Delta Electronics Aktie

Hello, everyone. Welcome to the first earnings conference of this year. And before we officially start our -- I mean, today's conference, I would like to say Happy New Year to everyone. So now we will have our IR, Rodney, to report the financial numbers for the -- for Q4 and 2025.

So as usual, we have announced our financial numbers yesterday, and we also uploaded our financial reports -- financial report yesterday. So if you need more details, you can actually find the financial report on our website.

So our Q4 revenue reached TWD 161.6 billion, marking a record high for a single quarter. This represents a 42% year-over-year growth and an 8% sequential increase, mainly driven by strong data center demand.

So this sequential increase was actually above normal seasonality. But just because in terms of the contributions from the data center business has been increasing, I mean, for the last couple of quarters. So the normal seasonality has become a little bit different, I mean, from -- it was -- from it was before.

So in terms of the GP margin, gross profit in Q4 was TWD 55.9 billion, up 59% year-over-year and 7% quarter-over-quarter, marking a new all-time high. GP margin in Q4 was 34.6% versus 30.8% a year ago and 34.9% in Q3. Year-over-year, R&D and SG&A expenses increased 17% and 24%, respectively, leading OpEx up 21%, with profit surging 147%.

Sequentially, OpEx rose 7%, reflecting 2% and 11% increases in R&D and SG&A expenses, respectively, with profit growing 6%. As a percentage of sales, R&D expenses declined to 8.1% this quarter compared with 9.8% a year ago and 8.5% last quarter. SG&A expenses were 10.2% versus 11.6% a year ago and 9.9% in the previous quarter.

So benefiting from improved economies of scale, OpEx ratio in Q4 dropped to 18.3% from 21.4% a year ago and 18.4% last quarter. Operating profit was up 147% year-over-year and 6% sequentially, bringing our Q4 operating margin to 16.3% compared with 9.4% a year ago and 16.5% in Q3.

So in terms of the segmentation performance, Infrastructure delivered the strongest growth with revenues up 94% year-over-year and 12% quarter-over-quarter. Power Electronics also posted solid growth, while Automation recorded modest but improving momentum. In contrast, mobility remained under pressure with sales down 31% year-on-year and 15% quarter-over-quarter.

From a profitability standpoint, Infrastructure delivered the strongest performance with profit up 287% year-over-year and 25% quarter-over-quarter. Power Electronics also posted solid growth, rising 93% year-over-year and 1% quarter-over-quarter.

In contrast, mobility and Automation saw year-over-year profit declines of 27% and 83%, respectively. Quarter-over-quarter, mobility recorded a profit drop, while Automation swung to a profit. So now operating income was negative TWD 800 million in Q4 compared with negative TWD 900 million a year ago and positive TWD 2.2 billion in Q3. The negative income in Q4 was mainly due to the write-offs after a careful review of the assets at year-end. So in Q4, we had TWD 25.6 billion profit before tax. And then our Q4 EBITDA was TWD 32.7 billion, up 92% year-over-year and down 7% quarter-over-quarter.

Q4 tax expense was about TWD 6 billion. The effective tax rate was 23.4% and net profit after tax was about TWD 17.3 billion. So the Q4 EPS was TWD 6.67. So now let's have a look at the full year cumulative results. So the revenue was TWD 554.9 billion in 2025, up 32% year-over-year. Gross margin was up 9 -- sorry, 39% year-over-year with a GP margin of 34.3% versus 32.4% a year ago.

So on a year-over-year basis, R&D expenses, I mean, increased 17%. SG&A rose 21% and OpEx grew 19%. Operating profit increased 76% year-over-year. By segment, Infrastructure delivered the strongest performance with sales up 82% year-over-year and profit surging 413%. Power Electronics also posted solid growth with sales up 25% and profit up 37% year-over-year.

Automation saw modest revenue growth, while profit declined 39%. Mobility remained under pressure, while -- with sales down 16% year-over-year and profit turned to a loss.

So in 2025, we had about TWD 3.9 billion, I mean, nonoperating profit. In total, we had TWD 87.9 billion pretax income and EBITDA was TWD 117.9 billion. So tax expense was about TWD 19.9 billion, representing an effective tax rate of 22.7%. As a result, net profit after tax was TWD 60.1 billion and translating this number into EPS.

EPS was TWD 23.14. And yesterday, I mean, we -- during the Board meeting, we actually proposed a cash dividend for this year, which was TWD 11.6 per share. So now we are open to the Q&A session.

So I have 2 questions. So for the first question, I would like to know, would you have any guidance on the OpEx increase of this year? And then also, do you have any guidance for the CapEx for this year as well?

So for the OpEx increase, this year, I think the OpEx will continue to increase. So first of all, because we continue to have a lot of innovations and R&D need to be invested because we have, I mean, many new -- sorry, we have many new products. So we continue to need to invest a lot into the R&D and innovations of our products.

And secondly, because we -- okay. So for -- sorry, for the expenses, because we continue to -- we actually are expanding our service team in other regions because we are -- our solution business -- our solutions businesses have been increasing, I mean, within the company. So we need to have more sales force and more FAEs and so on and so forth to serve our clients in different regions.

So that is also part of the reasons we actually expect an increase, I mean, of the OpEx this year. And speaking of the -- okay. Speaking of the CapEx, I think the CapEx this year is probably going to be slightly higher than the CapEx of 2025.

Okay. So the next question is related to the GP margin in Q4. So could you please give us more, I mean, colors on your GP margin in Q4?

So because the GP margin in Q4 was actually softer compared to the third quarter. So my answer to that question is, I think because our GP margin is very much subject to the overall mix -- product mix of the companies. So there are actually -- because we have, I mean, very diversified and many different product lines. So the GP margin is always going to be a little bit lumpy.

But I think our GP margin currently, as I always said, I think it's actually quite healthy. I mean, it's at a quite healthy level, but we just can't really guarantee that we will always continue to, I mean, to achieve, I mean, the new record high of GP margin.

So I think that is actually our expectation -- a healthy expectation for the GP margin.

So yesterday, according to the financial report, I actually noticed that you actually mentioned -- I mean you actually mentioned asset, the write-offs of some of your assets on your financial reports. So can I say -- is this kind of write-offs is actually one-off or we will continue to see this kind of write-offs going forward.

So I think that is actually kind of a regular practice at the year-end of every year, I can't really say that we will -- I mean, actually expect to see such I mean, write-offs every year. But we always take this cautious and conservative approach to review our assets at year-end. So that is basically like that.

