Orion Aktie

Good afternoon, and greetings from sunny Helsinki. Welcome to Orion's Half Year Financial Report January-June 2026 Conference Call and Webcast. My name Tuukka Hirvonen, and I'm the Head of IR here at Orion. In a few moments, our CEO, Liisa Hurme, will go through the results and key events of the reported period, after which you will have then the possibility to ask questions in the Q&A session from Liisa and also from CFO, René Lindell.

[Operator Instructions]. We will start with the conference call lines and then turn on to the webcast chat. For our Finnish viewers information that there will be a Finnish speaking interview of CEO, Liisa Hurme available on Orion's Internet page later this afternoon. And just before letting Liisa to take over a brief reminder about the forward-looking statements in the presentation. And with these words, it's my pleasure to hand over to Liisa.

Thank you, Tuukka, and good afternoon on my behalf as well. We have once again delivered a strong quarter. Our net sales growth accelerated and also profitability improved during Q2. This was driven by Nubeqa royalties and product sales and also our branded product in research and development, we reached several key milestones especially with ODM-212, and I will discuss that molecule later on in more detail.

In Q2, our net sales increased by 25%, totaling EUR 522 million and operating profit increased by 69%. Being -- 34%, resulting in 34% of per EUR 8 billion, and earnings per share was EUR 1. And of course, in our net sales development, innovative medicines was the main driver by EUR 95 million. But also when we look at branded products and the size of the Branded Products division, EUR 10.3 million is a significant growth rate. All the other businesses were more or less on par.

And on operating profit, the volume increased our profit by 17 -- the volume growth increased our profit by EUR 17.3 million. Again, royalty is playing a key role here by close to EUR 77 million. We have also finalized the liquidation of our Russian operations and the cost of that, the final cost of that liquidation, EUR 3.3 million is included now here in other expenses. And fixed cost, EUR 15 million is according to our plan as we widen and progress our research and development pipeline, accelerate our sales. And part of it also in the sales and marketing costs include the increase of the royalties to Endo as the Nubeqa sales performed well.

And now I move to the first half of this year from January to June, a very much similar type of figures here. Growth or the increase by 22%, totaling of EUR 939 million during the first 6 months of EUR 1 million and with operating profit margin of 31%. And earnings per share, EUR 1.64.

And innovative medicines, which clearly is the driver for the growth. Here, we can see Q2 numbers on the left and then the first half in the middle and it's really more than 60% growth, both on the quarter 2 and during the first 6 months. Royalty is playing the biggest role and then smaller share of other services to our partners. Figure with the columns on different orders where we can once again underline the dynamics of the Nubeqa royalty growth for Orion or income grow to Orion. It's very, very back-end loaded during 1 financial year.

If you look at here, the Q1 '26 and compare it to this previous quarter, Q2, a significant increase in royalties, but also in tablet deliveries to Bayer. I think we've also previously stated that the tablet deliveries may vary between the quarters. And this -- Branded Products Q2 was strong, as I mentioned, almost 13% growth compared to the previous year's Q2.

The biggest increase came in percentage was in women's health with our Divina product range replacement therapy. Easyhaler franchise grew 7% and there, the combination product budesonide-formoterol contributed. CNS growth was -- it was actually decreasing. The net sales was decreasing slightly due to the price changes or price decrease in some of our global markets -- and maybe quarter 2 previous year's quarter 2 annual give us year. The decline line, a very slight decline here comes from the generic risk.

Encryption drugs as the consumer health products actually are growing with a healthy percentage. I can't resist to say here that probably not include the legacy product, the generic business growth was 2%, a very healthy growth percentage for a generic business in Europe. And we've also made a license agreement for new biosimilar for European rights of Nivolumab with Shilpa, a partner that we are already developing products, but now we have a new biosimilar. And we are expecting to launch that in 2030.

Animal Health had a bit more tough quarter in Q2. But let's remember that the previous year's Q2 was, if not all-time high, but exceptionally high. So the comparison period was tough. And it's always a question of deliveries to our partners in this business. And when you look at then the first half of this year compared to the previous one, it's minus 2.4%, and we are expecting the growth to accelerate towards the rest -- latter part of the year.

We've also received very, very good news, an approval by FDA for a new product called Tessie. The molecule is tasipimidine. It's an oral solution for the anxiety and fear in dogs, especially if they go to the strange places or they need to experience new conditions and we expect our partner to start commercial sales in mid-'27.

And Fermion, external sales here almost 20% growth in Q2 and 17% during the first half of the year. Here, the delivery timing is all. So these are big quantities that we sell to our business-to-business customers. So we can clearly see that the first half of this year has been very busy in that front. And we had -- and I'm sharing this since there has been also news in Finnish by the Finnish broadcasting company and here in Finland in news that there was a water damage at one of the Fermion plants on Hanko site last week during the summer maintenance period, and we are fully recovering from that water damage and all the activities are implemented as we speak.

And based on our current understanding, this will not have a material effect or impact to Orion or any disruption to continuity of our key products and then product list tells the same story as the therapy areas or other divisions, but product by product. I'm not going to go that through in detail. But I think the key message on this slide is clearly that now already in Q2, innovative medicines is the biggest division in Orion. Generics being the second biggest and branded products, the third biggest division.

Our clinical development pipeline has stayed the same from the previous Q1 report. So no new projects included or no new stages entered. We already reported last time that we have studied the combination study with our TD inhibitor ODM-212. And now most of the readouts for these studies are actually in '27 or '28 like for Nubeqa studies and opevesostat studies. But we are expecting LEVEL study by 10x to be read out during the latter part of this year. And I already mentioned ODM 212, and let's look at it in -- let's look at that molecular in a bit more detail.

So ODM 212 is a DT inhibitor, and we develop it for certain cancers. It has 2 different mechanisms that we can use for the benefit of cancer patients. The one has to do with the Hippo pathway and some cancers are driven the tumor growth is driven by this Hippo pathway. So with this TEAD inhibitor which binds to the transcription factors, we can actually limit the growth of the tumor in these certain cancers. And currently, we are studying mesothelioma and EH. And these are very rare cancers where there is no specific treatment exactly for these cancers.

So if we can find a solution for patients, it would be really great and based on our Phase I results, we strongly believe so. The other part of the story for ATD inhibitor is that it can also prevent the resistance for some currently used cancer medication because it also limits some of the mechanisms that cells can develop to circumvent, for example, immune checkpoint inhibitors, chemotherapy or cross KRAS inhibitors.

And here, we talk about different cancer types like pancreatic cancer, non-small cell lung cancer and also on mesothelioma. So there are 2 ways to use T inhibitor, specifically for a certain cancer that is driven by this Hippo pathway or trying to prevent the resistance for currently used cancer medication. So this far, we have carried out Phase I study as a monotherapy using only 12 and we've seen very promising results on the efficacy. Of course, those are very early signals in mesothelioma and EHE and also, we have seen a very good side effect profile.

We know that in oncology, sometimes even a bit rougher side effect profile is approved. But here, we really can see that it's very well tolerated. And based on these results, which we actually announced in ASCO this year, we started a Phase II study for mesothelioma and EHG -- and this study is currently ongoing and expected to read out in late '27.

Based on this monotherapy study with ODM-212, we also initiated a combination study with some of the usually used drugs as the ones that I already mentioned, for pancreatic cancer cell, non-small cell lung cancer and mesothelioma. And as we think that we have a potentially best-in-class IT inhibitor in our hands, we also believe that if this study is successful, we can solve many problems that are related to the resistance of current medication, and this could become a drug of choice to be combined with those medications.

We've also received orphan drug designation in U.S. and Europe for mesothelioma. And that, of course, validates our belief that this is a very, very important study an important drug for patients. And the combination study results and the study is a Phase Ib/II study as we are also trying to find a suitable dosing for these combination studies before we go seamlessly to the Phase II. So this study readout is in '29.

Now to a very, very different topic, sustainability. Orion was listed, I think, for fifth or sixth time now as one of Europe's climate leaders by financial time this year. And I think this graph speaks for itself, as you can see how our emissions have decreased year-by-year. We started the program early on many, many years ago. And in 2019, we changed and switched fully to clean electricity, carbon-free electricity.

And then we've also done many, many different activities to be -- to reach our goal -- we have changed from crude oil in our steam production first to gas, then electricity, we have local heat stations in our campuses where we use the energy heat coming from our manufacturing facilities for the whole campus and we are also carrying out many different type of renovations to be as carbon neutral as possible. We also understand that there is a way to go.

And finally, I think the last piece of this will -- then the last piece of the emissions will then be compensated in the end. And today, we specified our outlook for this year. This is another quarter -- another strong quarter. So we thought that this is the place to do it. So we actually hiked up the lower range in our outlook by 50 million. So now the range for net sales is from EUR 2 billion to EUR 2.1 billion, and the range for our EBIT operating profit is from EUR 650 million to EUR 750 million. And here, you can see our upcoming events next time where we will be reporting in late October and then the full year report of '26 will be in the middle of February. I thank you for your attention.

Thank you, Liisa, for the presentation. And now it's time to open up the floor for questions. As I mentioned in the beginning, we will start with the conference call lines, but please do remember that you can also type in your questions by using the webcast chat function. But with this, I would like to hand over to the operator for the first questions, please.

[Operator Instructions]. The next question comes from Shan Hama from Jefferies.

Just 2 for me, please. Firstly, could you provide some color as to the big increase in tablet sales for back -- is it a good proxy for the remainder of the year? And then secondly, are you able to disclose which point during the quarter you reached the highest royalty tier and what the rate or at least the range of the rate is? Thank you very much.

