our operating cash flow was around EUR 12 million for the full year, but also for Q4. If you remember, in Q3, we were quite close to the -- near zero due to working capital effects, which reversed in Q4. The cash flow from investing activities was around EUR 30 million, and 50% of these can be attributed to strategic growth initiatives, EUR 5 million for the acquisition of desconpro and DIVE or PVA Vision as of today as investments in our Metrology business. Other investments were in technology and capacity expansions.

With 2025, we're in the middle of an investment cycle, which started in 2024 and will continue at a comparable level in 2026. But then onwards, we will return to approximately 50% of what we are seeing today as at the normal level.

So let me conclude the financials with a little bit more color on our guidance. We are guiding for revenue between EUR 255 million and EUR 275 million. And at the same time, the order intake was EUR 268 million, with especially strong contributions in Q3, but even more in Q4. And these were primarily driven by Material Solutions. Projects here often have lead times of 12 to 18 months. And especially in this case, a substantial part of the revenue will take place in 2027. At the same time, we have a very good view on '26 and also beyond.

So roughly 50% of our guidance in '26 are already covered by the order backlog, and the rest will be coming from order intakes in H1 in Metrology and Material Solutions as well as our regular run rate from service and aftersales revenues. In 2026, the EBITDA has been guided for EUR 26 million to EUR 31 million. And here, around EUR 18 million are attributable to strategic initiatives, where EUR 13 million are from recurring scale-up costs, and EUR 5 million are related to one-off items, like IT projects or restructuring.

That's it from my side here for the financials. I'm happy to answer your questions during the Q&A, and I'm handing back over to Jalin.

Thanks, Markus. In our strategic update today, I would like to remind you about 2 important fields we are active in and give you some insights about actual developments of these areas. Let's start with Metrology. Within our midterm targets, scaling acoustic microscopy is one of our most important tasks. With this technology, we are addressing high-end semiconductor applications in a steady growing market environment. And until mid of 2025, we have been more active in R&D and near-line inspection with our tools. And this is addressing special applications at customer site. The systems we delivered have been more highly customized, but either manual or semi-automated, only in a very few cases, fully automated.

The applications we addressed with this technology were mostly placed in the production of legacy node chips, which is more automotive and industrial electronic oriented. The number of customers in that field is high, but the number of systems used in such a fab is low. Based on our outstanding technology, focusing on high throughput and resolution, we took the opportunity to address now the world-leading chip manufacturers. Within that, we are bringing our tools now into R&D centers of these companies and production lines, which means that our systems are now used in line.

And this brings different requirements for us. The number of customers in that area is small, but the volume of tools used in the production is significantly higher than in other fields. The tools have to be copied exactly, which means that once they are evaluated and set-up is fixed, R&D process with customers has ended, there are no changes anymore in the systems. And we have to support the customers into a 24/7 on-site support.

Also, the quality requirements for tools and service are significantly higher than in other areas. And this causes also changes in our production processes, the tool setup and the qualification of our teams. It's a different world for us. Stepping into this market is only possible when we are participating in qualification processes and improve our technology on customer side. And these processes can take up to 12 months, sometimes a little bit longer. It's also depending on changes of the technology for special requirements of the customer. Sometimes there is an R&D phase, which we often have seen already where we are adjusting step-by-step the tool for the application of the customer.

But -- with that development, we already made a very great progress stepping into that market. So when we just take 2024 compared to 2025, in 2025, more than 50% of our activities in acoustic metrology are already related to this high-volume business, which is significantly more than before.

With new developments and production steps and the higher complexity of semiconductors, the need of 3D inspection in nondestructive ways becomes also more and more important. And our inspection method is relevant for both, memory and also advanced logic chips. With the technology that we are able to address, actual stack -- HBM stack levels, but we are also prepared for the next generation, which means that stacks are increasing, but also material concepts are different to before. And the layers which are builded up there are getting very thin now. And acoustic metrology is the only way to really nondestructive inspect with a high throughput and a high resolution.

Also hybrid bonding is a very important technology for next-generation artificial intelligence and high-performance semiconductors. Its critical challenge are structural anomalies at the bond interface that pass undetected in electrical testing. So if there is a defect, it would only occur on the end customer side. Scanning acoustic microscopy is uniquely positioned at the only nondestructive technology, able to identify these kind of defects already at the process level, which is very important. And this gives PVA TePla's customers a significant quality advantage and positions us at the center of the most demanding quality control requirements in advanced packaging.

Most of this most likely causes that the method becomes required for semiconductor production processes, which would be very supportive for our development. [indiscernible] that can come up.

Having a look to the addressable market, we observe that it's steadily increasing. Since our Capital Markets Day in September 2025, market demand for 2028 increased to about $550 million, and we still aim to generate a market share of 30% to 40% of that market. And with all of that, our midterm targets are significantly underlined.

For Material Solutions, I want to point out synthesis technology for semiconductors. Our strategic aim in this field is to diversify our activities and address a broader range of future materials with our technology. Also in this technology, we are coming from single-system approach, very customized systems, for special application at customer side. And also with the focus on silicon and silicon carbide for power electronics, where we still have...

[Technical Difficulty]

Let's start again with the Material Solutions area. I just heard that we had some problems with the connection. So I hope that I'm getting the right point to start again. Yes, for Material Solutions, I would like to point out synthesis technology for semiconductors, where our strategic aim is to further diversify our activities and address a broader range of future materials with the technology. And in this field, we are coming also from an area where we have been focusing on single-system approach, very customized systems for customers and special applications. And yes, we already stepped into kind of volume business with focusing on silicon and silicon carbide for power electronics, but we still had some dependencies on single market cycles. And with the strategy, we aim to fully reduce the dependencies on single markets and customers.

In 2024, you might remember that at the beginning of the year, we announced that we opened our R&D center, PVA Technology Hub with a strong focus on future materials. And in the meantime, we made a lot of progress with this development team. So on the one hand side, we pushed the next generation of crystal growing technology in established market field. But on the other hand side, we also broadened our activities from single-element crystals to compound semiconductors. Last earnings call, I already mentioned the new developments in crystal growing technology for silicon carbide in 300-millimeter. And yes, I'm happy to announce today that this already brings a positive outcome as we are already discussing with different customers about R&D systems, to deliver.

And in the meantime, we also [indiscernible] so-called vertical gradient freeze.

Okay. Next to calcium fluoride, which is relevant for optics, and an established field for us already. Indium phosphide is a very promising material for photonic chips. And this is very important for the connection between data centers. So it's also coming with everything around artificial intelligence. Also for this technology, we already started first customer projects and will deliver a small number of systems used for R&D at the second half of 2026. And we expect to further contribute on the positive market development of this period.

