Expensify Aktie

Hello, and thank you for joining us for Expensify's Q2 2026 Earnings Call. My name is Niki, and I'm going to start off with the legal disclosure, and then I'll hand things off to Ryan Schaffer, our CFO; and David Barrett, our Founder and CEO.

Please note that all the information presented on today's call is unaudited. And during the course of this call, management may make forward-looking statements within the meaning of the federal securities laws. These statements are based on management's current expectations and beliefs and involve risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those described in these forward-looking statements. Forward-looking statements in the earnings release that we issued today, along with comments on this call, are made only as of today and will not be updated as actual events unfold.

Please refer to today's press release and our filings with the SEC for a detailed discussion of the risks that could cause actual results to differ materially from those expressed or implied in any forward-looking statements made today. Please also note that on today's call, management will refer to certain non-GAAP financial measures. While we believe these non-GAAP financial measures provide useful information for investors, the presentation of this information is not intended to be considered in isolation or as a substitute for the financial information presented in accordance with GAAP. Please refer to today's press release or the investor presentation for a reconciliation of these non-GAAP financial measures to their most comparable GAAP measures.

And with that, I'll hand it over to Ryan Schaffer, our CFO.

Thanks, Niki, and thanks, everyone, for joining today's call. Let's start with the Q2 financials. Revenue for the quarter was $33.9 million. Average paid members were 640,000. Expensify Card interchange revenue across both Classic and New Expensify was $5.9 million, up 12% year-over-year. While we continue to see some pressure on the top line, our focus remains firmly on the financials of the business and on executing the work required to return to sustainable growth. Even though revenue has declined year-over-year, we've been working hard to meaningfully improve profitability and cash flow.

Operating cash flow was $8.4 million and free cash flow was $6.4 million. Our GAAP net loss improved to $3.9 million from $8.8 million a year ago. Non-GAAP net income was $3.4 million compared to a non-GAAP net loss last year, and adjusted EBITDA improved to $6.6 million from a negative adjusted EBITDA a year ago. These results reflect the discipline with which we're managing the business as we focus on improving execution, returning to growth and creating long-term value. Q2 free cash flow of $6.4 million was up 2% from the same period last year and up 162% from the previous quarter. Given that trajectory, we're raising our full year 2026 free cash flow guidance from $6 million to $9 million up to $12 million to $14 million. As always, we'd like to give you an early look at next quarter's paid member trends.

For July 2026, we had 634,000 paid members. As you can see from previous years, July tends to run a bit lower as people take vacations and travel less for business. This is the usual summer dip, and we'd expect things to pick back up as we move through Q3.

Turning to capital allocation. This was an active quarter for us. We commenced and completed a modified Dutch auction tender offer, repurchasing approximately 6.1 million shares of Class A common stock at $1.20 per share. That tender was actually substantially undersubscribed despite the premium we offered on the stock price. So following its completion, we went into the open market and purchased an additional 712,000 shares at an average price of $1.63 per share.

Altogether, that brings our total Q2 repurchase to approximately 6.8 million shares of Class A common stock, which represents roughly a 7% reduction in shares outstanding. We think this reflects real conviction in the value of this business and is a continued commitment to returning capital to shareholders even as we keep investing in growth.

With that, I'll hand it over to David for a business and product update.

Thanks, Ryan. Q2 was a quarter where I think the product itself tells the story better than any single number could. We made real progress in AI on product velocity. And as Ryan just covered in capital allocation, let me walk you through what that actually looked like for our customers. I want to start with something a customer told us this quarter because it captures exactly what we're building towards.

Laura Redmond of Redmond Accounting, put it this way. "Expense approvals used to sit in my inbox for days, waiting for me to eyeball a $40 lunch receipt. That's not judgment. That's just routing. I set up an agent rule that clears anything in policy on its own. I got back hours a week I didn't even know I was losing." That's the whole thesis in one sentence.

Most approval work isn't judgment. It's routing and routing is exactly what we should be automating away. That's what agent rules do. It's what we call Level 3 workflow automation. Tag, categorize, edit, route, hold, approve, reject or pay based on natural language rules that get evaluated with LLM judgment inside of real-time workflow. So instead of writing rigid if this, then that logic, you just tell it what you want in plain English and it handles judgment calls the way Laura's example showed.

The next step up from that is custom agents, what we call Level 4. These are prompt-driven agents that collaborate over chat, e-mail and SMS with employees, vendors or clients. They're both reactive, responding to internal or external events as they happen and proactive, taking scheduled actions on their own. So where agent rules handles routing within the workflow, custom agents can actually go and have that conversation on your behalf. And this one is no longer in beta. It's live.

The Expensify MCP gives third-party AI assistants a direct connection to Expensify. So tools like ChatGPT, Claude and Cursor can access expense data through natural language right from within those apps. We think this is a meaningful differentiator and it's a good example of us meeting customers inside the tools they are increasingly using. Beyond the AI work, Q2 is one of our strongest shipping quarters yet with more than 30 features and enhancements, and I want to hit a few highlights from each month rather than read the whole list. This slide has the details for anyone who wants them. In April, the headline was really bring your own card.

We shipped personal card imports directly into the Expensify wallet and shared card feeds across workspaces, so customers can keep using the corporate cards they already have and still get full expense automation with no card migration required. In May, we focused on giving admins more control without more overhead. Card freeze and unfreeze and CSV company card imports both extend that same bring your own card thesis, making it easier for finance teams to bring existing card programs into Expensify.

We also expanded prohibited expense detection, a good example of AI quietly doing enforcement work that used to be manual. And in June, as I just covered, the Expensify MCP went live, alongside real-time Expensify card rules and automatic VAT capture via SmartScan, which starts to open up more of our international opportunity. It's been gratifying to see that work recognized externally, too.

We were named Expense Management Platform of the Year at the TravelTech Breakthrough Awards this quarter. Now I want to step back because I think the simplest way to understand Expensify right now is that we're not really one company or 2. Expensify Classic is the gold standard for traditional expense management. It established what's now the traditional design in the category: web and mobile app, credit card import, plus scanning, plus GPS mileage tracking in an end-to-end workflow with export to cloud accounting and next-day reimbursement.

That was our focus for the first 12 years, culminating in our IPO. But here is the thing. Less than 1% of global businesses are actually interested in traditional expense management approach. New Expensify is the new standard for AI expense management. A mobile-first, chat-first design that puts humans and AI agents in the same workflow.

With a stripped-down, AI-centric experience that works over email and meets users wherever they already are. New Expensify is what lets us go after the other 99%. And each of those two products plays a different role for us financially. Classic is a steady profit engine. It requires minimal engineering and direct investment, but it produces a substantial cash flow. New sign-ups only ever see New Expensify now. So Classic is a large but deliberately shrinking set of customers. That's fine.

Classic has given us the platform and the resources to build New Expensify in the first place. We believe New Expensify, on the other hand, is our rapid growth engine into a genuinely untapped market. Essentially, all of our engineering has been devoted to it for years now, and most of our customers and users, including both net new sign-ups and migrated Classic customers, are on it today.

It's extremely competitive and growing rapidly on top of and separate from the Classic migration itself. And you can see that growth directly in the numbers. Net new revenue from New Expensify, meaning revenue from customers who signed up on New Expensify and never touched Classic. So this excludes all of the Classic customers who simply migrated over, grew more than 250% year-on-year to over $10 million in ARR.

So to summarize the quarter, our Classic to New migration has entered its long tail. Virtually all Classic customers have been nudged towards New Expensify. Most of them choose to stay, and now we have more users on New than on Classic. New Expensify itself grew rapidly, with net new revenue up over 250% year-on-year to more than $10 million in ARR.

Our card program continued to scale, with combined Classic and New Expensify card interchange revenue up 12% year-over-year to $5.9 million. We launched a wide range of customer-requested features, more than 30 this quarter, including the MCP server and our new AI agents, which ultimately earned us a Platform of the Year award. And we returned capital to shareholders, repurchasing approximately 6.8 million shares of Class A common stock, representing about 7% reduction in our shares outstanding.

Our path forward is the same one we've talked about since the IPO. Keep migrating the remaining Classic customers onto New Expensify, where they get a dramatically better experience, and keep accelerating new customer acquisition into a market that's still almost entirely untapped. What's different today is that now we have increasingly solid evidence the plan is working.

With that, thank you all for joining us today, and let's move to Q&A.

Aaron, I believe you're on the line with us.

I'm here. First one for me. The free cash flow guide for the year was initially a little bit lighter for 2026 at $6 million to $9 million on the 4Q call in late February. You reiterated it on the 1Q call in May. Tonight, you took it up $5.5 million at the midpoint. I guess the question is, where are you in terms of the sales and marketing investments as well as AI investments that you initially cited as part of the drag on free cash flow in '26 on the original guide relative to '25 free cash flow?

Great question. So we are deploying our sales and marketing dollars that has started. We have some more coming later this year. Also, we are currently in a, I think, a place a lot of companies are where our AI spend is scaling, but we're also now looking at it and trying to cut it back. Luckily, we have the best spend management software in the world. So we're doing a great job doing that responsibly.

So it's scaling but also I'm trying to figure out how we can reduce it without impacting operations. And also, I just want to point out that we had a class action lawsuit settlement in Q1, and we weren't exactly sure how that was going to turn out, and that's all behind us. So that also helps put a -- now that we kind of a that's a known quantity, that helps put a better -- we can see what the numbers are going to look like a little bit better now that that's kind of behind us.

Got it. And then the second question I have, so the $10 million in New Expensify ARR exclusive of prior classic customers that switched over, is really encouraging. I guess what I'm interested in is what's the 250% year-over-year number? And any commentary you can give on the sequential growth of what that might have looked like a quarter ago. I think that's the most important thing for investors right now, just trying to figure out whether New Expensify is bringing in net new customers and revenue at a rate that it's going to continue to accelerate and become a more meaningful part of the business, right? At the $10 million ARR, it's still less than 10% of the total business from those net new customers on New Expensify.