I'll start and I'll let René to continue then on the royalty rate. So your question was on the tablet deliveries. And there is nothing kind of -- no secrets here, nothing strange there. It's really, as we've stated, we delivered tablets as based, of course, to Bayer's forecasts. Sometimes the deliveries and manufacturing campaigns just are timed in our manufacturing so that there is a bigger bunch of tablets sent out during 1 quarter. But then if it's a 1-day miss, then the deliveries and big numbers are seen on the next quarter.

So of course, the trend overall will be growing. The tablet deliveries will be growing. But there will still be maybe a variation between the quarter. So I think that's not a very good, how would I say, a key indicator for the future growth to look at it from 1 quarter to another quarter, if you want to estimate the growth of the Nubeqa at the marketplace. And maybe, René, if you want to say something about the royalty rate?

Yes. And to continue the tablet sales. Of course, we always have the maintenance break in our factories during the summertime. And of course, before that, we try to also build in a little bit more of shipments and those went out now nicely at the end of quarter. So you saw this big jump tablet sales.

But as Liisa said, it's not necessarily a change in either direction depending on how the big shipments go out. And then on the royalties, unfortunately, we can't disclose anything more further on that when it comes to the timing. We said that it was reached during Q2 the maximum tier. We haven't also disclosed what the maximum percentage are, but I'm sure you can be able to get to a reasonable range when you compare the numbers.

The next question comes from Iiris Theman from DNB Carnegie.

Hello, this is Iiris Theman from DNB Carnegie. I have several questions, and I'll take them one by one. So basically, the first one, what was the reason behind your guidance upgrade? And was it trade mainly by your Q2 performance? Or have you also upgraded your estimates for H2?

Yes. Thanks, Iiris, for the question. Of course, I mean, when we look at the first half of the year, we are having a good momentum, especially with Nubeqa. And we think that, that momentum will continue in the H2. And for that reason, we, of course, look at the whole full year situation, and that led us to upgrade the lower boundary of the range higher. And as we saw that, that lower boundary of course, the probability to land in there started to be very low in our scenarios.

Okay. And then secondly, sales of Divina increased a lot. Were there any difficulties with peer supplies that increased demand?

Thank you, Iiris, for the question. If I heard right, you are asking about the other company's supply. Did I get it right?

Well, exactly.

Thanks. Yes, we've seen and heard that there are actually some products, some patches that there is a stock out in the Nordic countries. And what we've seen actually during this year and even last year is, on average, 40% growth of Divigel, our Divina product portfolio, maybe even above 40% you could speculate that the additional maybe slightly under 10% could be a result of stock-outs of some other hormone replacement therapies. Because patients really have to go to see a doctor to get a new prescription for another product. So it's -- you can't really do the change at the pharmacy. So it really needs to go via a doctor. But clearly, it is a treatment that needs to be continued. So I could imagine that we see some of our growth or some of -- some of that stock out is -- can be seen in our growth.

Okay. And is that going to be still an issue in Q3?

Well, that's a very difficult question. I don't really know about the other companies' production capabilities. But as I said, we've seen a constant growth of around 40% for individual even without this competitor stock out. So I would estimate that the growth will continue even in the second half of this year at that rate, at least.

And thirdly, what is your current plan for ODM 212? Do you plan to develop it yourself? Or are you looking for a partner for Phase III study?

A very good question. Currently, we are not looking for a partner. We are running our studies, the Phase II by ourselves and our plan is to run the Phase III also by ourselves, especially for the monotherapy but also hopefully for the combination therapy. So there is no -- there are no plans currently to look for a partner.

And my final question is regarding tariffs. So what are your current expectations for this year? Regarding the impact from tariffs and what you assume for next year?

Well, I think, René could.

Yes. So the latest is that we assume that there will be tariffs for innovative pharma from Europe in the last quarter of this year or starting from beginning of October. And we have also in our forecast some impact for that, not a big one for this year. But of course, next year, with 4 full quarters if that impact comes, then of course, then it's a larger one in then, we have to see then how that is impacting us.

But of course, there is also some we have to see how it's calculated in the end. So I think that's also something which haven't been tested. But so far, I mean, this year impact is small next year, a bit bigger. And hopefully, it will not be a significant one, but we'll have to see how it develops.

The next question comes from Sami Sarkamies from Danske Bank Markets.

I've asked a couple of questions. We'll also be taking this one by one. Starting from Nubeqa. Firstly, you said that deliveries were on the high side in the second quarter, are you suggesting that we will see lower deliveries in the third and fourth quarters relative to the second quarter level?

Well, I think that's a fair assumption. In every year that in Q3, we do have the maintenance break. So there is at least 1 month. The maintenance break is usually even 4 to 6 weeks. So there is less manufacturing during the Q3. So that's usually less deliveries as well. But then again, in Q4, we are usually fully geared on. So then you might see this fluctuation again between the quarters.

Okay. And then I'm wondering, did you make any accounting catch-ups related to Nubeqa sales that you estimated in the first quarter of the year?

I mean, it's always there is some corrections that we do on a monthly basis. But I mean, we're not disclosing how much we correct on a monthly basis.

Exactly.

But typically, these are not very big. So we have a pretty good understanding and estimates on a monthly basis.

Okay. So probably nothing material in the second quarter, but maybe on the positive side.

Well, I said, nothing to comment on that side.

Okay. Then I was wondering about the firm incident in Hanko, you're not estimating any material financial impacts, but just curious could we see changes to, let's say, normal seasonality, for example, that you would not be able to deliver full volumes in the third quarter yet. So could this have like timing impacts, if we think about the rest of the year? Do you see a risk for additional costs -- and when do you expect to restore the production volumes in full?

Well, as we stated, we don't currently see any material effect of this damage to Orion or the supply of the product for the patients. Of course, it will take some time to get it prepared again to the full force. But as it is the maintenance break, it kind of goes as a part of that maintenance work now to get it fixed.

Okay. So I guess you're talking about weeks and not months.

Yes, rather weeks than months.

Okay. And then one final question regarding Fermion. We have seen quite good growth this year. In the past, you may have not been able to grow sort of the business because you've been using most of the capacity yourself. So what in a way explains that you're able to service also other customers now when Nubeqa is growing heavily. And what is the outlook for the second half of the year on this front?

Well, let me start from a bit further. Of course, Permian, first of all, has 2 sites, both Oulu and Hanko. And in both sides, in Hanko, we have 4 plants. And in Oulu, we have 9 modules. So we actually manufacture APIs in many different plan, so to speak, if we calculate modules also as plants. And thus darolutamide doesn't have effect to all of them. So the fact that we've been able to deliver external products is -- there might be, I don't know exactly the product mix, but there might be big deliveries from our old factor as well to our CMO customers or from our other plants from Hanko than the plants that are also manufacturing darolutamide.

Okay. And are you expecting to sort of maintain this level also during the second half of the year?

No. I think it will be leveling out during the rest part of the year, rest of the year.

The next question comes from Alex Moore from Bank of America.

I thought I could just ask a follow-up on the new back royalties question. So the royalty growth as strong in the quarter. And as you stated, you reached the highest royalty, so how should we therefore think about sequential quarter-on-quarter growth in royalties for Q3 and Q4? Should we expect this to moderate a bit closer to underlying end market sales growth for Nubeqa? And then looking ahead, do you expect to see continued fast progression or faster progression through royalty sales in 2027 compared to 2026?

I'll take that one. So naturally, if you reach the maximum royalty tier already, it means that then the rest of the quarters of the year will be more driven by the market sales and not by reaching any new tiers. So that is, of course, something which happens. And for next year, of course, we will have to see when we guide that. But of course, we see overall in the big picture of Nubeqa, that there's still a lot of growth left there. So of course, we assume that there will be year-on-year growth for many years to come.

Maybe if I can add on to that. Last year, we reached the ceiling in terms of the royalty rate during Q3. So still in Q3, we will be enjoying partly the fact that now we are enjoying the highest royalty rate for the full quarter compared to last year. And on top of that, of course, the market sales increase.

Okay. Could I ask a follow-up on R&D?

Yes, please.

Cool. So just on R&D cadence you previously indicated that you expect R&D costs to increase for the full year compared to last year. And we saw quite a big meaningful 29% increase in 2Q this year versus 1Q. Should we view the level of quarter-on-quarter growth in R&D spend as a reasonable run rate for the second half? Or do you expect sequential R&D growth to flatten what 3Q and 4Q?

It's a good question, of course, the quarter-on-quarter or the year-on-year growth in Q2 was quite big, as you mentioned, and I would be careful of using that as a full year measure. So I think what we said was at the beginning of the year that this year's R&D costs are going to increase because we have more projects.

It will be more like, I think, continuous change at a big quantum leap this year, and I think you have to look at the more full year kind of comparisons. And a single quarter, you could have a lot of fluctuations and this year's Q1 maybe started out a bit slow. And then this year, Q2, we stepped up in terms of the project in ODM-212. So now we maybe reached a different run rate than we didn't have or but I think it's careful not to assume that you would have a similar type of growth each quarter.

The next question comes from Matti Kaurola from OP Corporate Bank.

My behalf as well. I'd like to address the very strong gross margin that you had during this quarter. So of course, I think there is the sales mix of the increasingly better sales and share of branded prices is driving the whole group-wide gross margin up, but still it's a very strong growth. So are there any kind of changes in your underlying business, if we generics or on us already at that is boosting the profitability?

Yes, I think the main driver you already mentioned, it's really when you have Nubeqa royalty is taking a bigger share and growing so fast, then that, of course, impacts the gross margin, absolutely the most -- the other businesses gross margins are more stable from that perspective.