As mentioned right at the beginning, we used the year 2025 to start the change of our organization, which are needed to address the high-volume markets. And yes, Metrology in that is the most important growth area. And already 2025, we increased our production capacities with the vertical integration of the desconpro, but also additional cleanroom capacity. In 2026, we will finalize the increase of our production line for the optics for the systems and additional cleanroom capacity for that high-volume area.

But we also gain more and more market share in Metrology worldwide, which means that we now start to bring our training concepts to the next level. This comes with, on the one hand side, additional floor capacity in Germany, which we invest. But more important, it's a combination with an international on-site approach, to be near at the people that we just hired in Taiwan and Korea. We already streamlined our organization, already in 2025 with the consolidation of our team in China. And beginning of 2026, we further decided to close our facility in Coburg, which provides metrology tools with less potential to scale.

High scale potential and fast-growing markets. So closing that facility is in line with our strategy and also allocate more resources to Metrology projects, which are supportive for our midterm targets. So we further streamline the organization in that field.

Yes, we steadily also work on the improvement of our operational excellence. This is something that we already started last year with a new shopfloor management that we implemented. And in 2026, there are some additional projects to optimize production flows and lead times, and that will be supportive for our gross margin development starting from 2026, but also ahead.

We also reviewed our software landscape. We initiated a project for a new CRM system and HR system. This will be finalized in 2026 as well.

And one last point that I would like to point out is our One PVA approach, which we initiated in 2025, which is also a cultural change to leverage synergies across the group and also avoiding silos and most important, present as one global team to our customers.

And Markus already explained in detail our guidance, so I will not go too deep on that again. But we started with a very strong order momentum in Metrology during the first few months of the year. And I would like to really point out that parts of this order intake already relate to 2027, which finally shows that the technology has been adapted for HBM, and it underlines our expectation for significant growth starting from 2027. So please take that point with you from today.

Also in the area of Material Solutions, we already see a diversification of activities in new market activities with growth potential. Examples for that are on the one hand side, battery technologies, but on the other hand side, materials like indium phosphide, which have a great potential in the market.

Looking beyond 2026, we also focus on the expansion of our service and aftersales business, which will bring more recurring revenue level and of course, on the improvement of our profitability. And with that setup, we are very well prepared to -- and committed to our midterm targets.

But before we close this presentation, I want to remind you about the most important points of today. The market for the use of acoustic microscopy grows significantly, and we are very well positioned as we already have been qualified with the technology at some major chip manufacturers. Our activities in the Industrial segment are strongly focusing on fast-growing markets such as aerospace and energy. And the expansion of our cost structure, which also includes nonrecurring cost effects in '25 and '26, is short term impacting our earnings development. But on the long run, it's an investment in the future of PVA TePla.

The demand of both product lines, Metrology and Material Solutions remain unchanged, which is already reflected in that strong order momentum that we have seen over the last quarters. And our midterm target to achieve EUR 500 million in revenue remains unchanged.

With having said that, I would like to close the presentation. Thanks for listening, and we are coming to your questions now.

Thank you very much, Jalin. So we will now move to the Q&A section and open the floor for your questions. We kindly ask you that you limit yourselves to two or three questions at a time so that we can give everyone a chance to participate. And remember that you have to raise your hand, so you can post questions via audio and not over the chat.

So Maissa Keskes is first.

Maissa, can you hear us?

Maissa? Okay. Apparently, there are some connection issues. Let's -- Michael Kuhn is next.

I think there's always a tiny time delay with the unmuting. So starting with the first question on the very strong order intake in Metrology year-to-date. Can you provide us with a rough split what was for HBM already? And maybe also an idea why this HBM order came so early despite the obviously quite short lead times in that business. That will be the first one, yes.

It's the first double-digit order for 2027, to save also capacities on PVA side as you're seeing that we are getting more and more orders also in the actual time line, so for the actual year. And there are customers who already want to save capacity for 2027 to be prepared for the investments. And from the Metrology side, yes, the majority of the orders that we are having or that we are seeing in the first quarter are for high-volume business. So it's a split between HBM and logic.

Understood. And then, I mean, HBM players, there are only 3. Are you in contact with the other 2 as well?

Yes, we are in contact with everyone.

Fantastic. Then one on the Material Solutions and crystal growth, which was pretty strong in Q4. Obviously, Siltronic isn't placing any orders right now. Could you provide us with, let's say, a few more details or indications on what's the background of that order in the fourth quarter?

Yes, it's also synthesis technology for semiconductor applications, but we cannot disclose exactly which area is behind that.

All right. And then last question, the third one. In the context of silicon carbide, you mentioned 300-millimeter again and discussions about R&D tools. Maybe some indications on who are the potential customers here, maybe location? And what could be the time line of that project, let's say, once it converts into volume orders?

We are talking about R&D projects at the moment. And this is a different area of application. So in the past, it was more power electronics, so automotive and energy related. And now we are talking about areas which are also supporting developments on the artificial intelligence side. So this is a different use for the material, and this is also something where locations are diverse. So it's Europe and it's also Asia.

So that will be more like SiC interposers.

Yes.

All right. Let's -- Maissa, let's try again with your questions.

Hello? Can you hear me?

Yes.

Okay. So the guidance '26 came in well below the consensus, and it's just 8% increase at the midpoint of the range, despite all the good news in the industry and your new customer win, which raises some concern on '28 targets as it will imply around 37% CAGR, meaning still a huge order intake needed. What are you hearing from your customers? And what gives you confidence that '28 targets are still in place and that there are no risk that it will be pushed maybe into 2030?

Yes. So as just mentioned in the presentation, especially the developments on the Metrology side are giving us very well confident that starting from 2027, we will see a significant growth in that area as we are getting more and more qualification processes closed, already orders received for 2027 to serve -- to save production capacity. So very good signs from that area. And on the materials side, that diversification, which I wanted to point out in the presentation also, is very supportive or underlines very well that we are on the well track to achieve that target. So we are very confident for midterm revenue volume.

Timing with 2028, we just see that there can be some shifts in months, but it's not a shift -- a significant shift that we would foresee for that.

Okay. And there has been an increasing industry momentum around the silicon photonic, which you have already highlighted. Given your exposure to this market through the metrology for advanced packaging and for crystal growing system for indium phosphide, could you clarify whether you have already started to see order intake related to silicon photonic for crystal growing systems? And are any of these applications already included in your recent orders? And what kind of customers that you are addressing in this field?