Sure. That makes sense. Maybe I'll be curious, Ryan, for your thoughts on this in a second. But I guess I would say I think that is the real kind of story and challenge of the company right now. On one hand, if this company were exclusively New Expensify, we would all be high-fiving each other as the hottest startup in the space by far. And that we have a product which is super rad, it's very competitive, it's growing really quick. It's already got almost 12,000 customers or already like over $10 million in ARR. This is a great startup. And also we have this Classic product, which has been around forever, which is producing a tremendous amount of cash that we've used to fund and build this startup.

And either of those is actually quite valuable, like having a super fast-growing expense management startup combined with a kind of super cash flow positive sort of traditional product. Both of those are actually really, really nice to have. But when you combine them, it looks like a single company that has kind of like nothing going on. So it's a very confusing story that we admit. That's why we're trying to -- and it's a story we've been telling for a long time.

We understand why people could be confused. That's why we're trying to break it out a bit here to clarify that, no, actually, there's something really rocking and rolling here. Also, there's something else that's funding it, which is a really great thing. And so the question is, how does those balance out? And it's a great question. I guess if we had better insight, we would be giving better forecasting.

And I would say right now our challenge is we've solved the -- what I would say is the hardest part, and that is build an incredibly successful new differentiated product in this market. And I think that this chart really shows the growth of that product, and it's really good. Now what we need to do is we need to complete migrating everyone over to it and addressing basically any sort of anxieties along the way. Recall that New Expensify is it's a new product that's pretty differentiated. It's quite different. And it is targeted to a much larger market than the one that we were historically targeting.

And so there are a lot of conversations with existing customers who are like, "Well, how does this really -- how do these changes, like how do they work for me?" And it reminds me a bit like when I get a Tesla for the first time, years ago, and I went in, and I was just shocked like, it doesn't have a key, you don't start the car, you just drive. You don't even turn on the windshield wipers. Just figures -- it's just such a different experience, like it has no buttons. It's a wildly different experience, and that can be a little jarring. And I think that's of some of the experience we're dealing with now is basically it's like, how do we get existing customers onto the new platform such that we can address kind of the churn, which is gradually eroding the traditional customer base.

And so the question is, well, which is going to happen first? Will New Expensify's growth just get to a scale that it can overcome Classic's churn? And also, what can we do to reduce and reverse Classic's churn by getting those customers onto New Expensify and then cross-selling our new products and so forth. So there's kind of 2 different business strategies playing out in parallel. Which of those is going to win, which is going to happen first? I mean it's a combination of both.

But it's a pretty dynamic system right now. And so it's -- if I had better insight, I would be sharing it. But right now, we're just saying there are these really positive trends on both sides, and it's a little unclear which is going to win out. Anyway, I don't know -- that's kind of my take on the answer. I'd be curious for your thoughts, Ryan.

So Aaron, I believe you asked what's the sequential quarter? I don't have that offhand. I'm just -- I'm looking at the graph. And it looks like we were at a little around 7 end of Q1. So we're just around 12 in end of Q2. So it's growing pretty rapidly, which is why we're highlighting this. The -- to maybe just put a little finer point on what David just said. Basically, we have our large -- we've broken the customer base out into 2 cohorts. We have our large Classic cohort, which is slowly decreasing.

And of course, it's decreasing because we're not adding new customers to it, right? It's -- you cannot join the Classic cohort anymore. And then we have the New Expensify cohort, which is small but growing rapidly. So if you were to line up 2 charts, one, which is the Classic slowly declining. And on top of it, you overlaid New Expensify rapidly increasing. Eventually, those 2 lines intersect and then we're just in a growth mode again. So we think that, that is on its way. We don't know exactly what's going to happen. We think it's coming soon. And so we're just sharing the information that we have.

I appreciate that. And I had missed the graphic with the deluge of earnings after the bell. So this really helps. And then I guess the last question I would have is just any color on the percentage of total ARR that comes from New Expensify when you include the migrations from Classic today? Is it a meaningful part of the business?

So over -- I believe it is 56% of users are on New Expensify. So we have crossed more people use New Expensify than Classic now. So that's a pretty major milestone that we hit this quarter.

But also, I would say, virtually all new revenue is coming from New Expensify because you can't buy Classic anymore. It's -- we only sell New. And so I'd say all incremental revenue is being added via New.

Great. Daniel, I believe you're on the line. Daniel Jester. I have a couple of Daniels.

Hope you can hear me? Can we just continue the conversation then about New Expensify? And so I think from a client perspective and a user perspective, I think this all is very clear. Is there a different monetization opportunity for New Expensify customers versus Classic?

I can take a crack at this and see what Ryan has to say after that. Fundamentally, it's solving the same problem, and it's solving it using the same servers and the same support team and the same sales team and everything. So the business model is fundamentally the same. I view it more as just a refinement on executing the fundamental business model. And by that, I mean, what makes Expensify special is not necessarily that it's buttons click faster or whatever it might be, but that it allows customers to close their books faster because we recognize that a huge fraction of the delay in closing the books starts with, kind of -- it's tied up in the human collaboration element.

And so New Expensify is really about trying to help streamline the collaboration elements between humans and also bring in AI agents to do the work that historically humans had to do, the kind of the collaborative chatting elements, the light judgment elements and routing elements that historically humans had to do. And so it's the same fundamental business model. It's just much, much better at it.

So for example, Classic has always grown primarily through word of mouth and individual employees adopting the product before the boss. That just works way better in New Expensify because it's a simpler product to adopt. It's more like WhatsApp than it is like an enterprise tool, and you also don't need to use the app. You can just use email. And so the bulk of the market out there is just using e-mail and Excel.

And so this is trying to meet people where they currently are by saying, it's like, hey, you like using email for your expenses? Cool, keep doing that. But rather than emailing a human, just email our agent, and then it's going to work the same for you, but now your accountant doesn't have to basically manually enter it into the accounting system. And so again, I would say fundamentally, the monetization is the same from a business model perspective. The difference, however, is I believe it's going to have a much larger addressable market because it's a fundamentally different experience that appeals to the 99% of the market that just has consistently opted out of a traditional kind of like enterprise-heavy kind of like web-based design. Anyway, that's kind of my crack at that answer. Ryan, I'm curious what you think. And I think you're on mute.

I'm muted. Okay. All right. We have -- so we are adding new monetization to the product. We launched a new feature called Consolidated Travel Billing, which is a new way we're monetizing travel. That's very new, but that's an exciting way to pull some more transactional revenue out of our travel product. We also recently launched a lot of AI features. And I think that some sort of usage-based monetization is something we're heavily considering. It's still early days there, but I think that's something that we're considering and nothing to announce today, but we are looking at new ways to generate revenue and developing new product features.

Also invoicing is -- sorry, bill pay is on the horizon, a lot of opportunities there. So I think that we're going to continue to layer more monetization opportunities into the product on top of what we already have.

That is very helpful. And maybe speaking of that, can we spend a moment around what you saw in terms of payment volumes and revenue this quarter? It looked like you saw an improvement in growth compared to the first quarter. And so what are you seeing there? And just maybe any updates you're able to share in terms of the penetration of the card into the base and how that's been progressing?

So I think the card continues to do really well, which is, I think, encouraging because our -- probably we have 2 kind of big marketing messages right now. One is really centered on AI, but another one is really pushing what we call BYOC, bring your own card. This is a marketing message that we have found to be very effective, especially with all the noise. Everyone has a card these days. We have found the message that you can bring your own card and use Expensify.

One interesting aspect of Expensify is that we don't require you to use our card. If you look at our kind of neo card competitors, Ramp, Brex and the like, you have to use their card. There's -- that's how they make money. So if you use -- if you switch to them, you have to use their card. We don't require you to switch. We'd love to give you an Expensify card. But if you want to use your own card, that's great, too. And there's a lot of people who don't want one of these neo cards. They like their card, they like their Amex, they like their Capital One, whatever they have, and they don't want to switch.

So if you're one of those people, Expensify is kind of not only the best option, it's kind of your only option. So that message has been working really well for us. And I'm just pointing out that the card is continuing to grow despite the fact that we're pushing all of our marketing efforts towards saying you don't need -- you can bring your own card. So it's -- I think that's pretty interesting. And I think things are moving in the right direction.

And would you share anything about maybe what sort of compared to the first quarter, how second quarter payment volumes trended? Any sort of high-level thoughts about what you saw?

I mean a modest increase, right, quarter-over-quarter. So I think we're just consistently adding more volume quarter-after-quarter and it just continues to grow.

Okay. And then one last one for me on maybe the pipeline in terms of how you're seeing travel. I know that's a little bit of a different sales cycle. And I'd love to kind of hear how the ramping process is going there on the sales front.

So the -- we just launched, I mentioned earlier, a feature called Consolidated Travel Billing, which is kind of our answer, we think it's pretty unique and exciting in the market. It's basically -- it's similar to central billing, but it solves all the problems that a central billing card creates. So we have -- this is kind of the new hotness for travel, and we have a huge list of customers that are basically waitlisted on it, and we are now -- we have like a contest internally, a big push basically to get everyone onto this new feature that we just launched, and it's quite lucrative for us.

So we are very excited about that. And I think travel just continues to be something that brings us large customers, and it gets us in the conversation with these kind of larger enterprises. So it's -- we're still very excited about travel, and it's one of the pillars of our business.

All right. That rounds out all our questions.

Great. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to talking to us here. It's been a really, really exciting quarter. And so I can't wait to talk more again in the future. So thank you so much.