Okay. And maybe one more question regarding the Nubeqa but maybe a bit of a more longer-term view. So next year, you just mentioned that you might have a different wind from the towers but what about what are you expecting that the market shares and that there is one competing product lesion, which use. So are you expecting like that kind of taking over some market shares or giving some pricing pressure?

Well, yes, indeed, we are aware of this. And as Bayer makes the market forecast, and it's better to ask from Bayer this question. But to our knowledge, based on discussions with Bayer, this has been absorbed in all the forecast, the effect of the standard becoming generic. So it -- we are expecting a strong growth going forward to next year and the years after that.

The next question comes from Anssi Raussi from SEB.

Anssi Raussi from SCB. I have only one question left regarding Nubeqa and [indiscernible] study. So could you maybe remind us about the timing of this study? So is it early 2027 when this should be completed and then how should we think about your R&D expenses. So I guess, these studies requiring some expenses from that side.

Thanks, Anssi. Yes. Now we cannot recall exactly what was the time within '27. So it's '27, but we can come back to that later on, if needed, and that's public info, the clinicaltrials.gov, so we are basing our assumptions on that info. Unfortunately, I cannot remember the month or quarter there exactly. And then there was a question.

Yes. So of course, I mean, there we are participating most likely as well in this Phase II course. So there will be incremental costs in R&D as well. But overall, as part of our R&D budget at that point of time. So I mean nothing major, I mean from that perspective. So it's again, again, an incremental part of the budget.

There are no more questions at this time. So I hand the conference back to the speakers for any closing comments.

Thank you, operator. Now we are turning on to the webcast questions. We have actually one follow-up here from Iiris from DNB Carnegie. Can you provide an update on your U.S. expansion? What have you done so far? And are you planning to accelerate your presence for example, by hiring more people. I just wanted to understand that how should we think about your U.S. expansion and cost development this and next year?

Yes. Thank you for that question. Indeed, we are expanding our team in U.S. in Boston. We have a strong team in clinical regulatory biostatistics, and in R&D, that's how we started out. And now we also have a commercial head in U.S. We are hiring and extending the commercial group with medical affairs and market access. But these are single individuals. So we are not talking about any kind of significant change of the level of cost at this time.

So this is all preparing for ODM-212 phase planning the Phase III studies and preparing the ground with the hospitals and key opinion leaders. So it's still single individuals. The hike -- the cost hike, if that comes then, it comes very close to the launch when you start to recruit the sales reps for the launch. So of course, our cost base in U.S. is very different than it used to be even last year, not to mention in '22 when we didn't have the U.S. operation but it's still nothing material or that way significant. So it's tens of people, not hundreds of people.

All right. Thank you, Liisa. We seem to have no further questions on the webcast. So at this point, thank you all for attending this webcast, so next time, as Liisa said, we will be reporting in late October. So meanwhile, we want to wish you all a great summer.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Good afternoon, and welcome to Orion's Q1 2026 Results Webcast and Conference Call. My name is Tuukka Hirvonen, and I'm the Head of IR here at Orion. In a few moments, we will kick off with the presentation by our CEO, Liisa Hurme, after which you will have the possibility to ask questions either from Liisa or from our CFO, René Lindell.

We will be first taking the questions through the conference call lines. And after that, we will turn on to the webcast chat function. So you may also type in your questions using the chat function of this webcast. And to our Finnish-speaking viewers, this event is held in English. But afterwards, later this afternoon, you will find a Finnish interview of Orion's CEO, Liisa Hurme on Orion's website.

And just before letting Liisa to step in, just a reminder about this disclaimer regarding forward-looking statements.

With these words, I'd like to hand over to Liisa.

Thank you, Tuukka, and good afternoon on my behalf as well, and welcome to listen Orion Q1 2026 results. Some highlights from this Q1. All our businesses performed solid in a solid way and very well, I would say so. And we also have good news regarding our clinical pipeline. We've been granted -- ODM-212 has been granted orphan drug designation in mesothelioma by FDA now in April. And we also started a new Phase Ib/II study called TEADCO which is a basket trial evaluating ODM-212 in combination with standard of care treatments in patients with selected advanced solid tumors. And I will talk more about that later on.

Also, we have strengthened our executive team. We've appointed Berkeley Vincent as an Executive Vice President to lead Innovative Medicines division and as a member of my executive team, as of April 8.

So let's look at the financials. Net sales, a healthy growth of almost 18% compared to the previous year's quarter 1. Also, operating profit growth 47%, which brought us to operating profit margin of 27.5%. And earnings per share increased 47%. Looking at net sales in more detail. Innovative Medicines drove net sales growth with royalties and tablet sales. But as I already mentioned, all the divisions are performing well, of course, in relation to the size of the division. So branded products growth was EUR 5.2 million, generics EUR 1.9 million; and Animal Health, EUR 1.1 million. And even Fermion external sales grew EUR 1.8 million, ending up to EUR 480 million of net sales during Q1.

And the operating profit consists, of course, the royalties here in the Column 3, close to EUR 41 million and change in sales volume of EUR 21 million. We, of course, see some effect on decreasing prices, as we usually see the biggest products suffering of this are, of course, Simdax and Dexdor, but there are the generics as well. This comprises of EUR 9.3 million. That also includes FX and changes in cost of goods. No major milestones received in Q1, and then we also see increase in our fixed cost. And thus, our operating profit was close to EUR 150 million during Q1.

Now to Innovative Medicines. The division growth was close to 54%. And here, we can see the Nubeqa royalties and tablet sales of EUR 145 million -- close to EUR 145 million, some other business of EUR 5.4 million, which is usually sales of services to our partners resulting EUR 150 million of net sales. And as we remember from the previous years, we start with the lower royalty rate from Bayer in the beginning of the year. So the royalties are tiered during the financial year. And we see in Q1 clearly lower income of Nubeqa compared to the last quarter of previous year, but clearly, a higher revenue, Nubeqa revenue compared to the previous year's quarter 1. And royalties were EUR 95 million and tablet sales to Bayer, EUR 50 million.

Branded products, close to 7% growth compared to previous year with EUR 82.2 million. Easyhaler continues to drive growth in this division, especially budesonide-formoterol as the recent changes in treatment guidelines from last year favor the use of combination products over the mono products, and we've been able to really increase our sales according to this new guideline. And the good growth momentum in women's health therapy area continues with the HRT products.

Generics and Consumer Health, 1.4% growth. It's according to market growth, maybe slightly below that, but this is only 1 quarter, and we all know that this is really a very wide portfolio in many different geographies. So this is a very good achievement for the first quarter. And Animal held 3.3% growth. Of course, again, a very wide portfolio, both for companion animals, and livestock and a global portfolio and the growth comes from all of the different geographies in both segments or both units.

When we look at the top 10 products, of course, we see the Nubeqa as we discussed, driving the growth; Easyhaler, 7% growth; Entacapone slightly minus compared to the previous year's quarter 1. But this is mainly, again, timing issue of deliveries to different regions and different partners. Same goes with the Dexdomitor and the Animal Health DDA portfolio #4 here, which grows almost 11%, and that is, again, a result of deliveries leaving during Q1.

And as I mentioned, women's health continues good growth trajectory with almost 15% growth. Burana slightly decreasing, almost 6%. And that's also a kind of more of a timing issue and depends on the season. But then we see 3 of our generics; Trexan, Quetiapine and Fareston which have a very, very healthy growth. This is partly due to the previously mentioned timing of deliveries to our partners but also showing that, for example, Trexan is a golden standard treatment, globally used both in cancer and autoimmune diseases and also solid position in our top 10 products. And Simdax, as I already mentioned, facing a heavy generic competition in Europe.

Now Innovative Medicines during the quarter 1 comprised 36% of our net sales and generics, 32% and branded products, 20%. Animal Health and Fermion together were 11%, 12% of our net sales. Our clinical development pipeline has now -- the list is now a bit longer with the new combination study for ODM-212, but I'll go through the list to remind us what we have now going on.

So the two 1st ones are studies on Nubeqa, the DASL-HiCaP for the neo-adjuvant use of darolutamide in prostate cancer; ARASTEP for the biochemically reoccurring prostate cancer; OMAHA-003 and 004 studies for metastatic castrate-resistant prostate cancer with opevesostat molecule that Orion has developed and then out-licensed to MSD.

Then a bit of an odd product on this list, which is otherwise oncology products or molecules is levosimendan. It's a old classic from Orion's portfolio, the same molecule as we have in Simdax and that's developed for pulmonary hypertension, and there are two Phase III studies ongoing with that by our partner Tenax. Then two Phase II studies, again, with opevesostat for women's cancers like breast, endometrial and ovarian cancer -- MSD -- by MSD. And this is, of course, to test whether this mechanism of action would also work for hormonal cancers in women.

CYPIDES is still ongoing. That was the Phase II study that was used when the Phase III studies with opevesostat started. So the results of that study were used for planning of that -- those Phase IIIs. TEADES is a monotherapy study, a Phase II study for ODM-212 for malignant pleural mesothelioma, and also for epithelioid hemangioendothelioma. These are 2 very rare cancers, solid tumors, and we think that this molecule, based on its mechanism of action, should have a direct antitumor activity to these cancer types. And the newest addition, TEADCO, co referring to combinations.

The indications here, the cancers are mesothelioma, non-small cell lung cancer and pancreatic cancer. Here, we are combining ODM-212 with some known drugs that are used for these specific cancers. And we use the other kind of a mechanism of the inhibition, which would fight for the drug resistance or prevent the drug resistance, that patients usually throw to these currently used treatments.

Sustainability is another topic. Some key figures of Orion sustainability programs. We've been able to decrease our greenhouse gas emissions by 13%, and this is scope 1 and 2, so doesn't include the Scope 3. Our injury rate is 4.9, and there is clearly room to improve there. For this year, we have very ambitious targets for LTIF.