So next question, what percentage of total revenue does liquid cooling represent currently? And what level could it reach in 2026?

So in 2025, I think liquid cooling-related revenue accounts for approximately 9% of our total revenue with the majority coming from system-level solutions. But we are not in a position to provide guidance for 2026. Particularly, in terms of mix, given the diversified nature of our business and multiple variables involved.

That said, with the continued expansion of AI data centers, I think our AI-related businesses, including the liquid cooling business and our power-related businesses or the liquid cooling market is actually experiencing a strong growth momentum. And so we see significant opportunities ahead.

So I think in terms of the AI investment, actually, the main demand driver for the AI deployment is actually still mainly coming from the major hyperscalers, especially in the U.S. So if you look at the numbers and the investment, I mean, the CapEx numbers they have announced. So for this year, supposedly, their investment -- the absolute number of their investments are actually not less than the previous year.

So of course, the CapEx investment is one thing, but there are always some other bottlenecks or uncertainties. For example, the lack of labors and the lack of the materials. So we can be totally sure about the pace of the deployment of their investments. But still, given that -- given the commitment from those major CSPs, the commitment into the AI investment from those major CSPs, so we remain actually cautious optimistic about the demand for this year. So although there might be some uncertainties and/or maybe just some ups and downs in this long-term AI cycle, but for the long run, we do believe that it is just a very early stage of this -- the new era of AI. So we remain pretty optimistic for the long-term opportunity.

So the next question is related to the potential bottleneck in terms of the power outage in the U.S. So I know that -- actually, Delta has always been very ambitious in terms of your opportunities in the energy infrastructure business. So can you tell us more about your plans or your opportunities in this space?

So I think that is actually a universal issue in many different countries and for many different types of our customers. We do have this ambition to address this issue, but -- and actually, the architecture change in the -- the power architecture change in the data center is also somewhat related to this power efficiency issue. So we will continue to work on this and let's see then what we can achieve.

So in terms of the outlook for this year, can you please give us some updates or just more colors for this -- for main segments?

So I think as we -- as our Chairman just mentioned, this year, I think the main growth driver will continue to be the AI data centers. So we actually expect to see a pretty healthy or solid growth momentum for our Power Electronics and our Infrastructure business.

And even though -- and I'm speaking of the Mobility business, even though I think the market has been actually experiencing a pretty struggling and pretty challenging period. But still, in the long run, we still believe this -- the EV, it's actually one of the key to address the carbon emission issues. So we will continue to stay in this market. But just in terms of the clientele, I think we -- actually, as everybody knows that in terms of the customers, we actually had or have -- still have like much more customers. There are the European OEMs or the American OEMs.

But as everybody knows that the Chinese OEMs they actually have been really, really dominant in the global market. So we will continue to try to approach the Chinese OEMs. And hopefully, our exposure to the Chinese OEM customers can continue to increase going forward.

And then speaking of the Automation business, as we just reported last year, we actually had a very modest growth for Automation segment. But still, we can really say that -- I can really say that we have already seen very clear signs of recovery in the China market. So the only thing I can say is the market is probably, has already been bottoming out a little bit, but still not a very strong signs of recovery yet. So hopefully, of course, we do hope to see the growth for this year can accelerate. But that is something actually out of our control.

So the first question is actually related to the capacity. So in terms of the capacity issue, I think we still have actually pretty tight capacity in order to fulfill the customers' demand. So last year, actually at the year-end of last year, we had 3 new factories in Thailand, Three of our new factories in Thailand have been going online at the year-end of last year. And then we continue to have some new capacity plans for other regions.

So not just -- I mean, not just Thailand. Actually, this year, we even visited Mexico. But still, we are still in the process of evaluating whether the environment, the overall environment in Mexico is suitable for us to further expand our capacity in the America regions.

So the next question is related to what is the time line and shipment scale for power racks? Could this become the next growth driver?

So actually assuming no major disruptions, we expect to see initial shipments of power racks this year. However, the actual contribution will depend on customer demand and broader supply chain coordination. So visibility remains limited. Conceptually, power racks integrate additional components such as relays, breakers, cabling, PDU, ADS, BBU, PCS and even liquid cooling systems, which meaningfully expand the addressable revenue opportunity for us.

So I want to circle back a little bit to the -- to your opportunities in the energy infrastructure market. So I know that you have this hydrogen energy business, which aims to address this power insufficiency issue. So do you have any other like plans? Or do you have any other new product lines, which might actually help with this power insufficiency issue in the background of increasing power usage due to the AI deployment.

So I think we just actually briefly mentioned that the new architecture in the data center, which is actually refers to this 800-volt DC is actually part of the solutions to solve this energy issue. Because in terms of this new power architecture, actually, the AI data centers all have been -- they are all using a lot of energy and electricity. So something that we can actually do to help with the situation or issue is we help our customers to try to save as much as energy as possible by saving or reducing the energy loss during this energy conversion process. So that is actually one way that we help with this energy or electricity insufficiency issue.

And the other one is actually the one you just mentioned, which is related to our hydrogen energy business. So as we previously explained in our earnings conference. This hydrogen energy actually compared to the traditional power -- discrete power generation solutions, actually, in terms of the power conversion efficiency is maybe higher, much higher than the traditional solution. So it can up to maybe 65% conversion efficiency for this hydrogen energy.

But in terms of the contribution or the shipment, I think we are actually expecting to have some very initial shipment at the end of this year. But if we want to see like more -- slightly maybe more meaningful contribution from this hydrogen energy business, we may need to wait until maybe next year or even maybe for the longer run.

So you just mentioned that you already have some clients, they are testing your products. They're testing your fuel cell products currently. So what kind of customers they are. Are they like the CSPs or other types of customers?

For the hydrogen energy fuel cells, actually, the clients currently, they are the utility companies instead of the CSPs. So I think there is still for the CSP clients, penetrating into the CSP clients. I think still, it's still going to take some time to penetrate into the CSP clients.

So the next question is, can you please give us some maybe breakdown or split in terms of your power products for maybe GPU servers or maybe like ASIC servers.

Actually, we don't really have the -- we don't really provide the details for this kind of split. And actually, we provide a lot of different products, including our AC products, AC powers and DC converters for different type of data center clients. So it's actually not that simple to really separate different type of our products for different type of the platforms or for different customers.