Hello, and thank you for joining us for Expensify's Q1 2026 Earnings Call. I'm going to start off with the legal disclosure and then hand off to Ryan Schaffer, our CFO; and David Barrett, our Founder and CEO.

Please note that all the information presented on today's call is unaudited. And during the course of this call, management may make forward-looking statements within the meaning of the federal securities laws. These statements are based on management's current expectations and beliefs and involve risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those described in these forward-looking statements.

Forward-looking statements in the earnings release that we issued today, along with the comments on this call, are made only as of today and will not be updated as actual events unfold. Please refer to today's press release and our filings with the SEC for a detailed discussion of the risks that could cause actual results to differ materially from those expected or implied in any forward-looking statements made today. Please also note that on today's call, management will refer to certain non-GAAP financial measures.

While we believe these non-GAAP financial measures provide useful information for investors, the presentation of this information is not intended to be considered in isolation or as a substitute for the financial information presented in accordance with GAAP. Please refer to today's press release or the investor presentation for a reconciliation of these non-GAAP financial measures to their most comparable GAAP measures. And with that, I'll hand it over to Ryan.

Thank you, Niki, and thanks, everyone, for joining today's call. Let's start with the Q1 financials. Revenue for the quarter was $34 million, down 6% year-over-year. Average paid members were 632,000, down 4% year-over-year. Total interchange revenue was $5.5 million, up 10% year-over-year. While we continue to see pressure on the top line, we are really focused on the fundamentals of the business and focusing our efforts on returning to growth.

Operating cash flow was $0.1 million and free cash flow was $2.5 million. The difference in those numbers is largely driven by the timing of customer payments. Our GAAP net loss was $2.3 million. Our non-GAAP net income was $3.6 million and adjusted EBITDA was $6.2 million. So while revenue has declined, profitability is still strong, and that's a key theme for the business right now. As mentioned, we generated $2.5 million in free cash flow this quarter. It's worth noting that we also had a onetime legal payment of $2.6 million related to the class action lawsuit we've since settled. Absent that payment, we would have seen roughly $5 million of free cash flow this quarter.

With that said, we remain conservative in our outlook and are reiterating our full year 2026 free cash flow guidance of $6 million to $9 million. As always, we'd like to provide a look into the performance of next quarter's paid active member number. For April 2026, we had 641,000 paid active members, which is an improvement from our Q1 average and what we think is an encouraging sign for the quarter. In conclusion, we are focusing on maintaining strong fundamentals in the business, investing in long-term growth opportunities, migrating customers to new Expensify and iterating quickly on their feedback. And with that, I'll hand it over to David for a product update.

Thanks, Ryan. I think the simplest way to frame Q1 is this. We're building a more durable, more profitable business today while setting ourselves up for a much stronger growth story tomorrow. The numbers show the transition, but the product tells you where we're going and how far we've actually come.

In Q1, we made meaningful progress in both distribution and product adoption. A major focus was accelerating our Bring Your Own Card strategy. Historically, companies often had to change cards to get the full value of expense automation. With BYOC, they can keep the corporate cards they already have, connect them to Expensify and automatically import transactions as expenses. That removes a major adoption barrier and lets us meet customers where they already are.

We also expanded our partnership footprint. We renewed our referral program with ANZ and Kiwibank and partnered with the Institute of Commercial Payments, giving us stronger visibility across the banking and commercial payments ecosystem. At the same time, we broadened the commercial ecosystem around Expensify with new ERP relationships with Campfire and Rillet, plus a travel integration with American Airlines. The goal is simple, make Expensify fit naturally into the systems businesses already use.

On the product side, Q1 was a strong shipping quarter with more than 30 improvements across the app. In January, we focused on practical finance workflows, better top spending visibility, receipt rotation, automatic approval routing, bulk card assignment, bank account sharing, clear card status labels and Uber for Business discounts.

In February, we launched a new Home tab, upgraded insights, made Concierge available in more places and added merchant and itemized receipt rules. These are important because they move Expensify from simply capturing expenses to actively helping users manage spend, automate coding and resolve issues faster.

In March, we continued that momentum with account-related client workspaces, GPS miles tracking, expanded insights charts, stronger virtual card controls, mobile receipt cropping, faster report creation, bulk expense selection, inline editing, CSV member imports and smarter Home tab alerts. Taken together, these updates make new Expensify faster, more automated and more useful for both individual employees and finance teams.

Stepping back, Q1 is about strengthening the foundation while setting up the next phase of growth. The Expensify Card continued to perform well with interchange revenue growing to $5.5 million, up 10% year-over-year. We also continue to generate cash, producing positive operating cash flow and $2.5 million of free cash flow in the quarter.

At the same time, we're seeing encouraging growth signals. April paid active users increased to 641,000 above Q1 average of 632,000. Combined with product velocity you just saw, the expansion of BYOC and major AI capabilities coming in June, we believe the business is positioned for a potential inflection point. So our focus remains consistent, keep improving new Expensify, reduce adoption friction, expand distribution and turn the product momentum we're seeing into durable growth. With that, thank you to everyone for joining. Let's hop into Q&A.

Perfect. Mark, I believe you're on the line, if you want to open us up for the Q&A.

Can you hear me okay?

Yes.

Dave, just a question on a comment in your prepared remarks. You mentioned that you believe that the business was poised for an inflection point. I was wondering if you could just dig into that a little bit more.

Sure. I mean I think that this isn't a new thing. We've been talking for a long time. The whole strategy behind new Expensify is to shift away from kind of a more traditional expense management solution towards a more modern collaborative AI-focused solution. And so we knew this was going to be a huge investment. We knew it's going to take a long time, and we're at the tail end of that.

So we've been migrating users over. And I think we're just extremely pleased with the reaction we're getting from traditionally classic customers moving to new Expensify, seeing new capabilities, the AI, the collaboration, all that. And so I think on one hand, it's just a lot of kind of mostly anecdotal, but really positive evidence coming from customers migrating over.

Also just seeing the excitement from new customers, kind of what we refer to as new native customers, customers who've never seen Expensify Classic. They're just coming to the product, and they really just get it and they like it and they really value it. And so it's validated a lot of our design decisions, and I think we feel really confident in that.

And then, of course, there's just kind of the green shoot indicators like April was pretty good from a paid member growth perspective as we saw. And so again, a lot of this is nothing new.

This is the story we've been telling for a very long time. But the story has always involved basically making a kind of difficult, but big swing on what we think is still a massive, massive opportunity out there. Like when I think that there's nothing that fundamentally has changed about the market in the sense that I still think there's something like 100 to 1,000x more opportunity out there than this traditional opportunity has ever seen.

New Expensify is designed to go out and get it. I think we're more and more confident that we can. It's not going to happen overnight, but we're a long-term business. We've always said that. And I think we just feel very excited and have a lot of conviction in that long-term strategy.

Great. And then as a follow-up, maybe if you could just update us on the percentage of your classic customers that have migrated to the new platform.

I think it's about 60%, I would say. The main thing -- the migration is going well. The nice thing about migration is we control the time line of it, and we are migrating customers over and then paying very close attention to any feedback they have. I would say the most important feedback we've had is simply performance.

The functionality is great, and it's reliable, but it's just not fast enough for the larger customers. And so we never want to migrate over a customer that we're not confident is going to have a great experience. And so we're -- I'd say just in general, a lot of our engineering has shifted away from big sort of capital projects and more towards just rapidly integrating with the specific features that customers request, responding to feedback and so forth.

And so right now, I would say a big thrust of our engineering is simply on hardening and improving the performance of our existing functionality and new.

And then along with that, to date, your migration strategy for the new Expensify platform has relied mainly on carrots rather than sticks and with about 60% migration so far, do you plan to shift that approach to move the rest over?

I mean I don't think so. I think the carrots work pretty well. They've been working well for us. And again, we have the ability to maintain Classic. And so we don't -- we're not backed into a corner in a sense like we don't have to push people over. We do it because we think we can give them a better experience. And so there's no reason to, I guess, threaten anyone. It's -- we want to pull them over with honey rather than vinegar. Is that how that saying goes.

And so I think that we got plenty of time to do that. I think we have plenty of good opportunity or super exciting functionality to pull them over. In fact, I would say one of the challenges is we have larger customers that want to come over and we're like, look, I know the functionality is really powerful. I know that it does all this new stuff, but the performance just isn't there yet. And so I would say I think we're experiencing a bit of the opposite problem where we have enthusiasm to come over, and it's just not quite there from a performance perspective. And so that's where a lot of our attention is at.

Just a confirmation that we were double booked. So we will speak to our other analysts offline with everyone we have live on the call right now.

Great. Well, thank you, everyone, for dialing in. It's definitely an exciting time for us. I think we're super excited about where this is going. And so I appreciate your time.

Thank you.

Hello, and thank you for joining us for Expensify's Q4 and Full Year 2025 Earnings Call. I'm going to start off with the legal disclosure, and then I'll be handing over to Ryan Schaffer, our CFO; and David Barrett, our Founder and CEO.

Please note that all the information presented on today's call is unaudited. And during the course of this call, management may make forward-looking statements within the meaning of the federal securities laws.

These statements are based on management's current expectations and beliefs and involve risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those described in these forward-looking statements.

Forward-looking statements in the earnings release that we issued today, along with the comments on this call, are made only as of today and will not be updated as actual events unfold. Please refer to today's press release and our filings with the SEC for a detailed discussion of the risks that could cause actual results to differ materially from those expressed or implied in any forward-looking statements made today.

Please also note that on today's call, management will refer to certain non-GAAP financial measures. While we believe these non-GAAP financial measures provide useful information for investors, the presentation of this information is not intended to be considered in isolation or as a substitute for the financial information presented in accordance with GAAP. Please refer to today's press release or the investor presentation for a reconciliation of these non-GAAP financial measures to their most comparable GAAP measures.