Yes. So we are already having a small number of systems that we will deliver on the crystal growing side in the second half of 2026, which are for that material. So we are active in that field. We are having first activities. We expect that, that will further grow over the time.

Okay. And maybe the last question, can you provide some updates about the remaining qualification for the potential new customers? And when are you expecting to get it?

Yes. On the qualification side, so we are very well progressed with that. As you know, each production line needs a qualification of tools. So that means that there will be a continuous process. So we will never end with that as we always have to qualify again, which doesn't mean that there is a long qualification process anymore when we're stepping in new production lines because the first is always the most intense as tool setup has to be aligned with the parts that have to be detected. We are making progress. So we see already a nice order intake from -- coming from Taiwan. We sold the first system to Korea. So nice development on that side.

Bastian Brach is next.

Can you hear me?

Yes.

So 2 questions for me. The first one is if you could break down the EUR 18 million additional costs you guided for in 2026? Of which are EUR 13 million for business scale-up, is that mostly R&D or your service centers? So maybe a little breakdown there. And the EUR 5 million one-off items, is that related to the ERP project? Or what is included in that?

Yes. The scale-up is especially in the R&D sector, but also for our sales and service infrastructure. Jalin mentioned it already, and we did in the last calls that this is a requirement in terms of the nonrecurring strategic initiatives, but also it's from the restructuring in Coburg we mentioned. And there are IT projects going on. Jalin mentioned the CRM system. We're rolling out a new ERP system with some of our entities, and these are the most important projects there.

Okay. And then the second one is on the headcount growth, which you mentioned is largely completed apart from some, yes, special hires. Does it mean there's also no significant headcount growth necessary to reach your midterm targets? So even in '27, '28, we only see a moderate headcount growth? Or was that related to 2026 with another increase in '27, '28?

No, we expect not a significant increase anymore. So that will be more related then to further buildup of activities and future-oriented when we see that the business is getting stronger than we originally planned. So it's only moderate development that we are foreseeing now.

All right. Thank you. Hartmut Moers, please.

Can you hear me?

Yes.

I will start with the cash flow. Probably you could guide us a bit through your thinking for the coming 2 years. So with CapEx still being high in '26 and also some decent growth, working capital should increase. So would it be fair to assume that free cash flow would still be negative in 2026? And with CapEx coming down in 2027, you should be back to somewhere around positive breakeven, something like that. Is that a fair assumption? Or am I missing something here?

I think I got most of your questions. So we're thinking about the cash flow for 2026 that looking at the EBITDA level and the CapEx we are planning, they are more or less -- you mentioned the working capital development. Yes, we're seeing there a growth in Metrology, but at the same time, we're receiving larger orders in Material Solutions, where the majority will take place in 2027. So prepayments will support here the business. This is what we are often explaining how helpful both business lines here are in financing.

So we're seeing that the cash flow here will be supported by Material Solutions. And I guess you didn't have yet the time, but we added some sections here in our business report where you can find also some views in this topic.

Okay. But you can confirm that 2027 should be in positive territory on the free cash flow side, yes?

Yes. That's our expectation, yes.

Yes. Great. The second one was your statement with regarding to Q1 order momentum remaining strong again. And on a previous slide, you had mentioned that you are currently at a 25% growth rate in order intake. Shall we make the connection and add 25% for Q1 to the EUR 90 million we had, well knowing that Q4 included some build orders? Is that what you're saying or...

No, no. We meant that the strong order momentum from Q4 is continuing in Q1 '26, not that the growth rate of 25% will continue at this level in 2026.

The growth rate compared to what? Are you saying we're looking at the same level?

Yes. We are looking for Q1 at a comparable level to Q4.

Okay. That's clear now. Last one would be with regard to your medium-term guidance. I mean everything you're saying now relates to your sales target. Originally, you also had a margin target. Are you modifying that in any way? Or are you still keeping to the 15% once you've reached the EUR 500 million?

So as we're going to combine the revenue target with the margin target, the margin target is meant for after growth, and this is also staying like that for now.

Constantin Hesse, please.

Can you hear me okay?

Yes.

I've only got a few questions left. Can we start maybe with the commentary around Q1 capacity reservations? I think that is definitely something quite interesting and that you probably haven't seen before, at least not from other players compared to what we had from Siltronic before. So if we look at capacity reservations, and you basically mentioned that you're talking to every HBM player out there, do you think that these capacity reservations could continue into the year? Could we see more of that? Or do you think this was more of a one-off? That's the first question. Let's start with that one.

Yes. So it's depending on how the customers are acting. There are some who are reservating and putting final orders in place, and there are some who are just forecasting and putting the orders in place how -- like we agreed. So it will be diverse over the year. We will see some more reservations, but we also will see orders that are coming with the...

[Technical Difficulty]

Sorry, you cut off there a little bit at the end. But fair enough. So it's fair to assume that reservations, you expect reservations to continue into the year.

Yes, but not for all of the customers that we are targeting for. So they are working different. Some are doing reservations and some don't.

Okay. Great. On the -- look, we've been talking a lot about the momentum and the outlook for Metrology with an acceleration anticipated in the second half. Could you maybe just give us a little bit of an idea of how you're thinking about Material Solutions? Because from what I understand, if we're looking at a similar level in Q1 relative to Q4, that implies, again, quite a significant decline again quarter-on-quarter from a Material Solutions perspective. So looking at Material Solutions, do you expect a bit more of a sustainable growth over the year? Or is it still going to be quite volatile quarter-over-quarter?

Material Solutions has one special effect that always comes, again, as sometimes we are talking about higher order volumes that are getting placed and that also is combined sometimes depending from where order comes from with prepayments that we are waiting for until we are disclosing the orders. So there are some of these effects included. And on the other hand side, as there are significant investment packages that are placed that in relation to each quarter can be a little diverse. So yes, there will be some volatility in that as that counting on quarters for Material Solutions is something that's not really sufficient.

Okay. So just thinking about the stepping stones from '26 to '27 because you guided us during your prelims to a number significantly above EUR 300 million for '27. So thinking about the math around that, it would be fair to assume that we probably have to see a bit of an improvement in orders, a bit more sustainable recovery and material -- not even recovery, just sustainable growth really in Material Solutions. Is that something that you see from a pipeline perspective?

Yes.