Speaking of our DC/DC converter business, we actually do not comment on specific customer programs. However, given the expected meaningful increase in the market demand, we actually remain cautiously optimistic about our overall DC/DC business this year. Generally speaking, the whole industry or the whole architecture is still in the stage of -- is still evolving. So just like many Silicon Valley guys are talking about, maybe we can actually put our -- we actually set up or set up the data centers in the space.

So I think there might be some advantages of, if you try to put the data centers or set up the data centers in the space. But there is still some other problems that you have to solve. For example, in terms of the cooling, how do you plan to cool down the equipment. If you put those equipment or data center equipment in the space. So there are many different conceptional ideas are being raised in this stage, especially, during the innovation of technology.

So the only thing I can say is we actually must continue to innovate in line with market trends and customer needs in order to sustain our competitiveness.

So my next question is actually, can you please give us maybe some rough breakdown or split between your AI servers and your traditional servers.

No, we think that actually it's not easy to separate AI server revenues -- AI server power revenues and traditional server power revenues.

So can you give us maybe some guidance for the Q1 seasonality because traditionally, we all know about the first quarter, historically should be the lowest season for the whole year. But just because, I mean, the product mix, the business mix has been changed over the years -- over the quarters. So can you please maybe just give us some ideas or some clues about the first quarter seasonality. And the second question is related to the high-voltage DC. As I recall that you actually not just have -- you don't just have the 800-volt DC, you also have the plus/minus, 400 volt DC. So can you please tell us the adoption rate by the CSP clients for these 2 different types of high-voltage DC power.

So I think as we -- as Chairman said, different customers actually have different preference for these 2 types of HVDC power. So -- but we do provide both solutions. So it's not a problem for us.

And then speaking of the seasonality because as everybody knows that in the first quarter because there are actually fewer working days in the first quarter because of the Chinese New Year holidays. So theoretically, the second quarter is very likely going to be better than the first quarter given that reason.

And then speaking of the 800 DC and plus/minus 400 volt DC, because in terms of the deployment, in terms of the pace of deployment because they are all based on the needs of our customers, so it's actually hard for us to forecast the pace of their pulling our merchandise. But still, I think, generally speaking, in terms of the sales contributions from this high-voltage DC, I think next year should actually be the main year in terms of we start to see some more meaningful contribution from the power rack business instead of this year.

So my next question is still related to the capacity issue, we just discussed at the beginning of the conference. So because you mentioned that you actually are considering to maybe expand your capacity in Thailand or maybe the U.S. or maybe even Mexico. So if you have any new capacity or new factories in those regions, are they only related to your power products? Or maybe you have plans for both power and liquid or the cooling products as well for those new factories in different regions.

So I think we always plan our capacity. We always plan our capacity based on our long-term plans instead of any short-term needs because it always takes like a few years at the very least, maybe 2 to 3 years to complete the whole construction of new factory. So we can only have some rough estimate. Let's say that we may need -- like we may need more new capacity and then we want those capacity to serve maybe the clients in different regions. So I think -- but there are always some dynamics and always some flexibility in terms of the capacity planning, especially for different type of products.

So we can actually decide which factory for which product later. So we need to just think of think about which region we might want to increase our capacity at this stage. So now we -- I think we can still have like 1 last question before we call it a day.

So the final question, I think, is actually related to whether Delta has any plan on the AI robots.

So I think currently, at this stage, I think we have actually still more industrial robots, which we really have the mass production for these kind of products. But speaking of the AI robot or service robot, we actually just established a robot research center. I think it was last year. So this is actually for the long-term innovation and the long-term plan for this area.

So I think in order to achieve for those so-called service robots to be more reliable and to be more realistic for the actual use, I think it's going to take maybe a few years before that. So I think there are actually some areas or some areas or some problems have to be tackled before we see that really happen. So including the sensor or the sensing technology, including the communication capability and also including the communication between the edge and cloud.

And then also, you need to consider the safety issues if you want to really deploy the service robot in the live environment. So it's not like the factories environment. It's actually much more simple. It's much more simple. So I do believe it's actually going to take some time to achieve that.

So I think, as I said, I think, what we have been seeing now, they are still mainly more for demonstration purpose instead of they can be actually used in the real environment. So that is my perspective.

So okay, thank you for joining our earnings conference today. So I will see you on the next quarter. So thank you.

[Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.]

So welcome to our Q3 analyst meeting. So today, we have so many attendance, so many visitors coming to join our 3Q 2025 Analyst Meeting. So as usual, we will have Rodney to report the financial numbers at the beginning, and then we will have the Q&A session.

So as usual, we are going to review the financial numbers of Q3. Q3 revenues reached TWD 150.3 billion, marking a record high quarterly result. This represents a 34% year-on-year growth and a 21% sequential increase. Driven by strong shipments from server powers and liquid cooling systems, Q3 revenue was above normal seasonality. Gross profit in Q3 was TWD 52.4 billion, up 34% year-over-year and 19% quarter-over-quarter, marking a new all-time high. GP margin for Q3 was 34.9%, slightly down from 35.5% in Q2 and flattish from a year ago.

OpEx in Q3 increased by 21% year-over-year and 9% quarter-over-quarter. With SG&A expenses growing faster than R&D spending, benefited from improved economics of scale, OpEx ratio declined to 18.4% compared to 20.3% a year ago and 20.4% in Q2. R&D expenses as a percentage of revenue stood at 8.5% versus 9.6% a year ago and 9.5% in Q2. SG&A expenses as a percentage of revenues were 9.9% compared to 10.6% a year ago and 10.9% in Q2. Supported by operating leverage. OP margin in Q3 further improved to 16.5%, up from 15.1% in Q2 and 14.6% a year ago, reaching another record high. Operating profit increased by 51% year-over-year and 33% quarter-over-quarter.

Segment-wise, driven by robust data center demand, infrastructure recorded both the strongest year-over-year and quarter-over-quarter revenue growth, followed by Power Electronics. In contrast, Mobility continued to face challenges amid market weakness, while Automation was also affected by broader macro headwinds. From an earnings perspective, all segments except Automation saw varying degrees of sequential improvement. On a year-over-year basis, Infrastructure delivered the strongest profit growth, followed by Power Electronics. On the other hand, Mobility swung to a loss and Automation also came under pressure from the slow economy. So in terms of the non-op, Q3 was TWD 2.2 billion versus TWD 900 million in Q2 and TWD 1.3 billion a year ago.