And with that, I'll hand it over to Ryan Schaffer.

Thank you, Niki, and thank you all for joining today's call. It was an exciting year for Expensify. We were the title sponsor of Apple's F1 movie. We generated nearly $20 million in free cash flow. We started incorporating more and more AI into the user experience and we made substantial progress on the migration to our new Expensify platform.

Now let's dive into the Q4 financials. Revenue was $35.2 million. Average paid members were 650,000 and total interchange was $5.5 million. Our Q4 operating cash flow was $2.2 million. Our Q4 free cash flow was $3.2 million and net loss was $7.1 million.

Our Q4 non-GAAP net loss was $2.1 million and adjusted EBITDA was $3.3 million. Now let's move on to fiscal year 2025. In fiscal year '25, revenue was $142.1 million, average paid members was 650,000 and total interchange was $21.3 million.

Fiscal year '25 operating cash flow was $20.1 million. Free cash flow was $19.9 million and net loss was $21.4 million. That net loss was primarily driven by stock-based comp and expenses related to the F1 movie.

Our full year 2025 non-GAAP net income was $5.2 million and adjusted EBITDA was $16.9 million. Now let's talk about free cash flow guidance for 2026. Our fiscal year '25 free cash flow was $19.9 million, coming in at the high end of our initial guidance of $16 million to $20 million for 2025.

We are initiating fiscal year 2026 free cash flow guidance of $6 million to $9 million. That's lower than previous years due to a conservative outlook on 2026, combined with the fact that we are expecting to increase investment in sales and marketing as well as AI this year.

We will continue to keep you updated on our free cash flow guidance as it evolves throughout the year. As always, here's our Q1 flash numbers for our paid members in January. We saw 626,000 paid members in the first month of Q1. We typically see a lot of seasonality in January and it is generally down compared to December, and then we usually see members increase in future months.

Now turning to some business highlights for fiscal year 2025. We entered a multiyear integration partnership with Uber for Business to automate travel and meal receipts, strengthening policy controls across corporate travel and expense workflows.

This partnership reinforces the power of our platform and deepens our integration into customers' day-to-day spend processes. We were also recognized with the TrustRadius 2026 Buyers' Choice Award in the expense management category, which is based directly on customer reviews, highlighting our capabilities, value for price and customer relationships.

We think it's encouraging to receive that third-party validation based off of reviews from our users. Expensify travel continues to be an area of growth in the business. Bookings in Q4 are up 434%, compared to Q4 of 2024. The sustained growth reflects strong customer adoption and continued momentum around our travel offering.

The Expensify Card is another bright spot in the business. Interchange increased 24% in fiscal year 2025, compared to the prior year. And finally, we repurchased over 4.8 million shares of our Class A common stock throughout 2025, totaling approximately $9 million, reflecting management's continued confidence in the long-term opportunity of the business.

And now I'll hand it over to David for a product update.

Thanks, Ryan. So it's been a really exciting quarter on the product side, and I want to walk through a few things, where we are in migration, some new stuff we're going around cards and growth and then our AI story, which I think is getting really, really interesting.

So as you know, a key element of our business strategy is to get existing customers over to new Expensify. And I'm happy to say we're basically there. New Expensify now has full feature parity with Classic for customers representing 90% of our revenue.

That's the target we've been working towards, and we've hit it. Classic isn't going away. We're keeping it around for customers who need it or prefer it. But the big news is new Expensify is feature complete for essentially everyone. We've now rolled it out to 63% of Classic customers.

The way we do this is what we call nudging. We move customers over in cohorts. They can always switch back to Classic if they want, and the vast majority simply stay. They choose to stay on new, and that's really the signal. Nobody is making them. They just like it better. Right now, we're focused on performance and polish while we work through the best.

And we're beginning the migration of our approved accounting network, which is a big deal. These are the accountants managing the books for a huge chunk of our customer base. We built much more powerful native reporting and charging for them and I'm particularly excited about what we're calling our virtual CFO insights.

It gives accountants a whole new level of visibility into the clients' financials that just didn't exist before. So one thing I want to highlight that I think is underappreciated. Most of the market still uses traditional bank cards.

We're talking more than 55% of businesses according to recent NBER research. Every accountant out there has clients, who want to keep their existing card and the reality, we support all of them.

Expensify connects to over 10,000 global banks and over 80% of those card imports happen via direct bank connections at 0 marginal cost to us. So we're not just the best product for the Expensify Card. We believe we're the best product for whatever card you already have.

And now we're layering real spend management tools on top of that. Merchant-based rules can be fine grades coding control. So you can say every time someone swipes this merchant, apply these categories, these tags, this client, it just happens automatically.

And integrated online reconciliation means you're not doing exports anymore. It's all right there. This is a really compelling story for accountants, especially because our clients aren't all going to switch cards and now we're the best answer regardless.

And here's something I'm really excited about. As migration completes, we're turning our attention back to what's always been Expensify's core strengths, product-led growth. Here's the thing. Over half of our sign-ups have never been team leaders. Most of our customers were introduced to Expensify by an employee, not a boss.

That's always been our superpower. Employees discover us, fall in love with us and then the company follows, bottom-up lead gen to a top-down sale.

New Expensify is architected exactly like a social network, a single unpartitioned name space with any-to-any connectivity, and that architecture is what makes this possible. An employee can sign up before their boss even knows what Expensify is, and that creates a really interesting dynamic.

So we're launching a new submit plan. It's free for all members, and the idea is to get free expense and chat into the hands of employees the millions of businesses that signed up over the past 15 years.

We expect this will create grassroots collective pressure to adopt company-wide. It's the Expensify challenge, download the app, submit to your boss and see what happens. We've always done this, but New Expensify lets us do it at a totally different scale.

Okay. And now the AI side, which I think where things get really, really interesting. Everybody is talking about AI right now. So I want to be specific about what makes ours different because I genuinely think it is. We call it accountable intelligence. And the reason for that framing is that Concierge isn't just AI that does things. It's AI that can explain what it did, correct itself when wrong and keep working in the background while you sleep.

There's a line in the slide that I think really says it well. If your AI can't talk, can't explain what it did, can't learn from its mistakes and sleeps when you do, how intelligent is it really?

So there are 3 things I want to highlight. First, Concierge is contextual. Our whole thesis has been that chat is the UI of AI. It only works if the AI is built into the product, not stuff on top of it. You know the clipy analogy, something clearly designed separately, and that's kind of bolted on.

That's not what this is. With Concierge, wherever you are in the product, inside expense report, looking at a card swipe, hitting an error message, the AI is right there. You just ask what the thing you're already looking at, no copy paste, no uploading, no explaining a situation from scratch. Second, Concierge is correctable. This is the one that I think people underestimate. Automation is great until something goes wrong and you have no idea why or how to fix it. Concierge self-diagnoses and self-corrects. You can ask it why it did something. It will tell you, and then you can just tell to do something differently, that's done. No guesswork. That's a different relationship with automation than anything that exists today.

And third, Concierge is continuous. It's not sitting around waiting for you to ask at something. It's working in the background, reviewing the books, analyzing trends, monitoring system health and proactively flagging and fixing issues before they become real problems. That's what accountable means. It's not just smart, it's responsible.

So zooming out, I think the story of 2025 is that we lean into our strengths and it's showing up. Cross-selling is working. Card interchange grew 24% year-over-year to $21.3 million. Travel bookings grew over 400% from Q4 of last year to Q4 of this year. We generated nearly $20 million in free cash flow and repurchased over $9 million in shares.

These are the numbers of the business that's executing. Finally, the AI-first design is stronger than ever. Chat is the UI of AI. Our chat-first design makes us AI first by definition, and Concierge is the accountable AI that knows what you're talking about, can fix itself and wrong and works while you sleep. There's a lot more to come in all this. Happy to take your questions.

Great. Aaron, I think I see you on the line. Do you want to start us off?

Awesome. So my first question for you, Dave, is application software multiples have obviously been getting hammered in public markets recently, while investors think through terminal value questions with the zeitgeist being barriers to product development are significantly lower due to advances at the frontier labs, horizontal apps focusing on driving efficiencies and workflows performed by humans today that people think will be performed by agents in the future like Expensify have been hit particularly hard.

So the most important questions on investors' minds right now, I think, are what's Expensify's place in an AI world where you can buy code to semifunctional expense management app. I know you just talked about Concierge and the differentiation there. And then what are the primary moats that you see for the business?

Yes. Great questions. So I think fundamentally, vibe coding sort of the ability to generate app is going to wipe out huge classes of applications. But I think those applications are anything that falls in the category of you upload your own data, something analyzes it and then gives it back to you. And that basically operates in kind of a small dish where I think anyone who's just organizing their own receipts, for example, I agree.

I think that AI is a real challenge for that industry. However, that's really not our industry. AI is not particularly good in places, where it's highly collaborative, where, for example, you're actually sharing data with other people.

I'm not going to say it's not possible. I'm just saying it's just not really possible with the tools right now. Like with ChatGPT, with Claude, with Gemini, it's actually very hard to use the AI with someone else in the process. again, everything is doable, everything is changing.

But right now, kind of where we're at, collaboration is one of the key differentiations that makes sort of Expensify, one of the most because it's not just a tool to work with other people, Expensify is a tool for collaborating with other AIs as well. That's one.

I would say second, AI can only really automate what you can personally do. And so reading your own receipts, things like this, sure, AI is good at that. But AI can't like just issue a virtual card. Like you don't have that ability. You can't actually just directly transfer money through the ACH network. You have to go through some kind of a gatekeeper, the gatekeeper could be your bank or it's us.

But more importantly, it's not the AI itself. AI can only do what you can do, but you are not allowed to access the same kind of networks that we are. So one, I think there's basically anything collaborative is where I think applications still have a lot of strength.