And then 2 things regarding more of a kind of code of conduct or how we operate within own company and with our suppliers, this has to do with the code of conduct. In Orion, 98% of our employees have carried out or done the training for code of conduct. Also, we do this code of conduct training and agreement with our suppliers, and 96% of our suppliers are also adhered to code of conduct, our third-party code of conduct practices.

We have specified our outlook for this year. We gave our outlook in January. And now after Q1 when 1/4 of the year has already passed, we are a bit more wiser, and we are able to increase the lower limit of our range by EUR 50 million, both on net sales and operating profit. So the net sales range was EUR 1.9 billion to EUR 2.1 billion in the original outlook, and now it's from EUR 1.95 billion to EUR 2.1 billion. And same with the operating profit, which was previously EUR 550 million to EUR 750 million, and now it's from EUR 600 million to EUR 750 million.

And here are some upcoming events for this year. And I think at this point, I thank you for your attention, and I think it's time for questions.

Yes. Thank you, Liisa, for the presentation and set up for today. And now let's turn on to the question. We will first start with questions on the conference call line. So at this point, I would like to hand over to the operator.

[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from Alex Moore from Bank of America.

Two for me, both on Nubeqa. So you previously mentioned a quarterly royalty reporting can be impacted by last month estimates and some reconciliation effects. I was just wondering for Q1, is there any particular conservatism or phasing assumptions baked into your sales estimate for March? And then separately, can you give me high level color on whether the reconciliation for sales in December was meaningfully positive or negative in terms of impact on your reported royalty for the quarter?

And then secondly, based on your current assumptions for full year sales run rate and tiered royalty rate, do you see consensus expectations of around 50% growth for Nubeqa sales this year as achievable?

Yes. Maybe I can take that one. So I'll start first with basically December numbers. So we always try if possible to close the year with the actual reports and that we managed to do last year. So there was no reconciliation or overflow from '25 to '26. Naturally, as we said in the last month of the quarter, within the year are based on estimates that we then have and the latest data we have, and then we'll be updating in the second quarter, and then we will discuss that, of course, in Q2, but we are not giving details between -- in between months of how the Nubeqa accruals and actuals go.

And then, yes, we are very happy, of course, that Bayer is also optimistic on the full year of Nubeqa and so are we. And of course, we do our own scenarios and try to make a balanced outlook for the year that includes various scenarios. But other than that, not commenting on Bayer's estimates.

The next question comes from Sami Sarkamies from Danske Bank Markets.

I have 2 questions. Starting from the guidance upgrade, I think you mentioned that you were just wiser after Q1. Can you specify was the upgrade just based on Q1 performance? Or have you also upgraded assumptions related to the rest of the year?

Yes. Maybe I can comment that. So as Liisa said, of course, we have 1 quarter behind us, and that was solid across the businesses. And also, I think Nubeqa performing very nicely in the numbers and in the market. So I think it's a general -- I think if we look at really the lower boundary, we also see that the probability for that old outlook, lower limit starts to be quite low and made sense to raise that lower limit to a bit higher. And when it comes to other aspects, some also effect from the fact that we have a little bit more information on the U.S.A. tariffs for pharma for this year that the impact would be earliest for October quarter. And that -- as that information came through that also reduces a little bit of the downside risk, although being said, it is still something of which is then end of the year, what the impact will be, if any, at that point of time.

Okay. And then my second question would be related to Nubeqa product deliveries. These grew only 30% in Q1. I think they were also a bit small in Q4. So should we just assume that inventories at Bayer have become lower in the last couple of quarters, and these product deliveries will pick up at some point in time during the rest of the year?

Well, I think the tablet deliveries from Orion to Bayer is not a very good -- I would say, not a very good lead indicator how Nubeqa sales would develop or how the inventories that the supply chain is really, really long if you think the global supply chain. So it's -- I would advise not to look at that tablet number or tablet sales. We ship according to buyer's forecast. Of course, here for the shipments there is the same factor than for any other shipments that sometimes they leave on a certain -- last day of a certain month or then first day of the next month. So there might also be a big change or big differences depending on when the shipments leave Orion. So that's not a very good and reliable indicator for prognosing inventories or future sales.

Perhaps I can continue here a little bit that we do expect for the full year that we will have higher tablet deliveries than what we had in Q1. So it wasn't yet I think, representative of the average level for the year.

No, no. This is exactly what I mean, and -- yes.

Okay. And then, actually, I have one more question regarding the new combination study for ODM-212. Can you tell a bit more about the study, how many patients were recruited? When are you expecting readouts? And then it would be interesting to hear what is currently the market for the drugs that you will be combining ODM-212 with?

Well, I think I'll start with the studies. These are not huge studies. I don't have the exact number of patients unless my colleagues here have that. But let's remember that both of these indication, even though they are big ones. So we are now carrying out Phase Ib/2. So we are even first trying different dosing with some of the combined drugs. So -- and for the results and readouts, I would be on a safe side to say that we can expect those during '28. And the markets for the drugs that we are combining, I'm not going to share here the market details of those drugs, but those are listed -- the ones that we combine with, are listed in the press release currently.

Okay. So assuming additional studies for these patients. .

Yes. .

Are these blockbuster products?

Oh, yes. Indeed, some of them are.

They are. But then again, 1 needs to remember that their indication may be wider than the one we are targeting with this combination. So we have listed the active ingredients in the press release we announced earlier this morning. So with that, you can definitely find out the brand names for these products. But again, please bear in mind that their indication may be wider than the one we are targeting with these trials.

Okay. Thank you. I don't have any further questions .

The next question comes from [ Matty Carola ] from OP Corporate Bank.

Firstly, about royalty rate. So what should we think about during this Q1? Is it comparable what we saw last year, first quarter? Or is it higher as now the sales, of course, grew from Bayer to Q1 last year?

Apologies, Matty, the line was a bit bad right now. There's somewhat echo. Could you please repeat your question?

All right. Hopefully, it's better now. Yes, I was asking about the royalty rate during the Q1. So is it at the same level than last year? Or is it higher now as the Nubeqa sale has grew from last year?

I don't think we comment on the royalty rates in that perspective as to where the tier breakpoints or so you'll have to probably wait for that calculation to be done a bit later during the year.

Growing faster compared to previous year, we will be reaching the higher tiers earlier than last year. So in that sense, in Q1, also probably the average is somewhat higher than last year.

All right. Maybe then another question regarding the sales and marketing costs as they've been increasing. So could you roughly say how much there is like the actual costs? And how much are the end royalties? These are kind of causing the cost growth.

Yes, of course, and he royalties are paying a role in their part, but also we have added sales force also to support, especially branded products in some European countries. So you will see both effects there visible that, of course, with Nubeqa growing quite a lot from last year's Q1, then, of course, those would be also visible in the sales and marketing.

Okay. And one more question regarding the R&D pipeline. So as you did have said that there is this one kind of the old study, which is not covering oncology. So I think it was last year exactly when you were putting this Tenax study in your pipeline. And could you remind us what was the reason to add that study back then to your pipeline? Why it was not there prior to year ago? You want to [indiscernible]?

Yes. That's a very good question, and thank you for asking so that we can remind -- I think that was the time when Tenax started the Phase III program for pulmonary hypertension. They had been working with levosimendan for a while, doing some confirmatory studies, but that was exactly the time when they were able to start the first study and then eventually later on last year, they started the next study or the second study for pulmonary hypertension. So there is no other reason for that.

[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from Anssi Raussi from SEB.

Ssian Ssirau from SEB. One question from me regarding Nubeqa. So when we think about this early-stage indication for Nubeqa, what would be a reasonable time line to expect that you would expense for you because I have understood that Bayer is fully responsible for the development for now.

Indeed. This relates to the DASL-HiCaP study and the readout for this study, if I remember correctly, it's '28.

Estimated in '28.

Estimated in '28. I think that the latest point for us to jump in and use our opt-in would be when we see the results of the study.

The next question comes from Iiris Theman from DNB. Carnegie.

I have just 1 question. So what pipeline is do you expect in the next 12 to 18 months?

Well, I'll start with our ambition to start Phase I study, at least one Phase I study with our biologics during this year, by the end of '26. And then if you ask for the next 12 months, of course, then we move to enter in clinical stage. So I think those are the one -- the major initiations of new projects. And then regarding the results, no major results that we would be expecting this year.

With the exception of the LEVEL trial -- Phase III trial by Tenax in Q3 this year.

Yes. Thank you, Tuukka. But then in '27, the...

ARASTEP.

ARASTEP will -- there will be a readout for ARASTEP in '27. Then again,-- what else did we have in '27?

Current estimate for the women's trials with opevesostat. Current estimate is in the end of '27. We'll see how that pans out. And also for our first ODM-212 Phase II, so with the mono trial, current estimate is also in the end of '27, but it may move either direction, depending on recruitment rates and so forth.

Okay. And anything about opevesostat, ODM-208 for prostate cancer?

Readout for both of the studies is '28.

Yes. The estimated final readout is in summer '28 for both of these trials.

There are no more questions at this time. So I hand the conference back to the speakers for any closing comments.

Thank you, operator. Then we'll turn to the webcast questions. So again, you still have the opportunity to type in your questions by using the webcast chat, if you wish.

We have here 1 question coming from Shan Hama from Jefferies. So Shan is interested to hear that could we please provide an update on opevesostat timing. And if we could still see interim data this year following Merck's comments in '25 ASCO, so last year.