In Q3, we had TWD 27 billion profit before tax, up 53% year-on-year and 38% quarter-over-quarter. Q3 EBITDA reached 33 -- sorry, TWD 35.4 billion, up 45% year-over-year and 32% quarter-over-quarter, setting another all-time high. So the Q3 tax expense was about TWD 6.1 billion. The effective tax rate in Q3 was 22.5%. Net profit after tax was about TWD 18.6 billion, up 51% year-on-year and 33% Q-on-Q. And Q3 EPS was TWD 7.16, achieving a new historical high.

So now we have a look at accumulated numbers for the first 3 quarters of the year. So the revenue was TWD 393.3 billion in the first 3 quarters, up 28% from a year ago. Gross profit increased by 32% year-over-year with a GP margin of 34.1% compared to 33% in the same period last year. The operating expense in the first 3 quarters was up by 18 -- sorry, 19% year-on-year with SG&A up 20% and R&D up 17%. OpEx ratio dropped to 19.5% from 21% a year ago with the SG&A expense ratio contracting to 10.4% from 11.1% a year ago. And R&D expense ratio decreased to 9.1% from 9.9%. So OP increased by 56% year-on-year and OP margin in the first 3 quarters improved to 14.6% from 20 -- sorry, 12% a year ago.

So for the first 3 quarters, the Infrastructure segment again showed the strongest growth, followed by Power Electronics and a modest 4% increase from Automation. And while the Mobility continued to struggle due to the sluggish demand. And then earnings-wise, both Power Electronics and Infrastructure showed substantial profit improvement while the profits of Automation and Mobility both shank from a year ago.

So for the first 3 quarters, we had about TWD 4.7 billion up slightly higher than a year ago. In terms of the profit before cash, we had TWD 62.2 billion, pre-tax income, up 50% from a year ago. And our EBITDA was TWD 85.2 billion, up 40% from a year ago. The tax expense was around TWD 13.9 billion, representing a 22.4% effective rate and a net profit after tax in the first 3 quarters was TWD 42.8 billion versus TWD 28.1 billion a year ago. So the EPS in the first 3 quarters of the year was TWD 16.47 versus TWD 10.8 a year ago, representing a 53% year-on-year growth.

So first of all, a big congrats on your very strong performance for the third quarter. So my first question is related to your -- capacity planning for your liquid cooling and other data center-related businesses? And then can you also please walk us through the company -- the latest progress in the solid-state transformers. And then also the 800 HVDC. How should we think of the sales -- the contributions in 2027? So can you give us a rough idea?

So in terms of the current capacity -- the capacity is actually pretty tight. It's actually pretty tight. So we are actually building many new factories. So by the end of this year, that we may complete some of these factories. And then we may have 3 new factories in Thailand are likely to be, I mean, complete in terms of the construction by the end of this year.

And then in the meanwhile, we also have the discussions with our customers. So for example, for those non-American market orders, customers -- or most customers, they actually agree to -- agree that their products to be made in China. So that is also a pretty helpful and beneficial in terms of our capacity flexibility. But anyway, in terms of the capacity, we continue to expand the capacity because we are seeing pretty strong demand from our customers.

So in terms of the 800 HVDC, I think it's still going to take some time before it become more meaningful to our revenues.

And then in terms of the dollar amount of the CapEx for this year for the -- actually, for the first 3 quarters, it was around TWD 29.7 billion. And for the whole year, I think it's going to be somewhere around TWD 40 billion. And for the next year, I think, in terms of the dollar amount, should be quite similar to this year. But in terms of the compensation of the CapEx, I think for next year, it's going to be more related to the automation -- the factory automation and equipment procurement and setting.

So the next question is related to the gross margin. Could you please give us more color regarding why the GP margin, I mean, in Q3 was lower than Q2?

I think the main reason -- I mean, it's still -- was still related to the inventory reversal and inventory write-down. So the difference between that. So between Q2 and Q3, I think the difference was around like 0.6 percentage point. But generally speaking, the GP margin is still mostly related to the product mix. Despite that, I mean -- despite the fact that we actually saw a pretty strong growth, I mean increase in our revenues in Q3. But mostly, I mean the revenue was driven by the data center related business. And then for that part of the business, in terms of the GP margin inherently is naturally not higher than the component business. So it's still mostly -- I mean, the GP margin is still mostly related to the product mix.

So my next question is also related to the margins. So first, I mean, first of all, related to the GP margin. As you said, the GP margin was mostly related to the product mix. Given that the AI or AI-related or data center-related businesses actually are becoming more and more meaningful within the portfolio. But still, I mean, we saw a higher GP margin in Q2 compared to Q3. So can you give us more colors? Can you give us more colors regarding the margins? And secondly, how should we think of the OpEx rate going forward?

So first of all, I think I already covered the question before. So because the component -- I mean the strong or the rapid growth in our revenues was mainly driven by infrastructure in Q3. But the solution or the Infrastructure System business in terms of the margins is not necessarily higher or is not going to be higher than the component business -- the margin of component business. So I think that is actually the main reason.

And then speaking of the OpEx ratio. So if we are able to continue to accelerate our revenue growth that is likely or it's possible that we will continue to enjoy some operating leverage. And you see the OpEx ratio continue to decline a little bit.

So the first question is related to the tariffs. So in terms of the tariffs, basically, as we are in the ODM business. So theoretically, the tariffs are all on the customer side. But in reality, how we pay for the tariffs, how we really pay the tariffs -- sorry, how the tariffs are really be paid?

It can be negotiable. So for example, sometimes for some orders or customers, the customers they may pay the tariffs directly by themselves. But sometimes, we may pay the tariffs before -- we may pay the tariffs first. And then our customers will pay us back like maybe 1 or 2 months later. And in terms of the tariffs, I think 95% of our revenues or 95% -- more than 95% of our businesses on this FOB basis, which means that it's our customers to pay the tariffs. So that's my answer related to the tariff question.

So for your second question related to the capacity, when I said we actually had a pretty tight capacity. But still, we have some alternative ways to actually to run up our capacity, for example. Actually, most of the equipment in our factories made in-house by Delta. And then also for most of the manufacturing process are assembling projects -- process. So we actually have some flexibility to switch lines or to actually ramp up the capacity in relatively faster pace.

Actually, in reality, for example, that actually always takes -- at least a few years to construct a new plant. So for example, the plant we have today, which was built or started -- which was built like 2 years ago. And then by then, 2 years ago, the capacity was planned for maybe different business. But over time, the business landscape and demand landscape can change. So that's why we always need to have such a flexibility to -- we always need to have this flexibility to switch the production lines maybe from one product line to another.