Yes. Okay. Cool. And then just lastly, could you tell us a little bit more about the indium phosphide market there? I do understand the exposure to the end markets. But I'd just like to get a bit more color around the potential that you see there. You mentioned that you are about to deliver a few machines in the second half of '26. So I'm just trying to get a better sense of -- because you also mentioned -- well, it will probably grow further beyond '26 -- beyond the second half of '26, obviously. So just thinking about the EUR 500 million target. Is this technology already a good chunk of that EUR 500 million? Or is it still negligible? And if you could just give us a bit more color as well on the competitive environment there, that would be quite interesting.

So this technology is something that underlines our development to our midterm growth. We see the first systems that we are having final in our books now. But looking at the market and the dynamic in that material, which is, as said, for photonic chips used for the connection between data centers, there is a significant increase in that development in the market that we are observing from the announcements that have been placed in the market and the reviews of the reports that we are seeing. So we expect that, that will also come into our books. We are prepared for that. As crystal growing method is developed, so systems are in place, and it's just about a matter of time.

And just on the competitive environment, who else is supplying these machines?

So it's more an in-house thing rather than an external. So free available systems are limited.

Understood. Are there any players out there that actually already developed crystal growing equipment in indium phosphide that you know of?

We are very well positioned in that market, I would say.

Gustav Froberg is next.

Can you hear me?

Yes.

I just have one actually. Could you give us a bit more color on the regional split of the order intake in Metrology? I know you've mentioned it sort of in piecemeal throughout the call, but any further color on regional split in Metrology and how you also expect this regional split to evolve as we progress through 2026?

Yes, I think it's fair to assume that the picture we are seeing in the revenues and in the order intake, it's a combination which can be applied to Metrology in the order intake. So it's strong contributions coming from the U.S., but also from Asia.

Okay. Great. And just actually a quick follow-up, if I like -- or if I may, just on prepayments. So with this order intake that you are seeing at the moment, are you also seeing a commensurate amount of prepayments for these and sort of -- to firm up the orders, if you like? And I'm particularly interested in what you've seen so far in Q1.

You're referring to Metrology or to Material Solutions or in general?

It would be nice to have a general comment, but yes, maybe in particular on Metrology.

Thank you. In Metrology, prepayments are more unusual. So we're here financing the working capital ourselves when we're building the orders. But in general, we are expecting quite good inflow from prepayments in Q1.

All right. Thank you. Edwin de Jong is next.

Edwin, can you hear us?

I think you're still muted.

Is this better?

Yes, now.

Sorry for that. Forgot to push the button. A couple of questions for Markus. In the EBITDA, there are some extra costs this year, the EUR 18 million, the EUR 5 million and the EUR 30 million. Should -- if we add that to the guidance for this year, for the EBITDA guidance, should we take like EUR 62 million to EUR 67 million more or less EBITDA as a base number to compare to 2027? Or am I completely wrong there?

So I mean, if you take the numbers from the Capital Markets Day, we guided there for ratios in distribution, admin and R&D. And I think we're here on the good track there. So you can expect that the relatively share of distribution and admin will reduce and that we're seeing a slight increase in R&D on our way to '28.

Okay. And the EUR 18 million, the first part, what was it, additional costs in -- yes. I forgot what it was. Is that also expected to continue in 2027? Or should we also see a diminishment there?

So from the EUR 18 million, EUR 13 million are recurring costs from the scale up, and these will kind of slowly increase with the revenue, because the cost base would slightly increase. But the one-off of EUR 5 million, these are nonrecurring, and we expect them to reduce in 2027.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Clear. And then on silicon carbide, so I have to say, in the last call, you were finished with the -- you said that you're finishing the project, the 8-inch process for this year. And now we're going obviously for the 12-inch process. But is it expected that you already get some revenues from the 8-inch part as well this year? Or how should we see that development?

We lost you for a short time, but I think I got your question. That process development is not meant as that we are selling material afterwards. That process development is supporting the system development and improving the system for getting better yield, for a higher level of automation, for better process stability. And that process development activities that we have done over the last months have been [indiscernible] what we were working on. So with that outcome that we are providing now, 300-millimeter technology to the market and discussing first R&D project with customers, we already have that success from the development work that we invested.

On the other hand side, the step into that process technology for silicon carbide brought us also to new materials like aluminum nitride that was also something that we start because it's the same technology setup. So physical data transport is also the system technology, which is behind that, and it's a similar -- not a similar process, but for us, it's important to invest in that and to improve the technology and prepare the technology to be ready for market entry. It's more about the systems and improvement of the systems rather than on the material side.

Yes. Yes, clear. And is there already, let's say, a material contribution to revenues from these 2 developments on both aluminum nitride and the 300-millimeter?

So 300-millimeter technology, as I said, is in discussion with -- for R&D projects with customers. So we expect to receive orders for first systems within 2026. And aluminum nitride is early-stage material. So it's a development that we are doing together with institutes to get the material developed. And so we are providing system technology and improving system technology and together develop the process for that with our industrial partners.

Okay. And then the other material where we talked about a lot this call is indium phosphide, of course. So I think, in the Netherlands, we now have a foundry doing indium phosphide wafers or processing indium phosphide wafers. Are you connected to that party, SMART Photonics?

We are connected to institutes for R&D on the process side. So this is normally our concept that we are working with partners and institutes. And we are having the system technology available for that material.

Okay. Okay. And then lastly, I saw that there's obviously a lot of uncertainty at the moment in the world, but also in the markets. And there are all kinds of material shortages popping up, I guess, in semis, it's especially helium at the moment. Is there anything that affects you in the disruption of those supply chains? Or are you completely fine?

This is something where we are having a close look to, and this is exactly what we are aiming for with the diversification of our activities to identify the materials that are important for future applications and start R&D work and system technology development on that material. So this is the aim for our technology hub, to have a close look on that development. It's also, for example, in indium phosphide, it's not about only the crystal growing. It's also about the cleanings of indium that's important for us. So technology for cleaning indium is also part of that.

Clear, clear. And maybe if there's room for one more question.

Just one, Edwin.

Okay. That is on the qualification process of Metrology. So the Taiwanese part is finished now, the American part is finished. How are we going in Korea?

Yes, I said we delivered the first system to a customer in Korea. Finally delivered, which means that one process is closed.

And that's one for the HBMs, I would guess, for HBM memory?

On the memory side.

All right. Thank you so much, everyone, and we would like to apologize for the network connection problems that we experienced today. We will make sure that this won't happen again. And if you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

But with that, we would like to close today's call, and thank you very much for attending. Have a great day.

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to today's earnings call of the PVA TePla AG following the publication of the figures for the first -- for the third quarter of 2025 and the first 9 months.