Well, I think I can only repeat what we said a minute ago that the readout for both -- the readouts for both of the studies are estimated to happen in '28. And regarding any interim results or interim analysis, I don't have information on that. So that should be asked from MSD.

Exactly. Thank you, Liisa. So we have no further questions either from the webcast, and I think that we don't either have any follow-ups on the conference call line. So I think it's time to wrap up and some closing words, if we wish, Liisa.

Yes. I thank you for your attention and very good questions. And of course, I hope that you will be attending our upcoming events this year and have a nice rest of the day. Thank you.

Good afternoon, and welcome to Orion's Full Year 2025 Results Webcast and Conference Call. My name Tuukka Hirvonen, I am the Head of IR here at Orion. In a few moments, our CEO, Liisa Hurme, will present the results for the full year and Q4 last year, after which you will have the possibility to ask questions from Liisa and also from our CFO, Rene Lindell.

We will be first taking questions through the conference call lines. And after that, we will turn to the webcast. So through the webcast, you have the possibility to type in your questions through the chat function of the webcast. Just before I let Liisa take over, I'd like to draw your attention to this usual disclaimer regarding future forward-looking statements.

And with this short note, it's my pleasure to invite Liisa to the podium. Liisa, please.

Thank you, Tuukka, and welcome on my behalf as well. I'll start with the Q4 and with some highlights during the last 3 months of last year. It's my pleasure to say that all our business divisions had a strong quarter and performed extremely well. Also, we received EUR 180 million sales milestone from Bayer related to Nubeqa. And we were able to proceed with our clinical pipeline by initiating Phase II program with ODM-212, a molecule in our oncology pipeline. And also our partner Tenax, in the United States, initiated Phase III trial called Level 2 with levosimendan for pulmonary hypertension.

And Q4 highlights, the base business during Q4 compared to the previous year grew 18.5% and 60% when we include the previously mentioned milestone. And operating profit growth was 59% and including the milestone, 254%, bringing us to 47% operating profit margin in Q4. Operating cash flow per share was slightly lower than previous year, and that's mainly due to the timing of royalty payments from Bayer.

The net sales bridge is almost masked by Nubeqa and Innovative Medicines as it includes the EUR 180 million milestone. But it doesn't shadow the extremely good performance of other divisions, Branded, Generics and Animal Health. Of course, the divisions are smaller, so the growth in euros is also smaller. And this all resulted us to -- brought us to EUR 695 million during Q4.

In the operating profit, we, of course, see the EUR 180 million, but a very good development on our royalties, close to EUR 50 million and also sales volumes brought us EUR 28 million. Price development, COGS and product mix put us slightly down by EUR 12 million and the effect of exchange rate on gross margin was EUR 4.1 million. And other operating costs and fixed costs were also well handled. So nothing specific there. So our Q4 Operating profit was EUR 328 million.

And now I move to 2025. This was an all-time high year for Orion Pharma, both with net sales and operating profit. And I want to take the opportunity here today to thank all my colleagues all around the world in Orion Pharma for this achievement. In all business divisions, in R&D, in operations, you couldn't achieve anything like this without a very, very good collaboration in the company. So in addition to euros, we also had lots of positive development in R&D; ARANOTE approvals, both in Europe and U.S.; several new license and collaboration agreements; license agreements for early-stage technology platforms in our innovative medicines and oncology, but also acquiring and in-licensing product rights for both branded products and generics.

Also MSD, our other significant partner, expanded the opevesostat development to women's cancers, which is wonderful news, both for women suffering of these cancers and taking all the possible opportunities of this molecule and mechanism of action. And Board of Directors of Orion Pharma is proposing a dividend of EUR 1.80 per share. And this is proposed to be paid in two installments.

For the full year numbers, 21% growth in our base business, 22.5%, including milestone. Operating profit, EUR 58 million, if I round it to 59% growth in base business and 52%, including the milestones. And for the full year operating profit margin, this brings us to 33.4% compared to the previous year's 27%. And of course, this is mainly due to the -- or partly due to the milestone that we received. And operating cash flow was slightly better than in '24, driven by good sales performance -- mainly by sales performance as the milestone will be visible in the cash flow in this year.

And now I move to the divisions. Innovative Medicines, here, the net sales is really Nubeqa, either the royalties or royalties and the product sales. And the dark part here describes the sales and royalties, where the growth was close to 38%. Of course, there, the milestone also included brings us to 152% growth. And then between the full years, the growth was 60% for the base business and 55% with the milestone.

And then there is the picture that we always want to have here to remind you of the very back-end loaded character of this business due to the tiered royalties from Bayer. And we can see it extremely well here in the Q4 '25, where the royalties jump up significantly from the previous quarter. The product deliveries and product sales between the Q3 and Q4 last year remained at the similar level.

Branded Products continued in Q4, the 2-digit number growth with 11% and the full year growth was close to 10%. For the respiratory portfolio, the growth comes from the budesonide-formoterol combination product. For the CNS, it comes from Stalevo or the entacapone product family for Parkinson's disease and especially retaining the rights in Japan back to Orion Pharma, but also from some new products that we've been launching in Europe. And then a significant growth of our women's health portfolio.

Generics and Consumer Health really did it last year. 5.7% growth during the Q4 is above all averages in this business. and 4.6% for the full year as well. And this is a result of a lot of activities. We've done more than ever of launches in our current territories. We've had some bigger launches also this year for the products that have -- where the patents have ended, and this comes also from all of our regions.

Animal Health quarter 4 was more, how would I say, calm compared to the previous quarters with only 1% growth. And this is mainly when you see this type of changes on a quarterly basis in Animal Health, it's usually the delivery timing of products to our partners. And then again, it didn't have a big effect on the yearly full year sales where the growth is close to 10%. And in a similar way to generics, the growth really comes from a broad -- here, even a broad geographic region globally, but also from a broad portfolio, both on the livestock and companion animal business.

This is a nice list of our 10 biggest products. Almost all the products are growing, some even with a very healthy 2-digit numbers. Then some are more or less at par like Animal Health, Dexdomitor and Burana. Maybe it's good to note here that the Divina series, the women's health portfolio, has now climbed to be the #4. So it has actually now climbed up and passed the Animal Health sedative portfolio.

And this is only a very natural order of products here to have the innovative products, Nubeqa as the first fastest-growing product and then all the 3 main products from branded side as the next ones. And then we have biggest generic products represented here. Simdax, unfortunately, of course, declining. Fareston's decline, again, is a matter of delivery timing.

I think the big message in this slide is that, to my recollection, this is the first year when Innovative Medicines is our biggest division. So this is clearly a kind of a landmark event for Orion. Generics still hold almost 30% or generate 30% of our net sales and Branded Products, 17%. And the 2 other divisions, Animal Health and Fermion are significantly smaller ones.

No significant news on our key clinical development pipeline. I already mentioned that we've started Phase II for the ODM-212 in 2 different indications, mesothelioma and EHE, both are rare oncology indications. We were able to start this study already in the end of the last year. And are aiming to start a study with the combination of this molecule to some current oncology treatments during the first part of this year. And also, you can see here now 2 studies for levosimendan also the level 2.

And this is a very nice slide on sustainability this time about diversity. Orion has been ranked as #3 in the Nordic Business Diversity Index, which means that if you look at the numbers here on this slide, how men and women are -- what is the share of men and women on different level of the organization. You can look at the Board of Directors where almost 40% of members are women in executive team, almost 45% of the members are women. And if you look at the whole personnel in Orion Pharma, there almost 56% of the personnel are women. And there are a lot of other information here, of which we are very, very proud. One that I can mention is the accomplishment of the Code of Conduct agreements with our suppliers, which is 98%.

We provided our outlook for 2026 for this year already on January 14, and it holds. So we have stated that our net sales range for this year is from EUR 1.9 billion to EUR 2.1 billion, and our operating profit range is from EUR 550 million to EUR 750 million. And here are our upcoming events, and our Annual General Meeting will be held on 24th of March.

I thank you for your attention at this point, and we are ready for your questions.

Thank you, Liisa.

[Operator Instructions]

But first, let's turn on to the conference call lines, and I'd like to hand over to the operator at this point.

[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from Shan Hama from Jefferies.

Just two from me, please. We can take them 1 at a time. So firstly, could you just outline how you expect OpEx to develop over the course of this year as when compared to 2025, what sort of levels of SG&A and R&D are we looking at as a sort of percentage of the top line? That's my first question.

I'll give this question to Rene.

Of course, we are not giving a detailed guidance on within the guidance and OpEx levels, but we have been stating that we are initiating more activities in the clinical pipeline. We have ODM-212 that entered Phase II and are planning to expand. So R&D OpEx, you can imagine that we are planning to increase during the year. And then when it comes to sales and marketing, we have also been investing more in those efforts across our countries, especially in the Branded Products division. So also there, there is some growth during '26.

Got it. And then just for my second question, please. Are you able to provide us with some further guidance as to your agreement with Bayer and what that looks like following Nubeqa's patent expiries? I think you previously stated low level percentage royalties after the patent expiries. But what is the low level? And will that eventually go to 0 after 2035?

I think exactly as you pointed out, it's a low-level single numbers of royalty that we can receive from Bayer after the product has become generic. And maybe did you have something else in your mind regarding that, we can confirm that here.

Yes. And then will it go to 0 after 2035? I think that's when the last patent expires in Europe, if I'm not mistaken.

To my recollection, in a very general way as these agreements are done, it's a region-by-region agreement. Whenever patents expire, generic competition starts in a certain region, so then the new royalty rate kicks in.

The next question comes from Sami Sarkamies from Danske Bank Markets.