So as I said, I mean, in order to fulfill the customers demand. So we actually have the discussions with our customers. So for those, non-American market orders, they actually agreed their products to be made in China because in China, we still have pretty much capacity.

And then in India because of the tariffs. So if we are not -- maybe not able to see the further decline in terms of the tariffs in India. So we may not be able to shift our production there. And then in Taiwan, basically, in Taiwan, I think there is some, I mean, natural ceiling in terms of the capacity because of the electricity in terms of the labor and in terms of the lands. And then also in America, in the U.S., we are building some new factories. And then we may also run some more factories in the U.S. to build up new capacity.

So for the third question, which is related to this year and last year's driver for the company. I think if you haven't to notice recent news in the U.S., actually, a data center, very recently just signed a deal with an operator. And this operator is actually a data center infrastructure construction or -- sorry, a building company, which is -- which actually provides or offers data center infrastructure. And then the deal size was around USD 40 billion.

So of course, I mean, the company -- the operator is a private equity. So we couldn't really see its revenues. But still, it means that if data centers are willing to pay such a high multiple to buy a data center infrastructure company, which means that data centers, the data center companies they are still very highly committed to the AI CapEx investment. So given that all those reasons, we do believe that for at least for this fourth quarter or for net -- for the whole next years I think the momentum should be fine.

And for the fourth quarter and first quarter, I think we are quite optimistic. But still the environment changes always change so fast. So we still need to be cautious and be prepared.

[indiscernible]?

So for next question, which is related to whether we are going to have new capacity in Thailand for your liquid cooling solution products? I think, as I said, actually for the non-U.S. orders or non-U.S. products or solutions, it's not just -- they can actually be produced in China because in terms of the components, especially those mechanical parts, the ecosystem as a supply chain is most comprehensive -- it's most comprehensive in China. So that can also kind of ease the capacity tightness a little bit.

So my next question is related to your DC/DC converter business because earlier, you mentioned that this year, the revenues is likely to drop maybe by 25% because of the platform -- because of the site changes. So how should we think of this business going forward?

Have you seen any -- the big customers, they decided to use the DC/DC modules again for their new generation products. For this year, the new generation products, they are still not using the DC/DC modules. But still, I think for -- not just big customers. Actually, for other customers, we have been seeing increasing penetration, increasing our adoption rates from other customers for our DC/DC converters.

So my last question is related to your ESS, energy storage system; and your BPU business. So I think for the large scale, energy storage system, in terms of the application, it's not just for the data centers. But indeed, the -- we have been seeing increasing demand for this energy storage systems. And then in terms of the energy storage systems, there are actually some critical components and critical functions within the energy storage system, including the BMS system and battery management. So because we actually don't make the battery cells, so we will -- we need to carefully select the competitive suppliers.

Speaking of -- for the energy storage, as I said, they are used in many different -- a wide range of different applications. But in terms of SST because I think is still relatively or planting new technology and idea to the customers. So it still takes time to see the penetration rate to run up.

Okay. So for your first question, which is related to the revenue contribution in terms of our server powers and our cooling solutions. So in Q3, our server powers was around like -- sorry, 23% of our total revenues, while the cooling solutions was around 11% of our total revenues.

And the second question is related to -- our customers, they may actually think of to look for some second source for their solutions. But the question is actually, I think they are actually pretty few companies in the market, just like Delta being able to provide total solutions for customers. So how do your customers or how are your customers able to find a second source because given that there are maybe just pretty limited candidates or pretty limited suppliers in the market, being able to provide total solutions?

I think we -- of course, we do always want to provide the total solutions or provide as much as we can to the customers. But still, we already account a big portion of our customers in terms of their orders. If you were the customers, you would definitely think of, okay, I should find a second source. So it's actually pretty nature. And they also want to actually increase the competition among the suppliers. So I think it's definitely -- it's something that is definitely going to happen.

Okay. So my next question is, could you walk us through the motivation and background behind your acquisition of the Japanese company, which you announced yesterday?

Actually, our acquisition of this company is driven by our goal to integrate critical technologies in semiconductor power systems to expand both the depth and the breadth of our offerings in this space. And this Japanese company brings leading RF power expertise with a strong product portfolio and design capabilities.

On the other hand, Delta has strength in global operations, large-scale manufacturing and efficient supply chain management so together, we believe the 2 companies are expected to create strong synergies across both technology and market fronts.

So technically, the companies, this company's RF power and Delta's DC power are highly complementary. Commercially, our combined customer base helps expand product reach and R&D momentum. And the fundamental reason we acquired this company because we believe the RF power is becoming increasingly important in advanced semiconductor process. So that's the reason why we believe that it's actually a good deal for us to make.

So I think -- sorry, Chairman didn't really answer that. What is the estimated sales contribution from the AI-related business next year? So I think it's really hard to say because we actually shared the numbers. I mean we share the percentage sales percentage of the server powers and cooling solutions Q3. So we do hope to see the further increase from the data center-related business. But still, I think there are so many swing factors. So it's really difficult to forecast the percentage.

Okay. So my first question is still related to your CapEx planning -- sorry, capacity planning. So because you actually mentioned in your previous earnings call, you said no matter how high the tariffs are going to be -- are going to be in Thailand, in terms of the overall manufacturing costs, making products in the U.S. is going to be much, much higher than making the products in Thailand in terms of the manufacturing costs. So does that mean that you have actually different thoughts in terms of the U.S. manufacturing?

So I think, as I previously elaborated. I think it's not just about the manufacturing cost in the U.S. is indeed pretty expensive. But also, there are some other factors making the U.S. -- made in U.S. is even more challenging. So for example, the labors are actually one of the key bottlenecks when you think of make the products in the U.S. So there are actually many different factors you need to think of when you consider the capacity planning for your products.

But still, we do continue to expand our capacity in the U.S., but it's not going to run up -- run up very quickly. So I think it's probably going to take maybe 2 years before we see the bigger or meaningful -- more meaningful capacity in the U.S.

So before that, I think we may just brand the factories in the U.S. in order to fulfill the needs of our customers. But still, I don't think the capacity -- the U.S. capacity is going to account for a really big part as a percentage of overall capacity.

So my first question is related to your hydrogen energy. So can you please give us some updates on the hydrogen energy batteries, including your technology deployment, capacity, build-out and the [ TAM ]? And when will you begin to contribute to Delta's revenues and profit?