In a second, CEO, Jalin Ketter; and CFO, Markus Groß will present our results. And after the presentation, as usual, you will have the opportunity to ask your questions in a Q&A session. And having said this, Ms. Ketter, the stage is yours.

Thanks, Sebastian, and also good morning from my side to our earnings call of the third quarter. Before we start with the presentation, let me give you some general remarks. The economic situation around us is still challenging, and it was getting even worse in the third quarter as, yes, it materialized in our operational business at the end of the third quarter. But we also see a very positive development in our order book and a very good start into the fourth quarter. And what makes me even more positive for that long-term development, we see the first R&D projects that are starting to contribute to our order book with, yes, contracts from battery development projects that we started during the year 2023 and 2024 and 2025.

Yes. So let's have a look to the third quarter. We ended the third quarter with a revenue volume of EUR 55.8 million in revenue. This is significantly lower than we expected before, and we are also not satisfied with that development. That low revenue volume is not related to internal delays in the processing of orders. It's an external effect, which is caused by external reasons such as global trade-related uncertainties, which came to delays in the operational timing at our customer site. And it is a temporary situation that we are in. So we did not see any cancellations, and we also don't expect any cancellations in that regard.

Let me give you some examples on that. So there have been customers which are having longer authorization processes to get the systems on site and to make all that approvals for transportation. There have been customers which have decided to bring the system into a different facility than it was planned before. So we had to reschedule everything, transportation and installation. And we also had customers which having delays in their own infrastructure. So building was not ready to move in the system yet.

But let me explain a little bit more what does that mean when we look ahead for the next quarter. So we already planned a very busy fourth quarter. That's something that you already realized in the last call. So end of the year was already scheduled as very busy with installations and transportations on our projects. So resources for these projects already have been assigned and delays that we are now having from the third quarter, which are having a higher volume of transportation and installation bringing to the fourth quarter again will also most likely delay orders in processing from the fourth quarter to 2026. And with the reduction of our guidance to EUR 235 million to EUR 255 million, we also did cover potential further delays that are caused by similar external reasons at our customer site.

With the CMD that we hold 6 weeks ago, we gave you an insight in our future growth potentials on the long run. And there are no changes to our view on that presentation that we gave to you. This already reflects partly in our increasing order intake, which, as I already mentioned at the very beginning, projects which are building the foundation of that future growth in the metrology business with new customers that we developed out of Asia for automated systems. But also in the Material Solutions area, where now the first R&D projects are starting to contribute. So new battery solutions that are coming to the market over the next years are produced partly with our systems, and these are production lines which are starting to ramp up now.

And with that general view, I hand over to Markus to give you a deep dive to the financials.

Thank you, Jalin. Good morning, and a warm welcome from my side. So let's directly dive into our financials and start with the group revenue. Q3 and the year-to-date figures are below our expectations, especially for Q3 and around 11% below the comparison periods. Q3 with EUR 55.8 million is impacted by the trade-related uncertainties Jalin just mentioned, which have effects on the operational timing and shifting projects from Q3 to Q4. So many of the projects we have originally anticipated for or planned for Q3 are now realized in Q4. And this year pattern is through several projects across markets and product groups.

The project completions and the situation are expected to normalize during the first half of 2026. And it's very important to us to -- and we can't stress this enough. There are no delay-related cancellations. The delays we're seeing are a couple of weeks. It's not that projects are paused indefinitely, and we're waiting for go ahead. It's just shifting from one quarter to the other. And on the opposite, several customers have placed additional orders despite having delayed projects in the meantime. So that's absolutely nothing we are currently worrying about that delays are turning into cancellations.

Looking at our product groups, we can see that metrology is still a strong contributor to our revenues with almost EUR 72 million and Materials Solutions with EUR 104 million. Regional-wise, Europe and Asia are our most important markets and North America with 13% is our third biggest market. And when we're looking at the order intake on the next slide, we'll see that there is growth potential coming just from the order book for the upcoming months.

Order intake is something where we are very happy about the development, almost EUR 33 million in Q3. That's our strongest quarter since the third quarter of 2023. And here, the order intake is driven from demand in both segments and product groups in all entities. So we're very happy here. The book-to-bill ratio in Q3 is with 1.3, something we haven't seen in a long time. And year-to-date with almost EUR 177 million, the book-to-bill ratio is also larger than 1.

Looking at the product groups, metrology is still a strong driver for us, and we will see on the next slide, how this has developed over the last 12 months. But also, we're seeing an increasing demand coming from material solutions, which makes us very happy at the current stage here.

Looking at the regional split, we can see that Asia and Europe are contributing by approximately 40% and North America with 20% in comparison to the revenues of 13% we have seen on the previous slide. That's why we're expecting here future growth coming from the order book.

Yes, the last 12 months, looking at our product groups here, we can see a strong double-digit order growth of 20% per quarter. And in Materials Solutions, the uptick started with Q1 2025, going from 21% in the half, approximately to EUR 21.5 million to EUR 25 million and now in Q3 with almost EUR 42 million. And the drivers here are coming from the synthesis for silicon carbide systems and high-tech anode materials are also here involved.

In metrology, it's more a pattern of steps. So we are seeing EUR 30 million in Q3, then Q4 '24 and Q1 '25 with a little bit more than EUR 21 million. And now in Q2 and Q3, it's above EUR 30 million. So very happy with this development here.

Looking at the segments individually, we can see that here, in Semiconductor Systems, the revenue is impacted in Q3 by these timing effects and is 18% below the previous year. And the 9 months figures was EUR 115 million, up 15% below the previous year.

On the EBITDA, we see a temporary effect in Q3 due to the lower revenue volume and high expenses in R&D and sales for future growth, strategic investments. And we are seeing here a high degree of fixed costs. So this is why we see this strong impact on the EBITDA and its margin for Q3. Year-to-date, it's more or less in line with the guidance despite the missing volume in Q3. So this is more or less what we anticipated for the 9 months figures without the effect coming from the operational timing effect.

The order intake is something we are very happy about. So it's the best quarter in semiconductor systems since the first quarter of 2023. Metrology was a strong driver during the whole year. And now with Synthesis, we are seeing additional uptick in the third quarter.

In the Industrial Systems segment, the Q3 revenues are more or less in line with what we have seen in 2024 and the 9 months figures are a bit below the previous year. This is especially caused by the lower intakes in 2024 and the long-term running projects we are having in the Industrial Systems segment. At the EBITDA and EBITDA margin levels, we are seeing here a reduction on a quarterly basis of EUR 1 million, which is also the same for the 9 months figures that we're here in preparation for future growth, investing in our sales infrastructure, which is increasing the overheads by approximately EUR 700,000 at the year-to-date level.