I have a couple of questions. We'll also be taking this one by one. Starting from the outcome for last year, it was a great year, but you didn't actually surprise against your own expectations around mid-'25, even though Nubeqa sales actually developed very strongly during the second half of the year. So why did we land at the guidance midpoint and not above it? My point is that Nubeqa probably reached some sort of blue sky scenario during last year, but in which areas that wasn't the case. So was it related to other products not selling that well or maybe costs becoming larger than anticipated?

So if you look at the net sales, we landed pretty close to our upper range of our outlook. So that clearly was on the high side, not in the midpoint. Then on the operating profit, we were quite there, close to the midpoint. However, there as well, we had a little bit more of OpEx, but again, that we kind of expected. As I said, we had R&D investments last year that increased significantly year-on-year. And especially even if you consider comparable without the write-downs in '24, you can see that actually the ongoing activities increased even more. So in a way, you could say we really executed on the plan, both in the R&D side and also on the sales and marketing side, we went exactly as planned. So I think for us, we were quite at the mark.

Okay. And then going back to the cost outlook that was also discussed. So is it so that the R&D cost increase will be quite a bit more material this year than sales and marketing cost increase?

Not necessarily. So I think in both sides, we are investing. So we'll have to see, of course, how the year goes, sales and marketing. I think it's pretty clear what we have in the budget that it will increase, R&D as well increasing. But again, as you know, it's less predictable. So that's why also there is a variety in the outlook range that includes a big part, also plays a role of the R&D expense.

And maybe to continue from that, we are really, as you said -- as Rene already said, executing our plan. We were executing our plan for '25, and we are executing our strategy, which is to invest more in R&D. And you can already see it in '25 if you compare '25 numbers to the '24, and that is expected to continue.

Okay. And can you still open up a bit the factors that are driving sales and marketing costs increase this year? And maybe also you're planning to have a presence in the U.S. market someday. When do you think those more material sales and marketing investments will happen?

I think the largest factors would be in Branded Products and obviously, Easyhaler as being the biggest product. That's where we have the most activities. So logically, driving more sales there requires also activities in that regard. The U.S.A. establishing that platform, of course, that also plays a role, but still quite small in the big picture of things. But of course, we are step-by-step also taking activities there, but it's a very small scale, but it's all part of the total.

And maybe to add -- and then of course, also the Endo royalties, which we are paying. As Nubeqa grows, of course, we are paying more and more royalties to Endo, and that is shown in the sales and marketing costs.

Thank you for Tuukka to remind about that. So that really grows as the Nubeqa sales grow.

So that's why it is a variable, basically, expense with Nubeqa's growth.

And then my final question would be on capital investments. You had quite an increase last year. You're guiding for a similar level this year. Where are you investing at the moment?

If I single out the largest investments, those would be in Nubeqa production, especially in the API production. And then secondly, last year, we also had in Easyhaler. But of course, we are continuing of course across all our divisions. So as we are growing, we need more capacity for the products that we are producing on our own. So in a way, it grows also in line with the business. But naturally, one of the big things is really darolutamide.

The next question comes from Iiris Theman from DNB Carnegie.

Thanks for your presentation. I have three questions, please. So firstly, R&D costs were higher than I expected in Q4. Did those include any one-offs, for instance, related to ODM-105? This is my first question.

Well, mainly the R&D costs, I don't recall that. Maybe, Rene, you know the details, but I don't recall if they had any one-offs for 105. But of course, the R&D cost increase is really according to strategy, according to our plans. And as we have several biologics, already chosen candidates that we will hopefully bring to clinical development, at least one this year and the next in '27. The balance or the -- how the R&D costs are actually sequenced when you develop biologics? There are a lot more costs already before the clinical development when you need to have your final product, your final pharmaceutical product and commercial batches validated before you enter your clinical studies.

So I do fully understand it might be difficult to understand where do we spend the money when you still see that there are not that many projects in the clinical phase. So those are actually quite expensive in the light of earlier pipeline molecules that we've had. And of course, we've been bringing ODM-212 into clinical phase and started the Phase II study last year. And that, of course, also includes kind of one-offs and payments for CROs. So nothing to do with 105 unless Rene says otherwise.

Yes. Maybe just on the dynamics of the R&D spend. Typically, end of the year, there is a bit more bills for external CROs. They tend to be back-end loaded over the years. ODM-105, yes, there were a few, I would say, single-digit millions in terms of payments that we booked basically for things that are still being done to ramp down. And yes, as you said, then also starting up the new clinical trials, there's also upfront payments that came there. But all of these -- this is going to be probably the typical one that you have some fluctuations, but the big message is in a way that from -- if you look at the full year to full year, then we expect a steady growth of R&D.

Okay. And still related to R&D costs. So is it fair to assume that your costs this year will be in your historical range of about 10% to 12% of sales?

I would not promise that the history is the best predictor of the future. It will really depend on how the projects move forward. So we've been many years in the 11%. But as I said, the target is to move forward further in the clinics, and that might mean also that we exceed the clinical -- or the historical ranges, but we'll have to see how the year goes.

Okay. And then secondly, what was the reason behind the flat Nubeqa product sales quarter-over-quarter in Q4?

Well, there is a lot of fluctuation. Generally, of course, the deliveries have been growing as the sales been growing, but as we've stated many times, so there are differences between quarters. It's a bit of the same thing as with other products to our partners, but it's really might be a timing of delivery between one day to another and then it ends up to a different quarter or even to a different year.

Okay. And then my final question is related to R&D pipeline. So what is your expected pipeline news in the next 6 to 12 months?

Well, I think the next one will be the start of the ODM-212 in combination with some current oncology drugs that are used. As I said, we hope to start those studies before the summer, during the first half of this year. And from there on, during this year, we aim to bring one biologic product in clinical stage. And then going forward to '27, there should be results. And now I'm looking at Tuukka already from one of the Nubeqa studies. So are they both readouts in '28?

The ARASTEP study for the BCR is due to readout in '27, then the DASL-HiCaP is due to readout in '28. And still during this year, so in the second half of '26, our partner, Tenax, is expecting to read out the first level Phase III trial in the second half of this year.

Exactly. So this year's events is really starting the combination study with 212 level study results and also starting the biologics clinical development.

And do you expect anything related opevesostat in the next 12 months?

I think that's something that you would need to ask from MSD.

The next question comes from Alex Moore from Bank of America.

It's Alex Moore, on for Charlie Haywood, Bank of America. Two for me on Nubeqa. On the greater than EUR 1 billion guidance on net sales, can you confirm your assumptions around expansion into early line settings on the data due in '27, '28?

And then secondly, just a clarifying question on the royalty post LOE. You mentioned that the royalty rate drops to a very low rate after generic competition has started on a country-by-country basis. Can you give a bit more color on timing, i.e., does this mean the royalty rate drops on the launch of the first generic competitor in a particular market? Or is there more nuance there?

Well, I think may I repeat your first question. So did you ask whether the early-stage indications with Nubeqa are included in the EUR 1 billion?

Correct.

That was your question. Yes, they are. In a similar way as anything that Bayer is saying about Nubeqa, they include all the indications or all the studies that are ongoing that they should be successful to reach what they are planning. And then your next question was regarding the royalty rate after the loss of exclusivity and how that would go. Usually, the agreements are designed so that the royalty rate drops either when the first generic enters the market or the patent is expired region by region.

All right. Thank you. We have now, for the time being, exhausted all the questions from the conference call line. Then we can turn into the webcast questions. We have a few of them here. Let's start with a few one from Matti Kaurola from OP Markets. So the first one from Matti is, what kind of reasons impacted on increased R&D and especially the sales and marketing costs in Q4?

I think we already discussed the R&D cost. So I think I already answered that. We will not repeat it. So sales and marketing, again, maybe repeating what also Tuukka mentioned that Endo royalties was a big part of that. And of course, the EUR 180 million milestone was one big event in Q4, which also include Endo royalties. But then the other piece just added activities that we have. We have added more sales persons across our markets where we are seeing good momentum and growth, for example, for Easyhaler.

Then we'll continue with the cost side, hot topic today. This is again from Matti. What should we think about especially sales and marketing costs in '26? Are they going to have similar seasonality as in '25? Or is Q4 level as the new normal, so to say?

I think there is a fluctuation between the quarters due to various factors. So I think it also kind of might be a bit risky to take 1 quarter and multiply by 4, but rather look at the total year levels as we typically do, you get a more continuous picture of how that would develop. Yes, there is always some seasonality always there, typically also Q4, even in that space can have some extra costs that are backloaded, like in R&D. So I would also look at a bit more bigger picture of how the costs develop.

Thanks, Rene. Then the final one from Matti is related to Fermion. Typically, Fermion sales has been decreasing due to increased Nubeqa production. So why did the external sales of Fermion increased during Q4?

Well, this is a good and nice question because this -- let's remember that these sales, as was pointed out, are the external sales for other pharma companies. And we were clearly able to deliver before the year-end more than we've been able to do earlier. So I think this is a result of good deliveries before the year-end.

Thanks, Liisa. Then move on. This question comes from Viktor Sundberg from Nordea Markets. So just wondered if you could provide any details on what you assume in the high end and in the low end of your guidance ranges to get a better feel for the risks and uncertainties going into '26?

Yes. Of course, I can't give you details within the range. But I think if we talk about broadly about the range, the biggest factors, of course, for this year is Nubeqa. That is growing at the rate as we're seeing. We expect it to do very strongly this year. It grows as its share of the total business naturally. That means also the range where Nubeqa lands and the impact on Orion is increasing.