So Delta's hydrogen energy technologies licensed from the U.K.'s series power and used solid all-size stacks. For example, hydrogen fuel cells can generate electricity, water and heat from oxygen and hydrogen with maybe around 60% efficiency. And with the heat recovery, the overall efficiency can reach up to 85%, which is notably higher than the centralized gas turbine generators at maybe around 40% to 50%.

So because of the energy efficiency in terms of -- is much higher than -- it's much higher than the traditional gas turbine generators. So that is the reason why we acquired this company in the first place. However, as this is a new business, it requires significant resources and time. And within the next 1, 2 years, we do -- we do not expand hydrogen to make a meaningful contribution to Delta's financials.

So the second question is related to your M&A strategy. So I think we actually keep looking for the good targets in the market, either for the new technology or for the market assets. But still, when it comes to the deal, whether or not we are able to close a deal, it's actually subject to many different factors. So for example, I think timing is actually one of the issues or one of the factors because for example, even though we may believe that a company is a really good target to acquire. But if the multiple, the valuation is too high for us. And we are not able to have good return from these investments. So I don't think that we will go on or we will make this deal.

And then sometimes, if the target with really good, for example, technologies, but with very poor financials. So we may also think twice or maybe very likely to decide not to acquire because we don't really want to spend so many years to turn a company around. So there are actually many reasons or manufacturers to consider when it comes to the M&A strategy. But overall, we do keep -- always give an eye in the market, and we do view this M&A as one of our main tools or growth engines to accelerate our growth.

So because everybody is really concerned about the AI. I want to ask the questions. I want to ask a question, which is related to your non-AI business. So can you give us some updates on your Mobility and your Automation business?

I think the Mobility business and Automation business, these 2 businesses have been very challenged this year. With evolving U.S. tariff policies, many manufacturers are in wait-and-see mode on capacity investment. So IA demand remains very weak. However, with lower base growth has recently turned positive, and we hope for further improvement by year-end.

Our Automation division's losses primarily -- were primarily related from the building automation, lacking scale, especially under soft commercial demand in Europe and the U.S., which has widened the losses. And the EV components market also remains depressed.

Outside China, nearly all major OEMs are seeing clear declines in EV sales this year, and many have paused or even stopped new pure EV platform development. So I think having said that, we still remain positive on the long-term EV trend, especially with solid-state battery technology. Once there is a meaningful breakthrough, it could transform the industry. So we will continue to strengthen our technology and operational base.

So what we have been always doing is there are always up cycles and down cycles for different businesses. But for example, in terms of the Automation Business, it's actually a very long-term business. So we do hope to be prepared before the market recover. So that is the whole idea.

So if you don't have any other questions, thank you for joining us today. Thank you.

[Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.]

Hello, everyone. Welcome to our Q2 earnings call. So before we start the Q&A session, we will have our IR, Rodney, to report the numbers of Q2.

So now we are going to review the financial numbers of Q2. Q2 revenue reached TWD 124 billion, marking a record high quarterly results. This represents a 20% yield year growth and a 4% sequential increase. That said, the strong appreciation of NT dollar against the U.S. dollar in Q2 somewhat weighed on the reported growth making it a little bit lower than originally expected.

Gross profit in Q2 was TWD 44 billion, up 25% year-on-year and 17% quarter-on-quarter driven by robust shipments from our data center-related and passive component businesses. GP margin in Q2 was 35.5% versus 34.1% a year ago and 31.8% in Q1. Both the dollar amount and the margins were record highs. Q2 OpEx increased by 14% year-on-year and 7% quarter-on-quarter, with SG&A growing a little bit faster than R&D expenses in Q2. R&D expense to sales was 9.5% compared to 10.2% a year ago and 9.3% in Q1. SG&A spending to sales was 10.9% compared to 11.2% a year ago 10.7% in Q1. The OpEx ratio declined to 20.4% from 21.4% a year ago, but slightly increased from 20.0% in Q1. Thanks to the favorable GP margin, OP margin in Q2 substantially improved to 15.1% from 11.8% in Q1 and 12.7% a year ago, reaching an all-time high. The operating profit in Q2 increased by 42% over the year and 33% over the previous quarter.

So in terms of the segmentation performance, year-over-year, Infrastructure delivered the strongest revenue growth followed by Power Electronics, thanks to the robust data center demand, Mobility, however, continued to struggle due to ongoing market weakness. While automation was impacted by broader macroeconomic headwinds. Quarter-over-quarter, Power Electronics recorded the fastest growth while mobility and infrastructure showed very modest sequential improvement. Automation on the other hand, remained relatively soft.

Earning-wise, except automation, all other segments recorded varying degrees of Q-o-Q improvement. On a year-on-year basis, Infrastructure posted the strongest profit growth, followed by Power Electronics. In contrast, Mobility's 1Q loss amid ongoing market softness, while Automation also came under pressure from the macro headwinds.

Q2 was TWD 900 million versus TWD 1.6 billion in Q1 and TWD 1.9 billion a year ago. The loss in foreign exchange income was driven by the strength of Thai baht over U.S. dollars, while the losses from the investment were mainly related to some minority holdings. In Q2, we had TWD 19.6 billion profit before tax, up 30% year-on-year and 25% quarter-on-quarter. Q2 EBITDA reached TWD 26.8 billion, up 24% year-over-year and 17% quarter-over-quarter, setting another all-time high.

Q2 tax expense was about TWD 4.2 billion. The effective tax rate in Q2 was 21.6%. Net profit after tax was about TWD 13.9 billion, up 40% year-on-year and 36% quarter-over-quarter. So the Q2 EPS was TWD 5.37, achieving a new historical high.

So now we have a look at the accumulated numbers of the first half. So the first half revenue was TWD 242.9 billion, up 25% from a year ago. Gross profit was up 31% year-on-year with margin improving to 33.7% from 32% a year ago. So the OpEx in first half was up 18% year-on-year with SG&A up 18% and R&D up 17%. So thanks to the improved economics of scale (sic) [ economies of scale ], SG&A as a percentage of sales dropped to 10.8% from 11.4%. The OpEx ratio also shrank to 20.2% from 21.5% a year ago. As a result, OP margin in first half was up 59% year-on-year and OP margin improved to 13.5% from 10.5%.

So in terms of the segmentation performance, Infrastructure and Power Electronics delivered strong revenue growth, followed by a moderate pickup in Automation. Mobility, however, continued to face soft demand. On the earnings side, Infrastructure recorded the most notable profit expansion with Power Electronics, and Automation also seeing some improvements. In contrast, mobility swung to a loss amid a continued weak market environment.