Two, anything that accesses kind of like regulated financial networks is another place where we have strength. And so I think there's actually a variety of moats that still protect applications like Expensify because AI doesn't make you PCI compliant.

AI doesn't make you have anti-money laundering sort of compliance and sort of routine. And so I think there's still a tremendous amount of opportunity for working with the agents and not doing them so much as competitors, but the opportunity for new customers.

Eventually, you are going to want your agents to be making purchases for you. And you just -- but you don't trust the agents. I mean we see all these stories about how an AI just like wiped out the inbox of the top AI person in Meta or whatever it is.

AI aren't quite fully trustworthy yet. And so I think that before you give them control of your credit card, you're going to want to have spend controls in those AIs just like you want to have spend controls on your employees. And so I think the way that we see AIs and agents in the future is those are actually opportunities for more seats in the platform.

Every time you automate away an existing seat with an agent, that kind of creates another seat that needs controls as well. So I'm not going to lie, it is a very tumultuous world. I think that there's a lot of ways that things can go wrong. But there's also a lot of ways things can go incredibly right.

And so I think we've made a point starting years ago, recognizing there's this huge AI disruption on the way. And we invested for 5 years to build a platform that we think isn't merely designed to kind of survive this AI title wave, but really ride it and thrive in it. And so I'm actually way more excited about the opportunity that AI creates for a company like Expensify than the risks.

Got it. That's really thoughtful. It's good to hear a technologist opinion when you hear the constant loop of investors all day from my seat. And then the second question I have is this was the first quarter that paid members have increased since 4Q '24.

One of the tricky things on Expensify is always trying to figure out what's macro and what's idiosyncratic, especially with the migration to a new version of the product and competition with a lot of well-funded competitors.

So my question here is, what do you attribute that small increase in paid members to -- in 4Q '25? Do you think it's a result of the migration and people seeing success with people enjoying the new product or just macro?

I can take that one. So Q4 -- I mean, there's some seasonality, right? Q4 is generally pretty strong in the same way that January is usually not. So I think that, that is just kind of consistent with what we've seen in terms of Q4 generally performs better than Q3.

So I think it's primarily seasonal. However, I would say that it's expected because we typically see seasonality. However, I think migration obviously helps us retain customers. And obviously, it's something that we're -- as we deploy this in 2026 for the rest of our customers, we're going to be watching this really closely, and we think that it's going to help user growth in general.

All right. Well, I just heard back and our other analysts are going to meet us in the call back. So we are good to go.

All right, thanks. We appreciate it. Thanks, everyone.

Thank you all. Have a good one.

Welcome to the Expensify Q3 2025 Earnings. I'm CFO, Ryan Schaffer. And with me, I have our Founder and CEO, David Barrett. And now I'm going to hand it over to Niki for the legal lease.

Please note that all the information presented on today's call is unaudited. And during the course of this call, management may make forward-looking statements within the meaning of the federal securities laws. These statements are based on management's current expectations and beliefs and involve risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those described in forward-looking statements. Forward-looking statements in the earnings release that we issued today, along with the comments on this call, are made only as of today and will not be updated as actual events unfold. Please refer to today's press release and our filings with the SEC for a detailed discussion of the risks that could cause actual results to differ materially from those expressed or implied in any forward-looking statements made today.

Please also note that on today's call, management will refer to certain non-GAAP financial measures. While we believe these non-GAAP financial measures provide useful information for investors, the presentation of this information is not intended to be considered in isolation or as a substitute for the financial information presented in accordance with GAAP. Please refer to today's press release or the investor presentation for a reconciliation of these non-GAAP financial measures to their most comparable GAAP measures.

Thanks, Niki. Now let's dive into the Q3 financials. Revenue was $35.1 million. Average paid members were 642,000 and total interchange was $5.4 million. Our operating cash flow was $4.2 million. Our free cash flow was $1.2 million. Net loss was $2.3 million. Our non-GAAP net income was $4.3 million, and our adjusted EBITDA was $6.5 million.

Q3 free cash flow was a little less than in prior quarters. That's mostly due to seasonal timing of some annual payments. We also reiterate our fiscal year 2025 free cash flow guidance of $19 million to $23 million. As always, here's our Q4 flash numbers for our paid members in October, up from the Q3 average, which we always like to see, 653,000. And now to jump to some business highlights for Q3. We had some great marquee customer wins. We are now the Official Travel and Expense partner of the Brooklyn Nets, who is a long-time customer of our expense product, and they have adopted Expensify Travel that shows just the power of the platform and the fact that customers are really excited about this. So we're very happy to have the Brooklyn Nets as a new Expensify Travel customer.

On the topic of travel, bookings continue to climb, growing 36% from Q2 and 95% since Q1. So Expensify Travel continues to be a bright spot in the business and something both us internally and our customers are very excited about. We also repurchased 1.5 million in [ change ] shares of our Class A common stock, and that totaled approximately $3 million. And now I will hand it over to David for a product update.

Great. It has been an extremely exciting quarter when it comes to the product side. First off, talking about migration. As you know, everything hinges upon our ability to move existing customers over to New Expensify. That's what triggers and we think everything in the business is recovery and growth and so forth. And so we've made incredible progress on that.

At this point, we would say we're targeting what we call 90% feature parity [ beating ]. We want to support essentially 90% of the functionality of Classic on New Expensify. We're very close to that right now. We, of course, will always maintain Classic for existing customers as long as they need it. But the main thing right now is that New Expensify is largely complete when it comes to the functionality of Classic.

We've also migrated basically the data of nearly all customers to New Expensify, meaning that customers can switch back and forth between New and Classic as they like, which is a huge accomplishment.

So we're to the point where essentially New Expensify is essentially done from a feature perspective. And now we're just carefully what we call nudging customers over, meaning that we will make them sign into New Expensify the next time they sign in, but then they can optionally switch back to Classic. We've nudged all of our collect customers over. Now to be clear, we have basically 2 plans, Collect and Control. And so our Collect customers are smaller, simpler customers. We've migrated nearly all of them over to New Expensify, and the vast majority choose to stay on New Expensify rather than going back to Classic. And so this is a huge testament to the power of New Expensify.

Additionally, and I'd say this is one of the most exciting things, now we're closing all new customers on New Expensify, meaning that we will start every sales conversation on New Expensify, and we'll still switch back to Classic if there's some long-tail features, some esoteric integration or something like this that they might need. But we start every new conversation on New Expensify. And so that's been really, really powerful, especially at the conferences, especially as we roll out the new leads. So it's been great, great progress when it talks about migrating existing customers from Classic to New.

Additionally, it's been very exciting on the Concierge side. So we've been talking about this for a while. If you've been paying attention, AI is kind of a big deal. And so we've been talking about AI for a long time because new Expensify's entire design anticipates basically modern AI. And the way that we view it is AI is incredible, but it's also not foolproof. And so whereas some sort of -- some people really focus on AI [ in absolute ]. We view AI as a great feature for certain levels of functionality, and we would take the AI as far as it can and then have humans take it the rest of the way.

And so our design, which is very unique is a hybrid system. When you talk to Concierge, if it's a simple, common question or even just something very detailed about the product and sort of like from a help page, whatever it might be, the AI is really great at handling that question. It can do it better than the human, honestly. But if you get to a super complicated topic for diagnosis or if you have more kind of an emotional issue, that's where we bring in our human agents.

Now we can seamlessly switch back and forth between AI and humans sort of imperceptibly to the customer. And so to the customer, all they get is just an incredible chat support experience. But on our side, it's handled using AI or human seamlessly depending on who's best for the job. Likewise, this is a contextual AI, meaning that it's built into the product rather than sort of on top of the product.

I think you've seen a lot of AI solutions, which are kind of like Windows 95 Clippy where basically it's just something kind of stuck on top. It's very clearly not designed around the product. Ours is different. With Concierge, it's built into the product in every place. And so wherever it's natural for you to talk about -- talk to the AI, whether -- either you're talking directly to concierge or maybe you're inside of an expense report or even commenting on a particular expense. Our AI appears everywhere, so you can basically talk to it naturally in the context of that.

Additionally, we're building more, what I would call a general intelligence. I think there's a lot of different approaches towards this. And the most straightforward approach that people start with is they'll have kind of a collection of very purpose-built agents. And so maybe a specific agent will reach out to you in a particular narrow context and talk about one topic. It makes sense. That's a very easy place to start, and I think that's kind of where everyone starts.

Our design is going for more of a general intelligence, meaning that we've built a singular AI that can operate in a multimodal fashion. So you can talk to the same AI and you can ask it to scan receipt, categorize an expense. You can ask it very complex questions about how to configure Expensify. And so the same AI can do all of these different functions. What's nice about that is it really supports our contextual design.

So it's not like you have to have 10 different AIs hanging out in every single context and then you have to choose the right one based upon the question that you have. Rather, you can send any question to Concierge and it will always be able to answer it. This works especially well across platforms.

So you can talk to our Concierge sort of like single general intelligence over chat, obviously, but you can just e-mail it at [email protected] or just text it at 47777. And because it's a single general intelligence, you can ask it any questions in any of those. And so you can ask it to create expenses, ask it about your expenses, about your workspace, whatever it might be.

This is a really powerful platform that we think is unique and novel in the market. We don't think anyone else has this level of sort of general purpose financial AI out there. And so -- and this is just a start. To give some examples of kind of how this works in practice. So there's some basic stuff, of course, obviously, detecting not just whether the expense from like the merchant and amount is out of policy, but looking into the receipt itself, making assessments about what type of merchant it is and so forth. And so we can do a more detailed prohibitive expense detection.