The order intake is stable at EUR 20 million per quarter, more or less, and the demand is here coming from the energy and aerospace sector, but also in Q3, high performance materials, the already mentioned anode materials.

Looking at the group profit, we can see that the gross profit margin has reduced from 30.8% down to 29.4%. The main reasons here being the weaker sales and the lower volume causes your lower capacity utilization, which is taking its toll. But also, we've seen on the previous slides that semiconductor systems is below the comparison quarter and Industrial Systems is more or less at the same level or a little bit higher. And this means we are seeing here a shift in the product mix in Q3, which will not be continued, but it's the picture we are seeing here currently in Q3. And due to this change in the mix, we are losing a little bit of gross margin. But on the year-to-date 9-months figures, we remain at a solid level of 32%.

The EBITDA on the -- in Q3 and year-to-date are both impacted by the increased overheads for the strategic investments in sales and R&D, we already announced together with our guidance, and we are following through.

So let me also take a moment to reflect on the lower cash balance at the end of the quarter with approximately EUR 13 million. The position here is impacted by the timing of customer payments, which had been received in October. We're talking about larger payments. And for Q4, so far, we're expecting strong inflows, which are also supported by a continued order intake momentum. So we're here seeing a timing effect in the cash position, which has already been reverted in the October of year -- in the last month.

In terms of CapEx, we remain disciplined and are broadly in line with what we have spent in the prior year until the year's end then. And we're actively managing our CapEx project and the same goes, obviously for our OpEx.

Looking at our updated guidance, we are now expecting revenues between EUR 235 million and EUR 255 million and an EBITDA between EUR 25 million to EUR 30 million. This is due to the multiple times now mentioned project timing shifts operational-wise. And for '26, we're expecting a gradual recovery in growth versus '25. And earlier than usual, we will release our official guidance for '26 together with the preliminary figures for the year '25 latest early February '26.

So for a strategic update and the outlook, I'm handing back over to Jalin.

Thanks, Markus. In this section, we now also included an update to our organizational development that we will give you on a regular base. Today, I brought you 3 samples on efficiency.

So let's start with a view on our production line and what we changed there and what developments are there. You know that we are running several production lines from different facilities. These are also including service and installation teams, which are used for single products to make the installation and to do the service. And what we have done and started in 2025 is to increase our flexibility for these people. So we cross-trained the people who are responsible for that single systems to be able to support different products that we are providing to the market.

So for example, this is something that is happening in a higher amount on the Material Solutions side. The people from the Material Solutions side are now also supporting metrology systems in the field, and that helped us already with the qualification on our new customers in Asia to be able to support that product in the field as they are having a lot of know-how on the technical side in general, and now they are also educated in the Metrology business.

And additional trainings also have been set up for technical and operational development to bring the people to a higher level of education and also -- which also supports the changes that we are at the moment doing in our production line. We, for example, introduced a new shop floor management that is happening every morning in the production line. The availability of our materials have been significantly increased to reduce the time that our products are running through the production line. So there are new processes behind and new concepts, how we are producing our system. And the use of the facility also changed somehow to really use that in the most efficient way, having the right systems in the right production lines running with the right concept.

So this is done because on the one hand side, we want to reduce the time that our products are running through the production line. On the other hand side, we are seeing a positive impact on the long run in our margin development with that, changes that we are doing now. And additionally to that, we started a project to more standardize and modularize our products. This is something that we already have done on the metrology side with the systems in a high automation that we are providing to the market now. And we laid that concept out also for the material solution systems now. So there will be changes that we will see over the next years as well on that side.

And yes, due to our high position of silicon carbide activities in our order intake that -- sorry, I missed to do the rest of the slide, sorry for that. So let's go also to some other activities that we did next to the production line. In China, we streamlined our operations with consolidating -- transferring our location of Xian to also the office in Beijing that we are running there. In previous times, we had 2 offices and the office in Xian was just responsible for one product line. So it's going in the same direction like what we have done on the production side to really use our resources most efficient also to generate one PVA for the Chinese market and present ourselves in the right way on the market. So this is bringing us efficiency on the cost structure side, but also in how we are developing the market for us.

And the last point I would like to mention in terms of the organizational development is on the metrology side. With the Capital Markets Day, we also explained that on the metrology side, something very important is that we are ramping up our production line in a format to support a higher volume and to hire -- to professionalize our processes in the production line. In the beginning of the year, we acquired desconpro and did a vertical integration with this company, which was a former supplier. And the integration process is done now. So our teams are working very closely together, interfaces are cleared and the workflow is running very well.

Additionally to that, we increased our clean room capacity in 200 square meters to have the right facility also available for a higher volume of automated systems. And this gives us -- lays the foundation for a doubling of our production capacity on the automated metrology side in the future. So we are prepared to go for that for that through the market development.

So let's come now to some insights in the market. You saw that we had a higher portion of silicon carbide activities in our books in the order intake for Q3. So I would like to take the opportunity to give you some idea about our view on the market trends that we are seeing coming up additionally to the business activities that we are seeing in silicon carbide before. So what we saw now in our books is related to the already existing activities, which are going mostly in the energy and e-mobility market. And this is also what you can find in the normal reports that you -- that are available on the market.

Additional topic that came more and more in the discussion is the defense sector. So applications were silicon -- based on silicon carbide are very important for that sector, for example, for radar technology, where this is used, and this is something where we see a potential increase in activities additionally to the already established products.

There are also 2 new topics that we identified or that are also already in discussion on the market. One is transparent silicon carbide, which then will be used, for example, for VR glasses. So some new developments on the use of how digitalization is changing for us, all of us in the future. And there is a use in advanced packaging as well for interposer materials, so in building cooling structures in that part and power supply for artificial intelligence data centers. And with the products that we are at the moment having in design and our R&D road map, we are covering all of these trends.

So for example, for all of these applications, there will be a trend into a 300-millimeter process. So diameters are going up in silicon carbide, and we will introduce our 300-millimeter system into the market in 2026 and present that to customers. So we are prepared for these new applications with a change of our system technology to support that. And additionally to that, we see a strong trend for the sovereignty of supply chain. So especially coming with the applications in the defense sector and the presence of the material and the discussions about, in general, sovereignty of the supply chains in Europe are increasing step by step.