So the non-OP income came in at TWD 2.5 billion, down from TWD 3.3 billion a year ago. So in first half, we had TWD 35.2 billion pretax income. So the first half tax expense was around TWD 7.9 billion, representing a 22.3% effective rate. So the net profit after tax was TWD 24.2 billion versus TWD 15.7 billion a year ago. So the EPS in first half was TWD 9.31, up 54% from a year ago.

So first of all, congratulations on the very strong results this quarter. So I have 2 follow-up questions to ask. So first of all, we know that we have a very long-term ambition and long-term plans, I mean, regarding the data center-related businesses. And then we also saw one of your peers, American peers, they just gave the market a pretty positive outlook for the next couple of quarters. So could you please just give us some updates or give us maybe more color on your plans, I mean, regarding the data center-related business or your product road map and so on and so forth.

So first of all, I mean, in response to your question, as I previously or repeatedly, I mean, explained, the data centers, especially those hyperscalers, they continue to invest aggressively into the data center -- AI data center deployment. And it seems to be a pretty clear trend right now. Of course, I mean, going forward, especially if you're looking into the next couple of years, it's still very highly subject to whether this AI deployment can really translate into the profit contributions or the revenue contributions. But still, if you look at the recent results just announced by the U.S. hyperscalers, I think if I remember correctly, I think at least some of those hyperscalers, they actually reported pretty decent results, which can somewhat underpin their continuous investment. So that would be the preliminary view on the AI investments or data center investments by those hyperscaler customers.

So I may have some points to add on. So first of all, I do believe that in terms of the product footprint, we do have a pretty complete spectrum in terms of the product footprint, I mean, to the data center market, including our power products, power solutions and cooling solutions such as the liquid-to-air cooling solutions and also the liquid-to-liquid cooling solutions.

Speaking of the liquid-to-air solutions, we do believe that we actually enjoy pretty high market share in the liquid-to-air liquid cooling market. But speaking of the adoption rate of liquid-to-liquid systems, I think it's something we are not entirely certain about. While it does, I mean, offer better energy efficiency than liquid-to-air and significantly lower CPU cost, but the infrastructure complexity, cost and long deployment time make the adoption challenging. But ultimately, the penetration rate will depend on data center operators' strategic considerations, which remain unclear at this point. In contrast, liquid systems are gaining traction due to their faster deployment.

Okay. So the second question is related to your service revenue. I mean if we look at the service revenue accounts for the total revenues, I mean, for your -- sorry, for a U.S. competitor, say, Vertiv, they actually account for quite a big part of their revenues. So when will we see, I mean, this service revenue is going to be, become a big part to your revenues.

So in terms of the service revenue, I think currently, they accounts for relatively pretty minimal part of our revenues. So I think it's going to take quite some time before we see it become more meaningful, I mean, in terms of the service revenues.

So I also have some points to add on in terms of the service revenues. So as a head of I mean, the M&A activities, I mean, at Delta, so we actually have been looking at -- we are also looking at the opportunities in the market and seeing that if there are any opportunities that we may maybe acquire some of the service, some of the target companies, they offer the services, I mean, to those data center customers.

And then also speaking of the service, I mean, if you look at the data center market, you can actually further separate it into the white space and the gray space. So it's actually more complicated than we think -- than we thought. So I think -- but we actually keep an eye on the market in terms of the potential acquisition opportunities in this area.

So in terms of your question related to how we view the AI outlook in the second half of this year. I think I just checked the data. I mean for the CapEx spending, CapEx plan of Delta -- sorry, of Meta this year, it should be TWD 72 billion. So I think in terms of the outlook for the second half is probably not going to see any significant turbulence. So that would be my point of view.

So my question, how much was the impact of tariffs in Q2? And has it been passed on to customers?

Most customers have agreed to absorb the additional U.S. tariffs, though we cover some upfront, so which was good as operating expenses. However, considering the scale of Delta, the overall impact was not very significant. Can.

Can I assume that your margin expansion -- strong margin expansion, I mean, in Q2 was mainly related to the very fast growth of your AI products?

But actually, if you look at our GP margin in Q2, I think it's just about like 1 percentage point higher than the previous year. So of course, I mean, the overall server power or overall data center-related businesses, I mean, the margins -- those margins are higher than other product lines. But we think, yes, of course, they are higher, but just yes.

So what is your current -- I mean, the current adoption rate of power? Will large-scale adoption only happen after [ Kuber ] platform launches? If not, under what conditions might CSPs adopt earlier?

So as AI servers become increasingly complex, the trend of moving power supplies to a centralized rack is becoming more apparent. We already have some designs, ready with customers. And once they decide to adopt, we can quickly enter mass production. But the [ Kuber ] platform requires not just a stand-alone power but also high-voltage DC stacks due to its extremely high power consumption, which requires higher voltage to manage current heat within controllable limits.

In response to your questions, I mean, in terms of the deployment for liquid-to-liquid solutions or systems, so I think as we just explained, if you want to really adopt or deploy the full liquid-to-liquid solutions, I think you actually -- I mean, for data centers, they actually require -- I mean, they actually have very high requirement in terms of the infrastructure or the facility level. So I think at least, the liquid-to-air solutions are going to be probably the mainstream for a while, considering the reasons we just mentioned.

So for those reasons just explained, so if you really want to adopt the liquid-to-liquid solutions that you may -- I mean, of course, either you build up the new factories or sorry, new data centers or you have to retrofit the existing ones. So considering all those reasons. So we may probably not really going to see that happen in the short run.

In terms of our overall production plans for the -- for our data center-related business, I think considering the cost, I mean the manufacturing cost, and the supply chain, so I think it's more likely that we will continue to produce the components in Asia. Of course, I mean, if you look at the tariff of Thailand, if it remains high, I mean at the 36% level. So we may not continue to expand or to move or shift our production to Delta Thailand -- to Thailand if the tariff remains at this current level.

But in terms of the capacity in the U.S. We already have some capacity in the U.S., and we are also building a new plant. The current expansion plan actually has not been adjusted during tariff change. So our primary purpose for expanding in the U.S. is to be closer to customers and offer better system solutions and services. And however, manufacturing costs in the U.S. are much higher than in Asia and the lack of a complete supply chain makes full component manufacturing very difficult. System assembly is fiscal, but replicating Asia's supply chain is very challenging.