Likewise, it's all the raise these days, AI is a big deal for not just the admins, but also for the employees. And so we detect AI-generated receipts and flag them. We have a feature that they call conversational corrections, meaning, of course, whenever you swipe the card or scan a receipt, we will categorize to the best of our ability based upon the information just on the receipt and merchant itself. But every company is different and sometimes it's ambiguity as to the correct way to categorize it.

So we'll narrow it down to a short list of the most likely options and just ask you which one is it? If you're in the app, you can just do it in one tap. If you're responding via text or e-mail, you can just respond with a number or whatever. And you don't have to pick some these options. You can also just say something else entirely. This is the advantage of a general AI, where if it asks you a question, you're not trapped into whatever conversation it wants you to do. You could actually just switch the script and ask me like, well, what are all the categories available or what's the last time that I did this, whatever it might be.

And so this general intelligence allows for a much more natural ability to correct and sort of categorize information. And as mentioned, this is a truly universal agent. You can have the same conversation in a wide variety of context, whether it's chat, e-mail, SMS and so forth. So this is a major release for Concierge AI, but it's really just the start. We think this is an incredibly powerful foundation that we've ironed out the kinks for, and you're going to see more and more incredibly powerful functionality being built across it over the quarters to come.

So just to kind of summarize everything at a high level, we've increasingly and continued selling in a very successful fashion travel and card to existing customers, which has been great. We've been putting our free cash flow to work, which is great. And despite all of this, beside all the chaos of everything, we've really stayed focused on investing in an AI-first design. And I think this is a big deal because obviously, everyone thinks a lot about AI. But I think that everyone's kind of gotten through the first wave, a lot of the easy stuff.

Here's where it starts to get much harder going on now. And so we think that chat is -- it's the UI for AI. If you can't talk to it, how smart can it really be? And so our design is to bring a chat-first design everywhere into the product such that it makes our entire product into an AI-first design. It's a very, very different design. I'd encourage you to check it out. And I think you'll see a glimpse of the future because we think everyone is going to be designing something like this over time.

Likewise, our New Expensify migration is on track, and we've got really great customer reception. This puts everyone into a position to talk with their AI in a much better way than they could with their previous product. And at the end of the day, it's really about anything that you can do via the UI, you should be able to do via AI. And so building a truly AI-first product where you can talk to the AI in a primary mechanism as opposed to just as a sort of secondary flow. Anyway, we're going to have lots more to talk about in the quarters to come. But for now, let's take any questions we can.

Perfect. Let's get started with Citi. I believe, George, you're on the line.

I'm on for Steve Enders. Maybe just on this point about chat as the UI for AI. This is something that you guys have been early to -- it's interesting from our perspective to watch other people kind of catch up to where you guys are in terms of building in natural language-driven UI into other software apps. I'm just curious from that head start that you've had, what have been some of the big like learnings or capabilities you've incorporated into the platform that when you watch others, you can see maybe them making missteps or where you feel like you have an advantage there?

That's a great question. And I think it really comes back to this idea of being built in versus built on to the product in that expense of that design is that you can go into any context and inside that context, you can talk with AI about that particular thing. That is kind of a nuanced point. But Imagine, for example, you're texting with an AI in a general context and you want to change yesterday's expense. You want to basically categorize it or you want to highlight that actually that was an accident. They didn't mean to submit that, whatever it might be. Referencing that outside of the context is actually quite hard. You have to remember the merchant to date, the amount or some key indication of how to do it. And it's a really impractical thing that's going to drive you back to the UI.

Now if you're talking to your assistant, you would just say, hey, that thing that I did yesterday or whatever it might be, and you give a kind of a relative reference, and it would be able to figure it out based upon the contextual clues of the conversation. And so I think that our UI is about trying to infuse the AI throughout the entire product such that you can use it in whatever context you're already in. You don't have to leave your context to use the AI. It's already there.

This makes a very different UI design. You can see it's a very chat-centric design. In many ways, it looks like a kind of ChatGPT interface. I mean I think that it's hard to argue your business is an AI-first product if it looks like Concur. I think that it has to look a lot more like ChatGPT to really credibly say that this is an AI-based thing. It's kind of like what makes an AI intelligent isn't that it just has a bunch of kind of like AI branding on a bunch of algorithms. I think you need to be able to talk to it. You have to be able to ask questions, whatever you want.

You have to explain why it did what it did, and it has to be able to learn from mistakes. I think that the idea that you can have automation in place and that you can't talk to it and figure it out, it doesn't seem very smart. Like let's say, you had -- you hired some sort of an accountant and they said that they approved a report, and you asked them, why did you approve the report? And it's like, I don't know, you wouldn't be like this is a genius. You'd be like this is pretty stupid. I think a lot of sort of algorithmic automation is very powerful, but it's not intelligent in an AI sense. I think intelligence is about getting into a place where you can ask questions, get answers and make changes all through natural language, and I think our design is really optimized for that.

I also think it's important that you're unlocking a new use case. Making charts with AI is not interesting, but that's a very common use case. People have been making charts for a long time and doesn't require AI. That's not a good use of AI. So I think the fact that we're able to do new things, new functionality, offer new value to the user because we're using AI is what sets us apart versus replacing code with AI that the customer doesn't care about that.

Yes, yes, I get that.

Super interesting. I appreciate the detailed answer there. Maybe something more tactical. The government shutdowns in the news, it seems like maybe there might be some impact on travel, I can appreciate that probably if there is any impact to you guys, it would basically be a timing risk. But just any thoughts there from shutdowns in the past or just general scenario analysis you guys maybe have thought through there?

So I think it's -- I guess it depends on -- to the extent it impacts travelers, right? If you're stuck somewhere, you're probably going to actually end up spending more because you have extra hotel nights because you're stuck in New York or something. But in terms of -- is it going to keep people from using Expensify Travel less or something because they're worried of being stuck. I think that's probably a realistic risk. It depends on whether people are going to change their travel plans or just risk it basically, I think.

Yes, I don't think uncertainty is good for anyone's business.

Yes.

Great. Let's see. JMP, I believe Aaron, you're on the line.

I want to dig in on migrations from Expensify Classic to New Expensify, including what percentage of revenue today is on New Expensify after migrating your Collect customers and the time frame over which you expect to get your Control customers that I think are a substantial majority of your revenue on New Expensify.

That's a good question. I don't think we know the -- it's less than 50% of revenue. So we're not over the 50% hump in terms of revenue yet, but that's the huge priority right now is moving people over.

Yes. I mean we're -- as I mentioned earlier, we're aiming to have New Expensify match Classic from a functionality perspective by end of the year. And I think we're very good on that target. Now the real question is how fast can we migrate everyone over. We control the time line here. There's no sense migrating them over faster than they're comfortable with. And so we're going at the fastest rate that they're comfortable with. I think we're really hoping to have a significant progress on that, if not completion or near completion by the end of the year, but I don't think we can control -- we don't know exactly yet because we don't know what we don't know.

Yes. I think it's -- we're also listening to the feedback of customers nudged and iterating very quickly because it's people who are new to Expensify and they come in, they love it, right, because they -- it's all they know, it works great. It's very cool. Someone switching from who's used Classic for maybe 5 years, 10 years to New, it's -- that's a different audience, and they have a different reaction. It's not negative, but they have a different set of feedback than what we've gotten just from new customers coming in.

So we've been a little slow moving people over and really focusing on those user sessions and getting feedback and making small changes quickly and iterating. And I think it's a flywheel where it goes faster and faster. But the existing customers are an interesting source of feedback compared to net new because they say different things. So we're just working through that.

Actually, it's a great point. The bottom of the slide that talks about the major goal we had was to make sure every new customer conversation started on New Expensify. And so that has been the priority. That's done. And so now the priority is getting existing customers over.

That makes sense. And then the follow-up here, are you seeing any incremental monetization from the customers that have migrated to New Expensify? Or is that more TBD? And I assume the more relevant piece of this question at this time is what type of internal cost savings do you anticipate from the Concierge agent once you get everyone migrated over to New Expensify?

That's a great question. So the support cost should be definitely less when we get everyone over because New Expensify handles everything better than Classic. A lot of the problems -- not problems. But there are some complaints with Classic that we have solved with New Expensify. So in general, it should be less of a support burden. Also, just the fact of maintaining 2 platforms at once is expensive and like a split brain problem. So it will be -- we're really looking forward to solving that.

In terms of increased monetization, I think it's much easier to issue new cards, manage everything, get into travel. There's a lot of travel functionality that only exists on New Expensify. So using Expensify Travel with New Expensify is a better experience than Classic. So I do think that it's a net positive. Everyone that we move over is a net positive on the business. So that's why it's a huge focus for us right now.

All right. We were double booked with some of our other analysts, so we will talk to them offline. That's everybody for now.

Great. All right. Thank you all, and we'll see you next quarter.

Thanks, everyone.

Hello, everybody. Welcome to Day 1 of the Citi Global TMT Conference. I'm Steve Enders, part of the software team here. With us for the first session, we have Expensify. Anu, I want to thank you so much for being here.

Thank you. You guys started earlier.

Yes, a little bit early here.

Maybe just to get started, for those who might be new to the story, can you just talk a little bit about Expensify, introduce the company and tell us about your background in time there?

Certainly. So Expensify is an expense management platform. Let's restart. Expensify is an expense management platform. We have corporate cards, travel and, of course, the core product is expense. And we primarily sell to businesses, but we have a range of customers, everyone from individuals looking to just manage their own finances to sole proprietors to small companies all the way to really large Fortune 50 sized companies.

It was actually started on this -- I want to say now may not sound as revolutionary but at the time was, that delivering a good product experience to employees is about as important, if not more, than delivering good product experience to the administrators of expense policies.

No one really cared about the employees or the experience, but we did. So we were the first to have a mobile app that had OCR capabilities that allowed employees on travel on the go, the scanner receipt, never have to think about it again and built-in automation that factored in their policy settings and helped them do their expenses without spending their Friday evenings wrestling with paper receipts in Excel.