Yes. So when you look back overall -- we all look back on what has happened in 2025, then we see a very strong development on the organizational site already within PVA. So we brought people together to get them introduced to our way forward. Our engagement index on employees is more than 70%. So everyone is with us on that road. We started to be more active in the market and changed or started to change sales concepts to present our products at customer site, reviewing the markets, bringing our products in connections with the markets, and we started to also streamline our organization with consolidations of facilities, improvement of facilities. And this is something that we will continuously work on also in 2026 to further lay the foundation of that future growth.

So a lot has happened in 2025 already, and we are very motivated to continue with that process. And yes, that's all for now. Thanks, and we are happy to take your questions now.

All right. Thank you, Jalin and Markus, and we will now move to the Q&A portion of this call. And we want to make sure that we are able to answer as many questions as possible from as many people as possible. And it's why we kindly ask you to, sorry, limit yourself to maybe 3 questions per person, if that's possible, that would be really great.

And first up, we have Marisa Keskes.

Actually, I have 3. And the first is, can you specify if the equipment that have been delayed are related to metrology or silicon crystal growing system or the other material solution system?

The second question is, can you provide an update regarding the ongoing qualification process for the metrology?

And the third question, if you can quantify how much are the order received from -- for the silicon carbide growing system? And is it coming from new customer or already existing customer? And if the shipment is expected for '26 or beyond?

So here, the delays we're seeing, it's across all product groups and customers. So there is no clear pattern because all our customers are managing the global situation. And so it's not specific to a product group or a customer group.

And on the qualification side in metrology, we are making a lot of progress. So already orders from that qualification processes are taking part in our order book, which are coming from Asia, especially from Taiwan, we have a good volume already in our books, and we introduced additional systems at other countries already to R&D centers to go on that qualification stage for the 24/7 lines.

Silicon carbide systems are related to applications that are already present in the market. We, of course, cannot disclose on single customers. So activities which are behind that are supporting already existing technologies.

But the revenue can be expected for '26.

Michael Kuhn, please.

I'll also stick to 3. Firstly, on metrology, there was no further growth in order intake sequentially. So we're in the low 30s now. Is that kind of a near-term run rate? Or should we expect that number to grow sequentially as we move into 2026?

So metrology business has had a significant increase over the last quarters. And we are now on a level which is already significantly higher. I think I already mentioned that in one of our last calls. So we expect that, that hockey stick is getting a little bit more flat over that short-term time frame until it's getting to a more significant increase again. So like expectation for the next quarters is more a slight growth rather than a significant growth.

Understood. Then into the fourth quarter, you mentioned continuously strong order momentum and also you received further prepayments based on that. Is that also driven, let's say, by a broad base of customers and product groups? Or would you point out a specific area of strength you're seeing right now?

And so what we see as a starting point into Q4 is a very broad base of customers that are placing their orders. So we started very positively into the first quarter, and our pipeline also tells us that we can close with a very positive fourth quarter. There are projects which are more semiconductor related that we are seeing at the moment.

Okay, semi-driven. And then lastly, and that is a kind of broader question. So you expect a gradual recovery into 2026. And I guess that refers to sales and your bottom line. You mentioned more and more R&D projects contributing to the top line new areas in SiC, but battery as well. If you would have to make like an early projection, how significant will those new product groups contribute? And what kind of mix should we expect into next year? And what would be the, let's say, very rough implications for profitability? Obviously, you're not guiding yet.

So the R&D projects are in a starting point to contribute, especially on the battery side. So we stepped into several R&D projects with new system developments that are used for that advanced anode materials with customers. And we are at the moment in an area where customers are having qualifying production lines for that. And we see the first orders, which are now coming not only from the qualifying production lines anymore, which are coming from increasing activities into a steady business. This is something where we will see a step-by-step development coming -- contributing to our book. So we expect already business activities in 2026, but also ahead of 2026 as this is a long-term development in the market, especially in Europe, which we see to generate a step forward in battery technology compared to what we are seeing in the actual availability of batteries. So a significant step to improve that technology.

And on the silicon carbide side, we will start to introduce our new systems in 2026. Most likely, the contribution of our activities will start end of 2026, beginning of 2027.

Okay. Thank you. All right. Hartmut Moers is next.

Can you hear me?

Yes.

Perfect. So I would like to follow up on that silicon carbide. If I understood you correctly, you were saying that the increase in order intake was relating to customer relationships that were already there. So I would guess that you have quite a good insight into their thinking about future orders. So can we regard that order intake in Q3 on the silicon carbide side as something that was -- not saying a one-off, but how should I say, extraordinary and then we wait a couple of quarters and then the next order comes? Or is it more something that we should see now on a regular basis or quarter-by-quarter? That would be my first question.

We are seeing silicon carbide activities already continuously in our books. So as I said, this is related to applications that are already existing in the market, what has had a higher portion now. And what we also see that our activities on the metrology side for silicon carbide are starting to bring activities to our discussions as well. We just recently introduced qualified metrology systems for inspection of silicon carbide, pools and wafers, stress measurement and pool inspection. And this is something where we also have a lot of discussions and traffic with customers to introduce our systems in their facilities. So silicon carbide for us is not only anymore crystal growing. It's happening on different areas of that value chain, and this is starting to show up in our books already.

Okay. But the predominant part of the, let's say, additional order intake that you got in the third quarter was still related to the traditional silicon carbon side. It's not just -- it's not already the metrology side, it's more the crystal growing side, right?

The dominant part is coming from -- so this is technology and crystal growth, yes.

Okay. And my second point would be with regard to your statements in relation to [ 2006 ] (sic) 2026. Shall we take from this that the delays that you are facing in Q3 and that translate into Q4 and obviously, from Q4 into Q1 2026, that the start of 2026, i.e., Q1 and probably also Q2 will still be affected before growth is picking up in the second half of the year. Is that how we shall read this guidance?

No. So I mean we're -- on the operational side, we expect that orders have already shifted from Q3 to Q4 and from Q4 into '26, and we expect that the situation will normalize during the first half of '26. But that's a gradual process there. And here and -- but the long-term growth drivers are intact for '26.

Okay. So you're saying Q2 should be less affected than Q1 2026 and Q3 and Q4 2026 should not be affected by those delays anymore, right?

We are having -- it's a problem on customer side that we are handling this and delays that are happening on customer side. So this is most relevant for orders that have been placed in our books before the political situation and that area was increasing even more than it has done before. So we are expecting also that orders that have been placed already in that more strong situation are not affected anymore by this kind of delays on customer side. So it will run out of the book step by step that there is a kind of delay that is caused by the projects and how customers are running them and how they are doing their decision on facilities.