So my question is related to the humanoid robotics. So for example, I mean, Delta is going to -- or maybe has the plan to participate or to penetrate into this market. So when you may consider to -- sorry, where you may consider to produce the components or the products of the humanoid robotics.

I think we do believe that, I mean, the market for this humanoid robotics is enormous in the future. But I think the key in terms of the service robots, it's not really related to maybe the components or the hardware you produce, but it's more related to the software, especially the AI embedded in the robots.

And then also, you have to separate the fields, I mean, the application fields. So whether this robots are for the industrial purpose or the robots are going to -- in the service field, especially to be co-work or co-live with human beings, so in terms of the specs, in terms of the design could be hugely different between or among those different applications.

So in terms of our plans, this robotic market, we are going to actually launch Delta Robotic Research Center in August. So maybe, I mean, just -- maybe that we will have more insights to share after we dig more deeply into this market.

I actually noticed that you showcased your containerized AI data centers during the Computex event this year. Could you please share more details or give us more colors related to in terms of your plans on this containerized AI data centers?

So I think if you look at the current AI data centers are mostly operated or built by those hyperscalers. But in the future, when the colocations or maybe other enterprises, they are also going to build up their own AI data centers. It's just -- I mean, actually the solutions for those customers providing an integrated solution and system to those customers. And for the fast -- especially it actually can be, I mean, fast deployed. So I think -- so the customers, I mean, the target customers are different.

So my question is related to the tariff. So currently, we still don't know how high the Taiwan -- I mean the Taiwan's tariff is going to be. But do you have any scenario plannings if our maybe if our tariff is going to be higher or maybe just on par with or maybe lower than Japanese and Koreans' tariff rate? So do you have any, I mean, -- sorry, scenario plannings for the tariffs?

So first of all, in terms of the tariff, because still, I mean, at this point, we don't know the tariff, what level of the tariff it's going to be for Taiwan. But for now, as we just explained, our customers have absorbed most of the tariffs by themselves. So it actually hasn't really had any significant impact on us. But in terms of the manufacturing footprint, we actually also have a pretty diversified manufacturing footprint, not just -- we don't just have factories in Taiwan, but also elsewhere.

So the tariff is something that we -- totally out of our control. But we, as a company, we do have to -- I mean the only thing that we can do is always to be more agile and more flexible to fill customers' need. So I think actually since 2015, our strategy of being more diversification, not just in terms of the product lines, but also in terms of the production capacity, the geographic locations of our capacity. So as you can see, right now, because at this point, we are -- I mean, having this meeting, we still don't know the tariff level. So it's no way for us to really plan your capacity based on the pretty unclear and uncertain tariff levels.

And also in terms of the capacity, it's not just for this year, for next year, it's actually for the long-term plan. So in terms of our long-term capacity planning, it's not going to really be adjusted by the short-term changes. So what we can actually do is not -- I mean to plan our capacity based on the unclear and uncertain tariff policies. But what we can do is, as I said, be more agile and more flexible and then quickly respond to any crisis. So that is what we can do. So this kind of short-term changes is not going to really impact on the long-term strategic direction and planning.

So my first question is -- because as we know that in Q2, some of your customers actually -- you actually had some pulling orders because of tariffs. So should we still expect the normal seasonality, which means that we will see the high season, the peak season in Q3?

And then so my answer is, I think what I can say is I think the second half -- I think if things go smoothly. I think the second half, I mean, of this year is still going to be better than the first half of the year. But for next year, it's still too early to comment.

So in terms of your question related to with our assembly plan -- I mean final assembly plan in the future. I think as I just -- I mean earlier -- so I think, as I said for the U.S. market, I think it's very likely that we will have the final assembly in the U.S. But still for the components manufacturing -- I mean to produce the components in the U.S. considering the cost and the supply chain is not really feasible -- it's not really a feasible thing to do.

So I have a question related to your capacity planning in Thailand. So considering the current high level tariff to Thailand, so is there any ongoing expansion plan in Thailand?

Yes, we are actually -- I mean, still in the process of building up our new factories in Thailand. So as I said, those are for the long-term development and long-term planning. So is not going to really adjusted by the near-term changes.

So in terms of your AI power -- sorry, AI server powers, can you give us a split between whether they are for the GPUs or for the ASICs?

So sorry, we don't have the split.

Okay. So I have a question regarding the R&D expenses as a percentage of your total revenues. So as we can see that the R&D as a percentage, I mean, as a percentage of your sales was about 5.5% in Q2. So should we expect this, I mean, 9.5% is going to be the new norm in terms of the R&D percentage level going forward?

So I think going forward, we will continue to invest a lot into R&D. It's not just for existing businesses, but also for new businesses. But our plan is more like to maybe to maintain or keep the R&D expense ratio like maybe around 9%. But of course, it's still very much subject to the revenues, the top line growth.

And then I mean, we actually continue to always keep an eye in the market, and then we always try to maybe to get into the new businesses. So we will continue to invest into the new areas. But of course, we have to consider many factors very carefully. For example, whether those new areas or new businesses are going to be related to our core competencies, like they are -- maybe they are the natural extensions of our core businesses. And that would be a very critical criteria when we are assessing the opportunities of the opportunities of the new areas or new business.

So the first question -- I mean, my next question is related to the solar panels. As we can see, recently, the typhoon in Taiwan, I mean, the southern part of Taiwan actually hugely -- has hugely damaged many solar panels in Tainan. So do you think that's going to be a big issue to Delta? And then also, as we can see, I mean, in the U.S., the government seems -- I mean, they are phasing out some of the subsidies for the solar industries. Is that going to be a big issue to Delta?

So I mean, in terms of the damage, the recent damage in Tainan, actually, before we launch any renewable energy plants, I mean, we actually always make sure to conduct very strict due diligence. So I mean, even though that recently we have seen very serious damage, I mean, in the southern part of Taiwan. But to Delta, we actually only had very, very minimal damage in terms of the solar panels set up in our own factories. So we don't actually see that as a very big issue to us.

And then speaking of the second question related to the U.S. government, it seems like they are kind of phasing out some of the subsidy for the renewable energy, especially maybe the solar systems. I think we are not in a position to really comment on the policy. But still, we do believe that for the enterprises there is still pretty high demand for the renewable energies in order to meet their decarbonization target.

So maybe we will have the final questions from the audience.

So my question is still related to the tariff issue. I mean, the Thailand tariff currently is 36%. So I think if the tariff of Thailand does remain 36% is definitely going to be a big impact on the...

[Technical Difficulty]

[Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.]