Fast forward to the AI era, we're kind of doing the same thing, where we built in an agentic layer on the app. We have brought chat into the app, which is front and center. And the point of doing that is really to bring the conversations that happen around expenses to one place, contextualize it and help admins mine it for intelligence so they can improve their policies and cut down on the time that it takes them to close their books.

That's a great intro for Expensify. Maybe just talk about -- I think there's been a lot of changes with the Expensify for the past few years. But yes, maybe just kind of walk us through kind of the journey of being a public company and kind of where things are today and level set there a little bit?

Yes. And you'd asked about my background with the company as well. So it's a good segue. So I started at the company maybe to the day 10 years ago. And I built our operations team from scratch. I built the card product. So I've done a lot in terms of ops, product development. Now I'm primarily working on the sales and marketing side, leading those things. .

And when we went public, we were one of the few companies that only -- we didn't raise much primary, we didn't go public because we needed capital per se, we wanted to create liquidity for our investors and our employees primarily.

We were also one of the few companies that was cash positive, remains cash positive. And this -- the changes that being public brought -- brings about, generally speaking, is more compliance, more processes. But we, as a company, always operated very process driven. We are not really people heavy. We are process heavy, I'd like to say, in a good way. So it didn't really change all that much in terms of how we operate it.

Of course, there's a lot more in terms of storytelling and ups and downs with performance that you need to smooth out, for lack of a better word, for investors and the Street, and we are doing that, and we've gotten a lot of experience doing that because it's been 4 years since we went public. It's been a roller coaster, but only good times to come.

Sure. No, that's great, too. It's good to hear. I want to touch on the sales and marketing a little bit. But I guess before we get into it, let's just talk about some of the newer kind of products that you've been introducing. I think over the past year, there's been -- it seems like a lot more, I guess, forward innovation that's come out.

So can you just walk us through maybe what you've been releasing, what you've been working on and how you're thinking about the opportunity for travel and the new Expensify platform in cards and just what all that looks like?

Yes, for sure. So the reason we set out on building NewDot, which is basically our new and improved version of expense management chat and travel product, is because we kind of saw the need for a more mobile-focused, more real-time enabled, more conversational interface. And that was something that we could do much better if we started over with a new product than if we tried to take it on top of the existing product, which was really built for the last generation of Internet SaaS applications, I'd say.

So what is the point of adopting NewDot versus staying on the legacy application? You have a very tightly integrated web and mobile product that performs much better no matter what your bandwidth, allows you to do things off-line and catches back up when it comes online. So a much better app experience itself.

Then there's better functionality, which is a much more powerful search, a lot of admin features around managing data at scale that large companies and mid-market companies have long been asking for integrated travel. So there's upgrades, but also just the basic functions of the app itself are that much better. So there's many reasons to adopt it.

And then, of course, there's an agentic layer built on top of all of it, which like I was talking about earlier, is constantly listening in a good way. Concierge, which is supercharged with agentic AI now, is also always listening to your conversation in order to intervene and help smooth the way where it makes sense. That's a much more real-time enabled application in every sense of the word.

And all of the unstructured data in the structured data's context, because unstructured data is the conversation, the structured data is the expense data, the combination of both of it using AI leads to a lot of insights for companies that helps them improve their policies, processes, identify who is most compliant, who is not compliant and how to make their entire expense process smoother. So that's really the vision for the product.

Okay. I guess when you roll out this new -- the new chat forward solution. I understand that there's the agentic capabilities in there as well, which seems pretty interesting and pretty incredible to look at. But when you think about the business or what that enables for customers, how do you kind of envision what that looks like? Or what's maybe been the feedback from customers so far?

Yes. We are always -- and this is something we -- our goal has always been to clear our customers' path to greatness, we like to say. And it sounds a little bit big, but truly, that's the goal. Nobody really wants to spend their time doing expenses.

Everybody has really got other more exciting things to do. We'll have more exciting things to do if they have the time. So that's really the goal of the product is to cut down on the amount of time an employee spends doing their expenses, booking travel, cut down on the amount of time accountants, controllers spend closing their books.

We don't -- accountants don't -- accountants, finance teams don't really want to nag their employees to be compliant, to submit on time. Employees don't want to be nagged. We want to make a product that does not require these kinds of annoying behaviors out of any party in the company.

So that's really -- that continues to be the vision. There's just more and more tech these days that can help you, a SaaS product, accomplish that goal, and we are leaning more and more into that.

Okay. That's great to hear. Maybe shifting gears a little bit. I do want to touch on the go-to-market side of it since we have you here. But I guess, it seems like there's been maybe a bit of an evolution in terms of the go-to market the past few years. Maybe you can just kind of talk about what you have done, what you've tried. Talk about the F1 movie as well and put that in there. But yes, maybe we can start there, and we'll dig in.

We have both a really good and a really challenging problem. The good part of it is, we've invested a lot in brand marketing, and F1 is like the crowning glory of that. Why brand marketing? Because it is kind of a wide suite, right? Like you communicate that you exist, your value proposition is people get curious, they find -- look for who you are. They may not be at the stage where they're making a buying decision today, but you keep on reiterating your presence and your leadership in the market, and when they are, they'll think of you.

So that's -- strategy has generally worked. How do we know it's worked? We have probably the most robust inbound pipeline. We've invested in outbound before. I know we've talked about a period of time that we used SDRs to do a lot of outbound. But the ROI from any kind of outbound, paid ads, none of it has really touched the volume of inbound that brand marketing has naturally pushed towards us.

So we know that brand marketing works so we keep leaning back into it. But the challenging part of the problem is this, like I was saying in the very beginning, there's a diverse range of customers. And each customer, given their size and their particular problem, has a very different expectation of what the app should do for them. And you have, I think, some studies said that you have like not even 10 seconds of a window when someone comes and looks at your app and is trying to assess if it will do what they needed to do for them.

So our challenging problem is really making the onboarding experience so fine-tuned that we can qualify the customer and then surface the exact onboarding content they need. So even if they don't finish onboarding, which almost nobody does in one session, that we've convinced them that the product is for them so they return. And so that's really been the focus of all of our go-to-market efforts.

We've become much more than before, data-driven, product testing-driven, and keep trying to fine tune it. And there's really no -- when I started doing go-to-market as my area of focus, honestly, if you'd asked me, I would have rattled off a few things, the silver bullets that I think are such low-hanging fruit, like we're going to just do those things and it's going to dramatically shift. But I've learned that it's really a slog. You do 100 things, and you do the 100 things really well and it tips. So that's our discipline now.

Okay. I guess maybe where are we in that fine-tuning? What have you found is working? And how do you think about what that means moving forward for some of the inbound? How do you drive that conversion?

Yes. honestly, a lot of it is much, much, much better today versus even like 3 years ago in the sense that we have a very strong degree of clarity on who the customer is and what problem they're trying to solve. We've become very good at servicing them the right content. We are seeing a lot of that stickiness as a result. They keep coming back.

Where the challenge really lies is a large amount of revenue is driven by a slightly larger customer, right? Like you have a huge number of small businesses. And those are really important because that's your word-of-mouth engine, that's where you get your revenue growth from. And then you have those small business, the upper end of the small business, middle market customer where you get -- like once you onboard one of them, you immediately get a revenue bump, and they're stickier because they're not changing processes all the time.

Now the market is kind of stiff in terms of competition in that segment. And everyone is competing on price, and it's really a race to the bottom. And although that has changed a bit, most of our competitors used to be completely free 3 years ago, but they are not so much anymore. We hear rumblings about some of them being, in fact, almost expensive when they bundle travel card and expenses together, which is all great windows of opportunity for us.

But that's the challenge in that segment of the market. And you need supremacy in both really to win because one is your word of mouth engine, it's a growth engine. The other is an immediate revenue boost. Long term, maybe you can do it with just small businesses, but that's the short-term stickiness in revenue growth that I think the market is seeing.

Okay. And given those kind of dynamics and what you're seeing out there competitively, does that maybe change how you think about which areas to target? Or does it change how you think about where you put the dollars and the strategy and put that to work to target that?

Now, more than ever, I think it reinforces what has always been our strategy, which is focus on not just the mid-market and enterprise customers, definitely deliver a product that mid-market and enterprise customers can use to their satisfaction, but a lot of our acquisition efforts were always focused sort of downstream, if you will.

And now more than ever, I think that strategy is reinforced because here is a hugely untapped market. No one is really going after them. But it's difficult to acquire scale. It's difficult to acquire using just a sales strategy with people because the unit economics are not there. And those customers don't want to be sold to like that. So really the trick is in figuring out and continuing to polish, like I said, the hundred things that are going to make that self-onboarding, support-based onboarding, lower ticket, lower touch onboarding more efficient. And we stay focused on that. We've always really prioritized that, but now more than ever, I think the strategy is reinforced.

Got it. I guess with that kind of frame of view, I think we hear a lot from other companies utilizing AI and agentic capabilities to help us support, helps me with onboarding. Just maybe how are you leveraging agentic AI within the product and also internally as an organization?

Yes, we'll start with go-to-market because we're just talking about it. We use it extensively and the way in which we use it is really exactly as I was previously describing.

A customer comes in, they tell us a little bit about their size, their use case. Then they explore the product, which is really what they want to do. They don't want to talk to anybody even if we're willing to spend that kind of resources in getting a lower ticket customer onboarded, which we have tried in the past, but they don't really want to talk, they want to explore on their own.

So what we've done is -- we send every one of the signals that we get from a new lead exploring the product to the agentic layer. And then we have smart messaging capabilities built into it. Because if you sort of looked at the QBO integration and then you went off to do something else, if you got an e-mail or a chat about, okay, here's how you set that up. Here are the perks. It kind of brings you back to something that piqued your interest. It's as simple as that. So that's just one example.