All right. Thank you. Gustav Froberg is next.

I have a couple also. I'll start with one on orders. Could you please just give a little bit more color and granularity on how your order patterns were throughout Q3 and maybe also how they've developed into the first half of the fourth quarter? And in the context of that, maybe you can also tell us a little bit about the status of the customer ramp-up that you are seeing on the metrology side. Are customers in an early stage of ramping up? Are they well underway? Like how saturated are your machines with your new or existing customers today?

So order intake on the third quarter was running month by month very positive. So there is not something that was more present. There was no month which was more present than another one. It was very stable development over that time. And in the Q4, we already started on a similar level than we saw before.

The ramp-up on customer side in the metrology is in a very early stage, and we see a demand all over that customer base, including also existing customers that we already developed over the last years.

Great. And then a question on order intake coming from Asia. You very nicely gave us a pie chart of order intake by region. Could you give us a little bit more granularity on the region there, which countries are bigger and smaller within that pie? And do you expect that mix of countries from an order perspective to change over the course of 2026?

Yes. So the order intake on the regional level in Asia, yes, let's say, coming to become more dominant in countries where we are having semiconductor-related activities. And this is something that we will see more increasing also over the year 2026 that Asia is becoming more dominant in countries where also bigger semiconductor customers are sitting. I think that gives a little bit color on your questions and where you wanted to go for that.

Great. Yes, it does indeed. Last one from me. Just on the sequential nature of metrology, just a follow-up from a previous question. You said you're at a level where you feel like this is a new normal for a couple of quarters now, the sort of EUR 30 million run rate. Is that the right way to interpret it? Or should we still expect some degree of sequential growth in metrology orders, albeit obviously not doubling every quarter?

Yes. As I said, that's -- it's now on a base where we see a more slight growth over the next time rather than significant increases on the short run.

All right. Thank you. Constantin Hesse is next.

All right. I've got 3 questions. Let's start with order intake, just following up on what Gustav said. I'm just wondering, look, I understand short-term metrology order, we are at this level now, and you don't expect any major changes from this level in the coming quarters. But just to understand, right, because we do want to understand, you do have this EUR 500 million target in '28. So in terms of the next stage of more accelerated growth in metrology, when would you anticipate that to happen? And what visibility do you currently have that, that will happen? That's the first question.

Yes. We are seeing -- so that's something that's laying on customer side and the extension of their production capacities that they are planning to cover that higher volume of production capacity in chip production as well. So for us, it's on the one hand side, the number of customers that we are qualifying ourselves for, which is also on our side and which we are developing very positive with.

So one major player in the semiconductor area also already is qualified. The second one is already using or starting to use system to qualify in 24/7 levels. So we were positive of that development as well, different country. And we also have discussions with additional players, which are a little bit smaller than the ones that we were talking about. And on that side, we are involved in the discussions about ramp-up plans, of course. And these ramp-up plans show us that there will be a higher activity starting from more end of 2026, beginning of '27, where they are moving in more capacity.

Okay. So basically, visibility for that is relatively low. But in terms of timing, you'd expect end of '26 to see a bigger pickup. Understood.

And then maybe just on sales and P&L. I mean, just trying to figure out these delays, right? I mean the answer was that it's all related to customer decisions. Those are customer delays. I guess we understand all that. But what I'm trying to figure out now is, if I look at consensus, right, consensus has EUR 300 million in revenues next year. That's 20% growth.

So what I'm trying to figure out is, if I look at the qualitative wording that you used for '26, it sounds more conservative, much more conservative. It sounds like you expect a gradual recovery in the P&L in '26. So what I'm trying to figure out is how -- what are the confidence levels that these delays that happened in Q3 will actually be realized in 2026? And I guess that will also obviously give you a boost, right, on top of the underlying growth that you're seeing. So just trying to figure out the dynamics of how you -- how -- on top of the underlying growth, when all these delays should start to come in? Because I understood those delays were going into the first half of '26. So second question.

Yes, we are very confident that all these delays we're seeing coming from Q4 will be resolved in the first half of '26. And then we will, late January, early February, release our official guidance for '26.

Okay. But on top of these delays, you do still expect underlying growth, correct?

As said, the delays are contributing to 2026 and the official guidance will be announced at the beginning of the year.

Okay. Understood. And then just on the margin development, just trying to figure out here in terms of your OpEx investments. I mean, clearly, you are investing in order to support the growth profile of the company. So just to understand the building blocks leaving '25 going into '26, how we should think about these profitability building blocks into next year?

Yes. So we're -- the ramp-up in sales is more or less on the level we're expecting looking at the current -- what we're seeing for '26. There will be some increases in the sales. But in general, we are at the level where we want to go for the future growth for now.

I meant the -- in terms of margin development. So in terms of the potential headwinds into next year or tailwinds. So if -- with next year, you expect an improvement in revenue and then in terms of the additional cost investments, so do you expect to start seeing an absorption of fixed costs already next year? Or should we expect continued basically headwinds on the profitability next year of additional investments?

Okay. No, we already said, yes, we're expecting growth in comparison to '25, and with the building blocks set, the margins will improve there.

All right. Thank you. Bastian Brach, please.

Can you hear me?

Yes.

So I keep it short because most of my questions have already been answered, but one remains on the North American market and especially the order intake there, which was quite positive compared to previous like sales split. Is there any measure you would point out which contributed to this good order intake? Was it like early signs that your increased support or increased sales activities like bear fruit? Or was there any market you would point out which did exceptionally well? Or was it like what based?

Yes. So this is already a sign or a result on higher activity on our side, yes, developing the market. We significantly increased our sales activities being present in the market. And yes, system technology is something which is important for the U.S. market, especially in the area of aerospace, but also semiconductor applications where systems are used. And this is also the areas where we see contribution to the order book now coming from, on the one hand side, also the business that we acquired in France, which is mostly related to the aerospace industry.

So synthesis technologies for coating of silicon carbide on turbine blades, for example, but also on graphite materials for the semiconductor industry is strong development and joining technologies on the side of our normal Material Solutions business also is something which is very important for us in this market. So nice development and first signs of our activities that we increased in that market.

Okay. So you would expect that to continue that the North American order intake would be at this level as a split overall or even higher in the future quarters and years, right?

Yes, of course, that's our aim to significantly increase the North American business.

All right. So we still have a couple of minutes left. Are there any additional questions that you may want to ask? Okay. If that's not the case, then thank you very much for joining us today. And yes, have a good day.