We mentioned already R&D OpEx, it is also increasing, but there is uncertainty over there as well that how projects move forward, how fast and how the spend is, plus then other factors, the U.S. dollar to euro FX starts to impact more because a lot of the Nubeqa sales, of course, is in U.S.A. So that is in there as well. Plus the other divisions bring their kind of normal variations as well. So it's kind of sum of all of these. And in the end, as we've been typically stated, when we look at the midpoint, that's kind of a base case where things move according to our plans.

Thank you, Rene. Now we have exhausted also the questions from the webcast, and I can hear that there are no follow-ups on the conference call line. So at this point, I'll hand over to Liisa for any closing remarks.

Thank you for your attention. And again, thank you for everybody for this excellent year 2025. We are heading towards another good year of 2026. Thank you.

Okay. [Foreign Language] Good afternoon, and welcome to Orion's earnings conference call and webcast for the financial period of January-September 2025. My name is Tuukka Hirvonen. I'm the Head of Investor Relations here at Orion.

In a few moments, we will start with the presentation by our CEO and President, Mrs. Liisa Hurme, after which then we will have a Q&A session where you can post questions both to Liisa and also to our CFO, Rene Lindell.

[Operator Instructions] And just before I let Liisa to take the stage, I'd like to draw your attention to this disclaimer regarding forward-looking statements. But with that, it's my pleasure to hand over to Liisa. Liisa?

Thank you, Tuukka, and welcome to Orion Q3 webcast on my behalf as well. Here are some highlights from quarter 3 2025. Nubeqa received approval from European Commission for use of darolutamide and ADT, androgen deprivation therapy in patients with metastatic hormone-sensitive prostate cancer. Nubeqa also reached all-time high royalties and product deliveries to Bayer during Q3.

Generics and Consumer Health business had a strong quarter, supported by good availability of products in our major markets and very successful new launches. Unfortunately, ODM-105, tasipimidine Phase II trial for insomnia didn't reach its efficacy target, and we decided to discontinue the development of that program. And Q3 financials are here. And before I go deeper into the financials, it is good to remember that the comparative period Q3 2024 was an exceptional quarter.

We received EUR 130 million worth of milestones last year's Q3. There was a EUR 70 million sales milestone from Bayer related to Nubeqa and EUR 60 million milestone related to the MSD agreement on opevesostat. So these are quite difficult to compare to each other. And now as I go along, I will talk about the base business. So the business without the milestones.

The base business growth was 24% from quarter 3 '24 to this year's quarter 3, totaling to EUR 423 million. The operating profit growth was even stronger, 68%, up to EUR 121 million. And our cash flow grew 15% and was being very solid. Of course, last year's -- during last year's Q3, the milestones were booked, but yet not paid. So they were not yet cash in our bank. And when we look closer, the net sales bridge, we can see the kind of a net effect of the difference between the quarters here regarding the milestones in Innovative Medicines column, which is EUR 59 million, but underlying net sales increased by EUR 71 million.

So I think the growth, as I earlier said, of Nubeqa product sales and royalties was very strong, but it didn't fully compensate the previous year's milestones. We can also see here that all other divisions positively developed positively, strongest being Generics and Consumer Health, but also Branded Products and Animal Health showed positive development. And Fermion was more or less on par.

And here on the operating profit bridge, we can see the full -- kind of a full effect of the last year's milestones, EUR 130 million, but also the positives on the change in sales volume and change in prices and cost of goods and product mix of almost EUR 20 million. And then the royalties of EUR 50 million. We can also see that our fixed cost increased as well, but this is all planned. It's mainly R&D and sales and marketing costs here. Now let's take a view for the first 9 months from January to September. Again, a very nice 22% growth during the first 9 months and 7.8% growth even though we would compare to the previous year's quarter 3, including the milestones. And the first 3 months ended up with EUR 1.2 billion of net sales.

Regarding operating profit, EUR 57 million -- 57% growth and slight decrease if we compare to the numbers, including milestones in previous year. And again, a very positive development on cash flow during the first 9 months. Now to Innovative Medicines.

This is a bit different picture than you've used to see. There is the shaded area, which tries to tell you the comparison between the quarters, including everything else, but the milestones from the previous year. And 71% of growth is very healthy for Innovative Medicines and also almost 75% growth during the first 9 months. And on the right side here, you can see this all-time high royalties plus product deliveries ending up to EUR 166 million.

And I always remind looking at this picture, the very, how would I say, year is very late ended loaded -- back-ended loaded -- back-end loaded for Nubeqa, as you can see here, when you look at the '24 from the first quarter to the last quarter, but here as well. But I would like to remind that in comparison to '24, we already reached the higher royalty rate in the previous quarter with Nubeqa. So we are not going to see a similar shift and change in the royalty rate as we saw last year between the Q3 and Q4.

Branded Products growth during Q3 was somewhat slow. It was 3%. And this slowliness in the growth is mainly due to timing of deliveries to our Stalevo partners. And that will be fixed during the rest of the year. So it's kind of a temporary change here. And the growth for the first 9 months is a healthy 9%. And in Easyhaler portfolio, budesonide-formoterol combination product was the clear driver for the growth. And then on the CNS portfolio, Stalevo Japan contributed to growth in Branded Products.

And as I say, Generics and Consumer Health quarter 3 was very, very strong. 5.4% growth is extremely good for any generic business, but especially here when we remember that Simdax and Dexdor are included in this business, and they are constantly sliding down facing the generic competition. So we are able to compensate that decrease, but -- and at the same time, increase and grow our sales. And the reason for good quarter is really the good availability of the products in our Nordic countries. The service level is the thing in the Generic business. You need to have the products at the time of the tender where they should be, and you would need to be able to deliver also for all the different countries in the specific timings of tenders or pricing processes.

And also, we had a good launch, for example, for Apixaban in Finland. Animal Health continued the good growth trend, although here, we see a bit of a similar slowdown as with Branded Products, and that partly has to do with deliveries as well. But when we look at the first 9 months, it's a very strong 2-digit number growth. And our top 10 product list is as it has been. Nubeqa, there as a flagship with 83% or 84% growth. Easyhaler product portfolio growth was close to 8% and entacapone products grew close to 5%, mainly due to the Japan sales.

And our HRT product, Divina, performed very well here on the row 5, growing almost 23%, continuing the strong growth from earlier this year and some oldies like Trexan even 10% -- close to 10% growth and Quetiapine products, 10% growth. And currently, our business divisions are very healthy. The balance between business divisions is very healthy, approximately 30% for Innovative Medicines and Generics and close to 20% for Branded Products.

Now Orion's key clinical development pipeline has clearly become oncology focused as we decided to discontinue the ODM-105 project for treatment of insomnia. We have also removed ARANOTE from this list as it's approved both in U.S. and EU. So we now have the DASL-HiCaP study on this list. and then the 2 OMAHA studies with opevesostat that MSD is responsible for. It's good to mention here for these 2 opevesostat studies that their design or primary endpoints have changed since we last presented this so that for the OMAHA3, which is for the later line patients, the primary endpoint is now overall survival. So the progression-free survival has been demoted and overall survival is the primary endpoint.

Also, there are changes for the frontline patients study 004, so that the progression-free survival is now a primary endpoint for this study. And these are changes that our partner, MSD, has done, and it looks in all possible ways very logical. Then we have Tenax levosimendan study for pulmonary hypertension proceeding in Phase III. They are planning to start also another Phase III study by the end of this year, another global study for this indication.

And then we have another study for opevesostat for metastatic castrate-resistant prostate cancer and 3 studies ongoing, Phase II studies ongoing for several or 3 different hormonal cancers, women's hormonal cancers, breast, endometrial and ovarian cancer. And still, we continue the CYPIDES, which was the Phase II study that formed the basis for those 2 opevesostat 3 and 4 studies for prostate cancer. And our TEAD inhibitor, ODM-212 for solid tumors is proceeding well in Phase I, and we are preparing to start the Phase II program on the first half of next year.

Then a few words on the sustainability this time about decarbonization targets. We have set an ambitious target to reduce absolute Scope 1 and 2 greenhouse gas emissions by 70% by the year 2030, and also have 78% of our suppliers, meaning Scope 3 emissions covered by our targets. Then how do we do this? I think for the Scope 1 and 2, we have very concrete actions ongoing. The steam production is one of the most energy-consuming phase in the chemical industry, especially in the API industry. And we are changing the energy source for steam production in all of our facilities -- manufacturing facilities.

In Turku, we are electrifying the steam production. In Oulu, we are changing to biofuels from the fossil fuels. And also, we will start an electrifying project in Espoo. So very, very concrete examples here, and we have even done a lot of concrete actions and projects before this, for example, in our Hanko plant. And in the supplier management, we are targeting to our highest emitting suppliers who are not yet aligned with SBT. And here, we try to offer support and practices and technical expertise with our suppliers. And we have specified our outlook today.

Our operating outlook for operating profit, we have narrowed from EUR 410 million to EUR 490 million. So nothing drastic. We've been able to narrow it as the year has -- 10 months have already passed. There are 2 months left, and we have a much clearer view on how the year will pan out. And for the net sales, our outlook is from EUR 1.640 billion to EUR 1.720 billion. And here, you can see the upcoming events for next year. And I thank you on my behalf, and welcome Rene here with me to answer your questions.

Thank you, Liisa, for the presentation. As we said in the beginning, we will first take questions from the conference call lines, and then we will turn to the questions you can type in through the chat function in the webcast. But at this point, I would like to hand over to the operator with the conference call.

[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from Sami Sarkamies from Danske Bank Markets.

I have 4 questions. We'll take this one by one. Firstly, starting from the guidance. Can you elaborate on what is driving the small revisions to the lower and upper ends of the guidance ranges? Is this about third quarter actuals? Or have you also updated your forecast for the fourth quarter?