We also used AI extensively. Some of these leads are a little bit on the bigger end of the small business spectrum. They talk to a sales agent. And it is important information that we could mine to know how to sell better to that segment. Maybe it's industry-specific, maybe it's size-specific.

And before, a lot of this was a sales manager to a salesperson, but nothing really existed to aggregate those kinds of intel to then make training across the board better, to make sales scripts across the board better. So we're doing a lot of that as well. So that's the go-to-market side.

Again, on the product side, of course, we're doing a lot of testing, which is really how we're doing product marketing better. And then across our operations team, support teams, Concierge is now powered by a much better agentic AI algorithms.

We have an agentic AI learning or help documentation and will give you the perfect answer in less than 5 seconds, and that's 24/7, and that's huge in terms of support. A lot of the tasks that used to be somewhat onerous on the ops team has been more or less automated except for the ones that require some sort of human judgment. So it just frees up people to do more and also gives us the ability to maintain our leanness in terms of human resources.

Sure. I do want to go into the product side a little bit more. But I guess, what kind of efficiencies like ROI have you seen internally from doing that? And to your point, I think Expensify has a pretty unique maybe people model is the way to put it. So just how do you kind of think about what that means for further head count or how much more powerful and productive you can make the current employee base?

Yes. The reason we were able to always be so lean is because we always started all problems as how can we solve it with tech before we thought about how can we solve it with people. So we always leaned more into what can we automate, we should automate that and not have people doing it. And now that question of what can we automate is just that much more powerful to answer yes to because there's just more resources given how good AI is and how much better it keeps getting.

So you've seen the cash flow forecasts that we have consistently revised up. So we've been able to sort of maintain our -- any human cost at a SaaS company is the biggest expense. So we've been able to use the fact that it's not just saving money, but it also is much more efficient. So we've been using that efficiency, which is really a double-edged sword to also make our financials that much more performant.

Okay. That makes sense. Let's talk a little bit about the product side. With everything you've kind of come out with, New Expensify I think looks really interesting, just I think you touched on a little bit around how you're actually baking in agentic capabilities into that experience.

But how do you kind of see that evolving further from here? What else can generative AI do for Expensify to help make the product that much more powerful?

We -- I think from a product perspective, you see, we've only just scratched the surface. Now a lot of users come in and they scan their receipt. And what we're seeing is there is already a lot of conversation now happening on new product within the context of an expense. And often what we see is somebody will ask, "Oh, I took this trip. Can I expense business class?" or "I don't have the receipt, is that okay?" What we want to be able to do is teach the policy, and by that, I mean the expense policy of a company to the agentic AI layer and have Concierge answer them. So it frees up admins from having to repeatedly answer the same questions over and over again because this agent works for them basically.

It also surfaces for them aberrations in terms of expense behavior that it thinks they need to maybe take another look at, powering for search into natural language model because right now, the way we all use powerful search capabilities is a bunch of different filters and tools. And some people will use it like that for a very long time, which is fine. We have a beautiful UX for them.

But we are going to make it also possible for you to ask it like you'd ask another human and then it will mine the data for you and give you insight. So a lot of that sort of improvement is still in the pipeline, not yet live. So we're excited for that.

Okay. That's interesting. I guess when you think about the, I guess, go-forward Expensify and the product side, just I guess what else could the platform look like? What new products could you potentially roll out? And if you think about agentic in particular, like are there other avenues of monetization that you could start to lean into moving forward?

For sure. The first one we did was cards, right, like the first transactional revenue pipeline. Then we've now launched travel. They're both -- I mean, the card has really propped up the financials in a very healthy way for a few quarters. So it's already the proof is in the pudding. We have invoicing and bill pay, but we've got to think a little more in terms of is that initially, the thought was that it's just going to be a word-of-mouth engine because when you invoice , when you pay bills, you're always introducing different companies to Expensify. So that's, in and of itself, the way it pays.

But maybe there is room there to like look at transactional revenue opportunities as well. We've always talked about wanting to do payroll, which is probably not this year, but maybe late next year, and that brings with it its own revenue stream.

Ultimately, the idea is really to be like an Amazon Prime. Like you want to have one subscription, you don't want to think about 50 different things in your bill. Instead, you pay a price, and that price is a rich value proposition to the company, but also a rich value proposition to you because you've pulled all of your back-office financial operations into one product. And especially for the smaller end of the spectrum, ideally, it's just chat-based like you have this agent in your pocket that can really help you do everything and you never need to interact with the UX if you don't want to. That's really the goal.

Okay. I do want to touch on travel. It seems like the initial release, the initial launch of that has been pretty encouraging and seeing pretty good demand there. Can you just talk about what you've seen so far from that product release?

Yes, it's been -- I mean the month-over-month growth is incredible. There's a huge waitlist. And the -- we could go a lot faster. But typically with products like card and travel, you also have to be really careful about frauds and doing things right is sort of so much more important than just doing it really fast.

So we are just taking it slow in terms of releasing the dam, I guess. But it's great that there is a huge pent-up demand, that there is a huge waitlist that we know how to onboard those customers on to travel better and better every day so we can do it economically. So all very encouraging signs.

Okay. So I guess as you think about that future kind of rollout, what does maybe the pace of that look like? There are certain kind of like checkpoints you need to see before you feel comfortable kind of releasing it out to more of the way it lashes. How do you think about that?

It's -- we basically created an entire team that is focused on cross-selling travel. So it's -- we're certainly not -- we were pacing it before, but it's all cylinders -- firing, I forgot the expression, us firing on all cylinders now. And I think by the end of the year, we should be able to have soaked up all the demand.

And then the question is really like how do we sell it all together immediately because what happens generally, someone adopts core expense, they take 6 months, they may consider the card, then they take another -- we want to be able to sell it as a package and communicate the value and power of the product immediately. So that's maybe something we need to think more about.

Okay. I do want to touch on cross-sell and what that maybe looks like because you do have a pretty big portfolio of solutions at this point. So is there -- how do you think about building out a dedicated team for that? How do you think about how you can lean into that motion in particular to sell card and sell travel and all that moving?

A lot of moving parts. So I can't tell you exactly which way we'll end up going, but it's also kind of tactical. What we are doing right now is leaning hard into our account managers. They are the eyes and ears of the company in terms of existing customers. They know what their customers are doing. They know their pain points.

So they'd be the right person to pitch them these solutions that could improve their experience with Expensify. So that's kind of where we're starting. A lot of them are -- and we are running things like contests to sort of get like the creative juices flowing in terms of how we could be doing it better because those are learnings that we could incorporate.

Down the line, if the demand keeps growing, which is such a great problem, we might use some of our sales people to do the actual selling. So the account managers might create the demand for it and then hand off to sales to sell. And then when it is sold, it will go back to account managers to maintain. We might explore that, whichever works better for conversion. We don't have a perspective on one being better than the other per se.

Okay. I do want to touch on just maybe the macro and kind of what you're seeing out there in the last few minutes here. Just what have you maybe seen from customers? Like how are they thinking about their own spend? How are you seeing kind of the general demand and adoption of kind of new software at this point?

Yes. I think the biggest shift in our growth drivers, if you will, and we've talked about this a few times, has been the amount of expansion and usage among existing customers. So if you take 2018, 2019, so pre-COVID, almost all of the growth really came from that expansion and new customers were always sort of compared to that a drop in the bucket.

And churn has been very -- for us, churn has been very steady, maybe spiked a little bit during COVID. And then 2021, when we had the price change, still sort of like percolating, but it's smoothed out. By smoothed out, I mean, it's sort of consistent for the business over the years. But now we're seeing a shift in terms of that expansion among existing customers is not as rich as it used to be.

And I think there are several reasons, some of it we thought was macro with like a lot of companies letting a lot of their employees go. Some of it might be here to stay because with AI, more and more companies are becoming leaner. So maybe it's not going to be the biggest driver anymore, and that's a shift in macro technically. New customer growth has been healthy then, has been healthy. Briefly during COVID again, it wasn't, it was a little stalled out, but it's healthy again.

So I think I'm not sure what point of view to really have and maybe jury is out and whether SaaS is dead, et cetera. But we are not seeing that to be true based on just incoming leads, still very healthy. And ultimately, I think there's always 2 types of customers, right, the ones that want to use the product and the UX, and they'd like to do everything themselves even when you have tool tips and navigational help and videos, and they just ignore all of it, like I watch a lot of users, that's actually interesting.

For a new customer, maybe that video might -- they just want to explore on their own, do things on their own. And there are others that seek out support, seek out AI, seek out ways to do things without having to interact with the product.

And I think what we want to do is build a product that serves the bulk because we want them all. And that's really -- has been the strategy, continues to be the strategy. The tactics change, but it's really still the same.

Okay. Maybe in the last 1.5 minutes here or last couple of minutes here, we can talk about just the longer-term vision for Expensify. And let's say, we're in 5 years from now, 2030 Citi Conference, what would we be talking about then? What would be success for Expensify? How do you kind of target the company strategically to get there?

Well, sure. We would have migrated and unified the products. We hope to have a large piece of the small business market off of Excel, off of paper receipts onto our product, using a lot of the agentic capabilities to make their lives simpler because the easier use cases can do that the best.

We hope to maintain, if not improve, our unit economics, keep ourselves lean, really lean into intelligent automation that makes the company efficient but delivers the best user experience to our customers. And ultimately, we want to have a super app. We want our customers to use our product and no other because it solves all their needs as it relates to finance and back-office capabilities. And then I guess we take over the world.

Yes, just a little close up there. You need to make that happen. So awesome. Well, I think we're about out of time. Anu, I want to thank you so much for joining us today and being the first session of the day here. So thank you so much.

Yes. Good luck.

All right. Thank you. Thanks, everybody.