Well, of course, the first thing is, as I mentioned, that we know now how the first, say, 10 months have passed, and there are only 2 months left. But there are, of course, uncertainties for the latter part of the year. Nubeqa is a big moving factor in this, also R&D costs. And the tariffs are not that big of a matter here. We do think that they wouldn't have any effect to this year '25. But there are still uncertainties for the rest of the year. So still, we have this range, but there are less uncertainties, and that's why we were able to narrow the range.

Okay. Then moving on to growth momentum at Branded Products and Animal Health. Third quarter growth rates are clearly weaker than we saw in the second quarter. How would you explain that? And what is your expectation regarding Q4?

Well, yes, you are very correct that the Branded Products and Animal Health showed a slower growth than previously this year. And it's mainly due to some delays in our deliveries to partners. We have both Animal Health. Animal Health is actually working closely with. We have some very big partners that we are working with. So there might be a 1-day or 2-day delay for the deliveries, and it has an effect clearly even on the quarter if there are big deliveries going on. Same goes with Branded Products.

We deliver still to our Stalevo partners across the world. And it's the same thing. I think we've experienced this earlier years as well that sometimes it just happens that we are not able to ship during the quarter that we had planned. But this should be -- we should be able to sort this out by the end of the year during the Q4.

Okay. Then moving on. The third question is on ODM-208. You mentioned that Merck has been changing primary endpoints for the OMAHA studies. When was this change made?

This change became public, I think, a month ago, 3 weeks ago, maybe.

It was a few weeks ago. In early October, they changed the protocols. It was visible in the ClinicalTrials.gov. So nothing material because we didn't come out with at that point. But of course, something that is very interesting for all of you. So we wanted to highlight it here.

Okay. And then finally, regarding the R&D pipeline, thinking of next year, can you give a bit more color on when you're expecting Phase I readout for ODM-212? And when would you expect to initiate the first Phase II study for that molecule? And then secondly, at CMD, you talked about 3 biological preclinical programs moving into Phase I during next year. Just wanted to check if these projects are still live as you are currently guiding for at least one new program during next year.

Yes. I'll start with ODM-212. The Phase I is almost completed. We are looking at the results, and we are basing our Phase II planning on those results. And of course, we will report the results in some forthcoming scientific meeting. Those are usually on embargo until we release them for the scientific audience. And regarding the Phase II program, it's currently under plans. We have filed IND for that and hope to be starting by hopefully mid-'26. And what was -- then there was one more question.

About the biologics status.

Biologics. Indeed, yes, we told that we have 3 biologics close to advancing to clinical pipeline. And we think that we will be able to proceed with at least one of them to the Phase I next year.

[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from Shan Hama from Jefferies.

Three from me. Also happy to take them one by one. So firstly, could you perhaps give us some, I guess, guide as to the impact on your OpEx from the ODM-105 failure? I mean I know you weren't planning to take it to late-stage development yourselves. So I assume it's not significant, but perhaps any guidance on the provisions set aside there would be helpful.

Yes, maybe I can take that one. So of course, ODM-105, it was -- we got the results and in such a way, you could say the project was completed. So for this year's perspective, not a big impact in terms of how we expect this year's R&D expenses to be going as it was in our plans and it was completed.

Then of course, for next year, you can obviously think that there is a change in how the budget is allocated. 105 million, of course, is not moving forward. There are some tail costs for next year that we'll be taking in this year. But overall, we see it as being quite neutral for this year in compared to whatever we save and whatever provisions we take for costs that would have occurred next year.

All right. And secondly, I mean, you're able to specify your guidance on this increasing visibility on the performance of the businesses. I assume the visibility on the milestone should also be better. Could you perhaps speak a bit on your expectations for this and whether that visibility has shifted slightly from last quarter?

Well, as we have stated, we think that we will receive the milestone next year, '26, but it is possible that we receive that milestone already '25. But it's still not possible to state that as a fact that we get it this year. So we remain where we have been to this date that it's possible this year, but we are -- in our plans, it's next year.

Understood. And then finally, given the delay that you mentioned in the deliveries in Branded Products and Animal Health, is it fair to expect a slight boost to 4Q, assuming those deliveries are made as well as the normal business expected in 4Q? Or is it more of a pull-through dynamic?

Now I didn't quite get the question. Is it...

It's about the timing of shipments in Branded Products and Animal Health since we now saw some headwinds. Will there be a boost in Q4 now that...

No, I think it's just -- it's according to plan that we get them out here. So it's not boosting the Q4.

The next question comes from [ Matty Carola ] from OP Corporate Bank.

It is [ Matty Carola ]. I ask 2 Nubeqa related questions. First, regarding the U.S. situation and the pricing. I know you are not willing to say a lot about it, but maybe could you a little bit say about the political atmosphere. Do you or your partner get the pressure to lower the price? Or what's your kind of look right now if you look on another side of the Atlantic?

Well, I think that's a good question regarding the U.S. business environment. However, I think a question whether our partner gets pressured or needs to change price, I think it's fair to say that, that needs to be asked from Bayer. It's not my place to comment that matter. But in general, there are a lot of things happening in U.S. regarding the pricing, the most favored nation initiative and also, of course, the tariffs. So we follow the situation carefully.

All right. Then the second one, you received the latest permits in the U.S. during the summer and also in Europe regarding the latest indication. Have you seen kind of significant volume change or kind of any change about the sales during the Q3 if we speak about the kind of adoption rates or any other kind of sales indication, which is visible after you got the final sales permits?

Well, we don't -- of course, we see that the volumes are increasing. That's a very positive thing. But we don't have a kind of a step change if you're referring to that with the new indication. It's more of a linear growth. So it's very positive. I'm sure ARANOTE has a positive effect as it can be used also without docetaxel. But to have a kind of a step change or big growth there, such we don't see exactly.

[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from Anssi Raussi from SEB.

One question from me, and it's just to double check something you said during the presentation about Nubeqa royalties in Q4 compared to Q3. So I understood that we shouldn't expect similar growth as we saw last year, but anything else to add or comment on Q4 royalty rate? Maybe I didn't catch up everything you said in that comment.

Very good that you asked. I was trying to explain that last year, the royalty rate changed between Q3 and Q4. So...

During Q4.

During -- yes, not exactly between, but during Q4. So it had an impact so that the Q4 was clearly higher in Nubeqa sales or royalties to us. But this year, we already reached that royalty rate during Q3. So even though the royalties will be -- or the sales will be growing, so there will be a kind of a double effect of sales growing and royalties -- royalty percentage increasing during quarter 2. So that's the difference. I don't know if I explained it well or if my colleague wants to explain it even better.

Got it. And so is your royalty rate hit the cap during Q3? Was it at the end of the quarter? Or was the average rate already capped and will be similar in Q4? Or is it like the run rate at the end of Q3?

We reached the cap during Q3, not going to specifics at which point of time. But like Liisa said, kind of the message is that one should not expect similar step-up as you saw last year between Q3 and Q4 because in Q4 last year, we got the step-up coming from the royalty rate increase, but now that won't be happening between Q3 and Q4. So that was kind of the message that we expect the growth to continue, but similar kind of step-up as you saw last year, one should not expect.

There are no more questions at this time.

All right. Thank you, operator. Then we turn on to the chat questions. We have a couple here. You still have time to type in more if you have anything on your mind.

Let's start with one. This is actually already covered, but just to let you know that [ Aro ] is asking, is it still realistic to think that the EUR 180 million Nubeqa milestone would come already this year? And actually, you, Liisa, already addressed that question. So that's covered.

Then we are having one coming from Iiris Theman from DNB Carnegie. Regarding Nubeqa, have you received any feedback from Bayer how ARANOTE sales have developed? What are Bayer's comments?

I think not specific comments on ARANOTE . I think we are more or less following the all sales development. And as I said, it's linearly growing. So there, we haven't really seen any step-up due to ARANOTE. And let's remember that there might have been already off-label use with Nubeqa for this patient segment. So it might be that -- it might not be that dramatic, and that's what we've been trying to tell all along while we've been waiting for the ARANOTE approval.

All right. Thank you, Liisa. We have no further questions in the chat, but I got a message. Well, actually, now Iiris has a follow-up here. So why administration costs were lower year-on-year? And what should we expect for Q4?

Yes, There are typically quite many line items there, and some of those are -- can be just shifting from quarter-to-quarter. There can be also some definition changes, what is considered admin and what is considered in the other line items. There are quite minor changes in terms of the overall admin expenses. There's nothing big changing the normal inflation, which is across the board. But yes, I wouldn't expect any drastic differences.

All right. Thanks, Rene. Then we have a follow-up from Sami Sarkamies from Danske.

So following changed endpoints for ODM-208, so opevesostat, OMAHA trials, do you still foresee an interim readout in '26? Before you answer, of course, we need to point out that we have never estimated or foreseen that there will be a readout.

Interim readout. No, no, no. But I think that's public, the readout for the full year. It's that when...

Yes. Yes, the full readout, yes, but interim readout.

No, no, no. We are not going to comment that or we have never commented that. But the readout from both studies should be in 2028.

Yes, that's correct. Then we have a follow-up from Heikkila. He says that Orion's R&D costs have been increasing clearly. At which point do you expect these increases to show as a growth in terms of net sales? And to which development programs are you focusing the most after Nubeqa?

We clearly focusing the development programs that are in our hands, and that's ODM-212 now and of course, the biologics that are following that. And when can we expect that program to turn into sales? I would say that would be early 2030s.

All right. Thank you, Liisa. Now we have exhausted all the questions from the chat. And also, I got a message that there are no follow-ups in the conference call lines. So it's time for us to wrap up. Thank you for joining us today, and have a great rest of the day and week.

Thank you.